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Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and worse with samsung SSD - Xpost

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  Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and worse with samsung SSD - Xpost BJB <sesteseQUESTOVATOLTO@gmail.ANCHEQUESTOcom> - 2014-05-14 15:05 +0200
    Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and worse with samsung SSD - Xpost Vic RR Garcia <VicGar007@at-gmail.dot.com> - 2014-05-14 14:38 -0400
      Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and worse with samsung SSD BJB <sesteseQUESTOVATOLTO@gmail.ANCHEQUESTOcom> - 2014-05-14 22:12 +0200
        Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and worse with samsung SSD "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2014-05-14 18:21 -0400
          Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and worse with samsung SSD BJB <sesteseQUESTOVATOLTO@gmail.ANCHEQUESTOcom> - 2014-05-15 17:10 +0200
        Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and worse with samsung SSD Vic RR Garcia <VicGar007@at-gmail.dot.com> - 2014-05-15 00:27 -0400
          Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and worse with samsung SSD BJB <sesteseQUESTOVATOLTO@gmail.ANCHEQUESTOcom> - 2014-05-15 23:14 +0200
          Re: HP 650 Notebook - no boot with samsung SSD BJB <sesteseQUESTOVATOLTO@gmail.ANCHEQUESTOcom> - 2014-05-16 12:30 +0200
    Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and worse with samsung SSD - Xpost mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2014-05-14 12:32 -0700
      Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and worse with samsung SSD - Xpost BJB <sesteseQUESTOVATOLTO@gmail.ANCHEQUESTOcom> - 2014-05-14 22:12 +0200
        Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and worse with samsung SSD - Xpost Charlie+ <charlie@xxx.net> - 2014-05-15 07:20 +0100
    Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD - ata i/f damaged - solution is HW repair BJB <sesteseQUESTOVATOLTO@gmail.ANCHEQUESTOcom> - 2014-05-20 13:03 +0200
      Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD - ata i/f damaged - solution   is HW repair Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2014-05-20 16:03 -0700
        Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD - ata i/f damaged - solution   is HW repair BJB <sesteseQUESTOVATOLTO@gmail.ANCHEQUESTOcom> - 2014-05-21 11:57 +0200
    Solved - SATA Cable: Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and samsung SSD BJB <sesteseQUESTOVATOLTO@gmail.ANCHEQUESTOcom> - 2014-07-08 20:00 +0200
      Re: Solved - SATA Cable: Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and   samsung SSD Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2014-07-08 11:08 -0700
        Re: Solved - SATA Cable: Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and   samsung SSD BJB <sesteseQUESTOVATOLTO@gmail.ANCHEQUESTOcom> - 2014-09-21 11:37 +0200
          Re: Solved - SATA Cable: Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and   samsung SSD Paul <nospam@needed.com> - 2014-09-21 14:02 -0400
            Re: Solved - SATA Cable: Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and   samsung SSD "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2014-09-21 21:52 -0500
              Re: Solved - SATA Cable: Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and   samsung SSD Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2014-09-21 20:32 -0700
              Re: Solved - SATA Cable: Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and   samsung SSD Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2014-09-22 20:31 +0000

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#2362 — Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and worse with samsung SSD - Xpost

thanks Tim for your answer!

(i xpost on c.o.l.hardware because i think its a problem many people could have)

.....

 >> i have a Hp 650 NB with Ubuntu linux.

 >> Always on the log (dmesg) i see ata errors, like disconnecting and change of 
speed:

 >> [   13.134830] ata1.00: exception Emask 0x10 SAct 0x1 SErr 0x400100 action 
0x6 frozen
 >> ......

>> Made a disk test = ok.


>> Now i removed its original HDD and tryed a new SSD samsybg 840 EVO, the thing went worse - PC don't start and remains on 'press the ESC key for startup menu'.

>> Searching forums etc. i read that it could be a BIOS issue which does not recognize correctly this new drives.
>> I have on board version F.34 and i see that F.37 is out.
>> The problem now is that replacing bios requires windows installed which i dont have.

>
>> So thw question: HOW TO UPDATE BIOS WITH LINUX INSTALLED?
>>
>> -my goal is to have the HP 650 with SSD on and no ata problems or whatever
>> (obviously :-)
>>
>> -i'm trying to update BIOS hoping it will help but i'm not sure so any
>> experience from users is welcome
>>
>> -i tested the HDD and the SSD on other devices like usb adapter and an older
>> desktop PC and it works with no problem, so the fault must be in the new HP 650.
>>
> <snip> I have not done such from Linux (and part of why I would
> generally keep a Windows on a system if the BIOS hadn't already
> reached it's last version etc) but this might give you some stuff to
> try:

Jes, that is a 'normal' solution, but i don't work with win$ so i have no reason 
other than this e.g. to keep a copy somewhere and HP which sells computers with 
linux on board (which is 100% ok) should not rely on fact that people have some 
win$ spare for maintenance - like here - bios flash....

>
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=318789

Here there is a problem: HP seems deliver only a win$ executable (as part of 
bios update program) and apparently not the bios image. How to get the HP 650 
bios image? Extract from the .exe ?

>
> Failing that, could you stick a spare / old drive in there and put
> Windows on it on there just to upgrade the BIOS?

