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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #681006 > unrolled thread
| Started by | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2024-12-21 19:02 +0000 |
| Last post | 2024-12-28 02:27 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 109 — 16 participants |
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For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-21 19:02 +0000
Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-21 14:42 -0500
Re: For The Gamers Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2024-12-21 20:43 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2024-12-21 22:09 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2024-12-21 22:20 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 17:25 -0500
Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2024-12-22 10:05 +0000
Re: For The Gamers DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-21 23:08 -0500
Re: For The Gamers Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 19:20 -0600
Re: For The Gamers DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2024-12-21 22:45 -0500
Re: For The Gamers Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-22 08:30 -0500
Re: For The Gamers DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-07 22:05 -0500
Re: For The Gamers Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 22:21 -0500
Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-08 09:12 -0500
Re: For The Gamers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-09 07:17 -0600
Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-09 10:39 -0500
Re: For The Gamers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-11 08:15 -0600
Re: For The Gamers Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> - 2025-01-11 18:34 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-11 19:31 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> - 2025-01-11 19:51 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-11 21:35 +0000
Re: For The Gamers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-11 17:47 -0600
Re: For The Gamers pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-01-12 01:16 +0000
Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-12 01:36 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-12 11:12 +0000
Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-12 20:39 +0000
Re: For The Gamers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-11 19:53 -0600
Re: For The Gamers Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-01-12 13:35 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-12 15:58 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> - 2025-01-12 16:21 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-01-12 09:08 +0000
Re: For The Gamers DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-12 09:48 -0500
Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-12 16:09 +0000
Re: For The Gamers DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-11 16:44 -0500
Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-11 13:40 -0500
Re: For The Gamers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-11 16:50 -0600
Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-01-11 17:58 -0500
Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-12 01:51 +0000
Re: For The Gamers -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-12 06:31 -0500
Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-11 21:04 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-12 07:35 -0500
Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-12 13:05 +0000
Re: For The Gamers DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-01-12 09:43 -0500
Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-01-12 16:01 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-12 11:36 -0500
Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-12 20:32 +0000
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 22:36 +0000
Re: For The Gamers snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-12-21 22:48 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 18:05 -0500
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-22 05:25 +0000
Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-22 06:06 +0000
Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-22 07:39 -0500
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 06:30 +0000
Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-23 08:37 +0000
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 09:17 +0000
Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-23 11:55 -0500
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 09:44 +0000
Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-24 19:14 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-25 06:53 -0500
Re: For The Gamers Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-27 17:35 -0500
Re: For The Gamers Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-27 17:54 -0500
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 02:42 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-27 22:18 -0500
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 07:15 +0000
Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-21 18:18 -0500
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-22 05:30 +0000
Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-22 06:03 +0000
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-22 08:33 +0000
Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-22 09:39 +0000
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 06:00 +0000
Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-22 07:22 -0500
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 06:21 +0000
Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-23 11:51 -0500
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 09:39 +0000
Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-24 19:00 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-27 17:51 -0500
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 02:41 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-27 22:05 -0500
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 07:14 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 08:28 -0500
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 07:45 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 07:27 -0500
Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:23 +0000
Re: For The Gamers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-12-21 18:50 -0600
Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-22 07:14 -0500
Re: For The Gamers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-12-22 10:40 -0600
Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-22 11:54 -0500
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 06:12 +0000
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 06:11 +0000
Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-23 11:43 -0500
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 06:10 +0000
Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-23 11:42 -0500
Re: For The Gamers -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-23 06:29 -0500
Re: For The Gamers Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-23 07:51 -0500
