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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #462221 > unrolled thread
| Started by | DFS <nospam@nospam.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2018-08-10 09:15 -0400 |
| Last post | 2018-08-11 01:57 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 244 — 14 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.advocacy
Trump vs shitv DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-08-10 09:15 -0400
Re: Trump vs shitv owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-08-10 14:11 +0000
Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-10 09:18 -0500
Re: Trump the liar owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-08-10 14:45 +0000
Re: Trump the liar SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-10 14:59 +0000
Re: Trump the liar owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-08-10 15:10 +0000
Re: Trump the liar SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-10 15:46 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-10 08:24 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 08:43 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-10 10:17 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-10 08:21 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 08:28 -0700
Re: Trump the liar owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-08-10 15:29 +0000
Re: Trump the liar SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-10 15:48 +0000
Re: Trump the liar owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-08-10 16:47 +0000
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-10 12:46 -0500
Re: Trump the liar owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-08-10 18:11 +0000
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-10 13:24 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 11:35 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 11:51 -0700
Re: Trump the liar owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-08-10 18:53 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 12:22 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-10 16:01 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-10 16:02 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-14 07:39 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 06:52 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 08:15 -0700
Re: Trump the liar vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-08-14 15:21 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 09:26 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 19:32 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Helinka Svoboda <helinkasvoboda@protestant.com> - 2018-08-15 00:35 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 08:44 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-14 12:07 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 10:21 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-14 13:19 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 12:29 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 19:38 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 12:54 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-16 08:53 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 07:18 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 08:18 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 08:52 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 08:52 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 08:54 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 10:56 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 11:14 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Chuck Chop <"butwaitthere is more"@ginsu.org> - 2018-08-16 21:24 -0400
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 19:11 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Chuck Chop <"butwaitthere is more"@ginsu.org> - 2018-08-16 22:38 -0400
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 10:55 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Andrzej Matuch <a.m@vt.ca> - 2018-08-17 12:47 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 06:16 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-17 08:51 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 09:06 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 19:32 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 19:32 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 19:32 +0000
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-14 11:14 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 12:25 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 19:38 +0000
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-14 14:00 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 14:28 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 15:20 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 15:46 -0700
Re: Trump the liar vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-08-15 00:24 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 17:52 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 18:22 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 18:40 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 19:04 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 19:43 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 19:16 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-14 19:48 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 20:09 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 20:23 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-15 03:28 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 03:47 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 06:22 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 08:13 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 08:56 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-15 09:44 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-15 11:20 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 11:48 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 12:19 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-15 13:17 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 13:54 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 14:07 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-15 14:28 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-16 04:11 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 04:27 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 06:29 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 06:47 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 08:46 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 08:56 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-16 09:35 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 09:55 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 10:52 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 12:20 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-16 13:09 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 13:30 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 13:35 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 13:40 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 14:04 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 14:22 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-16 15:05 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 15:26 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 16:17 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 16:30 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 16:44 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 17:14 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-17 03:57 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-17 07:36 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 07:38 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-17 09:03 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-20 07:03 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 07:11 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 08:32 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-20 10:13 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 10:34 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 10:48 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-20 13:21 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:29 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-20 15:22 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Helinka Svoboda <helinkasvoboda@protestant.com> - 2018-08-20 22:30 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 15:43 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 16:34 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Helinka Svoboda <helinkasvoboda@protestant.com> - 2018-08-20 23:46 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Chuck Chop <"butwaitthere is more"@ginsu.org> - 2018-08-20 20:03 -0400
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 17:21 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Chuck Chop <"butwaitthere is more"@ginsu.org> - 2018-08-20 20:33 -0400
Re: Trump the liar Helinka Svoboda <helinkasvoboda@protestant.com> - 2018-08-21 00:35 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 18:47 -0700
Re: Trump the liar SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-21 11:43 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 05:01 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 08:14 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 08:23 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:25 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:20 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-20 18:48 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Helinka Svoboda <helinkasvoboda@protestant.com> - 2018-08-21 02:29 +0000
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-21 03:33 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 03:58 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 04:30 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Helinka Svoboda <helinkasvoboda@protestant.com> - 2018-08-21 14:08 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Chuck Chop <"butwaitthere is more"@ginsu.org> - 2018-08-21 10:11 -0400
Re: Trump the liar Helinka Svoboda <helinkasvoboda@protestant.com> - 2018-08-21 14:14 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 07:37 -0700
Re: Trump the liar SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-21 14:30 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 08:03 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:18 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:46 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 20:03 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 20:05 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 20:18 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-21 03:56 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 08:03 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:35 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:45 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:52 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 20:01 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 19:58 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 20:11 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 19:45 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Chuck Chop <"butwaitthere is more"@ginsu.org> - 2018-08-20 22:54 -0400
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:49 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 20:14 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 10:40 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 10:50 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 10:51 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 11:18 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 10:36 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 11:03 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Andrzej Matuch <a.m@vt.ca> - 2018-08-17 12:59 +0000
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-17 10:42 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 09:25 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-17 09:35 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 09:53 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Andrzej Matuch <a.m@vt.ca> - 2018-08-17 16:31 +0000
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-20 07:15 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 07:18 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 07:25 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-20 09:32 -0500
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-20 10:25 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-20 13:00 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 11:24 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 16:52 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-21 08:41 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 11:50 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-20 13:43 -0700
Re: Trump the liar SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-20 21:32 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Helinka Svoboda <helinkasvoboda@protestant.com> - 2018-08-20 21:47 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 15:12 -0700
