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Bad combination of scanner and motherboard?

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  Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? Peter Chant <pete@petezilla.co.uk> - 2013-12-28 12:03 +0000
    Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? philo  <philo@privacy.net> - 2013-12-28 07:07 -0600
      Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? Peter Chant <pete@petezilla.co.uk> - 2013-12-28 15:42 +0000
        Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? philo  <philo@privacy.net> - 2013-12-28 10:18 -0600
          Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-12-28 16:47 +0000
            Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? Peter Chant <pete@petezilla.co.uk> - 2013-12-28 21:22 +0000
              Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? philo  <philo@privacy.net> - 2013-12-28 16:04 -0600
                Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? Peter Chant <pete@petezilla.co.uk> - 2013-12-29 00:29 +0000
              Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? Henrik Carlqvist <Henrik.Carlqvist@deadspam.com> - 2013-12-29 12:15 +0000
                Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? Peter Chant <pete@petezilla.co.uk> - 2013-12-29 12:50 +0000
                Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? Peter Chant <pete@petezilla.co.uk> - 2013-12-29 13:05 +0000
                  Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? Henrik Carlqvist <Henrik.Carlqvist@deadspam.com> - 2013-12-29 17:35 +0000
                    Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? Peter Chant <pete@petezilla.co.uk> - 2013-12-29 21:00 +0000
                      Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? philo  <philo@privacy.net> - 2013-12-29 15:02 -0600
                        Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? Henrik Carlqvist <Henrik.Carlqvist@deadspam.com> - 2013-12-30 00:18 +0000
                          Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? philo  <philo@privacy.net> - 2013-12-29 18:26 -0600
                            Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? Peter Chant <pete@petezilla.co.uk> - 2013-12-30 10:46 +0000
                          Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-12-31 20:09 +0100
                            Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? Peter Chant <pete@petezilla.co.uk> - 2014-01-01 22:46 +0000
                              Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? Henrik Carlqvist <Henrik.Carlqvist@deadspam.com> - 2014-01-02 15:47 +0000
                                Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? Peter Chant <pete@petezilla.co.uk> - 2014-01-03 21:50 +0000
                                  Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? margaretict@googlemail.com - 2014-01-29 02:25 -0800
    Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? Allodoxaphobia <knock_yourself_out@example.net> - 2013-12-28 18:47 +0000
      Re: Bad combination of scanner and motherboard? Peter Chant <pete@petezilla.co.uk> - 2013-12-28 21:23 +0000

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#2147 — Bad combination of scanner and motherboard?

I'm wondering if anyone has any insight on this?

Machine with Gigabyte B85M-HD3 motherboard.  In Mint 15 and Slackware 
14.1 Canon LiDE20 (fully supported by SANE) can be seen by 
sane-find-scanner but rarely by scanimage -L.  Scanning application, 
simple-scan or scanlite may have worked - once.  Cannot repeat. However, 
this scanner works fine on another desktop with another mobo and also my 
EEE900 netbook (Slackware 14.1/Sl 14.0).

Epsom scanner works first time on all machines.



Pete

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#2148

On 12/28/2013 06:03 AM, Peter Chant wrote:
> I'm wondering if anyone has any insight on this?
>
> Machine with Gigabyte B85M-HD3 motherboard.  In Mint 15 and Slackware
> 14.1 Canon LiDE20 (fully supported by SANE) can be seen by
> sane-find-scanner but rarely by scanimage -L.  Scanning application,
> simple-scan or scanlite may have worked - once.  Cannot repeat. However,
> this scanner works fine on another desktop with another mobo and also my
> EEE900 netbook (Slackware 14.1/Sl 14.0).
>
> Epsom scanner works first time on all machines.
>
>
>
> Pete


Possibly a USB problem?

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#2149

On 12/28/2013 01:07 PM, philo  wrote:
>
> Possibly a USB problem?

Sounds like it but that is a bit of a vague estimate of the issue. 
Perhaps I could see how it behaves with a powered usb hub, the scanner 
is a usb powered one.

Pete

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#2150

On 12/28/2013 09:42 AM, Peter Chant wrote:
> On 12/28/2013 01:07 PM, philo  wrote:
>>
>> Possibly a USB problem?
>
> Sounds like it but that is a bit of a vague estimate of the issue.
> Perhaps I could see how it behaves with a powered usb hub, the scanner
> is a usb powered one.
>
> Pete



If your USB port is flaky, a powered hub will not help.