Re: For The Gamers -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-23 19:18 -0500
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 22:31 +0000
Re: For The Gamers vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-12-21 23:35 +0000
Re: For The Gamers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-12-21 18:52 -0600
Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2024-12-22 10:09 +0000
Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-22 07:42 -0500
Re: For The Gamers Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2024-12-22 12:57 +0000
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 06:04 +0000
Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-23 08:28 +0000
Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-23 12:01 -0500
Re: For The Gamers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-23 11:38 -0500
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 09:31 +0000
Re: For The Gamers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-24 19:04 +0000
Re: For The Gamers Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-27 17:47 -0500
Re: For The Gamers RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 02:27 +0000
Page 3 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 Next page →
| From | Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-12 07:35 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vm0cv4$14m78$9@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #683773 |
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code: > On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 08:15:13 -0600, chrisv wrote: > >> But I had my safe, and tolerable, niche in electronics manufacturing, >> and I was too cowardly to risk the career change. > > My career started in the machine tool industry, which at the time was > mostly based on relay logic. As microcontrollers entered the mix, drawing > ladder diagrams and wiring up ice cube relays was replaced by programming. > Logic is logic. > > With my first exposure to programming being FORTRAN IV and punch cards I > wasn't interested in programming. When it got to the point where I could > wire-wrap a board on the kitchen table and program it the field became > interesting. I went into physics because I thought I would become bored with programming. The I transferred to hearing science and ended up writing FORTRAN code to drive stimulus/response boxes and noise generators on the PDP-11. Also wrote a pretty decent HP pen-plotter program in FORTRAN. Around that time I took a course in C programming on the PDP-11, using TECO as the text editor. As time went on programming slowly took over and most of my work life involved writing code. Today I am retired, but still writing a lot of code (and doing a lot of debugging, too :-D). C++, a little C as well. -- If any man wishes to be humbled and mortified, let him become president of Harvard. -- Edward Holyoke
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| From | Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-12 13:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <6783be2a$0$536$426a74cc@news.free.fr> |
| In reply to | #683825 |
Le 12-01-2025, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> a écrit : > > I went into physics because I thought I would become bored with programming. I can understand one can become bored with programming in some company doing always the same stuff. But in a general way, I don't understand how one can get bored with programming. And that's one thing DFS will never be able to contest about the superiority of FOSS over proprietary software. With proprietary software, to get chalenges in programming, you have to get hired by the company to work on it first. With FOSS, there are so many lines of codes in so many programming languages waiting for you to improve them that you can have fun as long as you want. -- Si vous avez du temps à perdre : https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
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| From | DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-12 09:43 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vm0kef$16f0e$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #683829 |
On 1/12/2025 8:05 AM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote: > Le 12-01-2025, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> a écrit : >> >> I went into physics because I thought I would become bored with programming. > > I can understand one can become bored with programming in some company > doing always the same stuff. But in a general way, I don't understand > how one can get bored with programming. And that's one thing DFS will > never be able to contest about the superiority of FOSS over proprietary > software. What superiority are you referring to? > With proprietary software, to get chalenges in programming, > you have to get hired by the company to work on it first. With FOSS, > there are so many lines of codes in so many programming languages > waiting for you to improve them that you can have fun as long as you > want. That's why it's called hobbyware.
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| From | Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-12 16:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <6783e76c$0$11456$426a74cc@news.free.fr> |
| In reply to | #683840 |
Le 12-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit : > On 1/12/2025 8:05 AM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote: >> Le 12-01-2025, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> a écrit : >>> >>> I went into physics because I thought I would become bored with programming. >> >> I can understand one can become bored with programming in some company >> doing always the same stuff. But in a general way, I don't understand >> how one can get bored with programming. And that's one thing DFS will >> never be able to contest about the superiority of FOSS over proprietary >> software. > > What superiority are you referring to? That's what I explained just after. >> With proprietary software, to get chalenges in programming, >> you have to get hired by the company to work on it first. With FOSS, >> there are so many lines of codes in so many programming languages >> waiting for you to improve them that you can have fun as long as you >> want. > > That's why it's called hobbyware. There is no incompatibility between having fun and contributing to great things. You can choose what you want with FOSS, you have to be hired to do the same thing in a company. -- Si vous avez du temps à perdre : https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
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| From | Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-12 11:36 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vm0r21$17d1j$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #683845 |
Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
> Le 12-01-2025, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>> On 1/12/2025 8:05 AM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>> Le 12-01-2025, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> I went into physics because I thought I would become bored with programming.