Re: Trump the liar SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-20 22:49 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 15:59 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 16:14 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:40 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:56 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-21 08:08 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:37 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 20:12 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-21 08:06 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:38 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-21 14:26 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 14:36 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-22 07:08 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-22 06:50 -0700
Re: Trump the liar DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-08-22 10:21 -0400
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-22 11:33 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-17 08:52 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 11:00 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 11:30 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 13:51 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-15 14:14 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 14:25 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-15 14:07 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-15 11:56 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 08:53 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-15 09:49 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-15 09:36 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 20:04 -0700
People who overdosed on drugs, and died. Jeff-Relf.Me @. - 2018-08-14 16:54 -0700
Enertainment comes first and foremost. Jeff-Relf.Me @. - 2018-08-16 16:59 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 19:32 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 12:45 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 13:10 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-14 14:46 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 15:22 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 20:06 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2018-08-15 04:21 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 04:49 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-10 16:05 -0700
Re: Trump the liar SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-10 18:11 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 11:20 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-10 16:04 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-10 16:06 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-10 10:52 -0500
Re: Trump the liar owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-08-10 16:04 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 09:30 -0700
Re: Trump vs shitv Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 07:41 -0700
Re: Trump vs shitv SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-10 14:52 +0000
Re: Trump vs shitv SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-10 14:50 +0000
Re: Trump vs shitv Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 07:56 -0700
Re: Trump vs shitv Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-10 08:24 -0700
Trump makes people think, and it hurts their heads. Jeff-Relf.Me @. - 2018-08-11 01:22 -0700
Re: Trump makes people think, and it hurts their heads. Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-11 01:57 -0700
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| From | Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-21 08:38 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <fu2pvhFe92rU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #464378 |
On 8/21/18 6:06 AM, chrisv wrote: > lying asshole "-hh" wrote: > >> (snipped, unread) > > By the way, asshole, Windows pre-installed is very cheap, and *zero* > money is saved, by wiping Windows and installing Linux. > > Your claims of GNU/Linux having a "substantial financial advantage > over Microsoft" is just another of your *lies*. > So you do not think running Linux and the programs that generally run on Linux is substantially cheaper than running Windows? What? That is one of the key benefits of desktop Linux and you tear it down. Wow. -- Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. <https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>
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| From | -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-21 14:26 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <5d8edc89-6f56-4529-b0df-19ff1b1a70fc@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #464378 |
On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 9:06:29 AM UTC-4, chrisv wrote: > lying asshole "-hh" wrote: > > > (snipped, unread) > > By the way, asshole, Windows pre-installed is very cheap, and *zero* > money is saved, by wiping Windows and installing Linux. Well, it is known that a PC from a big box vendor is cheaper than the same from a small box vendor (or DIY) and that this is because the former has manufacturing economies of scale advantages. Case in point, this principle as previously stated in COLA: "The economics of a small producer are much different than they are for a large producer. The small producer is not going to get the volume pricing from Micro$oft as is the large producer. (Some may pay almost as much as you or I would, for an OEM copy.) The small producer is not going to attract the bundleware vendors (and their money) as much, if at all. Also, the small producers may not have the automated systems for installing Windows that the large producers have. Some will do it by hand, just like you and I do, incuring more labor costs." <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.linux.advocacy/EL771mufluI/lucjK22CPjgJ> Similarly, and also previously mentioned on COLA, PCs in India are sold with Linux because they're cheaper than the same PC sold with Windows, because there's less PC vendor scale variant to offset the Windows license cost and because there's a market for these Linux boxes: the PC vendors know that they can sell fairly risk free piracy enabling boxes to customers who are going to wipe the Linux to install a pirated Windows copy: "PC vendors are adding fuel to fire by shipping PCs with Linux pre-installed on them. This serves as a simple solution to buy a branded PC at a lower cost. People buy this PC, goes home and installs Windows from pirated CDs which cost them around Rs.100, thats a little more than $2. So now you have a branded PC running Windows sans the price....63% of all PCs shipping with pirated OS..." <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/abhinaba/2004/11/16/software-piracy-in-india/> In the West, the big PC vendors don't sell Linux boxes as piracy enablers because Microsoft has more legal pull in the USA, and there's not a critical mass of real Linux market customers to make it a viable business segment for them. > Your claims of GNU/Linux having a "substantial financial advantage > over Microsoft" is just another of your *lies*. Good thing then that no credible poster has ever pointed out that from a cost standpoint, Linux is free. You know, something like this: "Someone should tell the fscking assholes that GNU/Linux is Free software." <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.linux.advocacy/EL771mufluI/lpRaIdZxSVsJ> -hh
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| From | Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-21 14:36 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <c3bf2458-3a5c-4467-809d-022b3479a137@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #464469 |
On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 2:26:35 PM UTC-7, -hh wrote: > On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 9:06:29 AM UTC-4, chrisv wrote: > > lying asshole "-hh" wrote: > > > > > (snipped, unread) > > > > By the way, asshole, Windows pre-installed is very cheap, and *zero* > > money is saved, by wiping Windows and installing Linux. > > Well, it is known that a PC from a big box vendor is cheaper than > the same from a small box vendor (or DIY) and that this is because > the former has manufacturing economies of scale advantages. > > Case in point, this principle as previously stated in COLA: > > "The economics of a small producer are much different than they are for > a large producer. The small producer is not going to get the volume > pricing from Micro$oft as is the large producer. (Some may pay almost > as much as you or I would, for an OEM copy.) The small producer is > not going to attract the bundleware vendors (and their money) as much, > if at all. Also, the small producers may not have the automated > systems for installing Windows that the large producers have. Some > will do it by hand, just like you and I do, incuring more labor costs." > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.linux.advocacy/EL771mufluI/lucjK22CPjgJ> > > Similarly, and also previously mentioned on COLA, PCs in India > are sold with Linux because they're cheaper than the same PC sold > with Windows, because there's less PC vendor scale variant to > offset the Windows license cost and because there's a market for > these Linux boxes: the PC vendors know that they can sell fairly > risk free piracy enabling boxes to customers who are going to wipe > the Linux to install a pirated Windows copy: > > "PC vendors are adding fuel to fire by shipping PCs with Linux > pre-installed on them. This serves as a simple solution to buy > a branded PC at a lower cost. People buy this PC, goes home and > installs Windows from pirated CDs which cost them around Rs.100, > thats a little more than $2. So now you have a branded PC running > Windows sans the price....63% of all PCs shipping with pirated OS..." > > <https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/abhinaba/2004/11/16/software-piracy-in-india/> > > In the West, the big PC vendors don't sell Linux boxes as piracy > enablers because Microsoft has more legal pull in the USA, and > there's not a critical mass of real Linux market customers to make > it a viable business segment for them. > > > > Your claims of GNU/Linux having a "substantial financial advantage > > over Microsoft" is just another of your *lies*. > > Good thing then that no credible poster has ever pointed out that > from a cost standpoint, Linux is free. You know, something like this: > > "Someone should tell the fscking assholes that GNU/Linux is Free software." > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.linux.advocacy/EL771mufluI/lpRaIdZxSVsJ> > > > -hh Perhaps you use it wrong. Do you not understand the use of VPN? I am working on an idea which will blow what Linux has away. It was ronb who got caught using hundreds of accounts for years, and these are 'people' who come out of the blue immediately into threads where he was getting his ass handed to him... over and over for years. Nobody is being controlled by RMS. -- This broke the Internet https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.c/KDQrv8appR8 Jonas Eklundh Communication AB
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| From | chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-22 07:08 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <76kqndhm1c070np2t0vbmb1lu5a67ub170@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #464469 |
lying asshole "-hh" wrote: > chrisv wrote: >> >> By the way, asshole, Windows pre-installed is very cheap, and *zero* >> money is saved, by wiping Windows and installing Linux. > >Well, it is known that a PC from a big box vendor is cheaper than >the same from a small box vendor (or DIY) and that this is because >the former has manufacturing economies of scale advantages. Making Windows machines as cheap as anything that can be bought. So, why did you lie about GNU/Linux having a "substantial financial advantage over Microsoft", -highhorse? Why can't you freedom-hating assholes just admit the obvious, that the desktop OS market is FUBAR, -highhorse? > (snipped, unread) -- "Well then by your own metric, Microsoft Windows is the best OS, Mac OS X is the second best OS ... and all of Linux sucks." - lying asshole "-hh", lying shamelessly
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| From | Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-22 06:50 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <fu580rF31s3U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #464572 |
On 8/22/18 5:08 AM, chrisv wrote: > lying asshole "-hh" wrote: > >> chrisv wrote: >>> >>> By the way, asshole, Windows pre-installed is very cheap, and *zero* >>> money is saved, by wiping Windows and installing Linux. >> >> Well, it is known that a PC from a big box vendor is cheaper than >> the same from a small box vendor (or DIY) and that this is because >> the former has manufacturing economies of scale advantages. > > Making Windows machines as cheap as anything that can be bought. > > So, why did you lie about GNU/Linux having a "substantial financial > advantage over Microsoft", -highhorse? How much have YOU paid for Linux software? If you look at the price of the OS and common software, Linux is less expensive (at least to acquire). This is one of the key benefits of Linux... why reject that? > Why can't you freedom-hating assholes just admit the obvious, that the > desktop OS market is FUBAR, -highhorse? People making choices you do not want them to is not an issue with the market. >> (snipped, unread) > -- Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. <https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>
