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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #463044
| From | Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.os.linux.advocacy |
| Subject | Re: Trump the liar |
| Date | 2018-08-14 20:04 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <fthjioFfcbuU10@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (11 earlier) <f3j5nd52f8icm7iarh0k6md5shj1a6gpml@4ax.com> <20b81406-f640-4966-8bbc-38f99420b188@googlegroups.com> <5363fae0-1c43-45ba-8217-a1836a3f77ee@googlegroups.com> <3c613186-09d9-4038-8f20-419ed28d593f@googlegroups.com> <313149ec-d74a-4132-adb2-046512b11ce0@googlegroups.com> |
On 8/14/18 2:00 PM, -hh wrote: > On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 3:25:48 PM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote: >> On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 12:14:18 PM UTC-6, -hh wrote: >>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 11:15:55 AM UTC-4, Steve Carroll wrote: >>>> On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 6:39:20 AM UTC-6, chrisv wrote: >>>>> chrisv wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Is it true that that clown threatened to shut-down the government, if >>>>>> he doesn't get funding for his Mexico wall? Only an idiot would think >>>>>> the wall a good idea in the first place! >>>>> >>>>> Personally, if I hear some guy saying that "we're going to build a >>>>> wall, and Mexico is going to pay for it", I think "this guy is an >>>>> idiot". >>>> >>>> I initially disagreed with the wall, I'm still not fully convinced. >>> >>> Considering that most 'illegals' are Visa overstays >> >> I agree that they appear to be overstays, but I'm one of the people that is >> "skeptical" of this 'stat'. I'm sure this will shock the hell outta you ;) > > With education, that can be cured. You can provide information, not understanding. >>> *and* these >>> entries are by gateways other than the Southwest border, even if >>> the wall could be made 100% perfect, the absolute best that a wall >>> could theoretically do is a 40% reduction. >> >> I'm good with 30%... 25% even. > > First off, a 30% total reduction off of what's only 40% of the whole > is actually asking a Wall to be (30%/40%) = 75% effective, which is > quite ambitious...which means expensive. > > Second, what's the net effective marginal cost? For example, would > you personally be willing to have a $10K/year higher tax bill if it > shaves off only 5%? Carroll talks about having trouble putting food on the table but does not care how tax money is wasted. Oy. > YMMV, but I want to see no-kidding financials along with validated > benefits for the proposal, plus the baseline & alternatives, instead > of blithely writing a blank check on a hope and a prayer that throwing > a bucket of money at it _might_ somehow work. > > >>>> OTOH, once one takes into consideration the annual amount spent >>>> on illegal immigration, costs attempting to deal with drugs that >>>> are pouring, no **flooding** across the southern border, costs >>>> of dealing with drug addiction (including *loss of life, lost >>>> productivity, incarceration, etc.) a wall, which we all know >>>> won't be 100% effective, looks like it could be at least part >>>> of a better solution than our current, feeble attempts. >>> >>> Drug addiction and immigration are two independent topics which >>> are best to not be conflated. >> >> I'm just pointing out that there are costs from both. > > So does a Manned Mission to Mars... So does redistributing money to the rich. >> Notably, your article indicates the experts are merely "skeptical" >> Translation: like everyone else, they can't really say. >> >> "Trump has said that building a wall between the United States and >> Mexico would curb opioid use in America, and experts told PolitiFact ' >> in October they’re skeptical a wall would have a drastic impact." >> >> As much as I hate the idea of walls, I'm willing to give it a shot >> as our current 'wall' sucks... *totally*. > > We've already tripled our investment in the SW border security; just > how much of a relevant metric change has been the result? > > Because if you can't even figure out what metrics are important, > then there's no point in spending even more money, because you > can't even tell if you're going in the correct policy direction. It is emotional and symbolic... the "measures" do not matter to those pushing for this huge waste. >>> Specifially, the current epidemic isn't from huge changes in the >>> coke, heroin