>>>
>>> I can understand one can become bored with programming in some company
>>> doing always the same stuff. But in a general way, I don't understand
>>> how one can get bored with programming. And that's one thing DFS will
>>> never be able to contest about the superiority of FOSS over proprietary
>>> software.
>>
>> What superiority are you referring to?
>
> That's what I explained just after.
>
>>> With proprietary software, to get chalenges in programming,
>>> you have to get hired by the company to work on it first. With FOSS,
>>> there are so many lines of codes in so many programming languages
>>> waiting for you to improve them that you can have fun as long as you
>>> want.
>>
>> That's why it's called hobbyware.
>
> There is no incompatibility between having fun and contributing to great
> things. You can choose what you want with FOSS, you have to be hired to
> do the same thing in a company.
And there are many FOSS projects that are not hobbyware, and that are
professionally run:
- Linux kernel
- Linux distros Red Hat / Fedory, Debian / Ubuntu, Arch....
- LibreOffice
- Systemd
- Ansible
- Git
- GNU C/C++ and the whole suite of tools
- Clang
- Python
- . . .
--
I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do will encounter
quick retribution. All will be suspended, and I don't care if it wrecks
the National League for five years. This is the United States of America
and one citizen has as much right to play as another.
-- Ford Frick, National League President, reacting to a
threatened strike by some Cardinal players in 1947 if
Jackie Robinson took the field against St. Louis. The
Cardinals backed down and played.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-12 20:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <luin74F7krmU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #683829 |
On 12 Jan 2025 13:05:46 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote: > I can understand one can become bored with programming in some company > doing always the same stuff. But in a general way, I don't understand > how one can get bored with programming. I didn't get bored with programming when I took a few years off but I started to question if crouching behind a keyboard was a proper job for a man. The start of my career in the machine tools industry was very physical. There's something about designing the control circuity for a 200 ton molding press and seeing it in action that is rewarding. It was also hot, dirty, noisy, and I've been soaked by hydraulic fluid more than once when a line blew. As time went on it became more and more abstract. I've sort of reverted to my roots with microcontrollers interacting directly with physical sensors, servos, H-bridges, and so forth. The IoT is getting back to reality.
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| From | RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-21 22:36 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vk7fta$8e67$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #681007 |
On 2024-12-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > Le 2024-12-21 à 14:02, rbowman a écrit : >> https://www.wired.com/story/2024-was-the-year-the-bottom-fell-out-of-the- >> games-industry/ >> >> I'd seen a few articles but never paid much attention. RPI put a lot of >> effort into their video game degree program and thought the spinoffs might >> revitalize the upstate NY economy. I wonder if they missed the boat or if >> the industry will spring back? >> >> Linux: who really cares if games run on Linux? It's a serious OS for >> serious people. > > If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and > academic institutions would be willing to run it, and invest in the > people necessary to troubleshoot it. Instead, both have realized that > its free cost does not result in savings of any kind because the > problems it causes often can't be resolved by even the most gifted of > technical staff. That's why they use Windows, even with the security issues. The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less and less necessity to use Windows. It will take a while though. -- “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
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| From | snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-21 22:48 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1r4xtzi.z3s0si1gizblkN%snipeco.2@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #681020 |
RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: > The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and > businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage with the > computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia that's hard to > overcome. But you'll note that, for development purposes, Microsoft is now > including Linux in Windows. There's a reason for that. And, as software > moves to the "rental" phase and more and more of the applications move to > the "Cloud", there will be less and less necessity to use Windows. > No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft. -- ^Ï^. Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS My pet rock Gordon hears distant drums.
