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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #680832 > unrolled thread

The problem with not owning the software

Started byCrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
First post2024-12-19 20:03 -0500
Last post2024-12-25 16:19 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 255 — 29 participants

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Contents

  The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-19 20:03 -0500
    Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 16:52 +0800
      Re: The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-21 07:26 -0500
        Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 23:15 +0800
          Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-23 23:24 +0000
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 11:48 +0800
              Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-25 06:54 +0000
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-25 20:39 +0000
                Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-27 22:23 +0800
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-28 07:04 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 16:53 +0800
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-28 19:34 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 15:07 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 15:12 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 17:11 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 17:17 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 13:16 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 14:24 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 15:39 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 16:06 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 17:10 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 17:39 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 18:58 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 19:10 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 19:21 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:55 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 18:02 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 18:35 -0600
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 19:51 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 20:00 -0600
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-29 22:34 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 03:48 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 19:55 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 20:15 -0600
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 21:49 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Jack Sovalot <hee-cawkforme@jack.sovalot> - 2024-12-30 04:06 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 08:31 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-30 19:12 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:53 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 21:06 -0500
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-31 11:01 -0500
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 19:00 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 19:52 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 01:46 +0000
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 20:52 -0500
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-01 17:02 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-01-18 11:54 -0600
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 18:46 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:51 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 09:34 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 00:53 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:42 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:09 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:44 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:05 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:14 +0100
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 03:57 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:25 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 10:09 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 00:32 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-29 01:43 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 20:52 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 07:05 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 06:58 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 21:17 +0100
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-29 20:41 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:31 +0100
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-30 10:56 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 03:24 +0100
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 13:50 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-31 13:18 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:14 +0000
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-01 07:44 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:22 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 19:36 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:09 +0000
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> - 2024-12-31 19:25 +0000
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 11:46 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 20:27 +0100
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:16 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:57 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 18:50 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-30 02:30 +0100
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:55 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 07:05 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 01:00 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 16:15 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-29 16:39 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:00 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 19:08 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:30 -0600
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 07:00 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-30 12:53 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:52 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-30 13:01 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:56 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:25 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:57 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 16:45 +0000
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:31 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-01 14:50 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 22:03 +0000
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:41 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:33 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-02 00:15 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 05:33 +0000
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:03 +0000
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:32 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-04 04:50 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 08:52 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:42 +0000
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 01:05 +0000
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:59 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 10:01 -0500
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 10:29 -0500
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 10:38 -0500
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 11:45 -0500
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 12:00 -0500
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 18:01 +0000
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 13:59 -0500
                                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 20:45 +0000
                                                                  The Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-01-05 03:05 +0000
                                                                    Re: The Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software) pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-01-05 17:28 +0000
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-04 20:25 +0000
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-01-04 15:58 +0000
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-04 11:23 -0500
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-04 21:13 +0000
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-04 21:50 +0000
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:39 +0000
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 00:59 +0000
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 01:52 +0000
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 03:04 +0000
                                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:07 +0000
                                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:22 +0000
                                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 08:23 +0000
                                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 22:47 +0000
                                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 00:12 +0000
                                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-07 02:10 +0000
                                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-07 02:31 +0000
                                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 14:12 +0000
                                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 02:26 +0000
                                                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 13:28 +0000
                                                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 21:28 +0000
                                                            [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 01:50 +0000
                                                              Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 03:01 +0000
                                                                Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 03:25 +0000
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 06:47 +0000
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 08:20 -0500
                                                                      Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-08 12:21 -0500
                                                                        Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-08 14:10 -0500
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 21:18 -0500
                                                              [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 02:34 +0000
                                                                Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 22:08 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 22:34 -0500
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-05 07:19 -0500
                                                                      Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-05 10:39 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 03:39 +0000
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 08:13 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-05 08:52 -0600
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:32 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 20:53 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 21:26 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 06:38 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 07:17 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2024-12-29 13:19 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 08:48 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-12-29 08:02 -0600
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 09:08 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:32 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:46 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 20:56 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 17:03 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 23:32 -0600
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-05 11:05 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 13:29 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-05 13:53 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-05 15:08 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-06 10:17 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 10:28 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-06 11:26 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-06 12:34 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 12:40 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-06 14:23 -0500
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-06 16:27 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 13:21 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> - 2024-12-29 07:41 -0700
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 19:05 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 20:50 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:05 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-03 09:09 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-03 20:33 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-01-03 21:00 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-03 23:28 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 21:17 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:57 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 22:25 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:19 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-04 04:49 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 01:10 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:52 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 15:55 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:20 +0000
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 08:11 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-06 16:16 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 22:46 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-11 11:36 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 23:20 -0600
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 18:58 -0500
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:59 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 02:18 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 08:41 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-31 13:08 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 13:54 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:26 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-01 07:43 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 10:32 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:37 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-04 19:43 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:47 +0000
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 18:58 +0000
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:25 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 19:32 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-01 01:43 +0000
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 11:53 +0800
        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 10:08 -0500
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 20:32 +0100
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 21:34 -0500
            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 16:47 +0000
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:29 +0000
                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 21:59 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-02 18:01 -0500
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 11:26 +0000
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-03 08:55 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 14:33 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 19:32 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:46 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-05 15:46 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:17 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-06 14:57 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:47 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:14 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:09 +0000
        Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-30 19:02 -0500
          Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2024-12-31 10:10 +0000
            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 08:50 -0500
            Re: The problem with not owning the software DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-31 12:09 -0500
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-04 10:31 +0000
    Re: The problem with not owning the software bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-12-25 16:19 -0500