If everything other fails, i will have to do it.... but... the question is: WILL 
BIOS UPDATE HELP? Do newer bios have support for SDD?


>
> You might be able to do it from a BartPE boot CD but again, I haven't
> yet (and you would need to find / make one if you don't have one
> already).

That is perhaps worth a try - thanks for the hint....




-- 
"Benvenuto nel mondo vero."

Roy Batty

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#2363

On 05/14/14 09:05, BJB wrote:
> thanks Tim for your answer!
>
> (i xpost on c.o.l.hardware because i think its a problem many people could have)
>
> .....
>
>   >> i have a Hp 650 NB with Ubuntu linux.
>
>   >> Always on the log (dmesg) i see ata errors, like disconnecting and change of
> speed:
>
>   >> [   13.134830] ata1.00: exception Emask 0x10 SAct 0x1 SErr 0x400100 action
> 0x6 frozen
>   >> ......
>
>>> Made a disk test = ok.
>
>
>>> Now i removed its original HDD and tryed a new SSD samsybg 840 EVO, the thing went worse - PC don't start and remains on 'press the ESC key for startup menu'.
>
>>> Searching forums etc. i read that it could be a BIOS issue which does not recognize correctly this new drives.
>>> I have on board version F.34 and i see that F.37 is out.
>>> The problem now is that replacing bios requires windows installed which i dont have.
>
>>
>>> So thw question: HOW TO UPDATE BIOS WITH LINUX INSTALLED?
>>>
>>> -my goal is to have the HP 650 with SSD on and no ata problems or whatever
>>> (obviously :-)
>>>
>>> -i'm trying to update BIOS hoping it will help but i'm not sure so any
>>> experience from users is welcome
>>>
>>> -i tested the HDD and the SSD on other devices like usb adapter and an older
>>> desktop PC and it works with no problem, so the fault must be in the new HP 650.
>>>
>> <snip> I have not done such from Linux (and part of why I would
>> generally keep a Windows on a system if the BIOS hadn't already
>> reached it's last version etc) but this might give you some stuff to
>> try:
>
> Jes, that is a 'normal' solution, but i don't work with win$ so i have no reason
> other than this e.g. to keep a copy somewhere and HP which sells computers with
> linux on board (which is 100% ok) should not rely on fact that people have some
> win$ spare for maintenance - like here - bios flash....
>
>>
>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=318789
>
> Here there is a problem: HP seems deliver only a win$ executable (as part of
> bios update program) and apparently not the bios image. How to get the HP 650
> bios image? Extract from the .exe ?
>
>>
>> Failing that, could you stick a spare / old drive in there and put
>> Windows on it on there just to upgrade the BIOS?
>
> If everything other fails, i will have to do it.... but... the question is: WILL
> BIOS UPDATE HELP? Do newer bios have support for SDD?
>
>
>>
>> You might be able to do it from a BartPE boot CD but again, I haven't
>> yet (and you would need to find / make one if you don't have one
>> already).
>
> That is perhaps worth a try - thanks for the hint....

Looks like a miss-configured BIOS, check your settings,
then boot from a Live CD/DVD and format the SSD and install
Linux on it.

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#2365 — Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and worse with samsung SSD

....
>>   >> i have a Hp 650 NB with Ubuntu linux.
>>
>>   >> Always on the log (dmesg) i see ata errors, like disconnecting and change of
>> speed:
>>
>>   >> [   13.134830] ata1.00: exception Emask 0x10 SAct 0x1 SErr 0x400100 action
>> 0x6 frozen
>>   >> ......
>>
>>>> Made a disk test = ok.
>>
>>
>>>> Now i removed its original HDD and tryed a new SSD samsybg 840 EVO, the
>>>> thing went worse - PC don't start and remains on 'press the ESC key for
>>>> startup menu'.
>>
>>>> Searching forums etc. i read that it could be a BIOS issue which does not
>>>> recognize correctly this new drives.
>>>> I have on board version F.34 and i see that F.37 is out.
>>>> The problem now is that replacing bios requires windows installed which i
>>>> dont have.
....
>>>> -my goal is to have the HP 650 with SSD on and no ata problems or whatever
>>>> (obviously :-)
>>>>
>>>> -i'm trying to update BIOS hoping it will help but i'm not sure so any
>>>> experience from users is welcome
>>>>
>>>> -i tested the HDD and the SSD on other devices like usb adapter and an older
>>>> desktop PC and it works with no problem, so the fault must be in the new HP
>>>> 650.
....
>> If everything other fails, i will have to do it.... but... the question is: WILL
>> BIOS UPDATE HELP? Do newer bios have support for SDD?
....
>
> Looks like a miss-configured BIOS, check your settings,
> then boot from a Live CD/DVD and format the SSD and install
> Linux on it.
>

Thanks for answewring.

Yes i thought it too, but looking n. times in all the bios menus and options, 
there is NOTHING that gives me the opportunity to tune or setup ata speed or any 
other hdd or sdd parameter.

The SDD is formatted and has an ext4 fs on it. On other interfaces it just works 
smooth and fast!





-- 
"Benvenuto nel mondo vero."

