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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #680832 > unrolled thread

The problem with not owning the software

Started byCrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
First post2024-12-19 20:03 -0500
Last post2024-12-25 16:19 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 255 — 29 participants

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Contents

  The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-19 20:03 -0500
    Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 16:52 +0800
      Re: The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-21 07:26 -0500
        Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 23:15 +0800
          Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-23 23:24 +0000
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 11:48 +0800
              Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-25 06:54 +0000
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-25 20:39 +0000
                Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-27 22:23 +0800
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-28 07:04 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 16:53 +0800
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-28 19:34 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 15:07 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 15:12 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 17:11 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 17:17 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 13:16 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 14:24 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 15:39 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 16:06 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 17:10 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 17:39 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 18:58 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 19:10 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 19:21 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:55 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 18:02 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 18:35 -0600
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 19:51 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 20:00 -0600
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-29 22:34 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 03:48 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 19:55 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 20:15 -0600
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 21:49 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Jack Sovalot <hee-cawkforme@jack.sovalot> - 2024-12-30 04:06 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 08:31 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-30 19:12 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:53 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 21:06 -0500
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-31 11:01 -0500
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 19:00 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 19:52 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 01:46 +0000
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 20:52 -0500
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-01 17:02 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-01-18 11:54 -0600
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 18:46 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:51 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 09:34 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 00:53 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:42 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:09 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:44 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:05 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:14 +0100
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 03:57 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:25 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 10:09 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 00:32 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-29 01:43 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 20:52 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 07:05 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 06:58 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 21:17 +0100
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-29 20:41 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:31 +0100
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-30 10:56 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 03:24 +0100
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 13:50 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-31 13:18 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:14 +0000
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-01 07:44 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:22 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 19:36 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:09 +0000
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> - 2024-12-31 19:25 +0000
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 11:46 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 20:27 +0100
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:16 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:57 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 18:50 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-30 02:30 +0100
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:55 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 07:05 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 01:00 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 16:15 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-29 16:39 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:00 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 19:08 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:30 -0600
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 07:00 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-30 12:53 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:52 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-30 13:01 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:56 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:25 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:57 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 16:45 +0000
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:31 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-01 14:50 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 22:03 +0000
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:41 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:33 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-02 00:15 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 05:33 +0000
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:03 +0000
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:32 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-04 04:50 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 08:52 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:42 +0000
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 01:05 +0000
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:59 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 10:01 -0500
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 10:29 -0500
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 10:38 -0500
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 11:45 -0500
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 12:00 -0500
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 18:01 +0000
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 13:59 -0500
                                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 20:45 +0000
                                                                  The Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-01-05 03:05 +0000
                                                                    Re: The Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software) pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-01-05 17:28 +0000
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-04 20:25 +0000
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-01-04 15:58 +0000
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-04 11:23 -0500
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-04 21:13 +0000
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-04 21:50 +0000
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:39 +0000
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 00:59 +0000
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 01:52 +0000
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 03:04 +0000
                                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:07 +0000
                                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:22 +0000
                                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 08:23 +0000
                                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 22:47 +0000
                                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 00:12 +0000
                                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-07 02:10 +0000
                                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-07 02:31 +0000
                                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 14:12 +0000
                                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 02:26 +0000
                                                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 13:28 +0000
                                                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 21:28 +0000
                                                            [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 01:50 +0000
                                                              Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 03:01 +0000
                                                                Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 03:25 +0000
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 06:47 +0000
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 08:20 -0500
                                                                      Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-08 12:21 -0500
                                                                        Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-08 14:10 -0500
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 21:18 -0500
                                                              [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 02:34 +0000
                                                                Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 22:08 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 22:34 -0500
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-05 07:19 -0500
                                                                      Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-05 10:39 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 03:39 +0000
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 08:13 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-05 08:52 -0600
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:32 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 20:53 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 21:26 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 06:38 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 07:17 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2024-12-29 13:19 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 08:48 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-12-29 08:02 -0600
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 09:08 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:32 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:46 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 20:56 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 17:03 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 23:32 -0600
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-05 11:05 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 13:29 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-05 13:53 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-05 15:08 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-06 10:17 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 10:28 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-06 11:26 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-06 12:34 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 12:40 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-06 14:23 -0500
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-06 16:27 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 13:21 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> - 2024-12-29 07:41 -0700
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 19:05 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 20:50 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:05 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-03 09:09 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-03 20:33 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-01-03 21:00 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-03 23:28 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 21:17 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:57 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 22:25 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:19 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-04 04:49 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 01:10 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:52 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 15:55 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:20 +0000
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 08:11 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-06 16:16 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 22:46 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-11 11:36 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 23:20 -0600
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 18:58 -0500
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:59 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 02:18 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 08:41 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-31 13:08 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 13:54 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:26 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-01 07:43 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 10:32 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:37 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 19:43 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:47 +0000
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 18:58 +0000
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:25 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 19:32 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-01 01:43 +0000
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 11:53 +0800
        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 10:08 -0500
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 20:32 +0100
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 21:34 -0500
            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 16:47 +0000
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:29 +0000
                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 21:59 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-02 18:01 -0500
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 11:26 +0000
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-03 08:55 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 14:33 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 19:32 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:46 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-05 15:46 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:17 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-06 14:57 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:47 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:14 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:09 +0000
        Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 19:02 -0500
          Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2024-12-31 10:10 +0000
            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 08:50 -0500
            Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 12:09 -0500
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 10:31 +0000
    Re: The problem with not owning the software bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-12-25 16:19 -0500