Page 7 of 13 — ← Prev page 1 … 5 6 [7] 8 9 … 13  Next page →


#682794

FromDFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca>
Date2025-01-04 11:45 -0500
Message-ID<vlbojg$homt$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682783
On 1/4/2025 10:38 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2025-01-04 10:29, DFS wrote:
>> On 1/4/2025 10:01 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>
>>> At first glance, there is a lot about Windows that is way more user- 
>>> friendly than Linux. However, if you take something like Linux Mint 
>>> and compare it to Windows 11, you'd wonder _how_ Windows 11 is 
>>> friendlier. In Windows 11, some applications can't be removed and you 
>>> don't get an idea why. Some Windows components aren't even listed in 
>>> the applications so you have to wonder how to install or remove them. 
>>> For drivers, they're installed through Windows Update but if they 
>>> don't work right, you just have to know about the Device Manager 
>>> which is impossible to find on your own because they're phasing out 
>>> the Control Panel. Some programs are available through the Window 
>>> Store, others through the web which means that some are repairable 
>>> and easily uninstallable whereas the others aren't... and so on. For 
>>> new users, Linux Mint is actually _much_ simpler than Windows is.
>>
>>
>> Right-click on the Win11 Start button.
> 
> You missed the point: there is inconsistency. 


Which Linux distro offers perfect consistency?

I agree there is significant overlap/duplication/confusion between 
Win10/11 Settings and Control Panel.  Either it was too much work to 
migrate all the Control Panel functionality at once to Settings, or they 
left Control Panel intact for a while because of the massive installed 
base that expects it.



> Why would you update through Windows Update but manage through Device Manager?

That's how it's done in ALL operating systems, right?



> Why would 
> Device Manager be listed by right-clicking the Start button (by the way, 
> how would anyone know it's there?

How does anyone know to right-click on a desktop or taskbar or icon or 
file?  You just do it as part of OS usage and discovery - since Windows 95.


> ) but not in the Settings? 

It's right there:  Settings | Bluetooth and Devices

(which is an odd combo)



> People are likely to be more lost in Windows than in Linux Mint.

Maybe.  Maybe not.

I haven't picked apart a GuhNoo distro in years, but it's always 
entertaining to find glaring distro bugs, even in 2025.

