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Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak

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  Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-18 12:33 -0400
    Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-18 16:58 +0000
      Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-18 13:01 -0400
        Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-03-19 05:02 +0000
      Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-03-19 05:00 +0000
        Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-19 09:31 -0400
          Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-20 01:21 +0000
            Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 05:39 +0000
            Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-20 08:07 -0400
            Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-21 02:57 +0000
              Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-21 05:50 -0400
                Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 17:20 +0000
                  Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-21 14:41 -0400
                    Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 03:01 +0000
                      Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-22 08:27 -0400
                        Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 19:48 +0000
                          Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-22 21:07 -0400
                            Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 07:06 +0000
                              Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-23 07:17 -0400
                                Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 19:15 +0000
                                  Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:17 +0000
                                    Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 20:47 +0000
              Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 17:15 +0000
                Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-21 14:40 -0400
          Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 05:37 +0000
    Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-03-19 04:58 +0000
      Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-19 09:21 -0400
        Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-20 01:12 +0000
          Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 05:35 +0000
            Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-20 18:28 +0000
          Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-20 08:03 -0400
            Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-20 18:18 +0000
              Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-20 19:52 -0400
                Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-21 00:06 +0000
                  Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-20 20:24 -0400
        Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 05:34 +0000
          Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-20 08:11 -0400
            Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-20 18:31 +0000
              Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-20 19:53 -0400
            Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 02:30 +0000
              Re: Shocking speed difference, Ubuntu vs. Linux Mint, Snap vs. Flatpak CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-21 05:49 -0400

Page 2 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3  Next page →

#687897

On 2025-03-23, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2025-03-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2025-03-23 3:06 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2025-03-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> On 2025-03-22 3:48 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-03-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-03-21 11:01 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2025-03-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2025-03-21 1:20 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2025-03-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-03-20 10:57 p.m., pothead wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-03-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 09:31:45 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone out there is a fan of Snaps, then there is a chance they might
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not be fans of Ubuntu itself. The idea of switching out the GNU tools
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that work perfectly well in favour of rewritten Rust ones is just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiotic. I would trust the people who produced the GNU tools decades ago
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a lot more than the filthy hippies who will rewrite them in Rust for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> theoretical benefit in regards to memory.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been running Ubuntu as my main machine. I'm not a fan of GNOME but I
>>>>>>>>>>>> can live with it.  I can also like with snap, flatpak, and AppImage.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Brave is the only app that shows up both in the snap and flatpak list.