Page 12 of 13 — ← Prev page 1 … 10 11 [12] 13  Next page →


#682780

FromDFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca>
Date2025-01-04 10:32 -0500
Message-ID<vlbkb2$h0k1$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682038
On 1/1/2025 7:43 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
> 
>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 13:54:08 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for that great link.  I haven't written any meaningful VBA code
>>> in years, but it helps make MS Office the only office software worth
>>> considering if you need custom applications.
>>
>> Nobody has written meaningful VBA code in years.
> 
> Not that anyone needs this, but...
> 
>      https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/BASIC_Guide


I've been itching for the better part of 20 years for a cola-based MS 
Office detractor to do some significant LO/Basic coding so it could be 
compared to my Office/VBA.  In all that time, nobody has stepped up. 
The closest was Feeb who wrote 20 lines of LO Basic sloppy-slop 8.5 
years ago.

MS Office remains LibreOffice's master, decade after decade

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682860

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-05 00:37 +0000
Message-ID<vlck8b$mcpa$8@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682780
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:32:52 -0500, DFS wrote:

> I've been itching for the better part of 20 years for a cola-based MS
> Office detractor to do some significant LO/Basic coding so it could be
> compared to my Office/VBA.

Do you have an equivalent to this <https://github.com/eea/odfpy>?

Here’s just one part of my invoice-formatting code:

        def write_invoice_header(self, invoice) :
            self.doc = odf.opendocument.OpenDocumentText()
            self.invoice_prefix = invoice["invoice_prefix"]

            now = time.time()
            for \
                this_meta \
            in \
                (
                    odf.dc.Title(text = "Invoice for %s" % invoice["client_name"].split("\n", 1)[0]),
                    odf.dc.Creator(text = "Geek Central Business"),
                    odf.meta.CreationDate(text = format_odf_time(now)),
                    odf.dc.Date(text = format_odf_time(now)), # interpreted by OOo as modification date
                ) \
            :
                self.doc.meta.addElement(this_meta)
            #end for

