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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #680832 > unrolled thread
| Started by | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2024-12-19 20:03 -0500 |
| Last post | 2024-12-25 16:19 -0500 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 255 — 29 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.advocacy
The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-19 20:03 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 16:52 +0800
Re: The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-21 07:26 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 23:15 +0800
Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-23 23:24 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 11:48 +0800
Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-25 06:54 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-25 20:39 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-27 22:23 +0800
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-28 07:04 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 16:53 +0800
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-28 19:34 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 15:07 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 15:12 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 17:11 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 17:17 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 13:16 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 14:24 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 15:39 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 16:06 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 17:10 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 17:39 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 18:58 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 19:10 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 19:21 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:55 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 18:02 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 18:35 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 19:51 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 20:00 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-29 22:34 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 03:48 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 19:55 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 20:15 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 21:49 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Jack Sovalot <hee-cawkforme@jack.sovalot> - 2024-12-30 04:06 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 08:31 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-30 19:12 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:53 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 21:06 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-31 11:01 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 19:00 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 19:52 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 01:46 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 20:52 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-01 17:02 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-01-18 11:54 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 18:46 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:51 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 09:34 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 00:53 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:42 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:09 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:44 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:05 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:14 +0100
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 03:57 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:25 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 10:09 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 00:32 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-29 01:43 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 20:52 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 07:05 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 06:58 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 21:17 +0100
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-29 20:41 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:31 +0100
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-30 10:56 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 03:24 +0100
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 13:50 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-31 13:18 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:14 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-01 07:44 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:22 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 19:36 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:09 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> - 2024-12-31 19:25 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 11:46 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 20:27 +0100
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:16 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:57 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 18:50 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-30 02:30 +0100
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:55 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 07:05 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 01:00 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 16:15 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-29 16:39 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:00 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 19:08 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:30 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 07:00 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-30 12:53 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:52 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-30 13:01 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:56 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:25 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:57 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 16:45 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:31 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-01 14:50 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 22:03 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:41 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:33 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-02 00:15 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 05:33 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:03 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:32 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-04 04:50 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 08:52 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:42 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 01:05 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:59 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 10:01 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 10:29 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 10:38 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 11:45 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 12:00 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 18:01 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 13:59 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 20:45 +0000
The Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-01-05 03:05 +0000
Re: The Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software) pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-01-05 17:28 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-04 20:25 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-01-04 15:58 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-04 11:23 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-04 21:13 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-04 21:50 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:39 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 00:59 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 01:52 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 03:04 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:07 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:22 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 08:23 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 22:47 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 00:12 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-07 02:10 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-07 02:31 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 14:12 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 02:26 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 13:28 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 21:28 +0000
[OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 01:50 +0000
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 03:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 03:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 06:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 08:20 -0500
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-08 12:21 -0500
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-08 14:10 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 21:18 -0500
[OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 02:34 +0000
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 22:08 -0500
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 22:34 -0500
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-05 07:19 -0500
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-05 10:39 -0500
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 03:39 +0000
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 08:13 -0500
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-05 08:52 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:32 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 20:53 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 21:26 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 06:38 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 07:17 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2024-12-29 13:19 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 08:48 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-12-29 08:02 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 09:08 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:32 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:46 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 20:56 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 17:03 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 23:32 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-05 11:05 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 13:29 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-05 13:53 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-05 15:08 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-06 10:17 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 10:28 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-06 11:26 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-06 12:34 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 12:40 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-06 14:23 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-06 16:27 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 13:21 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> - 2024-12-29 07:41 -0700
Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 19:05 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 20:50 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:05 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-03 09:09 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-03 20:33 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-01-03 21:00 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-03 23:28 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 21:17 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:57 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 22:25 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:19 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-04 04:49 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 01:10 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:52 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 15:55 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:20 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 08:11 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-06 16:16 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 22:46 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-11 11:36 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 23:20 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 18:58 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:59 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 02:18 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 08:41 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-31 13:08 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 13:54 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:26 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-01 07:43 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 10:32 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:37 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 19:43 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:47 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 18:58 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:25 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 19:32 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-01 01:43 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 11:53 +0800
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 10:08 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 20:32 +0100
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 21:34 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 16:47 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:29 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 21:59 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-02 18:01 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 11:26 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-03 08:55 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 14:33 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 19:32 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:46 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-05 15:46 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:17 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-06 14:57 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:47 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:14 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:09 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 19:02 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2024-12-31 10:10 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 08:50 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 12:09 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 10:31 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-12-25 16:19 -0500
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| From | DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-04 11:45 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vlbojg$homt$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #682783 |
On 1/4/2025 10:38 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote: > On 2025-01-04 10:29, DFS wrote: >> On 1/4/2025 10:01 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote: >> >> >>> At first glance, there is a lot about Windows that is way more user- >>> friendly than Linux. However, if you take something like Linux Mint >>> and compare it to Windows 11, you'd wonder _how_ Windows 11 is >>> friendlier. In Windows 11, some applications can't be removed and you >>> don't get an idea why. Some Windows components aren't even listed in >>> the applications so you have to wonder how to install or remove them. >>> For drivers, they're installed through Windows Update but if they >>> don't work right, you just have to know about the Device Manager >>> which is impossible to find on your own because they're phasing out >>> the Control Panel. Some programs are available through the Window >>> Store, others through the web which means that some are repairable >>> and easily uninstallable whereas the others aren't... and so on. For >>> new users, Linux Mint is actually _much_ simpler than Windows is. >> >> >> Right-click on the Win11 Start button. > > You missed the point: there is inconsistency. Which Linux distro offers perfect consistency? I agree there is significant overlap/duplication/confusion between Win10/11 Settings and Control Panel. Either it was too much work to migrate all the Control Panel functionality at once to Settings, or they left Control Panel intact for a while because of the massive installed base that expects it. > Why would you update through Windows Update but manage through Device Manager? That's how it's done in ALL operating systems, right? > Why would > Device Manager be listed by right-clicking the Start button (by the way, > how would anyone know it's there? How does anyone know to right-click on a desktop or taskbar or icon or file? You just do it as part of OS usage and discovery - since Windows 95. > ) but not in the Settings? It's right there: Settings | Bluetooth and Devices (which is an odd combo) > People are likely to be more lost in Windows than in Linux Mint. Maybe. Maybe not. I haven't picked apart a GuhNoo distro in years, but it's always entertaining to find glaring distro bugs, even in 2025. Apparently GuhNoo devs get so distracted by their long blue hair and uncomfortable ball-tucking that they can't focus on the unpleasant task of testing.
