Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #17055

Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting)

From William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc
Subject Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting)
Date 2016-03-18 01:57 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <ncfnb1$fev$2@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <f23rrcxb3b.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> <ncempu$hfh$1@dont-email.me> <ncenoq$mgt$1@dont-email.me> <ncevnh$msj$1@dont-email.me> <ncf2c8$41o$1@dont-email.me>

Show all headers | View raw

On 2016-03-17, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> On 03/17/2016 12:14 PM, William Unruh wrote:
>> On 2016-03-17, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>> On 03/17/2016 09:42 AM, William Unruh wrote:
>>>> On 2016-03-17, Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>>>>> On 2016-03-17, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <ol5prcxops.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>,
>>>>>> Keith Keller  <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> I know this is true in theory, but I have plugged/unplugged PS/2 devices
>>>>>>> with the power on probably hundreds of times over the past 20 years, and
>>>>>>> have had one device and one port fry in that time (in unrelated separate
>>>>>>> incidents).  If you can power down, great.  If not, the risk is low,
>>>>>>> just be very very sure that you can make alternate arrangements in case
>>>>>>> you do fry something.
>>>>>
>>>>>> So, in conclusion, it seems pretty clear that the previous poster's advice
>>>>>> was much more in the category of "This is what we must tell beginners" than
>>>>>> in the "This is what is actually true" category.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is really true; as I said, the incidence of failures I have seen is
>>>>> definitely nonzero, and the connectors were definitely not made to be
>>>>> hot-plugged.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, there are two questions, one is whether plugging something in/out
>>>> destroys something, or whether the hardware does not report anything to
>>>> the system that something has been plugged in/out. The former is a case
>>>> of completely incompetent engineering if it is the case. Anything that
>>>> is plugged in could be disconnected by accident or even
>>>> connected/disconnected repeatedly by a loose contact, and if it is not
>>>> engineered to take that, it is incompetent engineering. I am of course
>>>> not saying that incompetent engineering does not occur, but it is surely
>>>> not the norm.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> 	In the early stages of home computing you still had to observe
>>> a lot of rules to keep from short-circuiting your connectors.  I wiped
>>> out my 64 kilobytes of memory on the Commodore 64 by not observing
>>> proper protocols as to connecting cables only when cold.
>>>
>>> 	The engineers who designed and built them wrote the cautions
>>> into the manuals and expected(foolishly) that people who valued their
>>> hardware would read the manuals and so forth. By the time I got to
>>> my Commodore Amigas I had learned that lesson well.  I was
>>> happy when USB came along and it was no longer the necessity it
>>> formerly was.
>>>
>>> 	Incompetent engineers or incompetent users is beside the
>>> point. The engineering is improving but the users are much the
>>> same as in the 1980s when I plugged in my C=64.  Of course with
>>> all the net connectivity that "just happens" for the users we
>>> don't have some problems that were "learning opportunities",
>>
>> Users are always incompetent. They have not been trained, have not spent
>> 4 years at university studying how to use their equipment. Engineers
>> have, and should have been trained as to how to design equipment
>> properly. It is like saying that when a doctor botches up and operation,
>> one should expect it, because the use ( the person under the knife)
>> could be incompetent at operations as well.
>>
>> Imagine if cars were that way. The manual says that if you happen to
>> press on the accelerator and the brake at the same time even briefly,
>> the3 engine explodes sending shrapnel all around. Do you thing that
>> manual mention would be considered sufficient to absolve the engineer of
>> fault and blame? And yet we accept behaviour like that from computer
>> people. The whole absolution of blame in the computer area-- harware of
>> software-- is astonishing. They make lots of money so they should not be
>> blamed for anything.
>>
>>>
>>> 	bliss
>>> 	
>>> 	
>
> 	Well they build the toys we are foolish enough to buy
> so it is not money but creativity that buys them a pass.
> 	Users may be incompetent but they can learn. Engineers
> have to produce what the company thinks will sell.

And you think that the customers would reject PS2 ports which would not
burn out if they were hot swapped? Engineers have the ability to design
competently and to enforce that on the company. 

>
> 	bliss

Back to comp.os.linux.misc | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Cursor while booting Helge <w4hw4h.hh@gmail.com> - 2016-03-12 02:54 -0800
  Re: Cursor while booting Andreas Kohlbach <march.10.ankman@spamgourmet.net> - 2016-03-12 15:08 -0500
  Re: Cursor while booting w4hw4h.hh@gmail.com - 2016-03-13 00:26 -0800
    Re: Cursor while booting William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-13 16:26 +0000
    Re: Cursor while booting Andreas Kohlbach <march.10.ankman@spamgourmet.net> - 2016-03-13 17:05 -0400
      Re: Cursor while booting w4hw4h.hh@gmail.com - 2016-03-15 02:48 -0700
        Re: Cursor while booting Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2016-03-15 06:25 -0500
          Re: Cursor while booting gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2016-03-15 13:32 +0000
            Re: Cursor while booting Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2016-03-15 22:12 +0800
            Re: Cursor while booting Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2016-03-15 10:48 -0500
              Re: Cursor while booting gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2016-03-16 09:20 +0000
              Re: Cursor while booting Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2016-03-16 20:15 +0100
                Re: Cursor while booting Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2016-03-16 16:09 -0700
                Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2016-03-17 00:31 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2016-03-17 01:10 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-17 05:11 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2016-03-16 20:54 -0500
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-17 05:13 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2016-03-17 09:37 -0700
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-17 16:42 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2016-03-17 10:02 -0700
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-03-17 20:11 +0100
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-18 01:55 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2016-03-18 03:21 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2016-03-18 12:10 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-18 15:33 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-03-18 20:21 +0100
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-17 19:14 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2016-03-17 13:03 -0700
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-18 01:57 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2016-03-17 19:11 -0700
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2016-03-17 14:30 -0500
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2016-03-17 14:59 -0700
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2016-03-17 18:16 -0500
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2016-03-18 11:07 -0700
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2016-03-18 13:49 -0500
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-18 22:13 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-18 19:55 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2016-03-18 15:13 -0500
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices Andreas Kohlbach <march.10.ankman@spamgourmet.net> - 2016-03-18 14:35 -0400
                Re: Cursor while booting Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2016-03-17 13:31 +0100
                Re: Cursor while booting William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-17 15:04 +0000
                Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2016-03-17 00:33 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-17 05:09 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2016-03-17 14:15 +0100
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2016-03-17 15:05 +0100
      Re: Cursor while booting w4hw4h.hh@gmail.com - 2016-03-15 02:49 -0700
        Re: Cursor while booting w4hw4h.hh@gmail.com - 2016-03-15 02:57 -0700
  Re: Cursor while booting Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2016-03-13 11:36 +0200
    Re: Cursor while booting w4hw4h.hh@gmail.com - 2016-03-15 02:47 -0700
      Re: Cursor while booting William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-15 19:45 +0000
    Re: Cursor while booting w4hw4h.hh@gmail.com - 2016-03-15 02:53 -0700
      Re: Cursor while booting The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2016-03-15 10:02 +0000
  Re: Cursor while booting Chick Tower <c.tower@deadspam.com> - 2016-03-15 16:52 +0000

csiph-web