Try another USB device in that port or try the scanner on another port 
and see what happens.

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#2151

On 2013-12-28, philo  <philo@privacy.net> wrote:

> If your USB port is flaky, a powered hub will not help.

Perhaps you have more than one.  My Vaio towers have USB connectors in
the front AND the back.  The front one's were wimpy and fell apart
quickly.  I now use a hub plugged into the back.  I see one advantage
to a hub.  Plugging/unplugging USB connectors into a computer's ports
puts a lotta strain on those port sockets.  Best to plug in one connector
to the 'puter and let the hub suffer the traffic/abuse, as they are
cheap and replaceable.

nb

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#2153

On 12/28/2013 04:47 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2013-12-28, philo  <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> If your USB port is flaky, a powered hub will not help.
>
> Perhaps you have more than one.  My Vaio towers have USB connectors in
> the front AND the back.  The front one's were wimpy and fell apart
> quickly.  I now use a hub plugged into the back.  I see one advantage
> to a hub.  Plugging/unplugging USB connectors into a computer's ports
> puts a lotta strain on those port sockets.  Best to plug in one connector
> to the 'puter and let the hub suffer the traffic/abuse, as they are
> cheap and replaceable.

Apologies to Philo, previous response went to mail and not followup to 
group.

Tried two ports on front and one on  the back.  No luck with the canon. 
  Powered hub was no help.  Yet Epson just worked.  Running 
sane-find-scanner and scanimage as root to ensure permission problems 
don't thwart me.  Perhaps udev is not picking up the scanner - but there 
are rules for this model.  Notice that the relevent entry under 
/dev/bus/???/??? does not have group lp with the problem scanner.


Pete

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#2155

On 12/28/2013 03:22 PM, Peter Chant wrote:
> On 12/28/2013 04:47 PM, notbob wrote:
>> On 2013-12-28, philo  <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>> If your USB port is flaky, a powered hub will not help.
>>
>> Perhaps you have more than one.  My Vaio towers have USB connectors in
>> the front AND the back.  The front one's were wimpy and fell apart
>> quickly.  I now use a hub plugged into the back.  I see one advantage
>> to a hub.  Plugging/unplugging USB connectors into a computer's ports
>> puts a lotta strain on those port sockets.  Best to plug in one connector
>> to the 'puter and let the hub suffer the traffic/abuse, as they are
>> cheap and replaceable.
>
> Apologies to Philo, previous response went to mail and not followup to
> group.

My addy here is just a spam trap
>
> Tried two ports on front and one on  the back.  No luck with the canon.
>   Powered hub was no help.  Yet Epson just worked.  Running
> sane-find-scanner and scanimage as root to ensure permission problems
> don't thwart me.  Perhaps udev is not picking up the scanner - but there
> are rules for this model.  Notice that the relevent entry under
> /dev/bus/???/??? does not have group lp with the problem scanner.
>


If that is the case, try running your scanner application as root
and if it works there...then you need to add the scanner to your user group

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#2156

On 12/28/2013 10:04 PM, philo  wrote:

>> Tried two ports on front and one on  the back.  No luck with the canon.
>>   Powered hub was no help.  Yet Epson just worked.  Running
>> sane-find-scanner and scanimage as root to ensure permission problems
>> don't thwart me.  Perhaps udev is not picking up the scanner - but there
>> are rules for this model.  Notice that the relevent entry under
>> /dev/bus/???/??? does not have group lp with the problem scanner.
>>
>
>
> If that is the case, try running your scanner application as root
> and if it works there...then you need to add the scanner to your user group
>

Yes, have been to no avail.

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#2157

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 21:22:50 +0000, Peter Chant wrote:
> Powered hub was no help.

Do you know the specifications of the HUB? How many amperes is it capable 
of sending out on each port? Do you know how many ameres the canon 
scanner requires?

Maybe it would be possible to use one of those two to one USB cables that 
are used with some USB disks to get twice as much current as you get from 
only one USB port.

My guess is still that the scenner does not get enough current. It should 
not be a software issue if the scanner works with the same distributions 
on another motherboard. It should also not be a broken USB port if 
another epson scanner works in the same port.