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| From | Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-04 12:00 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <MOdeP.125832$Uup4.83532@fx10.iad> |
| In reply to | #682794 |
On 2025-01-04 11:45, DFS wrote: >>> Right-click on the Win11 Start button. >> >> You missed the point: there is inconsistency. > > > Which Linux distro offers perfect consistency? Honestly? Linux Mint and the KDE spin of Fedora, from my experience at least. I would add Nobara there since I used it for a bit. > I agree there is significant overlap/duplication/confusion between > Win10/11 Settings and Control Panel. Either it was too much work to > migrate all the Control Panel functionality at once to Settings, or they > left Control Panel intact for a while because of the massive installed > base that expects it. I would imagine that it's the latter. However, the point here is not that the Control Panel shouldn't be there; it's that the fact that it is still is shows an inconsistency on the part of Microsoft Windows. They could have migrated that to something new since it is apparently in their interest to do so, but they haven't yet. As such, any new user of Windows is going to wonder why some things are using a modern interface and others are using an archaic one. They will also wonder why they need to go into this archaic interface to do basic things which should be possible in the modern one such as set up a printer or configure a more complicated network connection. >> Why would you update through Windows Update but manage through Device >> Manager? > > That's how it's done in ALL operating systems, right? No, with Linux the device is either detected or it isn't. The best possible driver for the hardware, if it's detected, is automatically in the kernel except when it can't be because it is proprietary like the NVIDIA driver. As such, there is little to no need to play with drivers unlike Windows. With Windows, the latest audio driver might break something which prompts you to restore the previous one. However, Microsoft routinely updates that driver regardless of the fact that you need it so you quickly need to be acquainted with the Control Panel and the reversion process there. It was also the case for the dreaded MediaTek MT7921 wireless chip: some drivers were better than others so you had to try them all until you got the best one for your setting. In Linux, the best possible one was bundled by default but it didn't change the fact that the hardware was just pure garbage from the very beginning and should be switched at the first opportunity. < snip > > Maybe. Maybe not. > > I haven't picked apart a GuhNoo distro in years, but it's always > entertaining to find glaring distro bugs, even in 2025. > > Apparently GuhNoo devs get so distracted by their long blue hair and > uncomfortable ball-tucking that they can't focus on the unpleasant task > of testing. The blue-haired losers are developing every one of the operating systems nowadays. As Lunduke pointed out in his latest video, the only operating systems you can install which don't have a shred of woke are OpenBSD and the ones that existed before woke became a thing. Are you interested in using MS-DOS or OS/2 Warp 3? That's part of why I am now down to using the best distribution I've come across: Fedora. I refuse to give them a cent of my money though. -- Andrzej (Andre) Matuch Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41 KDE supporting member
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| From | Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-04 18:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <6779778d$0$28051$426a34cc@news.free.fr> |
| In reply to | #682794 |
Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit : > > Which Linux distro offers perfect consistency? First, I'd say it's not the job of the distro. It's the job of the Window Manager. Now, the first time I installed Mint for someone else, I installed a few different WM to show that there is no better WM, there is only a WM which suit more the user. And they have to be tested to know which one to chose. I have to say it was disturbing to see they all look similar and I still don't know if I like it or not. So, Mint is not perfect, but it's the only one I know which offer real consistency. -- Si vous avez du temps à perdre : https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
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| From | DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-04 13:59 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vlc0em$j5oo$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #682804 |
On 1/4/2025 1:01 PM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote: > Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit : >> >> Which Linux distro offers perfect consistency? > > First, I'd say it's not the job of the distro. It's the job of the > Window Manager. > > Now, the first time I installed Mint for someone else, I installed a few > different WM to show that there is no better WM, there is only a WM > which suit more the user. And they have to be tested to know which one > to chose. I have to say it was disturbing to see they all look similar > and I still don't know if I like it or not. > > So, Mint is not perfect, but it's the only one I know which offer real > consistency. Cinnamon desktop?
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| From | Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-04 20:45 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <67799e06$0$12936$426a74cc@news.free.fr> |
| In reply to | #682815 |
Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit : > On 1/4/2025 1:01 PM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote: >> Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit : >>> >>> Which Linux distro offers perfect consistency? >> >> First, I'd say it's not the job of the distro. It's the job of the >> Window Manager. >> >> Now, the first time I installed Mint for someone else, I installed a few >> different WM to show that there is no better WM, there is only a WM >> which suit more the user. And they have to be tested to know which one >> to chose. I have to say it was disturbing to see they all look similar >> and I still don't know if I like it or not. >> >> So, Mint is not perfect, but it's the only one I know which offer real >> consistency. > > Cinnamon desktop? What I mean is cinnamon is the default desktop. I don't like it, it's a matter of taste, it's of no concern here. But when I installed xfce, lxde and enlightenment, they all looked like cinnamon and that was disturbing. I was hopping to show different ways of using Linux, but they were so similar, it was like showing the Window Manager is of no consequence, they can all look the same. So, it was a consistency brought by the distro, not by the WM. -- Si vous avez du temps à perdre : https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
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| From | vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 03:05 +0000 |
| Subject | The Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software) |
| Message-ID | <ltub8cFrn5nU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #682825 |
On 04 Jan 2025 20:45:58 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote in <67799e06$0$12936$426a74cc@news.free.fr>: > Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit : >> On 1/4/2025 1:01 PM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote: >>> Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit : >>>> >>>> Which Linux distro offers perfect consistency? >>> >>> First, I'd say it's not the job of the distro. It's the job of the >>> Window Manager. >>> >>> Now, the first time I installed Mint for someone else, I installed a >>> few different WM to show that there is no better WM, there is only a >>> WM which suit more the user. And they have to be tested to know which >>> one to chose. I have to say it was disturbing to see they all look >>> similar and I still don't know if I like it or not. >>> >>> So, Mint is not perfect, but it's the only one I know which offer real >>> consistency. >> >> Cinnamon desktop? > > What I mean is cinnamon is the default desktop. I don't like it, it's a > matter of taste, it's of no concern here. But when I installed xfce, > lxde and enlightenment, they all looked like cinnamon and that was > disturbing. I was hopping to show different ways of using Linux, but > they were so similar, it was like showing the Window Manager is of no > consequence, they can all look the same. So, it was a consistency > brought by the distro, not by the WM. Not just WM, but DE. Even so, one can configure. Here I'm making sure Cairo Dock is stable enough for Mrs. vallor's Linux workstation: https://imgur.com/yYyJRwg (DE: xfce4) -- -v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti OS: Linux 6.12.8 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G "Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?"