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| From | Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-21 18:05 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <trhemjlmj34p532otbfnsekhgtea14c3g2@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #681023 |
snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote: >RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: > >> The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and >> businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage with the >> computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia that's hard to >> overcome. But you'll note that, for development purposes, Microsoft is now >> including Linux in Windows. There's a reason for that. And, as software >> moves to the "rental" phase and more and more of the applications move to >> the "Cloud", there will be less and less necessity to use Windows. > >No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft. People will boot Win11 (or 10) if they need certain apps, it is inclusive of M$ Office, but there's no question that Linux better supports anything less than the high end, when you look at what it really takes to run it. Microsoft just says "well, virtual memory will handle the excesses on smaller systems". -- Joel W. Crump Amendment XIV Section 1. [...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
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| From | RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-22 05:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vk87rl$g4du$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #681023 |
On 2024-12-21, Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote: > RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: > >> The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and >> businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage with the >> computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia that's hard to >> overcome. But you'll note that, for development purposes, Microsoft is now >> including Linux in Windows. There's a reason for that. And, as software >> moves to the "rental" phase and more and more of the applications move to >> the "Cloud", there will be less and less necessity to use Windows. >> > > No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft. I wouldn't bet on it. -- “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-22 06:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <lspoitFpd5U3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #681045 |
On Sun, 22 Dec 2024 05:25:09 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote: > On 2024-12-21, Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote: >> RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and >>> businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage >>> with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia >>> that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development >>> purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a >>> reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more >>> and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less >>> and less necessity to use Windows. >>> >>> >> No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft. > > I wouldn't bet on it. Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at night.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-22 07:39 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <VLT9P.29791$aTp4.27279@fx09.iad> |
| In reply to | #681049 |
Le 2024-12-22 à 01:06, rbowman a écrit : > On Sun, 22 Dec 2024 05:25:09 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote: > >> On 2024-12-21, Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote: >>> RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and >>>> businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage >>>> with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia >>>> that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development >>>> purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a >>>> reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more >>>> and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less >>>> and less necessity to use Windows. >>>> >>>> >>> No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft. >> >> I wouldn't bet on it. > > Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of > Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at > night. It's the same argument as the one that was made as to why IBM won over superior platforms in the 1980s. At the very least, anyone who suggests Microsoft can't be reprimanded because the boss knows that they will be able to find a ton of people who can use the well-known software as well as a ton of techs who can troubleshoot it. Even if they can't afford that staff, there is lots of help online for most problems if they search for it. That doesn't mean that the operating system is necessarily better; it simply means that businesses take a lot less risk in choosing one over the other. I've always mentioned that I believe that in fields like education and finance, everyone would be better off using open-source though. For finance, you need a robust kernel and a filesystem which resists bit-rot to keep those records. There shouldn't be a need to back up data daily for fear that your records will corrupt (even though it is still clearly smart to do so). Similarly, in education, if the public system desires removing all financial barriers to learning, doesn't it make sense to run an operating system which can be deployed to even the most affordable hardware at no performance penalty and prioritize the use of software which can be downloaded at no charge? I've actually asked this many times in the past and the answer has always been that maintaining the Linux servers is more costly and time-consuming to the technicians. I imagine that it is because the slightest change in configuration causes chaos across the board. -- CrudeSausage
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| From | RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-23 06:30 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vkb01r$12pp6$9@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #681066 |