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| From | DFS <nospam@nospam.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-22 10:21 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <6gefD.203694$r04.26876@fx08.iad> |
| In reply to | #464572 |
On 8/22/2018 8:08 AM, shit("1800+ plonks and counting!")v wrote:
> Why can't you freedom-hating assholes just admit the obvious, that the
> desktop OS market is FUBAR, -highhorse?
Is the smartphone OS market (lopsided Android marketshare) "FUBAR", turd?
Is the white school glue market (completely dominated by Elmer's for
decades) "FUBAR"?
Is the aerosol string market (owned by Silly String for decades) "FUBAR"?
No reply? Of course not - you can't support this FUBAR stupidity.
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| From | -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-22 11:33 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <73afb7eb-2719-4bbc-a4bc-55e77c3e43c9@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #464572 |
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 8:08:05 AM UTC-4, chrisv wrote: > lying asshole "-hh" wrote: > > chrisv wrote: > >> > >> By the way, asshole, Windows pre-installed is very cheap, and > >> *zero* money is saved, by wiping Windows and installing Linux. > > > >Well, it is known that a PC from a big box vendor is cheaper than > >the same from a small box vendor (or DIY) and that this is because > >the former has manufacturing economies of scale advantages. > > Making Windows machines as cheap as anything that can be bought. Misses the point, because a Windows OS license always has some non-zero expense (Microsoft revenue), the same vendor selling both has an internal expense differential. Granted, they may be greedy and not pass along their lower expenses on the Linux side, but there is evidence in marketplaces where Linux is more popular than in the USA that they do pass this along as a lower price. > So, why did you lie about GNU/Linux having a "substantial financial > advantage over Microsoft", -highhorse? It isn't a lie to note that Linux advocates frequently mention its lower costs. Case in point: "Someone should tell the fscking assholes that GNU/Linux is Free software." <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.linux.advocacy/EL771mufluI/lpRaIdZxSVsJ> > Why can't you freedom-hating assholes just admit the obvious, that the > desktop OS market is FUBAR, -highhorse? The market is no more FUBAR'ed than the poster who keeps on trying to do a "snipped, unread" denial for where his own words have been quoted back to him. -hh
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| From | Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-17 08:52 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <fto99pF1s00U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #463502 |
On 8/17/18 5:59 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote: > On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 13:09:33 -0700, -hh wrote: > > < snipped > > > Do you _ever_ post anything even remotely related to Linux? > Oh. The. Irony. -- Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. <https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>
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| From | Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-16 11:00 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <ftlse6FfislU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #463333 |
On 8/16/18 9:35 AM, -hh wrote: > On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 11:47:00 AM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote: >> On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 5:11:12 AM UTC-6, -hh wrote: >>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 5:07:59 PM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote: >>>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 2:17:17 PM UTC-6, -hh wrote: >>>> >>>>> And yet that still doesn't provide a clear "yes" or "no". >>>> >>>> I've already answered this absurd question. >>> >>> Cite, please. >> >> Learn to read. > > That's plainly not a cite. It is his effort to move goal posts. >> But then, you don't even understand the implications of your >> own argument so its pointless to ask that of you. I'll lay it >> out in the hopes you get someone to explain it to you. Here's >> what your 'argument' boils down to... > > Considering that I've done little more than to challenge your > claims instead of making my own policy position, this should be rich. He repeatedly works to speak for others. It is amazing to watch. >> Because I'm saying I'd be willing to gamble on building a wall in >> favor over the current fencing we now have, you've alleged that I'm >> 'bigoted' against those south of the border; > > Incorrect. Right: his efforts to speak for you are absurd. > What I've noted is that you've claimed to be willing > to build a wall, but you've avoided any sort of objective metrics > for the benefit (return on investment) for that expenditure. The > bigotry part is simply noting the parallel of your position to > the Alt-Right and Trump political rhetoric, which is trying to > claimed an immigration crisis to advance their White Supremacist agenda. Well stated. Better than I could. Thanks. >> ...this, as based on your >> idea that I'm hiding this alleged 'bigotry' behind what you consider >> to be a bogus, drug epidemic argument when my real 'problem' is, to >> hear you tell it, that I just don't like the skin color of these >> people. >> >> Obvious question: >> What is the difference in *intent* between having our current fencing >> and building a wall? >> >> Obvious answer: >> Not a damn thing because, as we all know, "both" are designed to keep >> people out. > > Incorrect, because the costs are not the same. Nor is the implied > capability intent...which is implied because a performance claim has > not been made. Nor are the symbolic values. >> In essence, you're arguing to completely open the border, no fence, >> no wall... > > False. Not just false, utterly absurd. He worked to push that same idiocy onto me. It is him parroting Trump and crowd, with no sign he understands what it even means. >> ...and those who don't want either are all 'bigots'. > > No. The bigots are the people who want a wall even without knowing > if it will materially change the immigration situation at all. And > this applies in Spades when they try to also lump in drugs also > without any data or capability performance metrics. And keep in mind the pattern of Carroll backing Slimer's open bigotry. But Carroll is the victim in his own mind. >> How would >> the reader know this is the case? If it was about drugs, money, etc. >> there is *no* need to play the race card, none. > > Except for your lack of any call for a Wall for the US-Canada border. Yeah, I keep noting that here and in other conversations. > And no, you can't just try to hand-waive this away by claiming that > illegal border crossings there aren't a problem because you don't > have the data...particularly since you'll never have any arrests in > a region that you have zero law enforcement in. > > In the dark, you only ever find lost quarters under the street light. :) -- Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. <https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>
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| From | Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-16 11:30 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <b40633b2-7bfc-4f93-94b1-f47403fbbd27@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #463349 |
On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 11:00:41 AM UTC-7, Snit wrote: > On 8/16/18 9:35 AM, -hh wrote: > > On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 11:47:00 AM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote: > >> On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 5:11:12 AM UTC-6, -hh wrote: > >>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 5:07:59 PM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote: > >>>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 2:17:17 PM UTC-6, -hh wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> And yet that still doesn't provide a clear "yes" or "no". > >>>> > >>>> I've already answered this absurd question. > >>> > >>> Cite, please. > >> > >> Learn to read. > > > > That's plainly not a cite. > > It is his effort to move goal posts. > > >> But then, you don't even understand the implications of your > >> own argument so its pointless to ask that of you. I'll lay it > >> out in the hopes you get someone to explain it to you. Here's > >> what your 'argument' boils down to... > > > > Considering that I've done little more than to challenge your > > claims instead of making my own policy position, this should be rich. > > He repeatedly works to speak for others. It is amazing to watch. > > >> Because I'm saying I'd be willing to gamble on building a wall in > >> favor over the current fencing we now have, you've alleged that I'm > >> 'bigoted' against those south of the border; > > > > Incorrect. > > Right: his efforts to speak for you are absurd. > > > What I've noted is that you've claimed to be willing > > to build a wall, but you've avoided any sort of objective metrics > > for the benefit (return on investment) for that expenditure. The > > bigotry part is simply noting the parallel of your position to > > the Alt-Right and Trump political rhetoric, which is trying to > > claimed an immigration crisis to advance their White Supremacist agenda. > > Well stated. Better than I could. Thanks. > > >> ...this, as based on your > >> idea that I'm hiding this alleged 'bigotry' behind what you consider > >> to be a bogus, drug epidemic argument when my real 'problem' is, to > >> hear you tell it, that I just don't like the skin color of these > >> people. > >> > >> Obvious question: > >> What is the difference in *intent* between having our current fencing > >> and building a wall? > >> > >> Obvious answer: > >> Not a damn thing because, as we all know, "both" are designed to keep > >> people out. > > > > Incorrect, because the costs are not the same. Nor is the implied > > capability intent...which is implied because a performance claim has > > not been made. > > Nor are the symbolic values. > > >> In essence, you're arguing to completely open the border, no fence, > >> no wall... > > > > False. > > Not just false, utterly absurd. He worked to push that same idiocy onto > me. It is him parroting Trump and crowd, with no sign he understands > what it even means. > > >> ...and those who don't want either are all 'bigots'. > > > > No. The bigots are the people who want a wall even without knowing > > if it will materially change the immigration situation at all. And > > this applies in Spades when they try to also lump in drugs also > > without any data or capability performance metrics. > > And keep in mind the pattern of Carroll backing Slimer's open bigotry. > > But Carroll is the victim in his own mind. > > >> How would > >> the reader know this is the case? If it was about drugs, money, etc. > >> there is *no* need to play the race card, none. > > > > Except for your lack of any call for a Wall for the US-Canada border. > > Yeah, I keep noting that here and in other conversations. > > > And no, you can't just try to hand-waive this away by claiming that > > illegal border crossings there aren't a problem because you don't > > have the data...particularly since you'll never have any arrests in > > a region that you have zero law enforcement in. > > > > In the dark, you only ever find lost quarters under the street light. > > :) > > > -- > Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They > cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel > somehow superior by attacking the messenger. > > They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. > > <https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308> What Klaus Schadenfreude does is certainly faster. The guy is as popular as ants at a picnic -- and with good reason. Of course my original statement stands sincere and correct. Despite Script Troller's claim that he has "no experience in making a spam bot" (a lie as demonstrated by the fact that he slammed Klaus Schadenfreude's site) he was quoted asking programmers how they would automate posting through Google Groups. The bulk of the people in this forum do customizations either as a necessity or as a vocation, so I doubt anyone here thinks of writing macros to be "sorcery". All joking aside, those of you who troll are not able to check yourselves anymore. - I Left My Husband & Daughter At Home And THIS happened! https://youtu.be/qwb1Ez0GWMA http://www.5z8.info/myspace-of-sex_q7q7zl_instant-purchase https://youtu.be/Z5wo5aE7MUk Jonas Eklundh Communication