I just checked the specifications of the scanner, it is supposed to 
consume no more than 2.5W which equals 0.5A at 5V. This is exactly what a 
USB 2.0 port should be able to deliver. A USB 1.0 port will not be able to
deliver that much current. A flaky motherboard or a motherboard connected 
to a flay PSU might not be able to give 0.5A on a USB 2.0 port.

regards Henrik
-- 
The address in the header is only to prevent spam. My real address is:
hc351(at)poolhem.se Examples of addresses which go to spammers:
root@localhost postmaster@localhost

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#2158

On 12/29/2013 12:15 PM, Henrik Carlqvist wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 21:22:50 +0000, Peter Chant wrote:
>> Powered hub was no help.
>
> Do you know the specifications of the HUB? How many amperes is it capable
> of sending out on each port? Do you know how many ameres the canon
> scanner requires?

I'll have to see if the info is available.

>
> Maybe it would be possible to use one of those two to one USB cables that
> are used with some USB disks to get twice as much current as you get from
> only one USB port.

Hmm, have 2-1 cables for mini and micro USB but not for standard.  I'll 
have to get one.


>
> My guess is still that the scenner does not get enough current. It should
> not be a software issue if the scanner works with the same distributions
> on another motherboard. It should also not be a broken USB port if
> another epson scanner works in the same port.
>
> I just checked the specifications of the scanner, it is supposed to
> consume no more than 2.5W which equals 0.5A at 5V. This is exactly what a
> USB 2.0 port should be able to deliver. A USB 1.0 port will not be able to
> deliver that much current. A flaky motherboard or a motherboard connected
> to a flay PSU might not be able to give 0.5A on a USB 2.0 port.


It's a Gigabyte motherboard, so it ought to at least manage the USB 
spec.  My eee900 managed to drive it.

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#2159

On 12/29/2013 12:15 PM, Henrik Carlqvist wrote:

> I just checked the specifications of the scanner, it is supposed to
> consume no more than 2.5W which equals 0.5A at 5V. This is exactly what a
> USB 2.0 port should be able to deliver. A USB 1.0 port will not be able to
> deliver that much current. A flaky motherboard or a motherboard connected
> to a flay PSU might not be able to give 0.5A on a USB 2.0 port.

The hub should be good for 500mA according to Amazon, where I bought it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plugable-Port-Power-Adapter-Mains/dp/B006Z061HU/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1388321741&sr=8-6&keywords=usb+10+port#productDetails

Plugable USB 2.0 10 Port Hub (with Power Adapter for UK and EU Mains)

When I looked at the reviews this seemed to be the better of the 10 port 
powered hubs.

Pete

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#2160

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:05:29 +0000, Peter Chant wrote:
> The hub should be good for 500mA

And so should your motherboard if it has USB 2.0 ports. Maybe the scanner 
is a little bit broken and takes more than 0.5A even though its 
specification says it should only take 2.5W?

regards Henrik
-- 
The address in the header is only to prevent spam. My real address is:
hc351(at)poolhem.se Examples of addresses which go to spammers:
root@localhost postmaster@localhost

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#2161

On 12/29/2013 05:35 PM, Henrik Carlqvist wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:05:29 +0000, Peter Chant wrote:
>> The hub should be good for 500mA
>
> And so should your motherboard if it has USB 2.0 ports. Maybe the scanner
> is a little bit broken and takes more than 0.5A even though its
> specification says it should only take 2.5W?
>

I've ordered a Y cable so that should sort it if it is on the edge of 
current limiting.  Mobo has a high current mode for iPhone & iPad 
charging.  However, there are no BIOS options and apparently it needs a 
driver to enable it!!!   Can't see that the machine is so marginal on 
power that it is falling over at 500mA from a USB port.

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#2162

On 12/29/2013 03:00 PM, Peter Chant wrote:
> On 12/29/2013 05:35 PM, Henrik Carlqvist wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:05:29 +0000, Peter Chant wrote:
>>> The hub should be good for 500mA
>>
>> And so should your motherboard if it has USB 2.0 ports. Maybe the scanner
>> is a little bit broken and takes more than 0.5A even though its
>> specification says it should only take 2.5W?
>>
>
> I've ordered a Y cable so that should sort it if it is on the edge of
> current limiting.  Mobo has a high current mode for iPhone & iPad
> charging.  However, there are no BIOS options and apparently it needs a
> driver to enable it!!!   Can't see that the machine is so marginal on
> power that it is falling over at 500mA from a USB port.
>



What would be the point, you already have established that a powered hub 
did not do the trick.