>>>>>>>>>>>> There isn't a lot of consistency. Firefox and dotnet are snaps, Vim is a
>>>>>>>>>>>> flatpak.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've been running MXLinux for a long time, years in fact, but I tried out
>>>>>>>>>>> the latest version of LinuxMint Cinnamon  and on the same hardware it is
>>>>>>>>>>> much, much faster than MXLinux.
>>>>>>>>>>> Especially with regards to loading browsers and surfing.
>>>>>>>>>>> It was painfully slow under MXLinux. Browser didn't matter.
>>>>>>>>>>> It's not even close.
>>>>>>>>>>> I wasn't a fan of LinuxMint in the past but I sure am now.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's come a long way baby!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm a fan now. It made the pathetic the old hardware feel relatively
>>>>>>>>>> new. Its 5250U processor wasn't even good at the time, but it at least
>>>>>>>>>> feels adequate eight years later.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The 5250U is faster than the 5300U that's in my Dell Latitude E7450 laptop.
>>>>>>>>> But they're pretty closely related. I'm happy with the performance of the
>>>>>>>>> E7450 (I do have 16 GBs of RAM, so that might help.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Mac's got 8GB with no possibility of upgrading it. I can replace the
>>>>>>>> 128GB it came with, I even have the adapter for it, but Mint doesn't
>>>>>>>> even fill up the 128GB. At 25% wear, I think I can run it for a number
>>>>>>>> of years before needing to switch the storage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The MacBook Air that I haven't yet sold (2015 version) is also stuck at 8
>>>>>>> GBs. I can't remember what CPU it uses (it looks like a 5250U like yours) by
>>>>>>> the specs I find online. It's also at 128 GBs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tell yourself that if you were a Mac user, you would have no choice but
>>>>>> to bury that thing next to the family dog because it is officially
>>>>>> useless. Of course, with something like Linux Mint, it is still good in
>>>>>> 2025.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the other hand, I know that some Mac users that are still rocking
>>>>>> their 2012 machines.
>>>>>
>>>>> The MacBook Air definitely slowed down when I upgraded from Catalina to
>>>>> Monterey. (If I had realized how quickly Monterey was going to be EOL'd I
>>>>> wouldn't have bothered.) So I tried a Live USB version of Linux Mint
>>>>> Cinnamon 22.1 last night (after figuring out I needed to use the Option key
>>>>> at boot instead of Command+R). Worked well. If the keyboard wasn't so funky
>>>>> I would probably just install Linux Mint and keep it. Maybe I will anyhow, I
>>>>> don't know. I do admit that the build on the Apple MacBooks is pretty nice.
>>>>> (Although I really got it just to test a few Apple-only applications.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Even though the WiFi card is Broadcom, Linux Mint has no trouble installing
>>>>> a good driver for it — speed was impressive. At least on par with my
>>>>> Latitude E7450 (which is pretty good for the MacBook Air since it has half
>>>>> the RAM — I don't leave a lot open at once anyhow).
>>>>
>>>> Installing Linux Mint on the MacBook Air was trouble free whereas doing
>>>> the same with Ubuntu required me to download the proprietary drivers
>>>> through a Bluetooth connection to my phone. For that reason alone, Mint
>>>> gets my vote. The fact that it is so much faster only adds to that.
>>>>
>>>> I have to admit I'm not a fan of its keyboard either. It got good
>>>> reviews, but I find it fairly mushy.
>>> 
>>> I was thinking more in terms of the Macs key layout (I use the Control key a
>>> lot). The quality of the 2015 MacBook's keyboard is pretty good. But I have
>>> read in the past that the 2017 MacBook Air was a bit thinner than the 2015
>>> (and earlier models) and did have issues with a mushy keyboard.
>>> 
>>> Here's one of many comments on the 2017 keyboard (this one found on
>>> Reddit) about it...
>>> 
>>>     2017 here. Owned mine about a year. Keys stick randomly. Thankfully
>>>     they’ve always come back eventually. Still frustrating as heck. Easily
>>>     the worst keyboard Apple has ever released, both in terms of reliability
>>>     and satisfaction. It’s a total POS to type on. Go find a 2015 and wait
>>>     until Apple realises thinner isn’t always better if it means sacrificing
>>>     quality and functionality.
>>> 
>>> Some of the posters in this particular thread thought it might have
>>> something to do with too much heat.
>>> 
>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/8ippga/how_bad_are_the_keyboard_issues_on_the_2017_model/
>>> 
>>> (Now that I look a little closer I see that these comments were specifically
>>> about the MacBook Pros, not the Airs so, hopefully, they were worse than
>>> your Air.) I do think however, that they 2017 keyboards were not well
>>> received. I think they went to a different keyboard a couple years later.
>>
>> All I can say for sure is that I wouldn't feel comfortable typing on the 
>> 2017 keyboard all day. I gave away a Toshiba laptop from around 2007 
>> which had a stellar keyboard: it had thick keys that traveled as much as 
>> a typical Logitech keyboard would. That type, unfortunately, has been 
>> retired in favour of thin and unreliable. After a decade, the Toshiba 
>> laptop's keyboard was still operational. Mac keyboards, as well as the 
>> one on the laptop I'm using at the moment, can't seemingly go longer 
>> than two or three years.