Roy Batty

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#2369 — Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and worse with samsung SSD

On Wed, 14 May 2014 16:12:14 -0400, BJB <sesteseQUESTOVATOLTO@gmail.anchequestocom> wrote:

> Yes i thought it too, but looking n. times in all the bios menus and options,
> there is NOTHING that gives me the opportunity to tune or setup ata speed or any
> other hdd or sdd parameter.

 From the point of view of the bios, there is no difference between a sata
ssd drive and a regular sata hard drive.

 From the earlier articles in this thread, my best guess is that the boot
loader was not installed properly to the mbr of the drive.

Note that for an ssd drive, it's important to "trim" unused sectors,
either by adding the discard option to each line (for partitions on
the ssd drive) to /etc/fstab (which slows down all deletion of files),
or by setting up a cron job to run the fstrim command on each mountpoint
for filesystems on the ssd drive.

See http://www.ody.ca/~dwhodgins/autofstrim for the script I use on
my ssd drives. Also note that a swap partition does not have a
mountpoint, so adding the discard option to /etc/fstab is the only
way to trim discarded sectors.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

-- 
Change nomail.afraid.org to ody.ca to reply by email.
(nomail.afraid.org has been set up specifically for
use in usenet. Feel free to use it yourself.)

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#2372 — Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and worse with samsung SSD

On 05/15/2014 12:21 AM, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Wed, 14 May 2014 16:12:14 -0400, BJB
> <sesteseQUESTOVATOLTO@gmail.anchequestocom> wrote:
>
>> Yes i thought it too, but looking n. times in all the bios menus and options,
>> there is NOTHING that gives me the opportunity to tune or setup ata speed or any
>> other hdd or sdd parameter.
>
>  From the point of view of the bios, there is no difference between a sata
> ssd drive and a regular sata hard drive.
>
>  From the earlier articles in this thread, my best guess is that the boot
> loader was not installed properly to the mbr of the drive.
>
> Note that for an ssd drive, it's important to "trim" unused sectors,
> either by adding the discard option to each line (for partitions on
> the ssd drive) to /etc/fstab (which slows down all deletion of files),
> or by setting up a cron job to run the fstrim command on each mountpoint
> for filesystems on the ssd drive.

In my fstab i have the line  below,  i think it is correct.
On Swap part. not: should i add 'discard' on swap too?
I think it does not influence the problem i have on boot.....

UUID=xxxxx / ext4 commit=30,noatime,nodiratime,discard,errors=remount-ro 0       1



>
> See http://www.ody.ca/~dwhodgins/autofstrim for the script I use on
> my ssd drives. Also note that a swap partition does not have a
> mountpoint, so adding the discard option to /etc/fstab is the only
> way to trim discarded sectors.
>
> Regards, Dave Hodgins
>


-- 
"Benvenuto nel mondo vero."

Roy Batty

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2370 — Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and worse with samsung SSD

On 05/14/14 16:12, BJB wrote:
> ....
>>>    >> i have a Hp 650 NB with Ubuntu linux.
>>>
>>>    >> Always on the log (dmesg) i see ata errors, like disconnecting and change of
>>> speed:
>>>
>>>    >> [   13.134830] ata1.00: exception Emask 0x10 SAct 0x1 SErr 0x400100 action
>>> 0x6 frozen
>>>    >> ......
>>>
>>>>> Made a disk test = ok.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Now i removed its original HDD and tryed a new SSD samsybg 840 EVO, the
>>>>> thing went worse - PC don't start and remains on 'press the ESC key for
>>>>> startup menu'.
>>>
>>>>> Searching forums etc. i read that it could be a BIOS issue which does not
>>>>> recognize correctly this new drives.
>>>>> I have on board version F.34 and i see that F.37 is out.
>>>>> The problem now is that replacing bios requires windows installed which i
>>>>> dont have.
> ....
>>>>> -my goal is to have the HP 650 with SSD on and no ata problems or whatever
>>>>> (obviously :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> -i'm trying to update BIOS hoping it will help but i'm not sure so any
>>>>> experience from users is welcome
>>>>>
>>>>> -i tested the HDD and the SSD on other devices like usb adapter and an older
>>>>> desktop PC and it works with no problem, so the fault must be in the new HP
>>>>> 650.
> ....
>>> If everything other fails, i will have to do it.... but... the question is: WILL
>>> BIOS UPDATE HELP? Do newer bios have support for SDD?
> ....
>>
>> Looks like a miss-configured BIOS, check your settings,
>> then boot from a Live CD/DVD and format the SSD and install
>> Linux on it.
>>
>
> Thanks for answewring.
>
> Yes i thought it too, but looking n. times in all the bios menus and options,
> there is NOTHING that gives me the opportunity to tune or setup ata speed or any
> other hdd or sdd parameter.
>
> The SDD is formatted and has an ext4 fs on it. On other interfaces it just works
> smooth and fast!

Just realize that your NB bios is UEFI.
Do the OS installed on the SDD is UEFI boot capable ???
Did you installed it in UEFI mode ???
If not, you'll have to change the bios to CMS mode and allow
to boot MBR disk.

You should have, at least an Intel HM70 chipset, it support SATA 3,
so that's OK for any SDD, no need to update BIOS.