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| From | pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 17:28 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software) |
| Message-ID | <vlefg0$14fs1$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #682903 |
On 2025-01-05, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote: > On 04 Jan 2025 20:45:58 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote > in <67799e06$0$12936$426a74cc@news.free.fr>: > >> Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit : >>> On 1/4/2025 1:01 PM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote: >>>> Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit : >>>>> >>>>> Which Linux distro offers perfect consistency? >>>> >>>> First, I'd say it's not the job of the distro. It's the job of the >>>> Window Manager. >>>> >>>> Now, the first time I installed Mint for someone else, I installed a >>>> few different WM to show that there is no better WM, there is only a >>>> WM which suit more the user. And they have to be tested to know which >>>> one to chose. I have to say it was disturbing to see they all look >>>> similar and I still don't know if I like it or not. >>>> >>>> So, Mint is not perfect, but it's the only one I know which offer real >>>> consistency. >>> >>> Cinnamon desktop? >> >> What I mean is cinnamon is the default desktop. I don't like it, it's a >> matter of taste, it's of no concern here. But when I installed xfce, >> lxde and enlightenment, they all looked like cinnamon and that was >> disturbing. I was hopping to show different ways of using Linux, but >> they were so similar, it was like showing the Window Manager is of no >> consequence, they can all look the same. So, it was a consistency >> brought by the distro, not by the WM. > > Not just WM, but DE. Even so, one can configure. > > Here I'm making sure Cairo Dock is stable enough for > Mrs. vallor's Linux workstation: > > https://imgur.com/yYyJRwg > > (DE: xfce4) > Looks great. -- pothead "Give a man a fish and you turn him into a Democrat for life" "Teach a man to fish and he might become a self-sufficient conservative Republican" "Don't underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up," --- Barack H. Obama
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-04 20:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <lttjp5Foh2cU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #682794 |
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 11:45:38 -0500, DFS wrote: > I agree there is significant overlap/duplication/confusion between > Win10/11 Settings and Control Panel. Either it was too much work to > migrate all the Control Panel functionality at once to Settings, or they > left Control Panel intact for a while because of the massive installed > base that expects it. That's been a problem for as long as I've used Windows. "Where the hell did they put it this time?" Sometimes it's obscure. If I'm trying to find the thumbprint of a certificate how do I do it? I think you can do it through the Control Panel although I start mmc and load the snapin. How do you find the timeout for DCOM? I think that's dcommgr but I can never remember the exact name. MS isn't very consistent. It's taskmgr but is it netmgr? Sometimes it seems to be only a name change like 'Add Remove Programs'. However the change means the icon winds up in a new place on the panel. A few time the changes did add clarity. Having two odbc32 executables, one of which actually handled 64-bit connections was brilliant. Then there's SysWOW64 for 32-bit apps and system32 for 64-bit. None of the functionality has changed for at least 25 years when NT 4 and ME came together.