            self.doc.fontfacedecls.addElement \
              (
                odf.style.FontFace
                  (
                    name = invoice_font,
                    fontfamilygeneric = "roman",
                    fontpitch = "variable"
                  )
              )
            default_text_properties = odf.style.TextProperties \
              (
                fontname = invoice_font,
                fontfamilygeneric = "roman"
              )
            default_text_properties.setAttrNS(odf.namespaces.FONS, "font-family", invoice_font)
            link_element \
              (
                construct = odf.style.DefaultStyle,
                attrs = dict(family = "paragraph"),
                parent = self.doc.styles,
                children =
                    (
                        default_text_properties,
                        odf.style.ParagraphProperties
                          (
                            marginbottom = "0.21cm",
                            lineheight = "115%",
                          ),
                    )
              )

            self.doc.text.addElement \
              (
                odf.text.P
                  (
                    stylename = link_element
                      (
                        construct = odf.style.Style,
                        attrs = dict(name = "top title", family = "paragraph"),
                        parent = self.doc.automaticstyles,
                        children =
                            (
                                odf.style.ParagraphProperties
                                  (
                                    textalign = "center",
                                    marginbottom = "0.71cm"
                                  ),
                            )
                      ),
                    text = "%(gst)sINVOICE" % {"gst" : ("", "TAX ")[self.gst_rate != None]}
                  )
              )

            cust_info_item_attrs = dict \
              (
                textindent = "-2.0cm", # counteract marginleft on first line
                marginleft = "2.0cm", # indent for lines after first
              )
            cust_info_item_style = link_element \
              (
                construct = odf.style.Style,
                attrs = dict(name = "cust info item", family = "paragraph"),
                parent = self.doc.automaticstyles,
                children =
                    (
                        odf.style.ParagraphProperties(**cust_info_item_attrs),
                    )
              )
            cust_info_item_attrs["breakbefore"] = "column"
            cust_info_item_style_2 = link_element \
              (
                construct = odf.style.Style,
                attrs = dict(name = "cust info item 2", family = "paragraph"),
                parent = self.doc.automaticstyles,
                children =
                    (
                        odf.style.ParagraphProperties(**cust_info_item_attrs),
                    )
              )

            cust_info_style = link_element \
              (
                construct = odf.style.Style,
                attrs = dict(name = "cust info", family = "section"),
                parent = self.doc.automaticstyles,
                children =
                    (
                        link_element \
                          (
                            construct = odf.style.SectionProperties,
                            children =
                                (
                                    odf.style.Columns(columncount = 2),
                                )
                          ),
                    )
              )
            cust_info_name_style = link_element \
              (
                construct = odf.style.Style,
                attrs = dict(name = "cust info name", family = "text"),
                parent = self.doc.automaticstyles,
                children =
                    (
                        odf.style.TextProperties(fontweight = "bold"),
                    )
              )

            cust_info = odf.text.Section(name = "cust info", stylename = cust_info_style)
            for \
                item_name, item_value, new_col \
            in \
                (
                    (
                        ("Client", invoice["client_name"] + "\n" + invoice["client_address"], False),
                        ("Contact", invoice["client_contact"], False),
                        ("Date", format_pretty_date(invoice["when_generated"]), True),
                        (
                            "Pay to",
                                "\n".join((details.name, details.address_1, details.address_2))
                            +
                                (
                                    "\n" + details.country_name,
                                    "",
                                )[self.gst_rate != None],
                            False
                        ),
                        ("Bank a/c", details.bank_account, False),
                    )
                +
                    (
                        (),
                        (
                            ("GST No", details.ird_nr, False),
                        )
                    )[self.gst_rate != None]
                ) \
            :
                this_item = odf.text.P \
                  (
                    stylename = (cust_info_item_style, cust_info_item_style_2)[new_col]
                  )
                add_elements \
                  (
                    this_item,
                    odf.text.Span(stylename = cust_info_name_style, text = item_name),
                    odf.text.Tab(),
                  )
                first_line = True
                for line in item_value.split("\n") :
                    if not first_line :
                        this_item.addElement(odf.text.LineBreak())
                    #end if
                    this_item.addElement \
                      (
                        odf.text.Span(text = line)
                      )
                    first_line = False
                #end for
                cust_info.addElement(this_item)
            #end for
            self.doc.text.addElement(cust_info)

