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Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format?

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  Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format? "Ryahow" <dog@gmail.com> - 2016-12-24 19:46 +0200
    Re: Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2016-12-24 10:33 -0800
    Re: Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-12-26 01:26 +0100
    Re: Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-27 09:14 +0100
      Re: Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-29 16:13 +0000
      Re: Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-12-30 13:45 -0500
        Re: Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2016-12-30 11:02 -0800
          Re: Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-12-30 16:09 -0500
            Re: Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-12-30 22:50 +0000
            Re: Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-12-30 23:02 +0000
            Re: Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format? mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2016-12-31 20:55 +0000
        Re: Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-01-02 10:17 +0100
    Re: Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format? lab.eas@gmail.com - 2017-02-21 08:33 -0800
      Re: Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2017-02-21 09:05 -0800
      GrabIt (was Re: Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format?) ANTant@zimage.com (Ant) - 2017-02-22 16:31 -0600
      Re: Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2017-04-20 01:14 -0300

#3269 — Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format?

Since the device is obviously made for the Windows market,
would it work, if it doesn't have a linux driver.

== TIA



--------------=  Posted using GrabIt  =----------------
------=  Binary Usenet downloading made easy =---------
-=  Get GrabIt for free from http://www.shemes.com/  =-

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#3270

On 12/24/2016 09:46 AM, Ryahow wrote:
> Since the device is obviously made for the Windows market,
> would it work, if it doesn't have a linux driver.
>
> == TIA
>
> --------------=  Posted using GrabIt  =----------------
> ------=  Binary Usenet downloading made easy =---------
> -=  Get GrabIt for free from http://www.shemes.com/  =-
>

	Don't see why not. Every adapter I have used that covered those
bases has worked fine but those are usually integrated into external
drive cases which I filled with drives, IDE a few years back and
SATA more recently.
	
	bliss

-- 
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

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#3271

On 2016-12-24 18:46, Ryahow wrote:
> Since the device is obviously made for the Windows market,
> would it work, if it doesn't have a linux driver.

It depends on the chipset. The driver, if needed, would be in the
kernel, already included. So far, all those things I bought worked fine.

-- 
Cheers,
       Carlos E.R.

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#3272

On 24/12/16 18:46, Ryahow wrote:
> Since the device is obviously made for the Windows market,
> would it work, if it doesn't have a linux driver.
> 

These are "made for Windows" in the same way mice, keyboards, screens,
etc., are "made for Windows".  In other words, they are made to follow
the standards and unless they are designed by complete morons, they work
according to those standards.

Every USB to SATA (and the one USB to IDE) that I have seen work fine on
Linux, including rather old systems.  USB "mass storage class" is
completely standard.

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#3273

David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> These are "made for Windows" in the same way mice, keyboards, screens,
> etc., are "made for Windows".  In other words, they are made to follow
> the standards and unless they are designed by complete morons, they work
> according to those standards.
> 
> Every USB to SATA (and the one USB to IDE) that I have seen work fine on
> Linux, including rather old systems.  USB "mass storage class" is
> completely standard.

It should be mentioned that a lot of things /are/ designed by 'complete
morons', and so don't follow the standard very well.  However Linux is quite
good at dealing with this - it knows about various 'quirks' that particular
devices have and knows how to make them usable even in the parts where they
depart from the spec.

In this specific case, the device working and the format are orthogonal: if
the device works at all, you can read data from the disc, whatever kind of
disc it is.  Once you can read data from the disc, the layer that interprets
the data doesn't care where it came from.

Similarly these adaptors won't read Linux format discs /in Windows/, because
Windows doesn't know how to read Linux format partitions.  Adding a
different connection for the disc won't change that.
(there may be third-party software for reading ext2/3/4 in Windows - I
haven't tried it)

Theo

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#3274

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016, David Brown wrote:

> On 24/12/16 18:46, Ryahow wrote:
>> Since the device is obviously made for the Windows market,
>> would it work, if it doesn't have a linux driver.
>>
>
> These are "made for Windows" in the same way mice, keyboards, screens,
> etc., are "made for Windows".  In other words, they are made to follow
> the standards and unless they are designed by complete morons, they work
> according to those standards.
>
But that can be ambiguous.  I look at things and wonder "are they saying 
it only works with Windows, or that they only will help if you use 
Windows".