When you enter BIOS, the first screen should show your SDD drive,
if no, your drive is not installed correctly or your interface is broken.

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#2373 — Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and worse with samsung SSD

On 05/15/2014 06:27 AM, Vic RR Garcia wrote:
> On 05/14/14 16:12, BJB wrote:
>> ....
>>>>    >> i have a Hp 650 NB with Ubuntu linux.
....
>>>>    >> [   13.134830] ata1.00: exception Emask 0x10 SAct 0x1 SErr 0x400100
>>>> action
>>>> 0x6 frozen
>>>>
>>>>>> Made a disk test = ok.
....
>>>>>> -my goal is to have the HP 650 with SSD on and no ata problems or whatever
>>>>>> (obviously :-)
....
>>>>>> -i tested the HDD and the SSD on other devices like usb adapter and an older
>>>>>> desktop PC and it works with no problem, so the fault must be in the new HP
>>>>>> 650.
>> ....
>>>> If everything other fails, i will have to do it.... but... the question is:
>>>> WILL
>>>> BIOS UPDATE HELP? Do newer bios have support for SDD?
>> ....
>> The SDD is formatted and has an ext4 fs on it. On other interfaces it just works
>> smooth and fast!
>
> Just realize that your NB bios is UEFI.
> Do the OS installed on the SDD is UEFI boot capable ???
> Did you installed it in UEFI mode ???
> If not, you'll have to change the bios to CMS mode and allow
> to boot MBR disk.

That is correct. This is a test i could do - trying in legacy mode.

>
> You should have, at least an Intel HM70 chipset, it support SATA 3,
> so that's OK for any SDD, no need to update BIOS.

How i test if this chipset is present? dmesg? lsmod? lspci?

>
> When you enter BIOS, the first screen should show your SDD drive,
> if no, your drive is not installed correctly or your interface is broken.


-- 
"Benvenuto nel mondo vero."

Roy Batty

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2374 — Re: HP 650 Notebook - no boot with samsung SSD

*snip*
>
> Just realize that your NB bios is UEFI.
> Do the OS installed on the SDD is UEFI boot capable ???
> Did you installed it in UEFI mode ???
> If not, you'll have to change the bios to CMS mode and allow
> to boot MBR disk.
>
> You should have, at least an Intel HM70 chipset, it support SATA 3,
> so that's OK for any SDD, no need to update BIOS.
>
> When you enter BIOS, the first screen should show your SDD drive,
> if no, your drive is not installed correctly or your interface is broken.

I tryed it, the NB is setup in legacy (CMS) mode - hard disk works,SSD not, but 
on another (older) PC it works very well.... on uefi mode

I posted this on HP forum too:

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Hardware/HP-650-Notebook-problems-with-HD-and-worse-with-samsung-SSD/td-p/3892118

Surprisingly nobody has answered..... i would like that some tecnician from HP 
could help... but.... more help from the NG (which i thank)....


-- 
"Benvenuto nel mondo vero."

Roy Batty

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2364

On 5/14/2014 6:05 AM, BJB wrote:
> thanks Tim for your answer!
>
> (i xpost on c.o.l.hardware because i think its a problem many people
> could have)
>
> .....
>
>  >> i have a Hp 650 NB with Ubuntu linux.
>
>  >> Always on the log (dmesg) i see ata errors, like disconnecting and
> change of speed:
>
>  >> [   13.134830] ata1.00: exception Emask 0x10 SAct 0x1 SErr 0x400100
> action 0x6 frozen
>  >> ......
>
>>> Made a disk test = ok.
>
>
>>> Now i removed its original HDD and tryed a new SSD samsybg 840 EVO,
>>> the thing went worse - PC don't start and remains on 'press the ESC
>>> key for startup menu'.
>
>>> Searching forums etc. i read that it could be a BIOS issue which does
>>> not recognize correctly this new drives.
>>> I have on board version F.34 and i see that F.37 is out.
>>> The problem now is that replacing bios requires windows installed
>>> which i dont have.
>
>>
>>> So thw question: HOW TO UPDATE BIOS WITH LINUX INSTALLED?
>>>
>>> -my goal is to have the HP 650 with SSD on and no ata problems or
>>> whatever
>>> (obviously :-)
>>>
>>> -i'm trying to update BIOS hoping it will help but i'm not sure so any
>>> experience from users is welcome
>>>
>>> -i tested the HDD and the SSD on other devices like usb adapter and
>>> an older
>>> desktop PC and it works with no problem, so the fault must be in the
>>> new HP 650.
>>>
>> <snip> I have not done such from Linux (and part of why I would
>> generally keep a Windows on a system if the BIOS hadn't already
>> reached it's last version etc) but this might give you some stuff to
>> try:
>
> Jes, that is a 'normal' solution, but i don't work with win$ so i have
> no reason other than this e.g. to keep a copy somewhere and HP which
> sells computers with linux on board (which is 100% ok) should not rely
> on fact that people have some win$ spare for maintenance - like here -
> bios flash....
>
>>
>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=318789
>
> Here there is a problem: HP seems deliver only a win$ executable (as
> part of bios update program) and apparently not the bios image. How to
> get the HP 650 bios image? Extract from the .exe ?
>
>>
>> Failing that, could you stick a spare / old drive in there and put
>> Windows on it on there just to upgrade the BIOS?
>
> If everything other fails, i will have to do it.... but... the question
> is: WILL BIOS UPDATE HELP? Do newer bios have support for SDD?
>
>
>>
>> You might be able to do it from a BartPE boot CD but again, I haven't
>> yet (and you would need to find / make one if you don't have one
>> already).
>
> That is perhaps worth a try - thanks for the hint....