            link_element \
              (
                construct = odf.text.P,
                attrs = dict
                  (
                    stylename = link_element
                      (
                        construct = odf.style.Style,
                        attrs = dict(name = "work header", family = "paragraph"),
                        parent = self.doc.automaticstyles,
                        children =
                            (
                                odf.style.TextProperties(fontweight = "bold"),
                                link_element
                                  (
                                    construct = odf.style.ParagraphProperties,
                                    children =
                                        (
                                            make_tab_stops((dict(position = "15.1cm"),)),
                                        )
                                  ),
                            )
                      )
                  ),
                parent = self.doc.text,
                children =
                    (
                        odf.text.Span(text = "Description of Work"),
                        odf.text.Tab(),
                        odf.text.Span(text = "Charge"),
                    )
              )
            self.work_item_tabs = \
                (
                    dict
                      (
                        type = "char",
                        char = ".",
                        position = "15.9cm"
                      ),
                ) # I can't simply build one odf.style.TabStops object and reuse it
            self.work_item_style = link_element \
              (
                construct = odf.style.Style,
                attrs = dict(name = "work item", family = "paragraph"),
                parent = self.doc.automaticstyles,
                children =
                    (
                        link_element
                          (
                            construct = odf.style.ParagraphProperties,
                            children =
                                (
                                    make_tab_stops(self.work_item_tabs),
                                )
                          ),
                    )
              )
        #end write_invoice_header

I can post more, if you like.

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#682865

FromDFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca>
Date2025-01-04 19:43 -0500
Message-ID<vlckj5$m9kt$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682860
On 1/4/2025 7:37 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:32:52 -0500, DFS wrote:
> 
>> I've been itching for the better part of 20 years for a cola-based MS
>> Office detractor to do some significant LO/Basic coding so it could be
>> compared to my Office/VBA.

<snip>


> I can post more, if you like.


Why did you post python code?  I explained clearly what's making me itch.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682896

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-05 02:47 +0000
Message-ID<vlcrsm$nnc8$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682865
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 19:43:21 -0500, DFS wrote:

> Why did you post python code?

Because that’s what I use to automate my office operations.

So, can you come up with better VBA code than that?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#681902

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2024-12-31 18:58 +0000
Message-ID<vl1et9$2c01d$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#681831
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 02:18:09 -0500, DFS wrote:

> On 12/30/2024 7:59 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 18:58:06 -0500, DFS wrote:
>> 
>>> If you ever do need to automate office software or build custom
>>> applications, you'll find that MS Office and VBA is extremely superior
>>> to ALL other office software.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, no. 
> 
> You have NO idea what you're talking about.

Says the one who doesn’t do this kind of stuff for a living.

>> Even Microsoft realizes that VBA is crap, which is why
>> it is offering Python access to Excel users -- at a cost, of course.
> 
> Python can't come close to replacing VBA (and vice versa of course).

VBA is just an automation language for Office -- and not a good one at 
that.

Python is a proper programming language. Which Microsoft seems to think 
Office users will actually be willing to pay extra for.

That tells you all you need to know.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#681908

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-12-31 19:25 +0000
Message-ID<ltiuohF2k4sU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#681831
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 02:18:09 -0500, DFS wrote:

> On 12/30/2024 7:59 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 18:58:06 -0500, DFS wrote:
>> 
>>> If you ever do need to automate office software or build custom
>>> applications, you'll find that MS Office and VBA is extremely superior
>>> to ALL other office software.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, no.
> 
> You have NO idea what you're talking about.
> 
> 
>  > Even Microsoft realizes that VBA is crap, which is why it is offering
>  > Python access to Excel users -- at a cost, of course.
> 
> Python can't come close to replacing VBA (and vice versa of course).