In a lot of cases, it's simpler to limit who they will help.  When I got 
an external USR modem in 1996, the package said "compatible with WIndows 
and Mac" which left a certain doubt, though not much since I knew better. 
Many an ISP would talk only in terms of Windows support, when there was 
nothing there that disallowed Linux.


But the real confusion comes because there was a wave of devices that were 
"dumb" and used the main CPU for its smarts, so running on some other 
software was a problem.  ALl those Winmodems and there were even 
Winprinters, they didn't work with Linux without a lot of fuss, and it was 
up to some guy to make the effort to figure things out before things would 
run.

I need a wifi adapter, and it's not obvious from the store's webpage which 
are useable with Linux.  SOme are, but I have to look further, since the 
assumption is that "everyone" runs Windows, and no sense complicating 
things by pointing out which run on Linux.

   Michael

> Every USB to SATA (and the one USB to IDE) that I have seen work fine on
> Linux, including rather old systems.  USB "mass storage class" is
> completely standard.
>
>
>

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#3275

On 12/30/2016 10:45 AM, Michael Black wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Dec 2016, David Brown wrote:
>
>> On 24/12/16 18:46, Ryahow wrote:
>>> Since the device is obviously made for the Windows market,
>>> would it work, if it doesn't have a linux driver.
>>>
>>
>> These are "made for Windows" in the same way mice, keyboards, screens,
>> etc., are "made for Windows".  In other words, they are made to follow
>> the standards and unless they are designed by complete morons, they work
>> according to those standards.
>>
> But that can be ambiguous.  I look at things and wonder "are they saying
> it only works with Windows, or that they only will help if you use
> Windows".
>
> In a lot of cases, it's simpler to limit who they will help.  When I got
> an external USR modem in 1996, the package said "compatible with WIndows
> and Mac" which left a certain doubt, though not much since I knew
> better. Many an ISP would talk only in terms of Windows support, when
> there was nothing there that disallowed Linux.
>
>
> But the real confusion comes because there was a wave of devices that
> were "dumb" and used the main CPU for its smarts, so running on some
> other software was a problem.  ALl those Winmodems and there were even
> Winprinters, they didn't work with Linux without a lot of fuss, and it
> was up to some guy to make the effort to figure things out before things
> would run.
>
> I need a wifi adapter, and it's not obvious from the store's webpage
> which are useable with Linux.  SOme are, but I have to look further,
> since the assumption is that "everyone" runs Windows, and no sense
> complicating things by pointing out which run on Linux.
>
>   Michael
>
>> Every USB to SATA (and the one USB to IDE) that I have seen work fine on
>> Linux, including rather old systems.  USB "mass storage class" is
>> completely standard.
>>
>>
>>
	Well Mr. Black. you seem to have a computer and I
presume(risky business of course) that you have a browser?

	well in my Firefox search window I typed the following
"WiFi Linux compatible adapters"  and I got among other results
the following:
	<https://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-usb-wireless-compatibility-adapter-list.html>

	Or you could enter the model name and number of the
adapter you are considering in the search window and see
what comes up.
	I know these are radical suggestions requiring the
use of fingers and a keyboard but I depend on those fingers
and the keyboard to pick and chose among various items.