Borking the bios is not something I'd risk in the name of linux
purity.  Probably could have installed windows, updated the bios,
installed linux in less time than spent on this thread.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2366

.....
 >>  >> i have a Hp 650 NB with Ubuntu linux.
 >>
 >>  >> Always on the log (dmesg) i see ata errors, like disconnecting and
 >> change of speed:
 >>
 >>  >> [   13.134830] ata1.00: exception Emask 0x10 SAct 0x1 SErr 0x400100
 >> action 0x6 frozen
 >>  >> ......
 >>
 >>>> Made a disk test = ok.
 >>
 >>
 >>>> Now i removed its original HDD and tryed a new SSD samsybg 840 EVO,
 >>>> the thing went worse - PC don't start and remains on 'press the ESC
 >>>> key for startup menu'.
 >>
 >>>> Searching forums etc. i read that it could be a BIOS issue which does
 >>>> not recognize correctly this new drives.
 >>>> I have on board version F.34 and i see that F.37 is out.
 >>>> The problem now is that replacing bios requires windows installed
 >>>> which i dont have.
 >>
 >>>
 >>>> So thw question: HOW TO UPDATE BIOS WITH LINUX INSTALLED?
 >>>>
 >>>> -my goal is to have the HP 650 with SSD on and no ata problems or
 >>>> whatever
 >>>> (obviously :-)
 >>>>
 >>>> -i'm trying to update BIOS hoping it will help but i'm not sure so any
 >>>> experience from users is welcome
 >>>>
 >>>> -i tested the HDD and the SSD on other devices like usb adapter and
 >>>> an older
 >>>> desktop PC and it works with no problem, so the fault must be in the
 >>>> new HP 650.

 >>> You might be able to do it from a BartPE boot CD but again, I haven't
 >>> yet (and you would need to find / make one if you don't have one
 >>> already).
 >>
 >> That is perhaps worth a try - thanks for the hint....
 >
 > Borking the bios is not something I'd risk in the name of linux
 > purity.  Probably could have installed windows, updated the bios,
 > installed linux in less time than spent on this thread.
 >


I think i will try this BartPE thing....at the moment i don't have a spare sata 
2,5 HD for this test....

-- 
"Benvenuto nel mondo vero."

Roy Batty

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2371

On Wed, 14 May 2014 22:12:17 +0200, BJB
<sesteseQUESTOVATOLTO@gmail.ANCHEQUESTOcom> wrote as underneath :

>.....
> >>  >> i have a Hp 650 NB with Ubuntu linux.
> >>
> >>  >> Always on the log (dmesg) i see ata errors, like disconnecting and
> >> change of speed:
> >>
> >>  >> [   13.134830] ata1.00: exception Emask 0x10 SAct 0x1 SErr 0x400100
> >> action 0x6 frozen
> >>  >> ......
> >>
> >>>> Made a disk test = ok.
> >>
> >>
> >>>> Now i removed its original HDD and tryed a new SSD samsybg 840 EVO,
> >>>> the thing went worse - PC don't start and remains on 'press the ESC
> >>>> key for startup menu'.
> >>
> >>>> Searching forums etc. i read that it could be a BIOS issue which does
> >>>> not recognize correctly this new drives.
> >>>> I have on board version F.34 and i see that F.37 is out.
> >>>> The problem now is that replacing bios requires windows installed
> >>>> which i dont have.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> So thw question: HOW TO UPDATE BIOS WITH LINUX INSTALLED?
> >>>>
> >>>> -my goal is to have the HP 650 with SSD on and no ata problems or
> >>>> whatever
> >>>> (obviously :-)
> >>>>
> >>>> -i'm trying to update BIOS hoping it will help but i'm not sure so any
> >>>> experience from users is welcome
> >>>>
> >>>> -i tested the HDD and the SSD on other devices like usb adapter and
> >>>> an older
> >>>> desktop PC and it works with no problem, so the fault must be in the
> >>>> new HP 650.
>
> >>> You might be able to do it from a BartPE boot CD but again, I haven't
> >>> yet (and you would need to find / make one if you don't have one
> >>> already).
> >>
> >> That is perhaps worth a try - thanks for the hint....
> >
> > Borking the bios is not something I'd risk in the name of linux
> > purity.  Probably could have installed windows, updated the bios,
> > installed linux in less time than spent on this thread.
> >
>
>
>I think i will try this BartPE thing....at the moment i don't have a spare sata 
>2,5 HD for this test....