Apparently GuhNoo devs get so distracted by their long blue hair and 
uncomfortable ball-tucking that they can't focus on the unpleasant task 
of testing.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682800

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2025-01-04 12:00 -0500
Message-ID<MOdeP.125832$Uup4.83532@fx10.iad>
In reply to#682794
On 2025-01-04 11:45, DFS wrote:

>>> Right-click on the Win11 Start button.
>>
>> You missed the point: there is inconsistency. 
> 
> 
> Which Linux distro offers perfect consistency?

Honestly? Linux Mint and the KDE spin of Fedora, from my experience at 
least. I would add Nobara there since I used it for a bit.

> I agree there is significant overlap/duplication/confusion between 
> Win10/11 Settings and Control Panel.  Either it was too much work to 
> migrate all the Control Panel functionality at once to Settings, or they 
> left Control Panel intact for a while because of the massive installed 
> base that expects it.

I would imagine that it's the latter. However, the point here is not 
that the Control Panel shouldn't be there; it's that the fact that it is 
still is shows an inconsistency on the part of Microsoft Windows. They 
could have migrated that to something new since it is apparently in 
their interest to do so, but they haven't yet. As such, any new user of 
Windows is going to wonder why some things are using a modern interface 
and others are using an archaic one. They will also wonder why they need 
to go into this archaic interface to do basic things which should be 
possible in the modern one such as set up a printer or configure a more 
complicated network connection.

>> Why would you update through Windows Update but manage through Device 
>> Manager?
> 
> That's how it's done in ALL operating systems, right?

No, with Linux the device is either detected or it isn't. The best 
possible driver for the hardware, if it's detected, is automatically in 
the kernel except when it can't be because it is proprietary like the 
NVIDIA driver. As such, there is little to no need to play with drivers 
unlike Windows. With Windows, the latest audio driver might break 
something which prompts you to restore the previous one. However, 
Microsoft routinely updates that driver regardless of the fact that you 
need it so you quickly need to be acquainted with the Control Panel and 
the reversion process there. It was also the case for the dreaded 
MediaTek MT7921 wireless chip: some drivers were better than others so 
you had to try them all until you got the best one for your setting. In 
Linux, the best possible one was bundled by default but it didn't change 
the fact that the hardware was just pure garbage from the very beginning 
and should be switched at the first opportunity.

< snip >

> Maybe.  Maybe not.
> 
> I haven't picked apart a GuhNoo distro in years, but it's always 
> entertaining to find glaring distro bugs, even in 2025.
> 
> Apparently GuhNoo devs get so distracted by their long blue hair and 
> uncomfortable ball-tucking that they can't focus on the unpleasant task 
> of testing.

The blue-haired losers are developing every one of the operating systems 
nowadays. As Lunduke pointed out in his latest video, the only operating 
systems you can install which don't have a shred of woke are OpenBSD and 
the ones that existed before woke became a thing. Are you interested in 
using MS-DOS or OS/2 Warp 3? That's part of why I am now down to using 
the best distribution I've come across: Fedora. I refuse to give them a 
cent of my money though.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682804

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2025-01-04 18:01 +0000
Message-ID<6779778d$0$28051$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
In reply to#682794
Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>
> Which Linux distro offers perfect consistency?

First, I'd say it's not the job of the distro. It's the job of the
Window Manager.

Now, the first time I installed Mint for someone else, I installed a few
different WM to show that there is no better WM, there is only a WM
which suit more the user. And they have to be tested to know which one
to chose. I have to say it was disturbing to see they all look similar
and I still don't know if I like it or not.

So, Mint is not perfect, but it's the only one I know which offer real
consistency.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682815

FromDFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca>
Date2025-01-04 13:59 -0500
Message-ID<vlc0em$j5oo$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682804
On 1/4/2025 1:01 PM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>>
>> Which Linux distro offers perfect consistency?
> 
> First, I'd say it's not the job of the distro. It's the job of the
> Window Manager.
> 
> Now, the first time I installed Mint for someone else, I installed a few
> different WM to show that there is no better WM, there is only a WM
> which suit more the user. And they have to be tested to know which one
> to chose. I have to say it was disturbing to see they all look similar
> and I still don't know if I like it or not.
> 
> So, Mint is not perfect, but it's the only one I know which offer real
> consistency.