  bliss "running fast and light" on PCLinuxOS KDE 2016.03-kernel 4.8.9

-- 
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

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#3276

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

> On 12/30/2016 10:45 AM, Michael Black wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Dec 2016, David Brown wrote:
>> 
>>> On 24/12/16 18:46, Ryahow wrote:
>>>> Since the device is obviously made for the Windows market,
>>>> would it work, if it doesn't have a linux driver.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> These are "made for Windows" in the same way mice, keyboards, screens,
>>> etc., are "made for Windows".  In other words, they are made to follow
>>> the standards and unless they are designed by complete morons, they work
>>> according to those standards.
>>> 
>> But that can be ambiguous.  I look at things and wonder "are they saying
>> it only works with Windows, or that they only will help if you use
>> Windows".
>> 
>> In a lot of cases, it's simpler to limit who they will help.  When I got
>> an external USR modem in 1996, the package said "compatible with WIndows
>> and Mac" which left a certain doubt, though not much since I knew
>> better. Many an ISP would talk only in terms of Windows support, when
>> there was nothing there that disallowed Linux.
>> 
>> 
>> But the real confusion comes because there was a wave of devices that
>> were "dumb" and used the main CPU for its smarts, so running on some
>> other software was a problem.  ALl those Winmodems and there were even
>> Winprinters, they didn't work with Linux without a lot of fuss, and it
>> was up to some guy to make the effort to figure things out before things
>> would run.
>> 
>> I need a wifi adapter, and it's not obvious from the store's webpage
>> which are useable with Linux.  SOme are, but I have to look further,
>> since the assumption is that "everyone" runs Windows, and no sense
>> complicating things by pointing out which run on Linux.
>>
>>   Michael
>> 
>>> Every USB to SATA (and the one USB to IDE) that I have seen work fine on
>>> Linux, including rather old systems.  USB "mass storage class" is
>>> completely standard.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
> 	Well Mr. Black. you seem to have a computer and I
> presume(risky business of course) that you have a browser?
>
> 	well in my Firefox search window I typed the following
> "WiFi Linux compatible adapters"  and I got among other results
> the following:
> 	<https://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-usb-wireless-compatibility-adapter-list.html>
>
> 	Or you could enter the model name and number of the
> adapter you are considering in the search window and see
> what comes up.
> 	I know these are radical suggestions requiring the
> use of fingers and a keyboard but I depend on those fingers
> and the keyboard to pick and chose among various items.
>
And I was talking about how things get labelled, rather than how to find a 
wifi adapter that works.

Like I said, the labelling of things is ambigous, it may mean "Windows 
only" or it may mean "but it will run with other operating systems too".

   Michael

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#3277

Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> writes:
> And I was talking about how things get labelled, rather than how to
> find a wifi adapter that works.
>
> Like I said, the labelling of things is ambigous, it may mean "Windows
> only" or it may mean "but it will run with other operating systems
> too".

In the case of my employer, the compatibility statements we make for our
products start out as product requirements supplied to engineering, but
from the customer point of view, they ultimately reflect the set of
platforms that we test with.

I would expect the situation is similar for many products - the
labelling is essentially a list of what has been tested, and not really
intended to carry either of the above meanings.  Organisationally
speaking the vendor may simply not know whether it works on anything
else.  (Individual engineers probably do know...)

-- 
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#3278

On 2016-12-30, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:

> And I was talking about how things get labelled, rather than how to find a 
> wifi adapter that works.
>
> Like I said, the labelling of things is ambigous, it may mean "Windows 
> only" or it may mean "but it will run with other operating systems too".

Any marketroid worth his salt will be able to word it in such a way that
lusers will assume the former, while a court of law will find the latter
if someone raises a fuss.

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

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#3279

In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1612301608220.2304@darkstar.example.org>,
Michael Black  <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:

>Like I said, the labelling of things is ambigous, it may mean "Windows 
>only" or it may mean "but it will run with other operating systems too".

I find if it says "Works with Windows *and Mac OS*" it's a good sign that
Linux will probably apply too ... you *do* get manufacturers labelling
things -- like a USB keyboard or mouse -- as "Requires: Windows 8 
or higher" which is just lazy, and probably not even true.