Invisable type isn't very effective ;)

-- 
End Transmission

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687908

On 2025-03-23, Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> wrote:
> On 2025-03-23, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2025-03-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2025-03-23 3:06 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2025-03-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-03-22 3:48 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-03-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2025-03-21 11:01 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2025-03-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2025-03-21 1:20 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-03-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-03-20 10:57 p.m., pothead wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-03-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 09:31:45 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone out there is a fan of Snaps, then there is a chance they might
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not be fans of Ubuntu itself. The idea of switching out the GNU tools
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that work perfectly well in favour of rewritten Rust ones is just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiotic. I would trust the people who produced the GNU tools decades ago
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a lot more than the filthy hippies who will rewrite them in Rust for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theoretical benefit in regards to memory.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been running Ubuntu as my main machine. I'm not a fan of GNOME but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can live with it.  I can also like with snap, flatpak, and AppImage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brave is the only app that shows up both in the snap and flatpak list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There isn't a lot of consistency. Firefox and dotnet are snaps, Vim is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> flatpak.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been running MXLinux for a long time, years in fact, but I tried out
>>>>>>>>>>>> the latest version of LinuxMint Cinnamon  and on the same hardware it is
>>>>>>>>>>>> much, much faster than MXLinux.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Especially with regards to loading browsers and surfing.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It was painfully slow under MXLinux. Browser didn't matter.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not even close.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wasn't a fan of LinuxMint in the past but I sure am now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's come a long way baby!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a fan now. It made the pathetic the old hardware feel relatively
>>>>>>>>>>> new. Its 5250U processor wasn't even good at the time, but it at least
>>>>>>>>>>> feels adequate eight years later.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The 5250U is faster than the 5300U that's in my Dell Latitude E7450 laptop.
>>>>>>>>>> But they're pretty closely related. I'm happy with the performance of the
>>>>>>>>>> E7450 (I do have 16 GBs of RAM, so that might help.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Mac's got 8GB with no possibility of upgrading it. I can replace the
>>>>>>>>> 128GB it came with, I even have the adapter for it, but Mint doesn't
>>>>>>>>> even fill up the 128GB. At 25% wear, I think I can run it for a number
>>>>>>>>> of years before needing to switch the storage.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The MacBook Air that I haven't yet sold (2015 version) is also stuck at 8
>>>>>>>> GBs. I can't remember what CPU it uses (it looks like a 5250U like yours) by
>>>>>>>> the specs I find online. It's also at 128 GBs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tell yourself that if you were a Mac user, you would have no choice but
>>>>>>> to bury that thing next to the family dog because it is officially
>>>>>>> useless. Of course, with something like Linux Mint, it is still good in
>>>>>>> 2025.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the other hand, I know that some Mac users that are still rocking
>>>>>>> their 2012 machines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The MacBook Air definitely slowed down when I upgraded from Catalina to
>>>>>> Monterey. (If I had realized how quickly Monterey was going to be EOL'd I
>>>>>> wouldn't have bothered.) So I tried a Live USB version of Linux Mint
>>>>>> Cinnamon 22.1 last night (after figuring out I needed to use the Option key
>>>>>> at boot instead of Command+R). Worked well. If the keyboard wasn't so funky
>>>>>> I would probably just install Linux Mint and keep it. Maybe I will anyhow, I
>>>>>> don't know. I do admit that the build on the Apple MacBooks is pretty nice.
>>>>>> (Although I really got it just to test a few Apple-only applications.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even though the WiFi card is Broadcom, Linux Mint has no trouble installing
>>>>>> a good driver for it — speed was impressive. At least on par with my
>>>>>> Latitude E7450 (which is pretty good for the MacBook Air since it has half
>>>>>> the RAM — I don't leave a lot open at once anyhow).
>>>>>
>>>>> Installing Linux Mint on the MacBook Air was trouble free whereas doing
>>>>> the same with Ubuntu required me to download the proprietary drivers
>>>>> through a Bluetooth connection to my phone. For that reason alone, Mint
>>>>> gets my vote. The fact that it is so much faster only adds to that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to admit I'm not a fan of its keyboard either. It got good
>>>>> reviews, but I find it fairly mushy.
>>>> 
>>>> I was thinking more in terms of the Macs key layout (I use the Control key a
>>>> lot). The quality of the 2015 MacBook's keyboard is pretty good. But I have
>>>> read in the past that the 2017 MacBook Air was a bit thinner than the 2015
>>>> (and earlier models) and did have issues with a mushy keyboard.
>>>> 
>>>> Here's one of many comments on the 2017 keyboard (this one found on
>>>> Reddit) about it...
>>>> 
>>>>     2017 here. Owned mine about a year. Keys stick randomly. Thankfully
>>>>     they’ve always come back eventually. Still frustrating as heck. Easily
>>>>     the worst keyboard Apple has ever released, both in terms of reliability
>>>>     and satisfaction. It’s a total POS to type on. Go find a 2015 and wait
>>>>     until Apple realises thinner isn’t always better if it means sacrificing
>>>>     quality and functionality.
>>>> 
>>>> Some of the posters in this particular thread thought it might have
>>>> something to do with too much heat.
>>>> 
>>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/8ippga/how_bad_are_the_keyboard_issues_on_the_2017_model/
>>>> 
>>>> (Now that I look a little closer I see that these comments were specifically
>>>> about the MacBook Pros, not the Airs so, hopefully, they were worse than
>>>> your Air.) I do think however, that they 2017 keyboards were not well
>>>> received. I think they went to a different keyboard a couple years later.
>>>
>>> All I can say for sure is that I wouldn't feel comfortable typing on the 
>>> 2017 keyboard all day. I gave away a Toshiba laptop from around 2007 
>>> which had a stellar keyboard: it had thick keys that traveled as much as 
>>> a typical Logitech keyboard would. That type, unfortunately, has been 
>>> retired in favour of thin and unreliable. After a decade, the Toshiba 
>>> laptop's keyboard was still operational. Mac keyboards, as well as the 
>>> one on the laptop I'm using at the moment, can't seemingly go longer 
>>> than two or three years.
>
> Invisable type isn't very effective ;)

Sorry about that. I DID actually write something, but somehow deleted it 
before posting.

Just something about liking older keyboards better.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687746

On 2025-03-21, pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
> On 2025-03-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 09:31:45 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> If anyone out there is a fan of Snaps, then there is a chance they might
>>> not be fans of Ubuntu itself. The idea of switching out the GNU tools
>>> that work perfectly well in favour of rewritten Rust ones is just
>>> idiotic. I would trust the people who produced the GNU tools decades ago
>>> a lot more than the filthy hippies who will rewrite them in Rust for a
>>> theoretical benefit in regards to memory.
>>
>> I've been running Ubuntu as my main machine. I'm not a fan of GNOME but I 
>> can live with it.  I can also like with snap, flatpak, and AppImage.  
>> Brave is the only app that shows up both in the snap and flatpak list. 
>> There isn't a lot of consistency. Firefox and dotnet are snaps, Vim is a 
>> flatpak. 
>
> I've been running MXLinux for a long time, years in fact, but I tried out
> the latest version of LinuxMint Cinnamon  and on the same hardware it is
> much, much faster than MXLinux.
> Especially with regards to loading browsers and surfing.
> It was painfully slow under MXLinux. Browser didn't matter.
> It's not even close.
> I wasn't a fan of LinuxMint in the past but I sure am now.
>
> It's come a long way baby! 