Cinnamon desktop?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682825

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2025-01-04 20:45 +0000
Message-ID<67799e06$0$12936$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
In reply to#682815
Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
> On 1/4/2025 1:01 PM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>> Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>>>
>>> Which Linux distro offers perfect consistency?
>> 
>> First, I'd say it's not the job of the distro. It's the job of the
>> Window Manager.
>> 
>> Now, the first time I installed Mint for someone else, I installed a few
>> different WM to show that there is no better WM, there is only a WM
>> which suit more the user. And they have to be tested to know which one
>> to chose. I have to say it was disturbing to see they all look similar
>> and I still don't know if I like it or not.
>> 
>> So, Mint is not perfect, but it's the only one I know which offer real
>> consistency.
>
> Cinnamon desktop?

What I mean is cinnamon is the default desktop. I don't like it, it's a
matter of taste, it's of no concern here. But when I installed xfce,
lxde and enlightenment, they all looked like cinnamon and that was
disturbing. I was hopping to show different ways of using Linux, but
they were so similar, it was like showing the Window Manager is of no
consequence, they can all look the same. So, it was a consistency
brought by the distro, not by the WM.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682903 — The Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software)

Fromvallor <vallor@cultnix.org>
Date2025-01-05 03:05 +0000
SubjectThe Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software)
Message-ID<ltub8cFrn5nU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#682825
On 04 Jan 2025 20:45:58 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote
in <67799e06$0$12936$426a74cc@news.free.fr>:

> Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>> On 1/4/2025 1:01 PM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>> Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Which Linux distro offers perfect consistency?
>>> 
>>> First, I'd say it's not the job of the distro. It's the job of the
>>> Window Manager.
>>> 
>>> Now, the first time I installed Mint for someone else, I installed a
>>> few different WM to show that there is no better WM, there is only a
>>> WM which suit more the user. And they have to be tested to know which
>>> one to chose. I have to say it was disturbing to see they all look
>>> similar and I still don't know if I like it or not.
>>> 
>>> So, Mint is not perfect, but it's the only one I know which offer real
>>> consistency.
>>
>> Cinnamon desktop?
> 
> What I mean is cinnamon is the default desktop. I don't like it, it's a
> matter of taste, it's of no concern here. But when I installed xfce,
> lxde and enlightenment, they all looked like cinnamon and that was
> disturbing. I was hopping to show different ways of using Linux, but
> they were so similar, it was like showing the Window Manager is of no
> consequence, they can all look the same. So, it was a consistency
> brought by the distro, not by the WM.

Not just WM, but DE.  Even so, one can configure.

Here I'm making sure Cairo Dock is stable enough for
Mrs. vallor's Linux workstation:

   https://imgur.com/yYyJRwg

(DE: xfce4)

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.12.8 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
   "Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682984 — Re: The Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software)

Frompothead <pothead@snakebite.com>
Date2025-01-05 17:28 +0000
SubjectRe: The Desktop Environment (was: Re: The problem with not owning the software)
Message-ID<vlefg0$14fs1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682903
On 2025-01-05, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
> On 04 Jan 2025 20:45:58 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote
> in <67799e06$0$12936$426a74cc@news.free.fr>:
>
>> Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>>> On 1/4/2025 1:01 PM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>>> Le 04-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>> Which Linux distro offers perfect consistency?
>>>> 
>>>> First, I'd say it's not the job of the distro. It's the job of the
>>>> Window Manager.
>>>> 
>>>> Now, the first time I installed Mint for someone else, I installed a
>>>> few different WM to show that there is no better WM, there is only a
>>>> WM which suit more the user. And they have to be tested to know which
>>>> one to chose. I have to say it was disturbing to see they all look
>>>> similar and I still don't know if I like it or not.
>>>> 
>>>> So, Mint is not perfect, but it's the only one I know which offer real
>>>> consistency.
>>>
>>> Cinnamon desktop?
>> 
>> What I mean is cinnamon is the default desktop. I don't like it, it's a
>> matter of taste, it's of no concern here. But when I installed xfce,
>> lxde and enlightenment, they all looked like cinnamon and that was
>> disturbing. I was hopping to show different ways of using Linux, but
>> they were so similar, it was like showing the Window Manager is of no
>> consequence, they can all look the same. So, it was a consistency
>> brought by the distro, not by the WM.
>
> Not just WM, but DE.  Even so, one can configure.
>
> Here I'm making sure Cairo Dock is stable enough for
> Mrs. vallor's Linux workstation:
>
>    https://imgur.com/yYyJRwg
>
> (DE: xfce4)
>
Looks great.