If it said "Requires: Nothing, it's a standards compliant piece of 
hardware, just plug it in" then that would help, I guess.
-- 
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk  |    http://www.signal11.org.uk

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#3280

On 30/12/16 19:45, Michael Black wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Dec 2016, David Brown wrote:
> 
>> On 24/12/16 18:46, Ryahow wrote:
>>> Since the device is obviously made for the Windows market,
>>> would it work, if it doesn't have a linux driver.
>>>
>>
>> These are "made for Windows" in the same way mice, keyboards, screens,
>> etc., are "made for Windows".  In other words, they are made to follow
>> the standards and unless they are designed by complete morons, they work
>> according to those standards.
>>
> But that can be ambiguous.  I look at things and wonder "are they saying
> it only works with Windows, or that they only will help if you use
> Windows".

It is often the case that vendors try to limit who they will help, or
claim that guarantees are invalid because of the system the owner uses.
 It is not just Linux they discriminate against - it is anything that is
outside their very limited knowledge.  Vendors have been known to argue
for guarantee invalidation of a computer because the user has installed
a new version of Windows themselves, or refused to help customers with
different peripherals, different language settings, or whatever they
think they can get away with.

> 
> In a lot of cases, it's simpler to limit who they will help.  When I got
> an external USR modem in 1996, the package said "compatible with WIndows
> and Mac" which left a certain doubt, though not much since I knew
> better. Many an ISP would talk only in terms of Windows support, when
> there was nothing there that disallowed Linux.
> 

Fortunately, 1996 is a long time in the past.

> 
> But the real confusion comes because there was a wave of devices that
> were "dumb" and used the main CPU for its smarts, so running on some
> other software was a problem.  ALl those Winmodems and there were even
> Winprinters, they didn't work with Linux without a lot of fuss, and it
> was up to some guy to make the effort to figure things out before things
> would run.
> 
> I need a wifi adapter, and it's not obvious from the store's webpage
> which are useable with Linux.  SOme are, but I have to look further,
> since the assumption is that "everyone" runs Windows, and no sense
> complicating things by pointing out which run on Linux.

I most cases, these things run fine in Linux.  Linux hardware support is
a great deal better than Windows for off-the-shelf hardware, with the
exception of the latest and greatest graphics cards (you probably need
to install the binary blob drivers to get the most out of them).


> 
>   Michael
> 
>> Every USB to SATA (and the one USB to IDE) that I have seen work fine on
>> Linux, including rather old systems.  USB "mass storage class" is
>> completely standard.
>>
>>
>>

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#3286

On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 7:48:38 PM UTC+2, Ryahow wrote:
> Since the device is obviously made for the Windows market,
> would it work, if it doesn't have a linux driver.
> 
> == TIA
> 
> 
> 
> --------------=  Posted using GrabIt  =----------------
> ------=  Binary Usenet downloading made easy =---------
> -=  Get GrabIt for free from http://www.shemes.com/  =-
Grabit is my Windows crap.

Ok: there would be a public <USB to IDE protocol> which any OS
can/would have drivers for.

But at the BIOS-level: the booting facilities caters for IDE, SATA,
... & USB<direct stik>. AFAIK USB is develishly complex:
 it identifies to the port <what kind of device it is>.
And the OS needs to use the matching drivers.

EG. with a 3G dongle:
 it is IDed as a cdrom, which the OS d/ls and runs,
 which then tells the dongle: <here's the 'signal' you said you
 needed, to switch to MODEM-mode>.
And the OS wait's for the dongle to ID as a modem .......

But the <BIOS> or new replacement can't do this.
OTOH: has GRUB got these smart capabilities, because it first d/l's
the drivers?

== WDYS ?