I've been using Linux Mint for about 17 years, so I don't know when it got 
faster, but it does seem to improve with each update. So, for me, it's been 
incremental improvements over the years. Kind of the opposite of Windows and 
Mac, which get slower with each update on the same hardware.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687749

On 2025-03-21 1:15 p.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2025-03-21, pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>> On 2025-03-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 09:31:45 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> If anyone out there is a fan of Snaps, then there is a chance they might
>>>> not be fans of Ubuntu itself. The idea of switching out the GNU tools
>>>> that work perfectly well in favour of rewritten Rust ones is just
>>>> idiotic. I would trust the people who produced the GNU tools decades ago
>>>> a lot more than the filthy hippies who will rewrite them in Rust for a
>>>> theoretical benefit in regards to memory.
>>>
>>> I've been running Ubuntu as my main machine. I'm not a fan of GNOME but I
>>> can live with it.  I can also like with snap, flatpak, and AppImage.
>>> Brave is the only app that shows up both in the snap and flatpak list.
>>> There isn't a lot of consistency. Firefox and dotnet are snaps, Vim is a
>>> flatpak.
>>
>> I've been running MXLinux for a long time, years in fact, but I tried out
>> the latest version of LinuxMint Cinnamon  and on the same hardware it is
>> much, much faster than MXLinux.
>> Especially with regards to loading browsers and surfing.
>> It was painfully slow under MXLinux. Browser didn't matter.
>> It's not even close.
>> I wasn't a fan of LinuxMint in the past but I sure am now.
>>
>> It's come a long way baby!
> 
> I've been using Linux Mint for about 17 years, so I don't know when it got
> faster, but it does seem to improve with each update. So, for me, it's been
> incremental improvements over the years. Kind of the opposite of Windows and
> Mac, which get slower with each update on the same hardware.

No one can argue the opposite. Linux Mint 22 can run on the same 
hardware as Linux Mint 13. Heck, it will likely run on the hardware than 
ran Linux Mint 6. Meanwhile, try to run 11 on the hardware that ran 7.

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
John 14:6

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#687670

On 2025-03-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2025-03-19 01:00, RonB wrote:
>> On 2025-03-18, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 12:33:50 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> Having discovered that Ubuntu intends to replace the GNU utilities with
>>>> Rust equivalents which may or may not work as well in the coming months,
>>>> I switched over to Linux Mint 22.1 from Ubuntu 24.04 on this old Macbook
>>>> Air 2017. Not only does it bundle the necessary, proprietary wireless
>>>> drivers allowing for a smooth install unlike Ubuntu, but Linux Mint runs
>>>> a _lot_ faster under Cinnamon than Ubuntu's implementation of GNOME. I
>>>> imagine that most of it is due to the use of Snap. For example,
>>>> LibreOffice went from taking about ten seconds to load (on a cold start)
>>>> to one or two.
>>>
>>> I don't have a Macbook or a Cinnamon installation but LibreOffice Writer
>>> comes up in less than 2 seconds on my Ubuntu box. Also, it is not a snap.
>> 
>> I'm definitely not a fan of Snaps. And nothing I've seen about them or
>> experienced with them lately is likely to change my mind.
>
> If anyone out there is a fan of Snaps, then there is a chance they might 
> not be fans of Ubuntu itself. The idea of switching out the GNU tools 
> that work perfectly well in favour of rewritten Rust ones is just 
> idiotic. I would trust the people who produced the GNU tools decades ago 
> a lot more than the filthy hippies who will rewrite them in Rust for a 
> theoretical benefit in regards to memory.

I'm definitely not a fan of Ubuntu, due both to Snaps and Gnome. Mostly 
Snaps now, as I think I could get used to Gnome if I had to. 

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687640

On 2025-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Having discovered that Ubuntu intends to replace the GNU utilities with 
> Rust equivalents which may or may not work as well in the coming months, 
> I switched over to Linux Mint 22.1 from Ubuntu 24.04 on this old Macbook 
> Air 2017. Not only does it bundle the necessary, proprietary wireless 
> drivers allowing for a smooth install unlike Ubuntu, but Linux Mint runs 
> a _lot_ faster under Cinnamon than Ubuntu's implementation of GNOME. I 
> imagine that most of it is due to the use of Snap. For example, 
> LibreOffice went from taking about ten seconds to load (on a cold start) 
> to one or two.
>
> I can only hope that Linux Mint does not follow Ubuntu in removing the 
> GNU utilities in favour of the rewritten Rust ones. They have already 
> shown themselves to be less than 100% compatible, so you can imagine 
> what kind of chaos will result from the change.

I'm finding out that the Firefox Snap can't read files in the non-local user 
directory and Flatpaks can't work with applications outside of their 
directory. I also can't (or don't know how) to customize the Snap version of 
Firefox. I think AppImage is the best of the three. 

There might be another reason Linux Mint is faster. LM defaults to X11 
instead of Wayland. On my (older) machines Wayland leaves artifacts (is 
blotchy in the dark parts of videos, which I guess are artifacts). X11 
doesn't do this. 