I have just been through SSD transfer in a Lenovo laptop, transferring
the OS through an external USB would not work, hung before BIOS load -
tried it twice and the 840 EVO SSD used up 10 reallocations in its SMART
table - I had to transfer IN to the SSD when it was mounted in it's
final bay using an Acronis bootCD - only then would the computer boot up
properly. This was Windows but could be an answer?.... C+

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#2385 — Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD - ata i/f damaged - solution is HW repair

Hi all and thanks to those which posted and helped.

I post the result for those evtl. interested:

- Original HD with Linux on it starts and works, even with some errors in log 
(dmesg) like:
[  115.569415] ata1.00: failed command: READ FPDMA QUEUED
[  115.569419] ata1.00: cmd 60/00:90:b8:dc:70/01:00:1d:00:00/40 tag 18 ncq 131072 in
[  115.569419]          res 40/00:18:10:2f:84/00:00:04:00:00/40 Emask 0x10 (ATA 
bus error)
[  115.569422] ata1.00: status: { DRDY }
[  115.569425] ata1: hard resetting link
[  115.889269] ata1: SATA link up 1.5 Gbps (SStatus 113 SControl 310)
[  115.890878] ata1.00: configured for UDMA/133
[  115.890888] ata1: EH complete

- samsung SSD 840 with same system started a couple of times and then stop, it 
was even not recognized by bios - nothing - nada - rien - nix.

The 2 above mentioned disks was smart tested and fsck'ed - no problems - they 
started well on other PC.

- i found a friend which borrowed me a HD with win7 on it.
No go, win$ even does not start, after the 4 colour logo appears a BSOD - 
"...check hard disk etc.etc." so no possibility to update bios (which requires 
win7!) My compliments HP, you definitely land in my NO BUY list.

Result can only be a HW failure of the ata interface.


Greetings from Florence (Italy).

-- 
"Benvenuto nel mondo vero."

Roy Batty

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#2387 — Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD - ata i/f damaged - solution is HW repair

BJB wrote:

> - Original HD with Linux on it starts and works, even with some errors
> in log (dmesg) like:
> [  115.569415] ata1.00: failed command: READ FPDMA QUEUED
> [  115.569419] ata1.00: cmd 60/00:90:b8:dc:70/01:00:1d:00:00/40 tag 18
> ncq 131072 in
> [  115.569419]          res 40/00:18:10:2f:84/00:00:04:00:00/40 Emask
> 0x10 (ATA bus error)
> [  115.569422] ata1.00: status: { DRDY }
> [  115.569425] ata1: hard resetting link
> [  115.889269] ata1: SATA link up 1.5 Gbps (SStatus 113 SControl 310)
> [  115.890878] ata1.00: configured for UDMA/133
> [  115.890888] ata1: EH complete

HP650 + default hdd => undiagnosed problems w/ linux dmesg

> - samsung SSD 840 with same system started a couple of times and then
> stop, it was even not recognized by bios - nothing - nada - rien - nix.

HP650 + samsung ssd > worse problems

> The 2 above mentioned disks was smart tested and fsck'ed - no problems -
> they started well on other PC.

650 original hdd &/or samsung ssd = operational elsewhere.

> - i found a friend which borrowed me a HD with win7 on it.

(eliminate SSD hardware question strategy)

> No go, win$ even does not start, after the 4 colour logo appears a BSOD
> - "...check hard disk etc.etc." so no possibility to update bios (which
> requires win7!) My compliments HP, you definitely land in my NO BUY list.

temporary distraction about that bios upgrade business; significant; 
HP650 mobo + 3rd hdd (NOT SSD) also doesn't work.

> Result can only be a HW failure of the ata interface.

I would agree that things are looking gloomy (hardware-wise).  mobo/s 
have multiple HDD connections, which has not been addressed here so far.

What happens when you use alternate hdd connection?


-- 
Mike Easter

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#2390 — Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD - ata i/f damaged - solution is HW repair

On 05/21/2014 01:03 AM, Mike Easter wrote:> BJB wrote:
 >
 >> - Original HD with Linux on it starts and works, even with some errors
....
 >
 > HP650 + default hdd => undiagnosed problems w/ linux dmesg
 >
 >> - samsung SSD 840 with same system started a couple of times and then
 >> stop, it was even not recognized by bios - nothing - nada - rien - nix.
 >
 > HP650 + samsung ssd > worse problems
 >
 >> The 2 above mentioned disks was smart tested and fsck'ed - no problems -
 >> they started well on other PC.
 >
 > 650 original hdd &/or samsung ssd = operational elsewhere.
 >
 >> - i found a friend which borrowed me a HD with win7 on it.
 >
 > (eliminate SSD hardware question strategy)
 >
 >> No go, win$ even does not start, after the 4 colour logo appears a BSOD
 >> - "...check hard disk etc.etc." so no possibility to update bios (which
 >> requires win7!) My compliments HP, you definitely land in my NO BUY list.
 >
 > temporary distraction about that bios upgrade business; significant; HP650 mobo
 > + 3rd hdd (NOT SSD) also doesn't work.
 >
 >> Result can only be a HW failure of the ata interface.
 >
 > I would agree that things are looking gloomy (hardware-wise).  mobo/s have
 > multiple HDD connections, which has not been addressed here so far.
 >

Thanks for you resume...