Esri did a good job of replacing VBA.

https://www.esri.com/arcgis-blog/products/arcgis-desktop/3d-gis/arcgis-
desktop-and-vba-moving-forward/?rmedium=redirect&rsource=blogs.esri.com/
esri/arcgis/2016/11/14/arcgis-desktop-and-vba-moving-forward

They had their own scripting language, Avenue, and switched to VBA over 20 
years ago,

https://www.esri.com/news/arcnews/fall02articles/new-tool.html


For a while VBA and Python coexisted, but VBA was phased out. Enjoy living 
in the past.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#681965

FromDFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca>
Date2024-12-31 19:32 -0500
Message-ID<vl22ei$2eucj$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#681908
On 12/31/2024 2:25 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 02:18:09 -0500, DFS wrote:
> 
>> On 12/30/2024 7:59 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 18:58:06 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you ever do need to automate office software or build custom
>>>> applications, you'll find that MS Office and VBA is extremely superior
>>>> to ALL other office software.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, no.
>>
>> You have NO idea what you're talking about.
>>
>>
>>   > Even Microsoft realizes that VBA is crap, which is why it is offering
>>   > Python access to Excel users -- at a cost, of course.
>>
>> Python can't come close to replacing VBA (and vice versa of course).
> 
> Esri did a good job of replacing VBA.
> 
> https://www.esri.com/arcgis-blog/products/arcgis-desktop/3d-gis/arcgis-
> desktop-and-vba-moving-forward/?rmedium=redirect&rsource=blogs.esri.com/
> esri/arcgis/2016/11/14/arcgis-desktop-and-vba-moving-forward
> 
> They had their own scripting language, Avenue, and switched to VBA over 20
> years ago,
> 
> https://www.esri.com/news/arcnews/fall02articles/new-tool.html


The best embedded scripting language I came across was Borland ObjectPAL 
(a derivative of Delphi), included with Borland Paradox for Windows in 
the early-mid 90s.  PDoxWin lives on in WordPerfect Office; not sure if 
it still uses ObjectPAL.  WP includes a limited VBA.




> For a while VBA and Python coexisted, but VBA was phased out. 

Of what?



> Enjoy living in the past.

VBA is thriving in Office 2024 and 365.  Get with the present.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#681981

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-01-01 01:43 +0000
Message-ID<ltjktpF61fhU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#681965
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 19:32:19 -0500, DFS wrote:

> On 12/31/2024 2:25 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 02:18:09 -0500, DFS wrote:
>> 
>>> On 12/30/2024 7:59 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 18:58:06 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you ever do need to automate office software or build custom
>>>>> applications, you'll find that MS Office and VBA is extremely
>>>>> superior to ALL other office software.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, no.
>>>
>>> You have NO idea what you're talking about.
>>>
>>>
>>>   > Even Microsoft realizes that VBA is crap, which is why it is
>>>   > offering Python access to Excel users -- at a cost, of course.
>>>
>>> Python can't come close to replacing VBA (and vice versa of course).
>> 
>> Esri did a good job of replacing VBA.
>> 
>> https://www.esri.com/arcgis-blog/products/arcgis-desktop/3d-gis/arcgis-
>> desktop-and-vba-moving-forward/?
rmedium=redirect&rsource=blogs.esri.com/
>> esri/arcgis/2016/11/14/arcgis-desktop-and-vba-moving-forward
>> 
>> They had their own scripting language, Avenue, and switched to VBA over
>> 20 years ago,
>> 
>> https://www.esri.com/news/arcnews/fall02articles/new-tool.html
> 
> 
> The best embedded scripting language I came across was Borland ObjectPAL
> (a derivative of Delphi), included with Borland Paradox for Windows in
> the early-mid 90s.  PDoxWin lives on in WordPerfect Office; not sure if
> it still uses ObjectPAL.  WP includes a limited VBA.

My first experience with Windows was using the Borland IDE and OWL. I 
liked it better than MFC but when you're the 700 pound gorilla...

>> For a whil MS would dearly e VBA and Python coexisted, but VBA was 
phased out.
> 
> Of what?