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#3287

On 02/21/2017 08:33 AM, lab.eas@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 7:48:38 PM UTC+2, Ryahow wrote:
>> Since the device is obviously made for the Windows market,
>> would it work, if it doesn't have a linux driver.
>>
>> == TIA
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------=  Posted using GrabIt  =----------------
>> ------=  Binary Usenet downloading made easy =---------
>> -=  Get GrabIt for free from http://www.shemes.com/  =-
> Grabit is my Windows crap.
>
> Ok: there would be a public <USB to IDE protocol> which any OS
> can/would have drivers for.
>
> But at the BIOS-level: the booting facilities caters for IDE, SATA,
> .... & USB<direct stik>. AFAIK USB is develishly complex:
>  it identifies to the port <what kind of device it is>.
> And the OS needs to use the matching drivers.
>
> EG. with a 3G dongle:
>  it is IDed as a cdrom, which the OS d/ls and runs,
>  which then tells the dongle: <here's the 'signal' you said you
>  needed, to switch to MODEM-mode>.
> And the OS wait's for the dongle to ID as a modem .......
>
> But the <BIOS> or new replacement can't do this.
> OTOH: has GRUB got these smart capabilities, because it first d/l's
> the drivers?
>
> == WDYS ?
>
	If your machine has USB ports I think you will find the
drivers already in place, chosen by the OS install.  Linux
is not Windows which seems to need to have drivers for specific
hardware installed.  I say seems because every Windows machine I
have every used seems to have USB drivers installed and was able
to deal with them on a basic level but my machines came with
Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Windows 8.1 which I shoved out
of the way(reduced the space on the hard drive) and installed
Mandriva(2006-2010), Knoppix, PCLinux OS 2012-2017, and
Mageia 4.1 and 5.
	The machines that came with the Windows installation disks required a 
separate disk of drivers for the hardware on the
physical machine.  Linux installed stuff from its install disk
or downloaded the drivers it needed for/during the install.

	I bought a USB/Firewire drive which would work with
Windows or Mac and it turned out to work well with GNU/Linux.
Then after that first drive I bought cases and installed
drive which I bought separately for the purpose or salvaged.

	All this was nothing like as hard as configuring
internal and external SCSI drives on my Amigas.

	bliss "running fast and light" on PCLinuxOS64-2016.03
GNU&Linux 4.9.10-pclos1\

-- 
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

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#3288 — GrabIt (was Re: Would adaptor: USB to IDE & SATA read linux-format?)

lab.eas@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 7:48:38 PM UTC+2, Ryahow wrote:
> > Since the device is obviously made for the Windows market,
> > would it work, if it doesn't have a linux driver.
> > 
> > == TIA
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --------------=  Posted using GrabIt  =----------------
> > ------=  Binary Usenet downloading made easy =---------
> > -=  Get GrabIt for free from http://www.shemes.com/  =-
> Grabit is my Windows crap.

It's decent to me for NZB downloads. What's a better free one for 64-bit 
W7 HPE SP1?
-- 
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follows: restless aggression, territorial conquest, and genocidal 
annihilation of neighboring colonies whenever possible. If ants had 
nuclear weapons, they would probably end the world in a week." --Journey 
to the Ants, page 59. Bert Holldobler & Edward O. Wilson
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
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#3289

lab.eas@gmail.com writes:

> On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 7:48:38 PM UTC+2, Ryahow wrote:
>
>> Since the device is obviously made for the Windows market,
>> would it work, if it doesn't have a linux driver.
>> 
>> == TIA

I may have missed something here and this is an old post, but...

I have an inexpensive widget that provides power for IDE or SATA
drives, has IDE  & SATA connectors/plugs.  It connects to a USB port.

In Linux, it seems to be handled transparently by the usb-storage
module on a 2.4 kernel.  I think that's compiled into the kernel by
default on 2.6 and later.

Has worked on all IDE HDs I've trried it on except a very old (ca. 20
years) one that may have been defunct.  Haven't tried it with SATA.

FWIW,
-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

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