 > What happens when you use alternate hdd connection?

I have not tryed. There is the other one possible, the one of cd-dvd but 
connector is different. (i haven't opened the NB to see if there are other ata 
connectors inside....)

If it is worth (but looking back on 'our' experience, will it help solve?) i 
could buy on ebay an adaptor and try....


-- 
"Benvenuto nel mondo vero."

Roy Batty

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#2516 — Solved - SATA Cable: Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and samsung SSD

Hello groups,

thanks all who posted and helped.

Finally i thought the problem could be the cable - there is a little SATA cable 
inside that connects the M/B with the HD -  and IT WAS.

I found a spare cable on ebay - installed it and now the NB works well.
No more errors.

Have a nice day!



>
>
> .....
>
>  >> i have a Hp 650 NB with Ubuntu linux.
>
>  >> Always on the log (dmesg) i see ata errors, like disconnecting and change of
> speed:
>
>  >> [   13.134830] ata1.00: exception Emask 0x10 SAct 0x1 SErr 0x400100 action
> 0x6 frozen
>  >> ......
>
>>> Made a disk test = ok.
>
>
>>> Now i removed its original HDD and tryed a new SSD samsybg 840 EVO, the thing
>>> went worse - PC don't start and remains on 'press the ESC key for startup menu'.
>
>>> Searching forums etc. i read that it could be a BIOS issue which does not
>>> recognize correctly this new drives.
>>> I have on board version F.34 and i see that F.37 is out.
>>> The problem now is that replacing bios requires windows installed which i
>>> dont have.
>
>>
>>> So thw question: HOW TO UPDATE BIOS WITH LINUX INSTALLED?
>>>
>>> -my goal is to have the HP 650 with SSD on and no ata problems or whatever
>>> (obviously :-)
>>>
>>> -i'm trying to update BIOS hoping it will help but i'm not sure so any
>>> experience from users is welcome
>>>
>>> -i tested the HDD and the SSD on other devices like usb adapter and an older
>>> desktop PC and it works with no problem, so the fault must be in the new HP 650.
>>>
>> <snip> I have not done such from Linux (and part of why I would
>> generally keep a Windows on a system if the BIOS hadn't already
>> reached it's last version etc) but this might give you some stuff to
>> try:
>
> Jes, that is a 'normal' solution, but i don't work with win$ so i have no reason
> other than this e.g. to keep a copy somewhere and HP which sells computers with
> linux on board (which is 100% ok) should not rely on fact that people have some
> win$ spare for maintenance - like here - bios flash....
>
>>
>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=318789
>
> Here there is a problem: HP seems deliver only a win$ executable (as part of
> bios update program) and apparently not the bios image. How to get the HP 650
> bios image? Extract from the .exe ?
>
>>
>> Failing that, could you stick a spare / old drive in there and put
>> Windows on it on there just to upgrade the BIOS?
>
> If everything other fails, i will have to do it.... but... the question is: WILL
> BIOS UPDATE HELP? Do newer bios have support for SDD?
>

>


-- 
"Benvenuto nel mondo vero."

Roy Batty

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#2517 — Re: Solved - SATA Cable: Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and samsung SSD

BJB wrote:
> Finally i thought the problem could be the cable - there is a little
> SATA cable inside that connects the M/B with the HD -  and IT WAS.

I can recall some troubleshooting site which included the cable in the 
hdd's strategy list.  SATA cable connectors are considered 'weak'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#Data_connector  They are more 
susceptible to accidental unplugging and breakage than PATA,



-- 
Mike Easter

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#2534 — Re: Solved - SATA Cable: Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and samsung SSD

On 07/08/2014 08:08 PM, Mike Easter wrote:
> BJB wrote:
>> Finally i thought the problem could be the cable - there is a little
>> SATA cable inside that connects the M/B with the HD -  and IT WAS.
>
> I can recall some troubleshooting site which included the cable in the hdd's
> strategy list.  SATA cable connectors are considered 'weak'.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#Data_connector  They are more
> susceptible to accidental unplugging and breakage than PATA,
>


Yes, and, although the NB works just fine for its price, having choosed a sata 
cable instead of most other NB's to directly solder the HD connector to the MB 
(or other solid PCB) was a bad choice, considered that the cable was 'touched' 2 
or 3 times (removing HDD and replace for a SSD and a couplt of tests).


-- 
"Benvenuto nel mondo vero."

Roy Batty

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#2536 — Re: Solved - SATA Cable: Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and samsung SSD

BJB wrote:
> On 07/08/2014 08:08 PM, Mike Easter wrote:
>> BJB wrote:
>>> Finally i thought the problem could be the cable - there is a little
>>> SATA cable inside that connects the M/B with the HD -  and IT WAS.
>>
>> I can recall some troubleshooting site which included the cable in the 
>> hdd's
>> strategy list.  SATA cable connectors are considered 'weak'.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#Data_connector  They are more
>> susceptible to accidental unplugging and breakage than PATA,
>>
> 
> 
> Yes, and, although the NB works just fine for its price, having choosed 
> a sata cable instead of most other NB's to directly solder the HD 
> connector to the MB (or other solid PCB) was a bad choice, considered 
> that the cable was 'touched' 2 or 3 times (removing HDD and replace for 
> a SSD and a couplt of tests).