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| From | Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-16 13:51 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <72b296d0-4f0d-4963-8745-dbac161721ee@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #463352 |
On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 11:30:31 AM UTC-7, Steve Carroll wrote: > On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 11:00:41 AM UTC-7, Snit wrote: > > On 8/16/18 9:35 AM, -hh wrote: > > > On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 11:47:00 AM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote: > > >> On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 5:11:12 AM UTC-6, -hh wrote: > > >>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 5:07:59 PM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote: > > >>>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 2:17:17 PM UTC-6, -hh wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> And yet that still doesn't provide a clear "yes" or "no". > > >>>> > > >>>> I've already answered this absurd question. > > >>> > > >>> Cite, please. > > >> > > >> Learn to read. > > > > > > That's plainly not a cite. > > > > It is his effort to move goal posts. > > > > >> But then, you don't even understand the implications of your > > >> own argument so its pointless to ask that of you. I'll lay it > > >> out in the hopes you get someone to explain it to you. Here's > > >> what your 'argument' boils down to... > > > > > > Considering that I've done little more than to challenge your > > > claims instead of making my own policy position, this should be rich. > > > > He repeatedly works to speak for others. It is amazing to watch. > > > > >> Because I'm saying I'd be willing to gamble on building a wall in > > >> favor over the current fencing we now have, you've alleged that I'm > > >> 'bigoted' against those south of the border; > > > > > > Incorrect. > > > > Right: his efforts to speak for you are absurd. > > > > > What I've noted is that you've claimed to be willing > > > to build a wall, but you've avoided any sort of objective metrics > > > for the benefit (return on investment) for that expenditure. The > > > bigotry part is simply noting the parallel of your position to > > > the Alt-Right and Trump political rhetoric, which is trying to > > > claimed an immigration crisis to advance their White Supremacist agenda. > > > > Well stated. Better than I could. Thanks. > > > > >> ...this, as based on your > > >> idea that I'm hiding this alleged 'bigotry' behind what you consider > > >> to be a bogus, drug epidemic argument when my real 'problem' is, to > > >> hear you tell it, that I just don't like the skin color of these > > >> people. > > >> > > >> Obvious question: > > >> What is the difference in *intent* between having our current fencing > > >> and building a wall? > > >> > > >> Obvious answer: > > >> Not a damn thing because, as we all know, "both" are designed to keep > > >> people out. > > > > > > Incorrect, because the costs are not the same. Nor is the implied > > > capability intent...which is implied because a performance claim has > > > not been made. > > > > Nor are the symbolic values. > > > > >> In essence, you're arguing to completely open the border, no fence, > > >> no wall... > > > > > > False. > > > > Not just false, utterly absurd. He worked to push that same idiocy onto > > me. It is him parroting Trump and crowd, with no sign he understands > > what it even means. > > > > >> ...and those who don't want either are all 'bigots'. > > > > > > No. The bigots are the people who want a wall even without knowing > > > if it will materially change the immigration situation at all. And > > > this applies in Spades when they try to also lump in drugs also > > > without any data or capability performance metrics. > > > > And keep in mind the pattern of Carroll backing Slimer's open bigotry. > > > > But Carroll is the victim in his own mind. > > > > >> How would > > >> the reader know this is the case? If it was about drugs, money, etc. > > >> there is *no* need to play the race card, none. > > > > > > Except for your lack of any call for a Wall for the US-Canada border. > > > > Yeah, I keep noting that here and in other conversations. > > > > > And no, you can't just try to hand-waive this away by claiming that > > > illegal border crossings there aren't a problem because you don't > > > have the data...particularly since you'll never have any arrests in > > > a region that you have zero law enforcement in. > > > > > > In the dark, you only ever find lost quarters under the street light. > > > > :) > > > > > > -- > > Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They > > cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel > > somehow superior by attacking the messenger. > > > > They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. > > > > <https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308> > > > > What Klaus Schadenfreude does is certainly faster. > > The guy is as popular as ants at a picnic -- and with good reason. Of course my original statement stands sincere and correct. > > Despite Script Troller's claim that he has "no experience in making a spam bot" (a lie as demonstrated by the fact that he slammed Klaus Schadenfreude's site) he was quoted asking programmers how they would automate posting through Google Groups. The bulk of the people in this forum do customizations either as a necessity or as a vocation, so I doubt anyone here thinks of writing macros to be "sorcery". All joking aside, those of you who troll are not able to check yourselves anymore. > > > > - > I Left My Husband & Daughter At Home And THIS happened! > https://youtu.be/qwb1Ez0GWMA > http://www.5z8.info/myspace-of-sex_q7q7zl_instant-purchase > https://youtu.be/Z5wo5aE7MUk > Jonas Eklundh Communication I'm not fuming, to the contrary, I am laughing at him because Steven Petruzzellis's nonsense is so clear. He actively did not speak of all the details that he would inevitably poo poo... and we all know why. At least he has his own socks in his corner ;) Valuable content creation will leave once the trolls overpopulate. That, and there will perpetually be a mental midget or more in an unmoderated usenet group (hint: Steven Petruzzellis). The impossibility of taming a shrew aside, we've all seen who usually gets angry when he does not get his way. Several of us reported Steven Petruzzellis years ago. As expected, it did nothing to stop the chowderhead. - One Smart Penny! http://www.5z8.info/--INITIATE-CREDIT-CARD-XFER--_k7s1jt_inject_worm Jonas Eklundh
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| From | Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-15 14:14 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <ftjjeaFu9gfU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #463205 |
On 8/15/18 1:17 PM, -hh wrote: > On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 2:48:49 PM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote: >> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:20:33 PM UTC-6, -hh wrote: >>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 11:13:40 AM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote: >>>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 4:28:06 AM UTC-6, -hh wrote: >>>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 11:09:30 PM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote: >>>>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 8:48:57 PM UTC-6, -hh wrote: >>>>>>> vallor writes: >>>>>>>> Steve, Steve, Steve ... >>>>>>>> _There is already a "wall"._ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As well as 101 ways to circumvent it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The idea that our borders are completely undefended, >>>>>>>> and that Trump is somehow going to "save" us from >>>>>>>> this (nonexistent) situation, is absurd. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Most of these ignoraci arent interested in actual >>>>>>> policy discussions >>>>>> >>>>>> "Second, what's the net effective marginal cost? For example, would >>>>>> you personally be willing to have a $10K/year higher tax bill if it >>>>>> shaves off only 5%?" -hh (showing his 'policy discussion' ability) >>>>>> >>>>>> And *I'm* the "ignoraci". LOL! Granted, this isn't anywhere near >>>>>> as ridiculous as your dice rolling 'analogy' but it's pretty close ;) >>>>> >>>>> Actually, it served its purpose quite admirably, >>>> >>>> Nah, you'd already won the 'Idiot savant of the year' award long ago. >>> >>> Oh, look: its an Ad Hominem attack attempt. You still haven't >>> answered "yes" or "no". >> >> LOL! You just proved why my "attack" was warranted. > > And yet that still doesn't provide a clear "yes" or "no". Nor will he ever, nor some other answer where he says you are providing a false dichotomy (if you were it would be fair for him to call you out on it). He simply is dodging and trying to bury the question, even as he plays victim (for example, it is YOUR fault and MY fault and Vallor's fault that we call him out on his backing of bigotry... not his fault for doing so at all!) ... >> Irrelevant, being that you're flat out accusing me of bigotry, and >> doing so without a lick of proof. > > Merely pointing it out as quite logical, without any of the > "have you stopped beating your wife" logical fallacy. You see, in Carroll's mind his bigotry is not the problem... the problem is you and I and Vallor call him out on it. How dare we. He is such a victim! ... >> Like I said, an idiot savant... no need to keep proving it. I'm going to make >> a sandwich of "both" peanut butter and jelly. In your mind, that means I've >> turned them into "one entity". I can go back to 'arguing; with Snit for this >> kind of idiocy. > > You're merely trying to have it both ways...and you don't like having > this contradiction pointed out (hence, yet another Ad Hominem). How long until he projects his drug abuse problems onto you? ... >> Bullsh*t, 'numbers guy'. > > I'm willing to make an IRL welch-proof bet that it can readily be done. I am willing to be a fair party that holds onto the money until the bet is settled. ... >> (snip irrelevancies to reality) > > But of course you "conveniently" snip to dodge the key issue, which > was said as: "...just what its performance would be to address the > claimed immigration problem: the wall is supposed to keep people > out, so that's the net key performance metric..." > > This is asking what the wall's _capability_ requirement is. 25 to 30% of some unknown number. :) ... >> Not relevant because it was mentioned to prove you lied when you wrote: >> "You've said that this all will somehow finally be solved" - hh > > The rhetoric has been suggesting a total solution. I've not seen > Trump claim that he'd be content with a 30% improvement, have you? Are you suggesting Carroll does not have the right to speak for everyone? :) > > >>>> 3 - "I initially disagreed with the wall, I'm still not fully convinced." >>>> >>>>> simply by throwing even more >>>>> money at it even though we've already spent $1T (and counting). >>>> >>>> Hint: We're *going* to keep "throwing even more money at it" >>>> because that's *how* this border scam is played. >>> >>> And yet you're trying to defend this scam >> >> Yes... I've gotten tired of the same old scam. Go figure. > > If that were true, you wouldn't be supportive of this "Wall" agenda > that has no clear, objective capability claims associated with it. It is about emotion and, too often, bigotry. ... >> (snip more irrelevant, Snit-ish BS) > > Which was: > > hh> The racial aspect is that you've tried to move the entire > hh> drug abuse epidemic to only the physical border with Mexico, > hh> where we all know that the racist dog whistle rhetoric has > hh> been of murderer - rapists - 'bad hombres' with zero > hh> acknowledgment of the families with children desperately > hh> fleeing severe criminality, poverty, gang war, & violence. > hh> Because for some reason supposedly other than bigotry, we're > hh> expected to believe that they somehow deserve their fate, > hh> just like the passengers of the MS St. Louis. > > FYI, the historical reference of the MS St. Louis here is > referring to Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany, ... " Well stated and explained. I am happy to see Carroll note I do much the same. -- Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. <https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>
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| From | Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-15 14:25 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <8a36ac2d-5f4b-4252-be9c-28c2afc56b91@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #463213 |