On 2024-12-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > Le 2024-12-22 à 01:06, rbowman a écrit : >> On Sun, 22 Dec 2024 05:25:09 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote: >> >>> On 2024-12-21, Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and >>>>> businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage >>>>> with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia >>>>> that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development >>>>> purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a >>>>> reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more >>>>> and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less >>>>> and less necessity to use Windows. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft. >>> >>> I wouldn't bet on it. >> >> Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of >> Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at >> night. > > It's the same argument as the one that was made as to why IBM won over > superior platforms in the 1980s. At the very least, anyone who suggests > Microsoft can't be reprimanded because the boss knows that they will be > able to find a ton of people who can use the well-known software as well > as a ton of techs who can troubleshoot it. Even if they can't afford > that staff, there is lots of help online for most problems if they > search for it. That doesn't mean that the operating system is > necessarily better; it simply means that businesses take a lot less risk > in choosing one over the other. > > I've always mentioned that I believe that in fields like education and > finance, everyone would be better off using open-source though. For > finance, you need a robust kernel and a filesystem which resists bit-rot > to keep those records. There shouldn't be a need to back up data daily > for fear that your records will corrupt (even though it is still clearly > smart to do so). Similarly, in education, if the public system desires > removing all financial barriers to learning, doesn't it make sense to > run an operating system which can be deployed to even the most > affordable hardware at no performance penalty and prioritize the use of > software which can be downloaded at no charge? I've actually asked this > many times in the past and the answer has always been that maintaining > the Linux servers is more costly and time-consuming to the technicians. > I imagine that it is because the slightest change in configuration > causes chaos across the board. First off, what happened to all those people who kept suggesting IBM was a "no brainer" when it sank? Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop? Windows might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most corporations run SQL under Linux servers for their important records. You've heard of Oracle, right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.) -- “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-23 08:37 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <lsslpoFfb5rU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #681111 |
On Mon, 23 Dec 2024 06:30:19 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote: > Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop? > Windows might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most > corporations run SQL under Linux servers for their important records. > You've heard of Oracle, > right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database > company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.) PosgresSQL is making inroads. Oracle licenses are not cheap and support is an extra cost option; Postgres is free. Most of our clients use SQL Server. Not as robust as Oracle or expensive although it's not cheap. The only RFP that required Oracle was from the DOI. Nothing is too good when you're spending the taxpayers' money.
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| From | RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-24 09:17 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vkdu6n$1p1nc$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #681117 |
On 2024-12-23, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Mon, 23 Dec 2024 06:30:19 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote: > >> Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop? >> Windows might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most >> corporations run SQL under Linux servers for their important records. >> You've heard of Oracle, >> right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database >> company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.) > > PosgresSQL is making inroads. Oracle licenses are not cheap and support is > an extra cost option; Postgres is free. Most of our clients use SQL > Server. Not as robust as Oracle or expensive although it's not cheap. The > only RFP that required Oracle was from the DOI. Nothing is too good when > you're spending the taxpayers' money. I'm not a fan of Oracle's boss, so any substitute for it sounds great to me. -- “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-23 11:55 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <MBgaP.47689$EYNf.31309@fx11.iad> |
| In reply to | #681111 |
Le 2024-12-23 à 01:30, RonB a écrit : > On 2024-12-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >> Le 2024-12-22 à 01:06, rbowman a écrit : >>> On Sun, 22 Dec 2024 05:25:09 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote: >>> >>>> On 2024-12-21, Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and >>>>>> businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage >>>>>> with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia >>>>>> that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development >>>>>> purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a >>>>>> reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more >>>>>> and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less >>>>>> and less necessity to use Windows. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft. >>>> >>>> I wouldn't bet on it. >>> >>> Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of >>> Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at >>> night. >> >> It's the same argument as the one that was made as to why IBM won over >> superior platforms in the 1980s. At the very least, anyone who suggests >> Microsoft can't be reprimanded because the boss knows that they will be >> able to find a ton of people who can use the well-known software as well >> as a ton of techs who can troubleshoot it. Even if they can't afford >> that staff, there is lots of help online for most problems if they >> search for it. That doesn't mean that the operating system is >> necessarily better; it simply means that businesses take a lot less risk >> in choosing one over the other. >> >> I've always mentioned that I believe that in fields like education and >> finance, everyone would be better off using open-source though. For >> finance, you need a robust kernel and a filesystem which resists bit-rot >> to keep those records. There shouldn't be a need to back up data daily >> for fear that your records will corrupt (even though it is still clearly >> smart to do so). Similarly, in education, if the public system desires >> removing all financial barriers to learning, doesn't it make sense to >> run an operating system which can be deployed to even the most >> affordable hardware at no performance penalty and prioritize the use of >> software which can be downloaded at no charge? I've actually asked this >> many times in the past and the answer has always been that maintaining >> the Linux servers is more costly and time-consuming to the technicians. >> I imagine that it is because the slightest change in configuration >> causes chaos across the board. > > First off, what happened to all those people who kept suggesting IBM was a > "no brainer" when it sank? By the time IBM sank, all of the standards they have introduced except for PS/2 (for mice and keyboards) had already been abandoned. Third-parties were already making better PCs than IBM was so suggesting that company was no longer necessary. However, even if people chose to suggest IBM anyway, they would have gotten ThinkPads which were spectacular computers. Only the IBM hard disks became notoriously awful by the end. > Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop? Windows > might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most corporations run > SQL under Linux servers for their important records. You've heard of Oracle, > right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database > company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.) I'm becoming increasingly aware of how ubiquitous Linux is. Clearly, it has made inroads in areas where failure is not an option. I'm not against using it again, especially if sticking to Windows introduces new issues like the fTPM stuttering I mentioned before (I don't think Linux necessarily resolves this issue as much as offers ways to circumvent it which are not available to Windows users). -- CrudeSausage
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| From | RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-24 09:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vkdvqq$1p1nc$8@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #681134 |
On 2024-12-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > Le 2024-12-23 à 01:30, RonB a écrit : >> On 2024-12-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>> Le 2024-12-22 à 01:06, rbowman a écrit : >>>> On Sun, 22 Dec 2024 05:25:09 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 2024-12-21, Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The reason they use Windows is because it runs Microsoft Office (and >>>>>>> businesses are "married" to this crap) and Microsoft's has leverage >>>>>>> with the computer manufacturers. Monopolies have a lot of inertia >>>>>>> that's hard to overcome. But you'll note that, for development >>>>>>> purposes, Microsoft is now including Linux in Windows. There's a >>>>>>> reason for that. And, as software moves to the "rental" phase and more >>>>>>> and more of the applications move to the "Cloud", there will be less >>>>>>> and less necessity to use Windows. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> No purchasing manager was ever fired for specifying Microsoft. >>>>> >>>>> I wouldn't bet on it. >>>> >>>> Leaving out the cloud I have to agree. Microsoft and the availability of >>>> Microsoft Certified Whatevers makes pointy headed bosses sleep better at >>>> night. >>> >>> It's the same argument as the one that was made as to why IBM won over >>> superior platforms in the 1980s. At the very least, anyone who suggests >>> Microsoft can't be reprimanded because the boss knows that they will be >>> able to find a ton of people who can use the well-known software as well >>> as a ton of techs who can troubleshoot it. Even if they can't afford >>> that staff, there is lots of help online for most problems if they >>> search for it. That doesn't mean that the operating system is >>> necessarily better; it simply means that businesses take a lot less risk >>> in choosing one over the other. >>> >>> I've always mentioned that I believe that in fields like education and >>> finance, everyone would be better off using open-source though. For >>> finance, you need a robust kernel and a filesystem which resists bit-rot >>> to keep those records. There shouldn't be a need to back up data daily >>> for fear that your records will corrupt (even though it is still clearly >>> smart to do so). Similarly, in education, if the public system desires >>> removing all financial barriers to learning, doesn't it make sense to >>> run an operating system which can be deployed to even the most >>> affordable hardware at no performance penalty and prioritize the use of >>> software which can be downloaded at no charge? I've actually asked this >>> many times in the past and the answer has always been that maintaining >>> the Linux servers is more costly and time-consuming to the technicians. >>> I imagine that it is because the slightest change in configuration >>> causes chaos across the board. >> >> First off, what happened to all those people who kept suggesting IBM was a >> "no brainer" when it sank? > > By the time IBM sank, all