Esri. Try to follow along. 

>> Enjoy living in the past.
> 
> VBA is thriving in Office 2024 and 365.  Get with the present.

As I've mentioned many times I have never used Office so I haven't 
followed VBA. I have a suspicion that like WinForms MS would dearly love 
to drown VBA in a bathtub but there is too much baggage. I'm not sure 
they've even managed to eradicate classic Visual Basic. There was a whole 
cottage industry of VB controls that didn't transfer to VB .NET afaik.



[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#681225

From"Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com>
Date2024-12-25 11:53 +0800
Message-ID<vkfviv$28j6f$1@toylet.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#681168
On 24/12/2024 7:24 am, Ant wrote:
> In alt.comp.os.windows-11 Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If you really paid for it, the online check should still tell you that
>> you own it, or at least, you have a "digital entitlement".  :)
> 
> And if this company goes away... :(

So you wanna talk about real and virtual? Well... :)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#681702

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
Message-ID<vktlcp$1i26p$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#680982
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-21 à 03:52, Mr. Man-wai Chang a écrit :
>> On 20/12/2024 9:03 am, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>> <https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-365-users- 
>>> hit-by-random-product-deactivation-errors/>
>>> 
>>> ​Microsoft is investigating a known issue triggering "Product
>>> Deactivated" errors for customers using Microsoft 365 Office apps.
>>> 
>> 
>> It's not about "owning the software", but whether it requires a real- 
>> time online account to work. The usual words are "standalone" and 
>> "offline". :)
> 
> The moment you require an online account to verify if you are the person 
> who bought the software, you don't own it.

You've never "owned" software, afaia. At best, you own a licence which
allows you to use the software within the terms of the licence. If you
break the terms then you can lose the right to use the software. 

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#681728

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2024-12-30 10:08 -0500
Message-ID<4IycP.183255$DYF8.173507@fx14.iad>
In reply to#681702
On 2024-12-30 03:24, Chris wrote:
> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> Le 2024-12-21 à 03:52, Mr. Man-wai Chang a écrit :
>>> On 20/12/2024 9:03 am, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>> <https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-365-users-
>>>> hit-by-random-product-deactivation-errors/>
>>>>
>>>> ​Microsoft is investigating a known issue triggering "Product
>>>> Deactivated" errors for customers using Microsoft 365 Office apps.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's not about "owning the software", but whether it requires a real-
>>> time online account to work. The usual words are "standalone" and
>>> "offline". :)
>>
>> The moment you require an online account to verify if you are the person
>> who bought the software, you don't own it.
> 
> You've never "owned" software, afaia. At best, you own a licence which
> allows you to use the software within the terms of the licence. If you
> break the terms then you can lose the right to use the software.

It's pretty easy to own the software if you use open-source, to be 
honest. You have access to the code and can do as you wish with it as 
long as you agree to share your modifications with the people who 
offered it to you. That's as good as it gets outside of producing your 
own program.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

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#681912

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2024-12-31 20:32 +0100
Message-ID<5ftd4lx9h4.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#681728
On 2024-12-30 16:08, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2024-12-30 03:24, Chris wrote:
>> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> Le 2024-12-21 à 03:52, Mr. Man-wai Chang a écrit :
>>>> On 20/12/2024 9:03 am, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>> <https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-365-users-
>>>>> hit-by-random-product-deactivation-errors/>
>>>>>
>>>>> ​Microsoft is investigating a known issue triggering "Product
>>>>> Deactivated" errors for customers using Microsoft 365 Office apps.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's not about "owning the software", but whether it requires a real-
>>>> time online account to work. The usual words are "standalone" and
>>>> "offline". :)
>>>
>>> The moment you require an online account to verify if you are the person
>>> who bought the software, you don't own it.
>>
>> You've never "owned" software, afaia. At best, you own a licence which
>> allows you to use the software within the terms of the licence. If you
>> break the terms then you can lose the right to use the software.
> 
> It's pretty easy to own the software if you use open-source, to be 
> honest. You have access to the code and can do as you wish with it as 
> long as you agree to share your modifications with the people who 
> offered it to you. That's as good as it gets outside of producing your 
> own program.

