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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #17051

Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting)

From Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc
Subject Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting)
Date 2016-03-17 13:03 -0700
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <ncf2c8$41o$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <nccttc$ucs$1@news.xmission.com> <f23rrcxb3b.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> <ncempu$hfh$1@dont-email.me> <ncenoq$mgt$1@dont-email.me> <ncevnh$msj$1@dont-email.me>

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On 03/17/2016 12:14 PM, William Unruh wrote:
> On 2016-03-17, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>> On 03/17/2016 09:42 AM, William Unruh wrote:
>>> On 2016-03-17, Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>>>> On 2016-03-17, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
>>>>> In article <ol5prcxops.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>,
>>>>> Keith Keller  <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> I know this is true in theory, but I have plugged/unplugged PS/2 devices
>>>>>> with the power on probably hundreds of times over the past 20 years, and
>>>>>> have had one device and one port fry in that time (in unrelated separate
>>>>>> incidents).  If you can power down, great.  If not, the risk is low,
>>>>>> just be very very sure that you can make alternate arrangements in case
>>>>>> you do fry something.
>>>>
>>>>> So, in conclusion, it seems pretty clear that the previous poster's advice
>>>>> was much more in the category of "This is what we must tell beginners" than
>>>>> in the "This is what is actually true" category.
>>>>
>>>> It is really true; as I said, the incidence of failures I have seen is
>>>> definitely nonzero, and the connectors were definitely not made to be
>>>> hot-plugged.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, there are two questions, one is whether plugging something in/out
>>> destroys something, or whether the hardware does not report anything to
>>> the system that something has been plugged in/out. The former is a case
>>> of completely incompetent engineering if it is the case. Anything that
>>> is plugged in could be disconnected by accident or even
>>> connected/disconnected repeatedly by a loose contact, and if it is not
>>> engineered to take that, it is incompetent engineering. I am of course
>>> not saying that incompetent engineering does not occur, but it is surely
>>> not the norm.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> 	In the early stages of home computing you still had to observe
>> a lot of rules to keep from short-circuiting your connectors.  I wiped
>> out my 64 kilobytes of memory on the Commodore 64 by not observing
>> proper protocols as to connecting cables only when cold.
>>
>> 	The engineers who designed and built them wrote the cautions
>> into the manuals and expected(foolishly) that people who valued their
>> hardware would read the manuals and so forth. By the time I got to
>> my Commodore Amigas I had learned that lesson well.  I was
>> happy when USB came along and it was no longer the necessity it
>> formerly was.
>>
>> 	Incompetent engineers or incompetent users is beside the
>> point. The engineering is improving but the users are much the
>> same as in the 1980s when I plugged in my C=64.  Of course with
>> all the net connectivity that "just happens" for the users we
>> don't have some problems that were "learning opportunities",
>
> Users are always incompetent. They have not been trained, have not spent
> 4 years at university studying how to use their equipment. Engineers
> have, and should have been trained as to how to design equipment
> properly. It is like saying that when a doctor botches up and operation,
> one should expect it, because the use ( the person under the knife)
> could be incompetent at operations as well.
>
> Imagine if cars were that way. The manual says that if you happen to
> press on the accelerator and the brake at the same time even briefly,
> the3 engine explodes sending shrapnel all around. Do you thing that
> manual mention would be considered sufficient to absolve the engineer of
> fault and blame? And yet we accept behaviour like that from computer
> people. The whole absolution of blame in the computer area-- harware of
> software-- is astonishing. They make lots of money so they should not be
> blamed for anything.
>
>>
>> 	bliss
>> 	
>> 	

	Well they build the toys we are foolish enough to buy
so it is not money but creativity that buys them a pass.
	Users may be incompetent but they can learn. Engineers
have to produce what the company thinks will sell.

	bliss

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Thread

Cursor while booting Helge <w4hw4h.hh@gmail.com> - 2016-03-12 02:54 -0800
  Re: Cursor while booting Andreas Kohlbach <march.10.ankman@spamgourmet.net> - 2016-03-12 15:08 -0500
  Re: Cursor while booting w4hw4h.hh@gmail.com - 2016-03-13 00:26 -0800
    Re: Cursor while booting William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-13 16:26 +0000
    Re: Cursor while booting Andreas Kohlbach <march.10.ankman@spamgourmet.net> - 2016-03-13 17:05 -0400
      Re: Cursor while booting w4hw4h.hh@gmail.com - 2016-03-15 02:48 -0700
        Re: Cursor while booting Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2016-03-15 06:25 -0500
          Re: Cursor while booting gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2016-03-15 13:32 +0000
            Re: Cursor while booting Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2016-03-15 22:12 +0800
            Re: Cursor while booting Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2016-03-15 10:48 -0500
              Re: Cursor while booting gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2016-03-16 09:20 +0000
              Re: Cursor while booting Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2016-03-16 20:15 +0100
                Re: Cursor while booting Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2016-03-16 16:09 -0700
                Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2016-03-17 00:31 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2016-03-17 01:10 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-17 05:11 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2016-03-16 20:54 -0500
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-17 05:13 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2016-03-17 09:37 -0700
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-17 16:42 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2016-03-17 10:02 -0700
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-03-17 20:11 +0100
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-18 01:55 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2016-03-18 03:21 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2016-03-18 12:10 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-18 15:33 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-03-18 20:21 +0100
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-17 19:14 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2016-03-17 13:03 -0700
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-18 01:57 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2016-03-17 19:11 -0700
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2016-03-17 14:30 -0500
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2016-03-17 14:59 -0700
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2016-03-17 18:16 -0500
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2016-03-18 11:07 -0700
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2016-03-18 13:49 -0500
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-18 22:13 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-18 19:55 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2016-03-18 15:13 -0500
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices Andreas Kohlbach <march.10.ankman@spamgourmet.net> - 2016-03-18 14:35 -0400
                Re: Cursor while booting Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2016-03-17 13:31 +0100
                Re: Cursor while booting William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-17 15:04 +0000
                Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2016-03-17 00:33 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-17 05:09 +0000
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2016-03-17 14:15 +0100
                Re: Hot-swap-ability of PS/2 devices (Was: Cursor while booting) Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2016-03-17 15:05 +0100
      Re: Cursor while booting w4hw4h.hh@gmail.com - 2016-03-15 02:49 -0700
        Re: Cursor while booting w4hw4h.hh@gmail.com - 2016-03-15 02:57 -0700
  Re: Cursor while booting Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2016-03-13 11:36 +0200
    Re: Cursor while booting w4hw4h.hh@gmail.com - 2016-03-15 02:47 -0700
      Re: Cursor while booting William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-03-15 19:45 +0000
    Re: Cursor while booting w4hw4h.hh@gmail.com - 2016-03-15 02:53 -0700
      Re: Cursor while booting The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2016-03-15 10:02 +0000
  Re: Cursor while booting Chick Tower <c.tower@deadspam.com> - 2016-03-15 16:52 +0000

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