of the standards they have introduced except > for PS/2 (for mice and keyboards) had already been abandoned. > Third-parties were already making better PCs than IBM was so suggesting > that company was no longer necessary. However, even if people chose to > suggest IBM anyway, they would have gotten ThinkPads which were > spectacular computers. Only the IBM hard disks became notoriously awful > by the end. I just brought up IBM because they used to say the same thing about them. "You can't go wrong suggesting IBM." >> Second, do you really think important databases run on MicroSlop? Windows >> might be the front-end, but I'm willing to bet that most corporations run >> SQL under Linux servers for their important records. You've heard of Oracle, >> right? (Not endorsing them, but they're the world's largest database >> company, I believe. They have their own "flavor" of Red Hat.) > > I'm becoming increasingly aware of how ubiquitous Linux is. Clearly, it > has made inroads in areas where failure is not an option. I'm not > against using it again, especially if sticking to Windows introduces new > issues like the fTPM stuttering I mentioned before (I don't think Linux > necessarily resolves this issue as much as offers ways to circumvent it > which are not available to Windows users). I'm getting to the point where I'm not so much a Linux advocate. When someone says they like Windows better, I just kind of shrug my shoulders and say, "Okay." The only that bothers me is when I'm told that Linux is hard to use, or requires constant tweaking. That's simply not the case for me. Never has been (at least from 2007 when I started using it as my main OS). There were challenges in the 90s and early 2000s. (Which is partly why I didn't stick with it until about 2007.) -- “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-24 19:14 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <lt0fhiF36j3U10@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #681185 |
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 09:44:59 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote: > I'm getting to the point where I'm not so much a Linux advocate. When > someone says they like Windows better, I just kind of shrug my shoulders > and say, "Okay." The only that bothers me is when I'm told that Linux is > hard to use, or requires constant tweaking. That's simply not the case > for me. Never has been (at least from 2007 when I started using it as my > main OS). There were challenges in the 90s and early 2000s. (Which is > partly why I didn't stick with it until about 2007.) As I've mentioned I use both Windows and various Linux distros with very much the same workload on both OSs. Unless you persistently screw yourself like FuddNut, I don't see any difference in usability. Sure, you can get into Linux esoterica but it isn't a necessity like it was 25 years ago. I built an application from a tarball last week but that was the exception. It was rtl_433 a program that uses a RTL_SDR dongle to pick up the 433 MHz packets sent by TPMS sensors, among other odd tihngs that use the unlicensed frequencies.
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| From | Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-25 06:53 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vkgrng$2coib$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #681215 |
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code: > On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 09:44:59 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote: > >> I'm getting to the point where I'm not so much a Linux advocate. When >> someone says they like Windows better, I just kind of shrug my shoulders >> and say, "Okay." The only that bothers me is when I'm told that Linux is >> hard to use, or requires constant tweaking. That's simply not the case >> for me. Never has been (at least from 2007 when I started using it as my >> main OS). There were challenges in the 90s and early 2000s. (Which is >> partly why I didn't stick with it until about 2007.) > > As I've mentioned I use both Windows and various Linux distros with very > much the same workload on both OSs. Unless you persistently screw yourself > like FuddNut, I don't see any difference in usability. Sure, you can get > into Linux esoterica but it isn't a necessity like it was 25 years ago. I see a big difference in usability, because I can completely customize Linux to my workflow. Windows? No so much. Merry Christmas! -- Being owned by someone used to be called slavery -- now it's called commitment.
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| From | Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-27 17:35 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <FYFbP.176513$oR74.99685@fx16.iad> |
| In reply to | #681228 |
On 2024-12-25 06:53, Chris Ahlstrom wrote: > rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code: > >> On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 09:44:59 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote: >> >>> I'm getting to the point where I'm not so much a Linux advocate. When >>> someone says they like Windows better, I just kind of shrug my shoulders >>> and say, "Okay." The only that bothers me is when I'm told that Linux is >>> hard to use, or requires constant tweaking. That's simply not the case >>> for me. Never has been (at least from 2007 when I started using it as my >>> main OS). There were challenges in the 90s and early 2000s. (Which is >>> partly why I didn't stick with it until about 2007.) >> >> As I've mentioned I use both Windows and various Linux distros with very >> much the same workload on both OSs. Unless you persistently screw yourself >> like FuddNut, I don't see any difference in usability. Sure, you can get >> into Linux esoterica but it isn't a necessity like it was 25 years ago. > > I see a big difference in usability, because I can completely customize Linux > to my workflow. Windows? No so much. > > Merry Christmas! Unfortunately, Windows is indeed difficult to personalize, just like MacOS. -- Andrzej (Andre) Matuch Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
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