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 2:14:55 PM UTC-7, Snit wrote: > On 8/15/18 1:17 PM, -hh wrote: > > On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 2:48:49 PM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote: > >> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:20:33 PM UTC-6, -hh wrote: > >>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 11:13:40 AM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote: > >>>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 4:28:06 AM UTC-6, -hh wrote: > >>>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 11:09:30 PM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote: > >>>>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 8:48:57 PM UTC-6, -hh wrote: > >>>>>>> vallor writes: > >>>>>>>> Steve, Steve, Steve ... > >>>>>>>> _There is already a "wall"._ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> As well as 101 ways to circumvent it. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The idea that our borders are completely undefended, > >>>>>>>> and that Trump is somehow going to "save" us from > >>>>>>>> this (nonexistent) situation, is absurd. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Most of these ignoraci arent interested in actual > >>>>>>> policy discussions > >>>>>> > >>>>>> "Second, what's the net effective marginal cost? For example, would > >>>>>> you personally be willing to have a $10K/year higher tax bill if it > >>>>>> shaves off only 5%?" -hh (showing his 'policy discussion' ability) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> And *I'm* the "ignoraci". LOL! Granted, this isn't anywhere near > >>>>>> as ridiculous as your dice rolling 'analogy' but it's pretty close ;) > >>>>> > >>>>> Actually, it served its purpose quite admirably, > >>>> > >>>> Nah, you'd already won the 'Idiot savant of the year' award long ago. > >>> > >>> Oh, look: its an Ad Hominem attack attempt. You still haven't > >>> answered "yes" or "no". > >> > >> LOL! You just proved why my "attack" was warranted. > > > > And yet that still doesn't provide a clear "yes" or "no". > > Nor will he ever, nor some other answer where he says you are providing > a false dichotomy (if you were it would be fair for him to call you out > on it). > > He simply is dodging and trying to bury the question, even as he plays > victim (for example, it is YOUR fault and MY fault and Vallor's fault > that we call him out on his backing of bigotry... not his fault for > doing so at all!) > > ... > >> Irrelevant, being that you're flat out accusing me of bigotry, and > >> doing so without a lick of proof. > > > > Merely pointing it out as quite logical, without any of the > > "have you stopped beating your wife" logical fallacy. > > You see, in Carroll's mind his bigotry is not the problem... the problem > is you and I and Vallor call him out on it. How dare we. He is such a > victim! > > ... > >> Like I said, an idiot savant... no need to keep proving it. I'm going to make > >> a sandwich of "both" peanut butter and jelly. In your mind, that means I've > >> turned them into "one entity". I can go back to 'arguing; with Snit for this > >> kind of idiocy. > > > > You're merely trying to have it both ways...and you don't like having > > this contradiction pointed out (hence, yet another Ad Hominem). > > How long until he projects his drug abuse problems onto you? > > ... > >> Bullsh*t, 'numbers guy'. > > > > I'm willing to make an IRL welch-proof bet that it can readily be done. > > I am willing to be a fair party that holds onto the money until the bet > is settled. > > ... > >> (snip irrelevancies to reality) > > > > But of course you "conveniently" snip to dodge the key issue, which > > was said as: "...just what its performance would be to address the > > claimed immigration problem: the wall is supposed to keep people > > out, so that's the net key performance metric..." > > > > This is asking what the wall's _capability_ requirement is. > > 25 to 30% of some unknown number. :) > > ... > >> Not relevant because it was mentioned to prove you lied when you wrote: > >> "You've said that this all will somehow finally be solved" - hh > > > > The rhetoric has been suggesting a total solution. I've not seen > > Trump claim that he'd be content with a 30% improvement, have you? > > Are you suggesting Carroll does not have the right to speak for everyone? :) > > > > > > >>>> 3 - "I initially disagreed with the wall, I'm still not fully convinced." > >>>> > >>>>> simply by throwing even more > >>>>> money at it even though we've already spent $1T (and counting). > >>>> > >>>> Hint: We're *going* to keep "throwing even more money at it" > >>>> because that's *how* this border scam is played. > >>> > >>> And yet you're trying to defend this scam > >> > >> Yes... I've gotten tired of the same old scam. Go figure. > > > > If that were true, you wouldn't be supportive of this "Wall" agenda > > that has no clear, objective capability claims associated with it. > > It is about emotion and, too often, bigotry. > > ... > > >> (snip more irrelevant, Snit-ish BS) > > > > Which was: > > > > hh> The racial aspect is that you've tried to move the entire > > hh> drug abuse epidemic to only the physical border with Mexico, > > hh> where we all know that the racist dog whistle rhetoric has > > hh> been of murderer - rapists - 'bad hombres' with zero > > hh> acknowledgment of the families with children desperately > > hh> fleeing severe criminality, poverty, gang war, & violence. > > hh> Because for some reason supposedly other than bigotry, we're > > hh> expected to believe that they somehow deserve their fate, > > hh> just like the passengers of the MS St. Louis. > > > > FYI, the historical reference of the MS St. Louis here is > > referring to Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany, ... " > > Well stated and explained. I am happy to see Carroll note I do much the > same. > > > -- > Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They > cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel > somehow superior by attacking the messenger. > > They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. > > <https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308> Only what Onion Knight wants matters to Onion Knight. There is nothing Sandman can do to change that. It's a chance to cause harm and it is what it is. His desire is to see me frightened off by idiotic lying. And hey, that could kill this group. What did Sandman hope for from the lying imbecile? That Onion Knight lamebrain has nothing to blow but time. He has nothing else. Especially not a job. Onion Knight can only speculate from the perspective of a sociopath. Already moved on from that. You are too slow! Why would you want to restrict all scripts on GNU/Linux to what can be done on Macs? Linux is a false advocate's only reason for living. -- Curious how these posts are made? Email: fretwizzer@gmail.com
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| From | Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-15 14:07 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <ftjj1fFu757U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #463192 |
On 8/15/18 11:48 AM, Steve Carroll wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:20:33 PM UTC-6, -hh wrote:
>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 11:13:40 AM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 4:28:06 AM UTC-6, -hh wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 11:09:30 PM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 8:48:57 PM UTC-6, -hh wrote:
>>>>>> vallor writes:
>>>>>>> Steve, Steve, Steve ...
>>>>>>> _There is already a "wall"._
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As well as 101 ways to circumvent it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The idea that our borders are completely undefended,
>>>>>>> and that Trump is somehow going to "save" us from
>>>>>>> this (nonexistent) situation, is absurd.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most of these ignoraci arent interested in actual policy discussions
>>>>>
>>>>> "Second, what's the net effective marginal cost? For example, would
>>>>> you personally be willing to have a $10K/year higher tax bill if it
>>>>> shaves off only 5%?" -hh (showing his 'policy discussion' ability)
>>>>>
>>>>> And *I'm* the "ignoraci". LOL! Granted, this isn't anywhere near
>>>>> as ridiculous as your dice rolling 'analogy' but it's pretty close ;)
>>>>
>>>> Actually, it served its purpose quite admirably,
>>>
>>> Nah, you'd already won the 'Idiot savant of the year' award long ago.
>>
>> Oh, look: its an Ad Hominem attack attempt. You still haven't
>> answered "yes" or "no".
>
> LOL! You just proved why my "attack" was warranted.
>
> (snip foolishness about hh's admittedly absurd question)
More dodging from you.
>>>>>> - it’s merely a cover and excuse for their perpetuation of
>>>>>> their racism against non-whites.
>>>>>
>>>>> Typical uber-left BS.
>>>>
>>>> That's not a rebuttal.
>>>
>>> What you wrote was not a rebuttal, it was the typical uber-left
>>> character assassination attempt
>>
>> No, for the moderate/center condemns bigotry too.
>
> Said hh as he *pretends* he's proven my *alleged* "bigotry". Now let's
> see, who else 'argues' like this? I know it'll come to me...
YOU are the one posting YOUR words. It is not -hh who is showing your
bigotry, YOU are. His pointing it out does not make it his fault.
For example, the very fact YOU speak of condemnation of bigotry as
"uber-left" is quite telling of how YOU see bigotry as OK.
>>> This is also yet another example of 'do something and then
>>> claim the other guy is doing it'. *Below you showed a bit
>>> of creativity when you reversed the order.
>>>
>>>> Bigotry is the more reasonable explanation for your agenda,
>>>
>>> And you'll 'prove' it any minute now <eyeroll>, Snit Jr.
>>
>> Well, with the Alt-Right prancing around with Trump banners and
>> literal Nazi tattoos, its quite painfully obvious that there's
>> not a zero possibility of this all being motivated by bigotry.
>
> Irrelevant, being that you're flat out accusing me of bigotry, and
> doing so without a lick of proof.
Let me guess: someone hacked your account in a way Google and several
federal agencies could not stop... and THEY posted bigoted nonsense
under your name.
Wait: you literally have used that excuse to deny your own words.
>> ...but it is quite interesting in how verbally abusive you've
>> become when a light was shined on all of the signs and dog whistles
>> that this all could just be motivated by bigotry/racism.
>
> What's "interesting" is why you actually believe this crap works.
> Have you stopped beating your wife yet, Hugh?
There is nothing in his words to back your accusation, and nothing in
his words that make your bigotry worse than you present it. But notice
how you have gone into full meta-debate mode: you do not want to discuss
YOUR views and YOUR own comments, you want to pretend it is someone
else's fault.
>>>> since the argument that you've made is utter bullshit that
>>>> regularly self-contradicts:
>>>>
>>>> You've said that you can't quantify the magnitude of the
>>>> problem ("That's not calculable"), yet we are simultaneously
>>>> expected to believe you that it is supposedly a big problem
>>>> (a "monumental, *persistent* failure").
>>>
>>> You:
>>> "Drug addiction and immigration are two independent topics which are
>>> best to not be conflated."
>>>
>>> Me
>>> :"I'm just pointing out that there are costs from both."
>>>
>>> But that's not an example of conflation, which means
>>>
>>> conflate
>>> to fuse into one entity; merge:
>>> <https://www.dictionary.com/browse/conflate>
>>
>> "...there are costs from both."
>
> And there are, which *still* doesn't mean I've conflated what you alleged.
>
>> both
>> /bōTH/
>> predeterminer, determiner, & pronoun
>> determiner: both; pronoun: both
>>
>> 1. used to refer to two people or things, regarded and identified
>> together. "both his parents indulged him"
>
> LOL!
>
> Like I said, an idiot savant... no need to keep proving it. I'm going to make
> a sandwich of "both" peanut butter and jelly. In your mind, that means I've
> turned them into "one entity". I can go back to 'arguing; with Snit for this
> kind of idiocy.
Keep in mind he just did the silly quoting of a dictionary when it is
not needed game YOU play over and over.
Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
>>> You: "Second, what's the net effective marginal cost?"
>>> Me: "That's not calculable." (because the build cost can't be accurately
>>> determined, as evidenced by the fact that numbers range from less than the
>>> ~22 billion as 'calculated' by Homeland Security, to the ~70 billion as
>>> 'calculated' by Dems).
>>>
>>> The range between the high and the low, that would be used to *estimate*
>>> the net effective marginal cost *of the wall* are *not* to be conflated with
>>> how "big" the "problem" regarding the money we've *already* spent and are
>>> continuing to spend annually; while they are related, the are *not* "one entity").
>>> (*so, yes, you did what you falsely accused me of, conflation... but you reversed
>>> the order here, probably thinking no one would notice).
>>
>> Actually, that particular variable can be quite easily quantified,
>
> Bullsh*t, 'numbers guy'.
>
>> so you attacked the wrong element:
>
> Nah, I cited (not "attacked") an incalculable number and gave a
> logical reason why that is so. Of course, now you're going to get
> all 'numbery' and pretend to know the build cost, a thing you can't
> possibly know... and you'll do it because you are what I said.
>
>> "cost" here is not just the
>> literal contract value to literally build a wall,
>
> Hint: *not* having *that* number means it's *not* "quite easily quantified";
> IOW, you're stuck making an 'educated' guess.