Change isn't always for the better.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687646

On 2025-03-19 00:58, RonB wrote:
> On 2025-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> Having discovered that Ubuntu intends to replace the GNU utilities with
>> Rust equivalents which may or may not work as well in the coming months,
>> I switched over to Linux Mint 22.1 from Ubuntu 24.04 on this old Macbook
>> Air 2017. Not only does it bundle the necessary, proprietary wireless
>> drivers allowing for a smooth install unlike Ubuntu, but Linux Mint runs
>> a _lot_ faster under Cinnamon than Ubuntu's implementation of GNOME. I
>> imagine that most of it is due to the use of Snap. For example,
>> LibreOffice went from taking about ten seconds to load (on a cold start)
>> to one or two.
>>
>> I can only hope that Linux Mint does not follow Ubuntu in removing the
>> GNU utilities in favour of the rewritten Rust ones. They have already
>> shown themselves to be less than 100% compatible, so you can imagine
>> what kind of chaos will result from the change.
> 
> I'm finding out that the Firefox Snap can't read files in the non-local user
> directory and Flatpaks can't work with applications outside of their
> directory. I also can't (or don't know how) to customize the Snap version of
> Firefox. I think AppImage is the best of the three.

While AppImage does a stellar job, the reality is that it doesn't have 
the security features of Flatpak or Snap. If I had to choose between the 
three, Flatpak looks like it is far and beyond the best compromise.

> There might be another reason Linux Mint is faster. LM defaults to X11
> instead of Wayland. On my (older) machines Wayland leaves artifacts (is
> blotchy in the dark parts of videos, which I guess are artifacts). X11
> doesn't do this.
> 
> Change isn't always for the better.

Ubuntu 24.04 still uses X11. It seems to default to Wayland after that 
release. The slow performance really does seem to be the result of Snap 
since even the interface itself shouldn't be slower as it is also based 
on GTK3 like Cinnamon.

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
John 14:6

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687665

On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 09:21:09 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> Ubuntu 24.04 still uses X11. It seems to default to Wayland after that
> release. The slow performance really does seem to be the result of Snap
> since even the interface itself shouldn't be slower as it is also based
> on GTK3 like Cinnamon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Wayland_(protocol)#Desktop_Linux_distributions

"Ubuntu shipped with Wayland by default in Ubuntu 17.10 (Artful Aardvark).
[92] However, Ubuntu 18.04 LTS reverted to X.Org by default due to several 
issues.[93][94] Since Ubuntu 21.04, Wayland is the default again."

OS: Ubuntu oracular 24.10 x86_64
Host: SER
Kernel: Linux 6.11.0-19-generic
Uptime: 7 days, 55 mins
Packages: 3007 (dpkg), 35 (snap)
Shell: bash 5.2.32
Display (Acer Technologies 24"): 1920x1080 @ 60Hz [External]
DE: GNOME 47.0
WM: Mutter (Wayland)
WM Theme: Yaru

That's the Ubuntu box. The Fedora 41 box 

DE: KDE Plasma 6.3.3
WM: Kwin (Wayland)
WM Theme: Breeze

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687669

On 2025-03-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 09:21:09 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> Ubuntu 24.04 still uses X11. It seems to default to Wayland after that
>> release. The slow performance really does seem to be the result of Snap
>> since even the interface itself shouldn't be slower as it is also based
>> on GTK3 like Cinnamon.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> Wayland_(protocol)#Desktop_Linux_distributions
>
> "Ubuntu shipped with Wayland by default in Ubuntu 17.10 (Artful Aardvark).
> [92] However, Ubuntu 18.04 LTS reverted to X.Org by default due to several 
> issues.[93][94] Since Ubuntu 21.04, Wayland is the default again."
>
> OS: Ubuntu oracular 24.10 x86_64
> Host: SER
> Kernel: Linux 6.11.0-19-generic
> Uptime: 7 days, 55 mins
> Packages: 3007 (dpkg), 35 (snap)
> Shell: bash 5.2.32
> Display (Acer Technologies 24"): 1920x1080 @ 60Hz [External]
> DE: GNOME 47.0
> WM: Mutter (Wayland)
> WM Theme: Yaru
>
> That's the Ubuntu box. The Fedora 41 box 
>
> DE: KDE Plasma 6.3.3
> WM: Kwin (Wayland)
> WM Theme: Breeze

That's what I thought (when using Ubuntu). 

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687690

On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 05:35:53 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> That's what I thought (when using Ubuntu).

21.04 would default to xorg if it detected Nvidia. You could also select 
Xorg at log in. I bought the Beelink running Ubuntu in September 2022 so I 
would have installed 22.04, the current LTS at the time. It has AMD Radeon 
graphics and used Wayland by default. 

That was also the version when Firefox became a snap.  

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687675

On 2025-03-19 21:12, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 09:21:09 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
> 
>> Ubuntu 24.04 still uses X11. It seems to default to Wayland after that
>> release. The slow performance really does seem to be the result of Snap
>> since even the interface itself shouldn't be slower as it is also based
>> on GTK3 like Cinnamon.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> Wayland_(protocol)#Desktop_Linux_distributions
> 
> "Ubuntu shipped with Wayland by default in Ubuntu 17.10 (Artful Aardvark).
> [92] However, Ubuntu 18.04 LTS reverted to X.Org by default due to several
> issues.[93][94] Since Ubuntu 21.04, Wayland is the default again."
> 
> OS: Ubuntu oracular 24.10 x86_64
> Host: SER
> Kernel: Linux 6.11.0-19-generic
> Uptime: 7 days, 55 mins
> Packages: 3007 (dpkg), 35 (snap)
> Shell: bash 5.2.32
> Display (Acer Technologies 24"): 1920x1080 @ 60Hz [External]
> DE: GNOME 47.0
> WM: Mutter (Wayland)
> WM Theme: Yaru
> 
> That's the Ubuntu box. The Fedora 41 box
> 
> DE: KDE Plasma 6.3.3
> WM: Kwin (Wayland)
> WM Theme: Breeze

That's nice. However, I actually checked which window manager it was 
using on several occasions, and it clearly said X11. Even the reviews of 
24.04 say that it is using X11 by default, and that it would default to 
Wayland in 24.10.