I think you can keep your modifications to yourself, as long as you 
don't share or publish or sell the binary. Just your own internal usage.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#681997

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2024-12-31 21:34 -0500
Message-ID<NQ1dP.111422$Uup4.9112@fx10.iad>
In reply to#681912
On 2024-12-31 14:32, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-12-30 16:08, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On 2024-12-30 03:24, Chris wrote:
>>> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> Le 2024-12-21 à 03:52, Mr. Man-wai Chang a écrit :
>>>>> On 20/12/2024 9:03 am, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>> <https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-365-users-
>>>>>> hit-by-random-product-deactivation-errors/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ​Microsoft is investigating a known issue triggering "Product
>>>>>> Deactivated" errors for customers using Microsoft 365 Office apps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not about "owning the software", but whether it requires a real-
>>>>> time online account to work. The usual words are "standalone" and
>>>>> "offline". :)
>>>>
>>>> The moment you require an online account to verify if you are the 
>>>> person
>>>> who bought the software, you don't own it.
>>>
>>> You've never "owned" software, afaia. At best, you own a licence which
>>> allows you to use the software within the terms of the licence. If you
>>> break the terms then you can lose the right to use the software.
>>
>> It's pretty easy to own the software if you use open-source, to be 
>> honest. You have access to the code and can do as you wish with it as 
>> long as you agree to share your modifications with the people who 
>> offered it to you. That's as good as it gets outside of producing your 
>> own program.
> 
> I think you can keep your modifications to yourself, as long as you 
> don't share or publish or sell the binary. Just your own internal usage.

 From what I read in Stallman's books and what I know about the GPL, all 
of the above is correct.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

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#682064

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-01-01 16:47 +0000
Message-ID<vl3rje$2rvfu$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#681728
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-12-30 03:24, Chris wrote:
>> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> Le 2024-12-21 à 03:52, Mr. Man-wai Chang a écrit :
>>>> On 20/12/2024 9:03 am, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>> <https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-365-users-
>>>>> hit-by-random-product-deactivation-errors/>
>>>>> 
>>>>> ​Microsoft is investigating a known issue triggering "Product
>>>>> Deactivated" errors for customers using Microsoft 365 Office apps.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> It's not about "owning the software", but whether it requires a real-
>>>> time online account to work. The usual words are "standalone" and
>>>> "offline". :)
>>> 
>>> The moment you require an online account to verify if you are the person
>>> who bought the software, you don't own it.
>> 
>> You've never "owned" software, afaia. At best, you own a licence which
>> allows you to use the software within the terms of the licence. If you
>> break the terms then you can lose the right to use the software.
> 
> It's pretty easy to own the software if you use open-source, to be 
> honest. You have access to the code and can do as you wish with it as 
> long as you agree to share your modifications with the people who 
> offered it to you. That's as good as it gets outside of producing your 
> own program.

You still don't own it, but now it's purely semantics. 

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#682087

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-01 19:29 +0000
Message-ID<vl452u$2tjip$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682064
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 16:47:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> You still don't own it, but now it's purely semantics.

“Semantics” means "meaning”. So “now it’s purely meaning”?

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#682248

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
Message-ID<vl5vln$3b63u$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682087
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 16:47:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> 
>> You still don't own it, but now it's purely semantics.
> 
> “Semantics” means "meaning”. So “now it’s purely meaning”?

Correct. With FLOSS you don't own the software, as it's still just a
license, but you can do with it more or less whatever you want. Meaning in
practice it is indistinguishable from ownership. 