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| From | vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-04 15:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ltt45kFgj1cU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #682778 |
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:29:06 -0500, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote in <vlbk3v$h0k1$1@dont-email.me>: > On 1/4/2025 10:01 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote: > > >> At first glance, there is a lot about Windows that is way more >> user-friendly than Linux. However, if you take something like Linux >> Mint and compare it to Windows 11, you'd wonder _how_ Windows 11 is >> friendlier. In Windows 11, some applications can't be removed and you >> don't get an idea why. Some Windows components aren't even listed in >> the applications so you have to wonder how to install or remove them. >> For drivers, they're installed through Windows Update but if they don't >> work right, you just have to know about the Device Manager which is >> impossible to find on your own because they're phasing out the Control >> Panel. Some programs are available through the Window Store, others >> through the web which means that some are repairable and easily >> uninstallable whereas the others aren't... and so on. For new users, >> Linux Mint is actually _much_ simpler than Windows is. > > > Right-click on the Win11 Start button. That's not how I found the Spice tools for my Win 11 Pro For Workstations guest. The "Microsoft Store" was no help either. The system is very "micro" -- and very "soft"... -- -v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti OS: Linux 6.12.8 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G "SYSTEM ERROR: press F13 to continue..."
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| From | Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-04 11:23 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vlbnac$h9ie$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #682787 |
vallor wrote this post while blinking in Morse code: > On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:29:06 -0500, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> > wrote in <vlbk3v$h0k1$1@dont-email.me>: > >> On 1/4/2025 10:01 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote: >> >>> At first glance, there is a lot about Windows that is way more >>> user-friendly than Linux. However, if you take something like Linux >>> Mint and compare it to Windows 11, you'd wonder _how_ Windows 11 is >>> friendlier. In Windows 11, some applications can't be removed and you >>> don't get an idea why. Some Windows components aren't even listed in >>> the applications so you have to wonder how to install or remove them. >>> For drivers, they're installed through Windows Update but if they don't >>> work right, you just have to know about the Device Manager which is >>> impossible to find on your own because they're phasing out the Control >>> Panel. Some programs are available through the Window Store, others >>> through the web which means that some are repairable and easily >>> uninstallable whereas the others aren't... and so on. For new users, >>> Linux Mint is actually _much_ simpler than Windows is. >> >> Right-click on the Win11 Start button. What, no middle-click? :-D > That's not how I found the Spice tools for my Win 11 Pro > For Workstations guest. > > The "Microsoft Store" was no help either. > > The system is very "micro" -- and very "soft"... -- If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think they'll hate you.
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| From | Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-04 21:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vlcbpm.vp8.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #682770 |
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote: [...] > At first glance, there is a lot about Windows that is way more > user-friendly than Linux. However, if you take something like Linux Mint > and compare it to Windows 11, you'd wonder _how_ Windows 11 is > friendlier. In Windows 11, some applications can't be removed and you > don't get an idea why. Some Windows components aren't even listed in the > applications so you have to wonder how to install or remove them. For > drivers, they're installed through Windows Update but if they don't work > right, you just have to know about the Device Manager which is > impossible to find on your own because they're phasing out the Control > Panel. Some programs are available through the Window Store, others > through the web which means that some are repairable and easily > uninstallable whereas the others aren't... and so on. For new users, > Linux Mint is actually _much_ simpler than Windows is. FWIW, IMO from a system management and system maintenace standpoint, Windows 11 (and 10 for that matter) is not user-friendly at all. Actually I would be hard-pressed to come up with anything in Windows 11 (itself, not applications/software for it) which is user-friendly. I think regular users (not 'geeks' like us) just try to run their 'applications' on it till it breaks and then give it to some acquaintance etc. or 'professional' to (try to) fix. Luckily, I have no such users in my circle of family, friends, etc.. Only one (heavy) Windows user, but he's an IT professional. Others are mostly Apple users (phones, tablets, laptops, 'desktops'), who mostly seem to get by without too many problems (or at least they don't bother me with them :-)).