On a desktop SATA cable, you're not supposed to bend them until
they kink. If the plastic outer surface has a fold in it, that
indicates you've overstressed it. Sorta like how my garden hose
has permanent kinks in it.

The data connector (seven pin) consists of tx+,tx- and rx+,rx-
plus three ground connections for crosstalk shielding or drain
wire usage. The differential impedance of the pairs is 100 ohms
or so. The wire pairs are arranged as twinax. Pinching the
dielectric compresses it, and causes a change in impedance at
that point. And the electrical signal reflects off it and the
eye diagram is degraded slightly. Perhaps if one conductor
receives more kinking of the dielectric than the other,
it makes the eye diagram a lot worse. No "tutorial" type
articles have investigated (with a Tek scope with optional
SATA eye diagram kit), just how much bending a desktop cable
can take, before it's shot. That would be useful to know.

This picture shows the cross section of the cable, and the
two twinax for transmit and receive. The blue colored material
is the stuff you don't want compressed.

http://www.satacables.com/assets/images/IMG_188353.jpg

In the following, the figure on the left, the blue (signal)
does not touch the red (template). The signal must not "peak"
too much, and touch the top red lines. The signal must not
degrade on rise time too much, or the blue "tilts" on the edges
until it touches the red six-sided figure. The instrument adjusts
the scope gain automatically so the amplitude is normalized, and
then the  degree of distortion determines whether it "violates"
by touching the red portion. The instrument is a digital sampling
scope, and the data pattern is sampled millions of times, to
build up a waveform (many 0 to 1 and 1 to 0 transitions sampled).
Due to intersymbol interference, the signal can be "wiggly", or
due to sampling jitter, a bit "fuzzy". The signal in this case,
likely isn't SATA, even though I asked the image search engine
for a SATA eye diagram.

http://www.embeddedstar.com/postimages/2009/eye-diagram-test.gif

Still not SATA, but higher frequency than the previous one.
A "beautiful" signal. Just because the eye is closed on a
scope trace like this, doesn't mean a transmission system
doesn't work. I've been shown systems with closed eyes at
work, which functioned perfectly. The purpose of these templates,
is so multiple vendors can "play by the rules", and there is
sufficient margin to mix and match products. The templates are
an agreement on when your product is working right.

http://www.cotsjournalonline.com/files/images/289/101175-227_cots1001sd_hyb6_large.jpg

Now, let's look at your cable. It's tiny. It's non-standard. I
don't know how they shrunk the twinax down that much. Cables
like this would have a "bend radius", and this cable has
a couple close-to 90 degree turns in it. Which isn't a good thing.
Considering the difficulty in fabricating a cable this small
in diameter, doing end terminations, it's not a surprise
the cable can go bad.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-650-SATA-Hard-Drive-Connector-Newton-686261-001-/301320409449?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4628189169#ht_4998wt_819

All they need to carry on that cable, is tx+,tx-,rx+,rx-,+5V,GND.
With enough additional grounds to make good transmission carriage
for the diff pairs. So the cable only has to carry six signals
total. It doesn't need a wire per 7 pin and 15 pin contact
sections, for a total of 22 wires. Only 6 wires is enough,
and that's why the cable can be so thin. But the tx and rx
stuff must be controlled impedance and properly meet 100 ohm
differential, with not too much loss at high frequencies.
The smaller the cable gets, the harder that is to do (make
good twinax).

A more clever thing to do, is to use printed circuit board
traces and a board mount SATA connector where the hard drive
is located. That would give excellent electrical characteristics,
but if the laptop or notebook is dropped, the connector on the
hard drive could snap off. My laptop is done that way, and there
is no crappy SATA cabling at all. Just a board mount connector
and the SATA drive slides into it.

    Paul

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#2537 — Re: Solved - SATA Cable: Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and samsung SSD

On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 14:02:49 -0400
Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:

> On a desktop SATA cable, you're not supposed to bend them until
> they kink. If the plastic outer surface has a fold in it, that
> indicates you've overstressed it. Sorta like how my garden hose
> has permanent kinks in it.

Kind of like a squeezed space that electrons have a hard time passing
through?  Yeah, I'm believing that, all right.

Cybe R. Wizard -thinks they should squirt out faster than light
-- 
Nice computers don't go down.
	Larry Niven, Steven Barnes
		"The Barsoom Project"

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#2538 — Re: Solved - SATA Cable: Re: HP 650 Notebook - problems with HDD and samsung SSD

On 09/21/2014 07:52 PM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 14:02:49 -0400
> Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>
>> On a desktop SATA cable, you're not supposed to bend them until
>> they kink. If the plastic outer surface has a fold in it, that
>> indicates you've overstressed it. Sorta like how my garden hose
>> has permanent kinks in it.
>
> Kind of like a squeezed space that electrons have a hard time passing
> through?  Yeah, I'm believing that, all right.
>
> Cybe R. Wizard -thinks they should squirt out faster than light
>

	More like the kink indicates damage to insulation and shielding.
Might ever break a conductor.
	The shielding damage could lead to false or cross signaling.

	bliss

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