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#682391

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-02 21:59 +0000
Message-ID<vl728i$3h9eh$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682248
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 12:09:27 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 16:47:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>> 
>>> You still don't own it, but now it's purely semantics.
>> 
>> “Semantics” means "meaning”. So “now it’s purely meaning”?
> 
> Correct. With FLOSS you don't own the software, as it's still just a
> license, but you can do with it more or less whatever you want. Meaning
> in practice it is indistinguishable from ownership.

So the distinction from actual ownership ... is that meaningful or not?

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#682398

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2025-01-02 18:01 -0500
Message-ID<oVEdP.37142$oCrf.35023@fx33.iad>
In reply to#682391
On 2025-01-02 16:59, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 12:09:27 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> 
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 16:47:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>>
>>>> You still don't own it, but now it's purely semantics.
>>>
>>> “Semantics” means "meaning”. So “now it’s purely meaning”?
>>
>> Correct. With FLOSS you don't own the software, as it's still just a
>> license, but you can do with it more or less whatever you want. Meaning
>> in practice it is indistinguishable from ownership.
> 
> So the distinction from actual ownership ... is that meaningful or not?

I'm just going to say this again because it bears repeating:

1) I don't need to make an account to download software to Linux.
2) I don't need to make an account to use the software I downloaded.
3) I can install Linux without needing to log into an account I have or 
create one.

If privacy is a concern, those are interesting advantages. Even if you 
don't care about privacy, you might be sick of logging in everywhere.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

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#682494

FromFrank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
Date2025-01-03 11:26 +0000
Message-ID<vl8l0p.11u4.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
In reply to#682398
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2025-01-02 16:59, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> > On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 12:09:27 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> > 
> >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 16:47:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> You still don't own it, but now it's purely semantics.
> >>>
> >>> ?Semantics? means "meaning?. So ?now it?s purely meaning??
> >>
> >> Correct. With FLOSS you don't own the software, as it's still just a
> >> license, but you can do with it more or less whatever you want. Meaning
> >> in practice it is indistinguishable from ownership.
> > 
> > So the distinction from actual ownership ... is that meaningful or not?
> 
> I'm just going to say this again because it bears repeating:
> 
> 1) I don't need to make an account to download software to Linux.
> 2) I don't need to make an account to use the software I downloaded.
> 3) I can install Linux without needing to log into an account I have or 
> create one.
> 
> If privacy is a concern, those are interesting advantages. Even if you 
> don't care about privacy, you might be sick of logging in everywhere.

  FYI, you don't need to do any of those things for/on Windows either.

  But most people don't know or can't be bothered that they have that
option.

  For Windows, it's quite easy and practical. No so much for, for
example, Android.

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#682525

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2025-01-03 08:55 -0500
Message-ID<f%RdP.12364$h3%7.9596@fx02.iad>
In reply to#682494
On 2025-01-03 06:26, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2025-01-02 16:59, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 12:09:27 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 16:47:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You still don't own it, but now it's purely semantics.
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Semantics? means "meaning?. So ?now it?s purely meaning??
>>>>
>>>> Correct. With FLOSS you don't own the software, as it's still just a
>>>> license, but you can do with it more or less whatever you want. Meaning
>>>> in practice it is indistinguishable from ownership.
>>>
>>> So the distinction from actual ownership ... is that meaningful or not?
>>
>> I'm just going to say this again because it bears repeating:
>>
>> 1) I don't need to make an account to download software to Linux.
>> 2) I don't need to make an account to use the software I downloaded.
>> 3) I can install Linux without needing to log into an account I have or
>> create one.
>>
>> If privacy is a concern, those are interesting advantages. Even if you
>> don't care about privacy, you might be sick of logging in everywhere.
> 
>    FYI, you don't need to do any of those things for/on Windows either.

Installing Windows 11? The installer won't allow you to continue without 
logging in to your account. Sure, there are workarounds if you pray five 
times a day and stand on your head doing so, but it doesn't allow it be 
default.

>    But most people don't know or can't be bothered that they have that
> option.
> 
>    For Windows, it's quite easy and practical. No so much for, for
> example, Android.

And what does Android have to do with this conversation?

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

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