-- 
pothead

"Give a man a fish and you turn him into a Democrat for life"
"Teach a man to fish and he might become a self-sufficient conservative Republican"
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up,"
---  Barack H. Obama

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682823

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-01-04 20:25 +0000
Message-ID<lttjp5Foh2cU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#682794
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 11:45:38 -0500, DFS wrote:

> I agree there is significant overlap/duplication/confusion between
> Win10/11 Settings and Control Panel.  Either it was too much work to
> migrate all the Control Panel functionality at once to Settings, or they
> left Control Panel intact for a while because of the massive installed
> base that expects it.

That's been a problem for as long as I've used Windows. "Where the hell 
did they put it this time?"  Sometimes it's obscure. If I'm trying to find 
the thumbprint of a certificate how do I do it? I think you can do it 
through the Control Panel although I start mmc and load the snapin. How do 
you find the timeout for DCOM? I think that's dcommgr but I can never 
remember the exact name. MS isn't very consistent. It's taskmgr but is it 
netmgr?

Sometimes it seems to be only a name change like 'Add Remove Programs'. 
However the change means the icon winds up in a new place on the panel. A 
few time the changes did add clarity. Having two odbc32 executables, one 
of which actually handled 64-bit connections was brilliant. Then there's 
SysWOW64 for 32-bit apps and system32 for 64-bit.

None of the functionality has changed for at least 25 years when NT 4 and 
ME came together. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682787

Fromvallor <vallor@cultnix.org>
Date2025-01-04 15:58 +0000
Message-ID<ltt45kFgj1cU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#682778
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:29:06 -0500, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca>
wrote in <vlbk3v$h0k1$1@dont-email.me>:

> On 1/4/2025 10:01 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> 
> 
>> At first glance, there is a lot about Windows that is way more
>> user-friendly than Linux. However, if you take something like Linux
>> Mint and compare it to Windows 11, you'd wonder _how_ Windows 11 is
>> friendlier. In Windows 11, some applications can't be removed and you
>> don't get an idea why. Some Windows components aren't even listed in
>> the applications so you have to wonder how to install or remove them.
>> For drivers, they're installed through Windows Update but if they don't
>> work right, you just have to know about the Device Manager which is
>> impossible to find on your own because they're phasing out the Control
>> Panel. Some programs are available through the Window Store, others
>> through the web which means that some are repairable and easily
>> uninstallable whereas the others aren't... and so on. For new users,
>> Linux Mint is actually _much_ simpler than Windows is.
> 
> 
> Right-click on the Win11 Start button.

That's not how I found the Spice tools for my Win 11 Pro
For Workstations guest.

The "Microsoft Store" was no help either.

The system is very "micro" -- and very "soft"...

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.12.8 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
   "SYSTEM ERROR: press F13 to continue..."