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| From | snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-04 21:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1r5nn2k.7m1rupwur1c6N%snipeco.2@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #682832 |
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote: [...] > I think regular users (not 'geeks' like us) just try to run their > 'applications' on it till it breaks and then give it to some > acquaintance etc. or 'professional' to (try to) fix. > > Luckily, I have no such users in my circle of family, friends, etc.. > Only one (heavy) Windows user, but he's an IT professional. Others are > mostly Apple users (phones, tablets, laptops, 'desktops'), who mostly > seem to get by without too many problems (or at least they don't bother > me with them :-)). > [OT] That's the great thing about Apple: from the users' viewpoint it all "just works". There's not much need to get the screwdriver out at all. What's more, Apple kit interoperates within the Apple ecosystem without difficulty. So what if it's a walled garden. You get what you paid for, that's why Apple kit is worth its high price. Over the years I've migrated from DOS via Windows (3.1 to NT) to Linux (many flavours) and finally via Mac OS X to macOS. I keep instances of Linux and Windows in VMs for the occasional job where there isn't a Mac program for it, so I do have some experience. When you get tired of banging the side of the box to make things work, the reliabilty of Apple is blessed relief. [relurk] -- ^Ï^. Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS My pet rock Gordon just is.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 00:39 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vlckcq$mcpa$9@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #682834 |
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote: > [OT] That's the great thing about Apple: from the users' viewpoint it > all "just works". Until it doesn’t. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source software turns into a complete nightmare.
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 00:59 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vlclhu$ms2g$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #682862 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote: > >> [OT] That's the great thing about Apple: from the users' viewpoint it >> all "just works". > > Until it doesn’t. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something > like Homebrew? It's for power users familiar with apt or yum on linux. I doubt very much typical users have any idea what Homebrew is. > That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is > missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source > software turns into a complete nightmare. Hardly.
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| From | snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 01:52 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1r5nzsq.1tp0lc7cd9h1rN%snipeco.2@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #682869 |
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > > On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote: > > > >> [OT] That's the great thing about Apple: from the users' viewpoint it > >> all "just works". > >> > > > > Until it doesn't. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something > > like Homebrew? > > > > It's for power users familiar with apt or yum on linux. I doubt very much > typical users have any idea what Homebrew is. > Exactly so. > > > > That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is > > missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source > > software turns into a complete nightmare. > > > > Hardly. > Quite. -- ^Ï^. Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS My pet rock Gordon just is.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 03:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vlcsrd$nnc8$7@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #682869 |
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 00:59:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing >> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source software >> turns into a complete nightmare. > > Hardly. Pro tip: a denial is not a refutation.
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 16:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vleanj$13pqe$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #682902 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 00:59:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> >>> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing >>> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source software >>> turns into a complete nightmare. >> >> Hardly. > > Pro tip: a denial is not a refutation. Have been using OSS on Mac for 15+ years, including building packages from source. Far, far easier than on Windows. Given that macOS is a single platform it is sometimes even simpler than linux where there's multiple ways to achieve the same thing depending on whether it Redhat, debian or ubuntu based and type of kernel you have.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-06 00:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vlf7n7$197h8$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #682972 |
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing >> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source >> software turns into a complete nightmare. > > Have been using OSS on Mac for 15+ years, including building packages > from source. Far, far easier than on Windows. That kind of thing doesn’t scale without a package manager, though. How many hundred open-source packages were you able to build and install at once?
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-06 08:23 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vlg3uj$1hec0$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #683050 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> >>> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing >>> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source >>> software turns into a complete nightmare. >> >> Have been using OSS on Mac for 15+ years, including building packages >> from source. Far, far easier than on Windows. > > That kind of thing doesn’t scale without a package manager, though. How > many hundred open-source packages were you able to build and install at > once? My point is that most OSS software that users need are available as ready-to-use downloads. There's no ubiquitous need for linux-like package manager on macOS. Useful? Probably. Necessary? Nope. Asking users to do a "brew install firefox" is a non-starter.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-06 22:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vlhmir$1r4f4$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #683094 |
On Mon, 6 Jan 2025 08:23:47 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: >> >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing >>>> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source >>>> software turns into a complete nightmare. >>> >>> Have been using OSS on Mac for 15+ years, including building packages >>> from source. Far, far easier than on Windows. >> >> That kind of thing doesn’t scale without a package manager, though. How >> many hundred open-source packages were you able to build and install at >> once? > > My point is that most OSS software that users need are available as > ready-to-use downloads. But you did say you were “including building packages from source”. How complex were those builds you managed? Does each download include all its dependencies?
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