>
> quantify
> 1 - to determine, indicate, or express the quantity of.
> 2 - Logic. to make explicit the quantity of (a proposition).
> 3 - to give quantity to (something regarded as having only quality).
> <https://www.dictionary.com/browse/quantify>
>
> (snip irrelevancies to reality)
You went back to your dictionary game you just complained about, then
did your normal snip and dodge, as you -- of course -- avoided any
actual topic other than your meta-debates and victim mentality nonsense.
>>>> You've said that this all will somehow finally be solved
>>>
>>> More total bullsh*t by hh, as expected:
>>> 1 - "Nothing can "stop" it, you can only hope to slow illegal
>>> immigration and drug trafficking down."
>>
>> And you've dodged committing to how much you're willing to pay
>
> Wailed hh, as he sought to pivot, hoping he wouldn't be noticed doing it.
> You just lied (again), were busted (again) and now you're pulling this
> sh*t. Who does crap like this? We all know who...
You refuse to answer the question.
You cry about it.
You work to change topics.
You play victim.
You blame your "opponent" of all of those.
Typical Carroll games.
>> for what degree of 'slowing'.
>>
>>> 2 - "I'm good with 30%... 25% even."
>>
>> 30% of just what?
>
> Not relevant because it was mentioned to prove you lied when you wrote:
> "You've said that this all will somehow finally be solved" - hh
So you would be "good" with a solution but that solution is not solving
the problem.
Um, what?
Seems some part of you knows there will ALWAYS be a problem with drugs,
but you want to blame others for YOUR ties to that problem and you are
"good" with expensive solutions others pay for which even at your best
guess would not really do much (and your guess
>>> 3 - "I initially disagreed with the wall, I'm still not fully convinced."
>>>
>>>> simply by throwing even more
>>>> money at it even though we've already spent $1T (and counting).
>>>
>>> Hint: We're *going* to keep "throwing even more money at it" because that's
>>> *how* this border scam is played.
>>
>> And yet you're trying to defend this scam
>
> Yes... I've gotten tired of the same old scam. Go figure.
You want to put MORE money into a scan because you think the lower
figure is a scam. Um, what?
>>>> Bonus: you claim that this will be cheap even though we've
>>>> already spent $8K/household & failed,
>>>
>>> Someone *really* needs to grasp the concept of conflation.
>>
>> Oh, look: its another Ad Hominem attack attempt.
>
> You clearly don't know what the word means, as I just proved
> up above (again).
Ah, Carroll talking for others. How surprising!
>>>> and yet you're not willing to have even a penny come out
>>>> of your own pocket to pay for it.
>>>
>>> Ludicrous BS.
>>
>> You should have said 'literary hyperbola'.
>
> Right, like calling everyone who disagrees with your silliness a "bigot" <eyeroll>.
> Pull the other one.
You just lied. Flat out lied. No, he does not call "everyone who
disagrees" with him a bigot. Not even close. You present ideas which not
even you can explain as being anything other than bigoted, and you
defend Slimer's openly bigoted ideas.
Then when called out you play victim.
> (snip more irrelevant, Snit-ish BS)
More dodging from you... and you are getting closer to blaming me for
your own words. As predicted.
--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.
They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.
<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>
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| From | Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-15 11:56 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <ftjbbmFsfh8U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #463186 |
On 8/15/18 11:20 AM, -hh wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 11:13:40 AM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote:
>> On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 4:28:06 AM UTC-6, -hh wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 11:09:30 PM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 8:48:57 PM UTC-6, -hh wrote:
>>>>> vallor writes:
>>>>>> Steve, Steve, Steve ...
>>>>>> _There is already a "wall"._
>>>>>
>>>>> As well as 101 ways to circumvent it.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The idea that our borders are completely undefended,
>>>>>> and that Trump is somehow going to "save" us from
>>>>>> this (nonexistent) situation, is absurd.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of these ignoraci arent interested in actual policy discussions
>>>>
>>>> "Second, what's the net effective marginal cost? For example, would
>>>> you personally be willing to have a $10K/year higher tax bill if it
>>>> shaves off only 5%?" -hh (showing his 'policy discussion' ability)
>>>>
>>>> And *I'm* the "ignoraci". LOL! Granted, this isn't anywhere near
>>>> as ridiculous as your dice rolling 'analogy' but it's pretty close ;)
>>>
>>> Actually, it served its purpose quite admirably,
>>
>> Nah, you'd already won the 'Idiot savant of the year' award long ago.
>
> Oh, look: its an Ad Hominem attack attempt. You still haven't
> answered "yes" or "no".
Give him another post or two... his failure here will surely be, in his
mind, my fault in some way.
>>> since you dodged answering.
>>
>> Right, I "dodged" the answer to a completely absurd question.
>> But wait, does "dodge" mean I didn't reply at all?
>
> Nope. Dodge means that you didn't answer the question and
> tried to provide a diversion.
Which is what he does non-stop.
>>> Specifically, that example was deliberately set high so that
>>> any rationale person would have unflinchingly said "Hell No!"
>>> to. Yet you were unwilling to say 'no',
>>
>> Telling people what "others" are "unwilling" to do now, Snit Jr.?
>
> Still avoiding saying "yes" or "no" to the question.
Not quite him blaming me, but close. :)
>>> or even just how much your "border security" issue is personally
>>> worth to you - even to spend but a penny - when the money's coming
>>> out of your own pocket.
>>
>> Along with all the other pennies that have gone down the drain,
>> I'm willing to gamble up to the rational, high amount as ascertained
>> by Dem estimates. Of course, the fact that I'm in this discussion
>> indicates as much... but, hey, why let reality stand in the way of
>> another ludicrous, Huntzinger BS story.
>
> Oh, look: its another Ad Hominem attack attempt, and 'Steve' still
> haven't clearly answered with a "yes" or a "no".
His compulsion to blame me is surely growing... I am, somehow in his
brain, stopping him from answering. Count on it. :)
>>>>> - it’s merely a cover and excuse for their perpetuation of
>>>>> their racism against non-whites.
>>>>
>>>> Typical uber-left BS.
>>>
>>> That's not a rebuttal.
>>
>> What you wrote was not a rebuttal, it was the typical uber-left
>> character assassination attempt
>
> No, for the moderate/center condemns bigotry too.
The fact Carroll deems it "uber-left" to condemn bigotry is quite
telling in itself.
>> This is also yet another example of 'do something and then
>> claim the other guy is doing it'. *Below you showed a bit
>> of creativity when you reversed the order.
>>
>>> Bigotry is the more reasonable explanation for your agenda,
>>
>> And you'll 'prove' it any minute now <eyeroll>, Snit Jr.
>
> Well, with the Alt-Right prancing around with Trump banners and
> literal Nazi tattoos, its quite painfully obvious that there's
> not a zero possibility of this all being motivated by bigotry.
>
> ...but it is quite interesting in how verbally abusive you've
> become when a light was shined on all of the signs and dog whistles
> that this all could just be motivated by bigotry/racism.
I do not disagree, but there is some difference between open and active
bigotry (for example what we see in Slimer) and those who just "go along
for the ride" because they cannot see where it hurts THEM. I am *NOT*
defending those people... but I think it is important to note not all
are running around doing as Slimer and Carroll do.
>>> since the argument that you've made is utter bullshit that
>>> regularly self-contradicts:
>>>
>>> You've said that you can't quantify the magnitude of the
>>> problem ("That's not calculable"), yet we are simultaneously
>>> expected to believe you that it is supposedly a big problem
>>> (a "monumental, *persistent* failure").
>>
>> You:
>> "Drug addiction and immigration are two independent topics which are
>> best to not be conflated."
>>
>> Me
>> :"I'm just pointing out that there are costs from both."
>>
>> But that's not an example of conflation, which means
>>
>> conflate
>> to fuse into one entity; merge:
>> <https://www.dictionary.com/browse/conflate>
>
> "...there are costs from both."
>
> both
> /bōTH/
> predeterminer, determiner, & pronoun
> determiner: both; pronoun: both
>
> 1. used to refer to two people or things, regarded and identified
> together. "both his parents indulged him"
LOL! You just did to Carroll as he does to others. Watch him cry.
>> You: "Second, what's the net effective marginal cost?"
>> Me: "That's not calculable." (because the build cost can't be accurately
>> determined, as evidenced by the fact that numbers range from less than the
>> ~22 billion as 'calculated' by Homeland Security, to the ~70 billion as
>> 'calculated' by Dems).
>>
>> The range between the high and the low, that would be used to *estimate*
>> the net effective marginal cost *of the wall* are *not* to be conflated with
>> how "big" the "problem" regarding the money we've *already* spent and are
>> continuing to spend annually; while they are related, the are *not* "one entity").
>> (*so, yes, you did what you falsely accused me of, conflation... but you reversed
>> the order here, probably thinking no one would notice).
>
> Actually, that particular variable can be quite easily quantified,
> so you attacked the wrong element: "cost" here is not just the
> literal contract value to literally build a wall, but also including
> just what its performance would be to address the claimed immigration
> problem: the wall is supposed to keep people out, so that's the net
> key performance metric...and that's what you have no handle on,
> regardless of if the lowball cost of $22B is correct or not.
Trump's wall is almost completely symbolic... it is all about emotion.
>>> You've said that this all will somehow finally be solved
>>
>> More total bullsh*t by hh, as expected:
>> 1 - "Nothing can "stop" it, you can only hope to slow illegal
>> immigration and drug trafficking down."