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682791

FromChris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
Date2025-01-04 11:23 -0500
Message-ID<vlbnac$h9ie$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682787
vallor wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:29:06 -0500, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca>
> wrote in <vlbk3v$h0k1$1@dont-email.me>:
>
>> On 1/4/2025 10:01 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> 
>>> At first glance, there is a lot about Windows that is way more
>>> user-friendly than Linux. However, if you take something like Linux
>>> Mint and compare it to Windows 11, you'd wonder _how_ Windows 11 is
>>> friendlier. In Windows 11, some applications can't be removed and you
>>> don't get an idea why. Some Windows components aren't even listed in
>>> the applications so you have to wonder how to install or remove them.
>>> For drivers, they're installed through Windows Update but if they don't
>>> work right, you just have to know about the Device Manager which is
>>> impossible to find on your own because they're phasing out the Control
>>> Panel. Some programs are available through the Window Store, others
>>> through the web which means that some are repairable and easily
>>> uninstallable whereas the others aren't... and so on. For new users,
>>> Linux Mint is actually _much_ simpler than Windows is.
>> 
>> Right-click on the Win11 Start button.

What, no middle-click?  :-D

> That's not how I found the Spice tools for my Win 11 Pro
> For Workstations guest.
>
> The "Microsoft Store" was no help either.
>
> The system is very "micro" -- and very "soft"...

-- 
If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you
really make them think they'll hate you.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#682832

FromFrank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
Date2025-01-04 21:13 +0000
Message-ID<vlcbpm.vp8.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
In reply to#682770
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
[...]

> At first glance, there is a lot about Windows that is way more 
> user-friendly than Linux. However, if you take something like Linux Mint 
> and compare it to Windows 11, you'd wonder _how_ Windows 11 is 
> friendlier. In Windows 11, some applications can't be removed and you 
> don't get an idea why. Some Windows components aren't even listed in the 
> applications so you have to wonder how to install or remove them. For 
> drivers, they're installed through Windows Update but if they don't work 
> right, you just have to know about the Device Manager which is 
> impossible to find on your own because they're phasing out the Control 
> Panel. Some programs are available through the Window Store, others 
> through the web which means that some are repairable and easily 
> uninstallable whereas the others aren't... and so on. For new users, 
> Linux Mint is actually _much_ simpler than Windows is.

  FWIW, IMO from a system management and system maintenace standpoint,
Windows 11 (and 10 for that matter) is not user-friendly at all.

  Actually I would be hard-pressed to come up with anything in Windows
11 (itself, not applications/software for it) which is user-friendly.

  I think regular users (not 'geeks' like us) just try to run their
'applications' on it till it breaks and then give it to some
acquaintance etc. or 'professional' to (try to) fix.

  Luckily, I have no such users in my circle of family, friends, etc..
Only one (heavy) Windows user, but he's an IT professional. Others are
mostly Apple users (phones, tablets, laptops, 'desktops'), who mostly
seem to get by without too many problems (or at least they don't bother
me with them :-)).

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#682834

Fromsnipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe)
Date2025-01-04 21:50 +0000
Message-ID<1r5nn2k.7m1rupwur1c6N%snipeco.2@gmail.com>
In reply to#682832
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

[...]

>   I think regular users (not 'geeks' like us) just try to run their
> 'applications' on it till it breaks and then give it to some
> acquaintance etc. or 'professional' to (try to) fix.
> 
>   Luckily, I have no such users in my circle of family, friends, etc..
> Only one (heavy) Windows user, but he's an IT professional. Others are
> mostly Apple users (phones, tablets, laptops, 'desktops'), who mostly
> seem to get by without too many problems (or at least they don't bother
> me with them :-)).
>

[OT] That's the great thing about Apple:  from the users' viewpoint it
all "just works".  There's not much need to get the screwdriver out at
all.  What's more, Apple kit interoperates within the Apple ecosystem
without difficulty.  So what if it's a walled garden.

You get what you paid for, that's why Apple kit is worth its high price.

Over the years I've migrated from DOS via Windows (3.1 to NT) to Linux
(many flavours) and finally via Mac OS X to macOS.  I keep instances of
Linux and Windows in VMs for the occasional job where there isn't a Mac
program for it, so I do have some experience.  When you get tired of
banging the side of the box to make things work, the reliabilty of Apple
is blessed relief.

[relurk]

-- 
^Ï^.    Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS         My pet rock Gordon just is.