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
John 14:6

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687688

On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 08:03:35 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> That's nice. However, I actually checked which window manager it was
> using on several occasions, and it clearly said X11. Even the reviews of
> 24.04 say that it is using X11 by default, and that it would default to
> Wayland in 24.10.

https://www.ghacks.net/2022/04/21/ubuntu-22-04-lts-with-gnome-42-and-
wayland-as-the-default/

"Wayland is the default display server on Ubuntu 22.04 LTS, even for 
devices with Nvidia video cards. Previously, devices with Nvidia cards 
fell back to using Xorg because of incompatibilities between Nvidia 
drivers and Wayland."

You're special.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687710

On 2025-03-20 2:18 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 08:03:35 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
> 
>> That's nice. However, I actually checked which window manager it was
>> using on several occasions, and it clearly said X11. Even the reviews of
>> 24.04 say that it is using X11 by default, and that it would default to
>> Wayland in 24.10.
> 
> https://www.ghacks.net/2022/04/21/ubuntu-22-04-lts-with-gnome-42-and-
> wayland-as-the-default/
> 
> "Wayland is the default display server on Ubuntu 22.04 LTS, even for
> devices with Nvidia video cards. Previously, devices with Nvidia cards
> fell back to using Xorg because of incompatibilities between Nvidia
> drivers and Wayland."
> 
> You're special.

I'm tempted to install it again on the damned MacBook Air 2017 just to 
take a screenshot and show you that it said very clearly that it was 
running on X11. Maybe Wayland doesn't support the Intel HD 6000 series? 
Even the trackpad gestures I would usually rely on which work on Wayland 
didn't work on Ubuntu. Besides, it was 24.04, not 22.04.

I just did a search and people were apparently reporting issues with 
their Intel graphics and Wayland. Perhaps Canonical forced X11 for those 
machines.

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
John 14:6

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687712

On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 19:52:00 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> I'm tempted to install it again on the damned MacBook Air 2017 just to
> take a screenshot and show you that it said very clearly that it was
> running on X11. Maybe Wayland doesn't support the Intel HD 6000 series?
> Even the trackpad gestures I would usually rely on which work on Wayland
> didn't work on Ubuntu. Besides, it was 24.04, not 22.04.

It's entirely possible a 8 year old Macbook can't handle Wayland. 

> I just did a search and people were apparently reporting issues with
> their Intel graphics and Wayland. Perhaps Canonical forced X11 for those
> machines.

We're really getting into special cases now but my Fedora box is Wayland 
and it runs fine on an Intel Xeon E3 GPU, but then its KDE and not GNOME. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687714

On 2025-03-20 8:06 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 19:52:00 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
> 
>> I'm tempted to install it again on the damned MacBook Air 2017 just to
>> take a screenshot and show you that it said very clearly that it was
>> running on X11. Maybe Wayland doesn't support the Intel HD 6000 series?
>> Even the trackpad gestures I would usually rely on which work on Wayland
>> didn't work on Ubuntu. Besides, it was 24.04, not 22.04.
> 
> It's entirely possible a 8 year old Macbook can't handle Wayland.

I actually have and had a lot of trouble believing that. However, the 
experience was already slow enough on X11 that I didn't bother to even 
force Wayland to try. Nevertheless, the computer is rather snappy with 
Linux Mint which uses X11 by default.

>> I just did a search and people were apparently reporting issues with
>> their Intel graphics and Wayland. Perhaps Canonical forced X11 for those
>> machines.
> 
> We're really getting into special cases now but my Fedora box is Wayland
> and it runs fine on an Intel Xeon E3 GPU, but then its KDE and not GNOME.

The only benefit of Wayland for me would have been the trackpad 
gestures. Other than that, I don't really notice anything different 
between one and the other except for the fact that discrete things 
suddenly don't work once Wayland is enabled. I know it's the future and 
everything, but I can't help but think that it still isn't ready.