>
> And you've dodged committing to how much you're willing to pay
> for what degree of 'slowing'.
Carroll speaks of having trouble putting food on the table but spending
OTHER people's money on a symbolic gesture that makes him feel good but
has little if any measurable actual benefit is fine by him.
Quite telling.
>> 2 - "I'm good with 30%... 25% even."
>
> 30% of just what? No hand waiving. Be specific on what your
> choice of metric is defined as, as well as clearly illustrate how
> it materially addresses (links) to what specific national interest,
> including trade-offs.
25-39% of some number he cannot name, and cannot determine if it was
done. But he could likely hand-pick things after the fact and claim it
worked.
>> 3 - "I initially disagreed with the wall, I'm still not fully convinced."
>>
>>> simply by throwing even more
>>> money at it even though we've already spent $1T (and counting).
>>
>> Hint: We're *going* to keep "throwing even more money at it" because that's
>> *how* this border scam is played.
>
> And yet you're trying to defend this scam with advocating for yet
> another wall addition, which at best is only promising to be just
> more of the same.
Want to have a much fun as pinning Jello to a wall... try to pin Carroll
down on what plan he is even talking about.
>>> Bonus: you claim that this will be cheap even though we've
>>> already spent $8K/household & failed,
>>
>> Someone *really* needs to grasp the concept of conflation.
>
> Oh, look: its another Ad Hominem attack attempt.
Shocking.
>>> and yet you're not willing to have even a penny come out
>>> of your own pocket to pay for it.
>>
>> Ludicrous BS.
>
> You should have said 'literary hyperbola'. Nevertheless, the
> point stands that you're not expressed any willingness to pay
> for this yourself.
Given how he speaks of difficulty putting food on the table, how could he?
>> (snip more ludicrous BS by a lying blowhard)
>
> Which was:
>
> hh> The racial aspect is that you've tried to move the entire
> hh> drug abuse epidemic to only the physical border with Mexico,
> hh> where we all know that the racist dog whistle rhetoric has
> hh> been of murderer - rapists - 'bad hombres' with zero
> hh> acknowledgment of the families with children desperately
> hh> fleeing severe criminality, poverty, gang war, & violence.
> hh> Because for some reason supposedly other than bigotry, we're
> hh> expected to believe that they somehow deserve their fate,
> hh> just like the passengers of the MS St. Louis.
Carroll hates being faced with his own bigotry.
> FYI, the historical reference of the MS St. Louis here is
> referring to Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany, who had their
> legal papers *retroactively* invalidated, which was shameful
> enough ... but humanitarian appeals for asylum were then denied
> by the USA and Canada. Subsequent research has estimated that
> fully a quarter of these refugees were later put to death in
> Nazi concentration camps.
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis>
>
> ...and the spin we can anticipate next will probably be: "well,
> I'm okay with them dying even though they were white, because
> they weren't also Christians" /S
Slimer and Carroll are made of the same cloth as those who rejected the
Jews.
--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.
They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.
<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>
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| From | Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-15 08:53 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <f56b2a6f-cb3e-4389-9734-8051609ec30b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #463101 |
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 4:28:06 AM UTC-6, -hh wrote: (snip) > The racial aspect is that you've tried to move the entire drug abuse epidemic to only the > physical border with Mexico, Bull, I noted drugs were part of the issue, along *with* illegal immigration. > where we all know that the racist dog whistle rhetoric has > been of murderer - rapists - 'bad hombres' with zero acknowledgment of the families > with children desperately fleeing severe criminality, poverty, gang war, & violence. And that sucks but we can't help everyone, it's just not possible to do, and It's made worse by those who are scamming the system. > Because for some reason supposedly other than bigotry, we're expected to believe > that they somehow deserve their fate, just like the passengers of the MS St. Louis. 32. Do you think a wall along the U.S. Mexico border is... A good idea that can probably be completed ................................................. 32% A good idea that should probably be tried, even if it can't be completed ....... 19% A bad idea ....................................................................................................... 48% <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByVu4fDHYJgVTHVnZjg5R0JXQmxVNi1la0IzX1o2X0RTZ09j/view> <https://imgur.com/a/zhlVlxl> They're all "racists", all 51% of them <eyeroll>, right, Hugh? Even if you use low polls numbers (which are roughly 1/3), where do you get off labeling them all as racists? Only a Snit-ish jackass would push that kind of ridiculous BS.
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| From | Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-15 09:49 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <ftj3siFqoilU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #463155 |
On 8/15/18 8:53 AM, Steve Carroll wrote: > On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 4:28:06 AM UTC-6, -hh wrote: > > (snip) > >> The racial aspect is that you've tried to move the entire drug abuse epidemic to only the >> physical border with Mexico, > > Bull, I noted drugs were part of the issue, along *with* illegal immigration. So you are not trying to tie together these things you are trying to tie together. Got it! >> where we all know that the racist dog whistle rhetoric has >> been of murderer - rapists - 'bad hombres' with zero acknowledgment of the families >> with children desperately fleeing severe criminality, poverty, gang war, & violence. > > And that sucks but we can't help everyone, it's just not possible to do, and > It's made worse by those who are scamming the system. Ah, now you move to helping those seeking asylum to helping "everyone". More of your games. Bottom line: they have darker skin so you do not want to help them. If they had lighter skin you would, no doubt. >> Because for some reason supposedly other than bigotry, we're expected to believe >> that they somehow deserve their fate, just like the passengers of the MS St. Louis. > > 32. Do you think a wall along the U.S. Mexico border is... > A good idea that can probably be completed ................................................. 32% > A good idea that should probably be tried, even if it can't be completed ....... 19% > A bad idea ....................................................................................................... 48% > > <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByVu4fDHYJgVTHVnZjg5R0JXQmxVNi1la0IzX1o2X0RTZ09j/view> > > <https://imgur.com/a/zhlVlxl> > > They're all "racists", all 51% of them <eyeroll>, right, Hugh? > > Even if you use low polls numbers (which are roughly 1/3), where do you > get off labeling them all as racists? Only a Snit-ish jackass would push > that kind of ridiculous BS. Wait... NOW you think polls are OK even though they do not poll everyone in the country?!?!?!?! Another complete flip flop from you! -- Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. <https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>
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| From | Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-15 09:36 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <ftj353FqgfnU5@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #463101 |
On 8/15/18 3:28 AM, -hh wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 11:09:30 PM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote:
>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 8:48:57 PM UTC-6, -hh wrote:
>>> vallor writes:
>>>> Steve, Steve, Steve ...
>>>> _There is already a "wall"._
>>>
>>> As well as 101 ways to circumvent it.
>>>
>>>> The idea that our borders are completely undefended, and that Trump is
>>>> somehow going to "save" us from this (nonexistent) situation, is absurd.
>>>
>>> Most of these ignoraci arent interested in actual policy discussions
>>
>> "Second, what's the net effective marginal cost? For example, would
>> you personally be willing to have a $10K/year higher tax bill if it
>> shaves off only 5%?" -hh (showing his 'policy discussion' ability)
>>
>> And *I'm* the "ignoraci". LOL! Granted, this isn't anywhere near
>> as ridiculous as your dice rolling 'analogy' but it's pretty close ;)
>
> Actually, it served its purpose quite admirably, since you dodged answering.
>
> Specifically, that example was deliberately set high so that any rationale person
> would have unflinchingly said "Hell No!" to. Yet you were unwilling to say 'no', or
> even just how much your "border security" issue is personally worth to you - even
> to spend but a penny - when the money's coming out of your own pocket.
Carroll speaks of having trouble putting food on the table... but has no
issue spending endless money provided by others on a symbolic wall.
>>> - it’s merely a cover and excuse for their perpetuation of their racism against non-whites.
>>
>> Typical uber-left BS.
>
> That's not a rebuttal. Bigotry is the more reasonable explanation for your agenda,
> since the argument that you've made is utter bullshit that regularly self-contradicts:
And he repeatedly has backed Slimer's open bigotry.
> You've said that you can't quantify the magnitude of the problem ("That's not calculable"),
> yet we are simultaneously expected to believe you that it is supposedly a big problem ( a
> "monumental, *persistent* failure").
> You've said that this all will somehow finally be solved simply by throwing even more
> money at it even though we've already spent $1T (and counting). Bonus: you claim
> that this will be cheap even though we've already spent $8K/household & failed, and
> yet you're not willing to have even a penny come out of your own pocket to pay for it.
His typical hypocrisy. Good catch.
> The racial aspect is that you've tried to move the entire drug abuse epidemic to only the
> physical border with Mexico, where we all know that the racist dog whistle rhetoric has
> been of murderer - rapists - 'bad hombres' with zero acknowledgment of the families
> with children desperately fleeing severe criminality, poverty, gang war, & violence.
> Because for some reason supposedly other than bigotry, we're expected to believe
> that they somehow deserve their fate, just like the passengers of the MS St. Louis.
Carroll attacks those with darker skin. He has for years.
--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.
They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.