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#682862

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-05 00:39 +0000
Message-ID<vlckcq$mcpa$9@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682834
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:

> [OT] That's the great thing about Apple:  from the users' viewpoint it
> all "just works".

Until it doesn’t. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something 
like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is 
missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source 
software turns into a complete nightmare.

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#682869

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-01-05 00:59 +0000
Message-ID<vlclhu$ms2g$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682862
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
> 
>> [OT] That's the great thing about Apple:  from the users' viewpoint it
>> all "just works".
> 
> Until it doesn’t. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something 
> like Homebrew? 

It's for power users familiar with apt or yum on linux. I doubt very much
typical users have any idea what Homebrew is. 

> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is 
> missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source 
> software turns into a complete nightmare.

Hardly. 

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#682879

Fromsnipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe)
Date2025-01-05 01:52 +0000
Message-ID<1r5nzsq.1tp0lc7cd9h1rN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>
In reply to#682869
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> > On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
> > 
> >> [OT] That's the great thing about Apple:  from the users' viewpoint it
> >> all "just works".
> >>
> > 
> > Until it doesn't. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something
> > like Homebrew? 
> >
>
> It's for power users familiar with apt or yum on linux. I doubt very much
> typical users have any idea what Homebrew is. 
> 

Exactly so.

> >
> > That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is 
> > missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source
> > software turns into a complete nightmare.
> >
>
> Hardly. 
>

Quite.

-- 
^Ï^.    Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS         My pet rock Gordon just is.

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#682902

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-05 03:04 +0000
Message-ID<vlcsrd$nnc8$7@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682869
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 00:59:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing
>> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source software
>> turns into a complete nightmare.
> 
> Hardly.

Pro tip: a denial is not a refutation.

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#682972

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-01-05 16:07 +0000
Message-ID<vleanj$13pqe$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682902
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 00:59:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> 
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing
>>> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source software
>>> turns into a complete nightmare.
>> 
>> Hardly.
> 
> Pro tip: a denial is not a refutation.

Have been using OSS on Mac for 15+ years, including building packages from
source. Far, far easier than on Windows. 

Given that macOS is a single platform it is sometimes even simpler than
linux where there's multiple ways to achieve the same thing depending on
whether it Redhat, debian or ubuntu based and type of kernel you have. 

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#683050

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-06 00:22 +0000
Message-ID<vlf7n7$197h8$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#682972
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing
>> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source
>> software turns into a complete nightmare.
> 
> Have been using OSS on Mac for 15+ years, including building packages
> from source. Far, far easier than on Windows. 

That kind of thing doesn’t scale without a package manager, though. How 
many hundred open-source packages were you able to build and install at 
once?

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#683094

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-01-06 08:23 +0000
Message-ID<vlg3uj$1hec0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#683050
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> 
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing
>>> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source
>>> software turns into a complete nightmare.
>> 
>> Have been using OSS on Mac for 15+ years, including building packages
>> from source. Far, far easier than on Windows. 
> 
> That kind of thing doesn’t scale without a package manager, though. How 
> many hundred open-source packages were you able to build and install at 
> once?

My point is that most OSS software that users need are available as
ready-to-use downloads. There's no ubiquitous need for linux-like package
manager on macOS. Useful? Probably. Necessary? Nope. 

Asking users to do a "brew install firefox" is a non-starter. 

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#683199

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-01-06 22:47 +0000
Message-ID<vlhmir$1r4f4$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#683094
On Mon, 6 Jan 2025 08:23:47 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>> 
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing
>>>> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source
>>>> software turns into a complete nightmare.
>>> 
>>> Have been using OSS on Mac for 15+ years, including building packages
>>> from source. Far, far easier than on Windows.
>> 
>> That kind of thing doesn’t scale without a package manager, though. How
>> many hundred open-source packages were you able to build and install at
>> once?
> 
> My point is that most OSS software that users need are available as
> ready-to-use downloads.

But you did say you were “including building packages from source”. How 
complex were those builds you managed? Does each download include all its 
dependencies?

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