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#2163

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 15:02:34 -0600, philo wrote:
> What would be the point, you already have established that a powered hub
> did not do the trick.

The point is that the powered hub by specification only gives 0.5 A which 
is only the same as a USB port on a motherboard which exactly complies 
with the USB 2.0 standard. The idea is that the scanner might require a 
little more than 0.5 A, and if so it might help to get current from more 
than one USB port.

Too bad that he had to order the cable though, I was hoping that he would 
have had one lying around or maybe could borrow one for a quick test.

regards Henrik
-- 
The address in the header is only to prevent spam. My real address is:
hc351(at)poolhem.se Examples of addresses which go to spammers:
root@localhost postmaster@localhost

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#2164

On 12/29/2013 06:18 PM, Henrik Carlqvist wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 15:02:34 -0600, philo wrote:
>> What would be the point, you already have established that a powered hub
>> did not do the trick.
>
> The point is that the powered hub by specification only gives 0.5 A which
> is only the same as a USB port on a motherboard which exactly complies
> with the USB 2.0 standard. The idea is that the scanner might require a
> little more than 0.5 A, and if so it might help to get current from more
> than one USB port.
>
> Too bad that he had to order the cable though, I was hoping that he would
> have had one lying around or maybe could borrow one for a quick test.
>
> regards Henrik
>



Thanks for the info, I guess I did not realize a hub was only 0.5 A

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#2165

On 12/30/2013 12:26 AM, philo  wrote:

>
> Thanks for the info, I guess I did not realize a hub was only 0.5 A

To be honest I've not got high hopes that they Y cable will be the fix. 
  I've eliminated software issues including permissions and apart from a 
possible power issues then my suspicions are that is it some form of 
hardware/firmware incompatibility between this particular scanner and 
the motherboard - or perhaps some strange behavior these chipsets with 
sane and udev.

Since the Y cable is relatively cheap and the only other next things I 
can do are to swap the scanner or motherboard the Y cable seems like a 
sensible first option.



Pete

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#2166

Henrik Carlqvist a écrit :
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 15:02:34 -0600, philo wrote:
>> What would be the point, you already have established that a powered hub
>> did not do the trick.
> 
> The point is that the powered hub by specification only gives 0.5 A which 
> is only the same as a USB port on a motherboard which exactly complies 
> with the USB 2.0 standard.

That's the theory. The real thing is, none of the few USB 2.0 hubs I
have examined did control or limit in any way the current drawn on each
port. So the current was only limited by the power supply.

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#2167

On 12/31/2013 07:09 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> Henrik Carlqvist a écrit :
>> On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 15:02:34 -0600, philo wrote:
>>> What would be the point, you already have established that a powered hub
>>> did not do the trick.
>>
>> The point is that the powered hub by specification only gives 0.5 A which 
>> is only the same as a USB port on a motherboard which exactly complies 
>> with the USB 2.0 standard.
> 
> That's the theory. The real thing is, none of the few USB 2.0 hubs I
> have examined did control or limit in any way the current drawn on each
> port. So the current was only limited by the power supply.
> 
Either way, I've tried a Y cable on the PC to give more power that way -
to no avail.  Did not try it with the hub.  Suspect it is a
firmware/chipset clash somewhere.

Pete

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#2168

On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 22:46:19 +0000, Peter Chant wrote:
> Either way, I've tried a Y cable on the PC to give more power that way -
> to no avail.  Did not try it with the hub.  Suspect it is a
> firmware/chipset clash somewhere.

Too bad. I haven't heard of any such clash before, but I have seen some 
USB 3 ports being capable of totally hanging the machine when used.

Sorry that we were not able to solve your problem.

One final test which will not solve your problem: Does the scanner work 
when connected to the computer where it has previously worked, but with 
the USB hub between the computer and the scanner?

If not, it might instead of a current problem be a voltage problem, but 
that problem cannot be solved with a Y-cable. Maybe it would be possible 
to solve with another hub or another power supply for the hub.

If the scanner still works on the working computer with the hub connected 
it might be a chipset clash as you say, or possibly some software 
difference between the machines which has been overlooked.

regards Henrik
-- 
The address in the header is only to prevent spam. My real address is:
hc351(at)poolhem.se Examples of addresses which go to spammers:
root@localhost postmaster@localhost

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