<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-14 20:04 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Message-ID | <fthjioFfcbuU10@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #462991 |
On 8/14/18 2:00 PM, -hh wrote: > On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 3:25:48 PM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote: >> On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 12:14:18 PM UTC-6, -hh wrote: >>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 11:15:55 AM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote: >>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 6:39:20 AM UTC-6, chrisv wrote: >>>>> chrisv wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Is it true that that clown threatened to shut-down the government, if >>>>>> he doesn't get funding for his Mexico wall? Only an idiot would think >>>>>> the wall a good idea in the first place! >>>>> >>>>> Personally, if I hear some guy saying that "we're going to build a >>>>> wall, and Mexico is going to pay for it", I think "this guy is an >>>>> idiot". >>>> >>>> I initially disagreed with the wall, I'm still not fully convinced. >>> >>> Considering that most 'illegals' are Visa overstays >> >> I agree that they appear to be overstays, but I'm one of the people that is >> "skeptical" of this 'stat'. I'm sure this will shock the hell outta you ;) > > With education, that can be cured. You can provide information, not understanding. >>> *and* these >>> entries are by gateways other than the Southwest border, even if >>> the wall could be made 100% perfect, the absolute best that a wall >>> could theoretically do is a 40% reduction. >> >> I'm good with 30%... 25% even. > > First off, a 30% total reduction off of what's only 40% of the whole > is actually asking a Wall to be (30%/40%) = 75% effective, which is > quite ambitious...which means expensive. > > Second, what's the net effective marginal cost? For example, would > you personally be willing to have a $10K/year higher tax bill if it > shaves off only 5%? Carroll talks about having trouble putting food on the table but does not care how tax money is wasted. Oy. > YMMV, but I want to see no-kidding financials along with validated > benefits for the proposal, plus the baseline & alternatives, instead > of blithely writing a blank check on a hope and a prayer that throwing > a bucket of money at it _might_ somehow work. > > >>>> OTOH, once one takes into consideration the annual amount spent >>>> on illegal immigration, costs attempting to deal with drugs that >>>> are pouring, no **flooding** across the southern border, costs >>>> of dealing with drug addiction (including *loss of life, lost >>>> productivity, incarceration, etc.) a wall, which we all know >>>> won't be 100% effective, looks like it could be at least part >>>> of a better solution than our current, feeble attempts. >>> >>> Drug addiction and immigration are two independent topics which >>> are best to not be conflated. >> >> I'm just pointing out that there are costs from both. > > So does a Manned Mission to Mars... So does redistributing money to the rich. >> Notably, your article indicates the experts are merely "skeptical" >> Translation: like everyone else, they can't really say. >> >> "Trump has said that building a wall between the United States and >> Mexico would curb opioid use in America, and experts told PolitiFact ' >> in October they’re skeptical a wall would have a drastic impact." >> >> As much as I hate the idea of walls, I'm willing to give it a shot >> as our current 'wall' sucks... *totally*. > > We've already tripled our investment in the SW border security; just > how much of a relevant metric change has been the result? > > Because if you can't even figure out what metrics are important, > then there's no point in spending even more money, because you > can't even tell if you're going in the correct policy direction. It is emotional and symbolic... the "measures" do not matter to those pushing for this huge waste. >>> Specifially, the current epidemic isn't from huge changes in the >>> coke, heroin or pot from South/Latin America, but is with Opioids. >> >> A lot of heroin comes from down south... and the deaths (and addictions) >> have sure gone up: >> >> "Between 2002 and 2013, the rate of heroin-related overdose deaths >> nearly quadrupled..." "45% of people who used heroin were also >> addicted to prescription opioid painkillers" >> <https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/heroin/> > > That choice of metric is conflated, because "heroin-related" includes > Opioids, and their manufacturing origin isn't Central/South America. Carroll is looking to blame others for HIS problems. At least, for a change, he is not blaming me. >>> The primary sources of Opioids is (a) Big Pharma and China (the >>> latter is largely Fentanyl, shipped through the mail). >> >> So? Mexico is a huge source for powdered and crack cocaine, heroin, meth, >> *fentanyl, weed, etc. > > Weed, cocaine & heroin have been broadly around for ~50 years, whereas > the current drug abuse epidemic is far more recent -- and it correlates > to Big Pharma pushing prescription Opioids since 1999 and similarly, of > Fentanyl too (it is also another very recent commercial pharmaceutical): > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fentanyl#History> Lots of meth is made in the US. >>> Those who claim that a wall will stop this are "Pants on Fire" wrong: >> >> Nothing can "stop" it, you can only hope to slow illegal immigration and >> drug trafficking down. What I see is a concerted effort to sell the idea >> that a wall stands no chance of making much of a difference and it's >> pushed *hard* in the media. I don't buy any of the arguments I've seen, >> your mileage obviously varies. > > When you're able to objectively quantify with relevant metrics just > what the actual national benefit has been for the USA's already > tripled budget for border security, then we can talk. Until then, > you're just doing a "spending money must be good, so spending more > money must be better". Spending more of OTHER people's money, even as he speaks of having trouble putting food on the table. >>> <https://www.politifact.com/north-carolina/statements/2018/feb/02/ann-coulter/would-wall-have-prevented-opioid-epidemic/> >>> >>> >>>>> But hey, that's just me. >>>> >>>> Ok, 'just you', what about this stuff... >>>> >>>> * "Nationally, ... >>> >>> Now read your own quote for comprehension, specifically this part: >>> >>>> Opioids – ranging from illegal street drugs like heroin to >>>> prescription painkillers – have played an especially lethal >>>> role: About two-thirds (66%) of the fatal overdoses in 2016 >>>> involved an opioid." >> >> I 'comprehended' it the first time, doesn't change my mind based on >> other things I've read, as well <shrug>. > > TL;DR: it says that two thirds of fatal ODs are coming from drugs > which don't originate from the region you're trying to box off. > > >>>> <http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/05/30/as-fatal-overdoses-rise-many-americans-see-drug-addiction-as-a-major-problem-in-their-community/> >>> >>> Similarly, >>> >>> "...nearly 80 percent of heroin users reported using prescription opioids >>> prior to heroin," the Institute on Drug Abuse notes on a webpage >>> explaining prescription opioids as a gateway drug." >>> >>> <https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/relationship-between-prescription-drug-heroin-abuse/prescription-opioid-use-risk-factor-heroin-use> >>> >>> FYI, a lot of the switch to heroin is economic (Opioids are more expensive). >> >> That, and availability. >> >>>> "...Many of the deaths are from an extremely potent opioid, fentanyl, >>> which is trafficked from Mexico.[16]..." >>>> >>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid_epidemic> >>> >>> Need to read the cite and understand. For example, that was a drug >>> bust based on contraband brought in by air, not a southwest border >>> crossing. Similarly, to have the insight to understand that there's >>> not Fentanyl manufacturing facilities in Mexico, so these existing >>> drug cartels are just a "middleman" who see a profit incentive. >> >> I understand that there are still a sizable number of deaths and addictions >> from things other than fentanyl that do come across the southern border. > > It may be "sizable", but its only ~1/3rd of the overall problem. > From a Pareto Principle, it means your resources will have greater > impact if spent elsewhere. > > >>>> So what's your plan, stick with the status quo? You don't believe that >>>> it might be time to try something more aggressive? >>> >>> The "more aggressive" approach has spent $1T (and counting) >> >> I don't call that more aggressive, I call that 'business as usual'. >> Someone > is making money off the U.S. taxpayer and it's not just >> the drug dealers. > > Such as the private corporations who are contracted to run jails. > > >>> ...but >>> that's basically just law enforcement, so it doesn't include the >>> additional $40B/yr being spent on jails for drug-related crimes. >>> >>> <https://elevationshealth.com/annual-cost-war-on-drugs/> >>> >>>> Or do you think we should decriminalize all drugs? Open the >>>> border and take whatever additional hits there are to take? >>> >>> Well, one definition of insanity is to repeat the same actions >>> while expecting a different outcome... /S >>> >>> As others have pointed out, Portugal is taking a different >>> approach which appears to be working...and at a lower cost. >> >> Portugal has 10 million people and is the size of Indiana... > > Nope. All public policy topics are invariably not about total > population counts, but percentages of the populace. In this > regards, Portugal has succeeded in lowering their rates of the > bad aspects of drug use/abuse by some pretty good margins: > > 60% increase in uptake of treatment [Wiki] > 33% reduction in continuing use rate (44% to 28%) > 80% reduction in Death rate (78 to 17) > 80% reduction in HIV infection rates (approx. 42 to 8 per million) > > <https://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal> > > > >>> Another question that one should also ask is the demographics >>> of the epidemic's users to seek out what underlying social >>> factors may be contributing factors. What I believe I've >>> read here is a big upswing in addicts amongst older, white & >>> middle class who have increasingly been fiscally marginalized >>> and stressed ... these are the casualties of income inequity. >> >> Ages 50-56 do pills, as opposed to heroin by users aged 20-35. > > Here's a report that shows the age grouping: > > <https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-bad-is-the-opioid-epidemic/> > >> From what I've read on this the last time I bothered, the latter was >> was on the upswing while the former is decreasing. > > Yes, but that's because the heroin is being laced with Fentanyl. > > > -hh > -- Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. <https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>
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| From | Jeff-Relf.Me @. |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-08-14 16:54 -0700 |
| Subject | People who overdosed on drugs, and died. |
| Message-ID | <Jeff-Relf.Me@Aug.14--4.54pm.Seattle.2018> |
| In reply to | #462970 |
I know people who overdosed on drugs, and died. They were (mostly) young, _ very good looking ( all of them ), popular, with _ plenty of MoneyForNothing; so more MoneyForNothing wouldn't help. A certain percentage of the population will always have mental issues; there's nothing we can do about it, it's just going to happen.
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