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
John 14:6

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687668

On 2025-03-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2025-03-19 00:58, RonB wrote:
>> On 2025-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> Having discovered that Ubuntu intends to replace the GNU utilities with
>>> Rust equivalents which may or may not work as well in the coming months,
>>> I switched over to Linux Mint 22.1 from Ubuntu 24.04 on this old Macbook
>>> Air 2017. Not only does it bundle the necessary, proprietary wireless
>>> drivers allowing for a smooth install unlike Ubuntu, but Linux Mint runs
>>> a _lot_ faster under Cinnamon than Ubuntu's implementation of GNOME. I
>>> imagine that most of it is due to the use of Snap. For example,
>>> LibreOffice went from taking about ten seconds to load (on a cold start)
>>> to one or two.
>>>
>>> I can only hope that Linux Mint does not follow Ubuntu in removing the
>>> GNU utilities in favour of the rewritten Rust ones. They have already
>>> shown themselves to be less than 100% compatible, so you can imagine
>>> what kind of chaos will result from the change.
>> 
>> I'm finding out that the Firefox Snap can't read files in the non-local user
>> directory and Flatpaks can't work with applications outside of their
>> directory. I also can't (or don't know how) to customize the Snap version of
>> Firefox. I think AppImage is the best of the three.
>
> While AppImage does a stellar job, the reality is that it doesn't have 
> the security features of Flatpak or Snap. If I had to choose between the 
> three, Flatpak looks like it is far and beyond the best compromise.

Okay, I don't know enough about it to contradict you. It's probably Snap and 
Flatpaks security features that get in the way of applications working 
properly. So another reason not to like Snap. I'll reserve judgment on 
Flatpak because I found a workaround for Trelby's PDF issue and, I'm 
guessing, the person who made the Trelby Flatpak probably left something 
out.

At any rate I "found" (someone told me at the GitHub site) that you can give 
Trelby access to the /tmp directory and it will allow you to use the default 
PDF application. So it's a workaround, but it works.

Just type (or copy and paste) into the terminal...

flatpak override --user --filesystem=/tmp org.trelby.Trelby

I still don't know how to customize a Snap version of Firefox, however. And 
I still don't like that Snaps appear as "partitions" when you run a df 
command. I've removed all Snaps from my computers. 

>> There might be another reason Linux Mint is faster. LM defaults to X11
>> instead of Wayland. On my (older) machines Wayland leaves artifacts (is
>> blotchy in the dark parts of videos, which I guess are artifacts). X11
>> doesn't do this.
>> 
>> Change isn't always for the better.
>
> Ubuntu 24.04 still uses X11. It seems to default to Wayland after that 
> release. The slow performance really does seem to be the result of Snap 
> since even the interface itself shouldn't be slower as it is also based 
> on GTK3 like Cinnamon.

I'm pretty sure Ubuntu 24.04 defaults to Wayland. But I may be wrong about 
that. I think I had to disable Wayland the last time I tried a desktop 
version of Ubuntu.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687678

On 2025-03-20 01:34, RonB wrote:
> On 2025-03-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2025-03-19 00:58, RonB wrote:
>>> On 2025-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> Having discovered that Ubuntu intends to replace the GNU utilities with
>>>> Rust equivalents which may or may not work as well in the coming months,
>>>> I switched over to Linux Mint 22.1 from Ubuntu 24.04 on this old Macbook
>>>> Air 2017. Not only does it bundle the necessary, proprietary wireless
>>>> drivers allowing for a smooth install unlike Ubuntu, but Linux Mint runs
>>>> a _lot_ faster under Cinnamon than Ubuntu's implementation of GNOME. I
>>>> imagine that most of it is due to the use of Snap. For example,
>>>> LibreOffice went from taking about ten seconds to load (on a cold start)
>>>> to one or two.
>>>>
>>>> I can only hope that Linux Mint does not follow Ubuntu in removing the
>>>> GNU utilities in favour of the rewritten Rust ones. They have already
>>>> shown themselves to be less than 100% compatible, so you can imagine
>>>> what kind of chaos will result from the change.
>>>
>>> I'm finding out that the Firefox Snap can't read files in the non-local user
>>> directory and Flatpaks can't work with applications outside of their
>>> directory. I also can't (or don't know how) to customize the Snap version of
>>> Firefox. I think AppImage is the best of the three.
>>
>> While AppImage does a stellar job, the reality is that it doesn't have
>> the security features of Flatpak or Snap. If I had to choose between the
>> three, Flatpak looks like it is far and beyond the best compromise.
> 
> Okay, I don't know enough about it to contradict you. It's probably Snap and
> Flatpaks security features that get in the way of applications working
> properly. So another reason not to like Snap. I'll reserve judgment on
> Flatpak because I found a workaround for Trelby's PDF issue and, I'm
> guessing, the person who made the Trelby Flatpak probably left something
> out.
> 
> At any rate I "found" (someone told me at the GitHub site) that you can give
> Trelby access to the /tmp directory and it will allow you to use the default
> PDF application. So it's a workaround, but it works.
> 
> Just type (or copy and paste) into the terminal...
> 
> flatpak override --user --filesystem=/tmp org.trelby.Trelby
> 
> I still don't know how to customize a Snap version of Firefox, however. And
> I still don't like that Snaps appear as "partitions" when you run a df
> command. I've removed all Snaps from my computers.
> 
>>> There might be another reason Linux Mint is faster. LM defaults to X11
>>> instead of Wayland. On my (older) machines Wayland leaves artifacts (is
>>> blotchy in the dark parts of videos, which I guess are artifacts). X11
>>> doesn't do this.
>>>
>>> Change isn't always for the better.
>>
>> Ubuntu 24.04 still uses X11. It seems to default to Wayland after that
>> release. The slow performance really does seem to be the result of Snap
>> since even the interface itself shouldn't be slower as it is also based
>> on GTK3 like Cinnamon.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Ubuntu 24.04 defaults to Wayland. But I may be wrong about
> that. I think I had to disable Wayland the last time I tried a desktop
> version of Ubuntu.

Notice the headline for this article: 
<https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/05/ubuntu-24-10-wayland-nvidia>

It is trivial to check which window manager you use in Ubuntu. Every 
time I checked, it said X11.

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
John 14:6

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687691

On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 08:11:30 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:


> Notice the headline for this article:
> <https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/05/ubuntu-24-10-wayland-nvidia>
> 
> It is trivial to check which window manager you use in Ubuntu. Every
> time I checked, it said X11.

You made the assumption that because you use Nvidia it your setup applies 
to all Ubuntu installations. It doesn't. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687711

On 2025-03-20 2:31 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 08:11:30 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
> 
> 
>> Notice the headline for this article:
>> <https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/05/ubuntu-24-10-wayland-nvidia>
>>
>> It is trivial to check which window manager you use in Ubuntu. Every
>> time I checked, it said X11.
> 
> You made the assumption that because you use Nvidia it your setup applies
> to all Ubuntu installations. It doesn't.

The machine I used Ubuntu on doesn't even have an NVIDIA chip. I 
expected that it would use Wayland since the Intel GPUs use open 
drivers, but the system information clearly said X11. Why it would use 
it is beyond me, but that is what it used and I won't argue this further.

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
John 14:6

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#687716

On 2025-03-20, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2025-03-20 01:34, RonB wrote:
>> On 2025-03-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2025-03-19 00:58, RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2025-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> Having discovered that Ubuntu intends to replace the GNU utilities with
>>>>> Rust equivalents which may or may not work as well in the coming months,
>>>>> I switched over to Linux Mint 22.1 from Ubuntu 24.04 on this old Macbook
>>>>> Air 2017. Not only does it bundle the necessary, proprietary wireless
>>>>> drivers allowing for a smooth install unlike Ubuntu, but Linux Mint runs
>>>>> a _lot_ faster under Cinnamon than Ubuntu's implementation of GNOME. I
>>>>> imagine that most of it is due to the use of Snap. For example,
>>>>> LibreOffice went from taking about ten seconds to load (on a cold start)
>>>>> to one or two.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can only hope that Linux Mint does not follow Ubuntu in removing the
>>>>> GNU utilities in favour of the rewritten Rust ones. They have already
>>>>> shown themselves to be less than 100% compatible, so you can imagine
>>>>> what kind of chaos will result from the change.
>>>>
>>>> I'm finding out that the Firefox Snap can't read files in the non-local user
>>>> directory and Flatpaks can't work with applications outside of their
>>>> directory. I also can't (or don't know how) to customize the Snap version of
>>>> Firefox. I think AppImage is the best of the three.
>>>
>>> While AppImage does a stellar job, the reality is that it doesn't have
>>> the security features of Flatpak or Snap. If I had to choose between the
>>> three, Flatpak looks like it is far and beyond the best compromise.
>> 
>> Okay, I don't know enough about it to contradict you. It's probably Snap and
>> Flatpaks security features that get in the way of applications working
>> properly. So another reason not to like Snap. I'll reserve judgment on
>> Flatpak because I found a workaround for Trelby's PDF issue and, I'm
>> guessing, the person who made the Trelby Flatpak probably left something
>> out.
>> 
>> At any rate I "found" (someone told me at the GitHub site) that you can give
>> Trelby access to the /tmp directory and it will allow you to use the default
>> PDF application. So it's a workaround, but it works.
>> 
>> Just type (or copy and paste) into the terminal...
>> 
>> flatpak override --user --filesystem=/tmp org.trelby.Trelby
>> 
>> I still don't know how to customize a Snap version of Firefox, however. And
>> I still don't like that Snaps appear as "partitions" when you run a df
>> command. I've removed all Snaps from my computers.
>> 
>>>> There might be another reason Linux Mint is faster. LM defaults to X11
>>>> instead of Wayland. On my (older) machines Wayland leaves artifacts (is
>>>> blotchy in the dark parts of videos, which I guess are artifacts). X11
>>>> doesn't do this.
>>>>
>>>> Change isn't always for the better.
>>>
>>> Ubuntu 24.04 still uses X11. It seems to default to Wayland after that
>>> release. The slow performance really does seem to be the result of Snap
>>> since even the interface itself shouldn't be slower as it is also based
>>> on GTK3 like Cinnamon.
>> 
>> I'm pretty sure Ubuntu 24.04 defaults to Wayland. But I may be wrong about
>> that. I think I had to disable Wayland the last time I tried a desktop
>> version of Ubuntu.
>
> Notice the headline for this article: 
><https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/05/ubuntu-24-10-wayland-nvidia>
>
> It is trivial to check which window manager you use in Ubuntu. Every 
> time I checked, it said X11.

Was this on the Mac? Maybe it determined the GPU wasn't new enough for 
Wayland?

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

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