or pot from South/Latin America, but is with Opioids. >> >> A lot of heroin comes from down south... and the deaths (and addictions) >> have sure gone up: >> >> "Between 2002 and 2013, the rate of heroin-related overdose deaths >> nearly quadrupled..." "45% of people who used heroin were also >> addicted to prescription opioid painkillers" >> <https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/heroin/> > > That choice of metric is conflated, because "heroin-related" includes > Opioids, and their manufacturing origin isn't Central/South America. Carroll is looking to blame others for HIS problems. At least, for a change, he is not blaming me. >>> The primary sources of Opioids is (a) Big Pharma and China (the >>> latter is largely Fentanyl, shipped through the mail). >> >> So? Mexico is a huge source for powdered and crack cocaine, heroin, meth, >> *fentanyl, weed, etc. > > Weed, cocaine & heroin have been broadly around for ~50 years, whereas > the current drug abuse epidemic is far more recent -- and it correlates > to Big Pharma pushing prescription Opioids since 1999 and similarly, of > Fentanyl too (it is also another very recent commercial pharmaceutical): > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fentanyl#History> Lots of meth is made in the US. >>> Those who claim that a wall will stop this are "Pants on Fire" wrong: >> >> Nothing can "stop" it, you can only hope to slow illegal immigration and >> drug trafficking down. What I see is a concerted effort to sell the idea >> that a wall stands no chance of making much of a difference and it's >> pushed *hard* in the media. I don't buy any of the arguments I've seen, >> your mileage obviously varies. > > When you're able to objectively quantify with relevant metrics just > what the actual national benefit has been for the USA's already > tripled budget for border security, then we can talk. Until then, > you're just doing a "spending money must be good, so spending more > money must be better". Spending more of OTHER people's money, even as he speaks of having trouble putting food on the table. >>> <https://www.politifact.com/north-carolina/statements/2018/feb/02/ann-coulter/would-wall-have-prevented-opioid-epidemic/> >>> >>> >>>>> But hey, that's just me. >>>> >>>> Ok, 'just you', what about this stuff... >>>> >>>> * "Nationally, ... >>> >>> Now read your own quote for comprehension, specifically this part: >>> >>>> Opioids – ranging from illegal street drugs like heroin to >>>> prescription painkillers – have played an especially lethal >>>> role: About two-thirds (66%) of the fatal overdoses in 2016 >>>> involved an opioid." >> >> I 'comprehended' it the first time, doesn't change my mind based on >> other things I've read, as well <shrug>. > > TL;DR: it says that two thirds of fatal ODs are coming from drugs > which don't originate from the region you're trying to box off. > > >>>> <http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/05/30/as-fatal-overdoses-rise-many-americans-see-drug-addiction-as-a-major-problem-in-their-community/> >>> >>> Similarly, >>> >>> "...nearly 80 percent of heroin users reported using prescription opioids >>> prior to heroin," the Institute on Drug Abuse notes on a webpage >>> explaining prescription opioids as a gateway drug." >>> >>> <https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/relationship-between-prescription-drug-heroin-abuse/prescription-opioid-use-risk-factor-heroin-use> >>> >>> FYI, a lot of the switch to heroin is economic (Opioids are more expensive). >> >> That, and availability. >> >>>> "...Many of the deaths are from an extremely potent opioid, fentanyl, >>> which is trafficked from Mexico.[16]..." >>>> >>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid_epidemic> >>> >>> Need to read the cite and understand. For example, that was a drug >>> bust based on contraband brought in by air, not a southwest border >>> crossing. Similarly, to have the insight to understand that there's >>> not Fentanyl manufacturing facilities in Mexico, so these existing >>> drug cartels are just a "middleman" who see a profit incentive. >> >> I understand that there are still a sizable number of deaths and addictions >> from things other than fentanyl that do come across the southern border. > > It may be "sizable", but its only ~1/3rd of the overall problem. > From a Pareto Principle, it means your resources will have greater > impact if spent elsewhere. > > >>>> So what's your plan, stick with the status quo? You don't believe that >>>> it might be time to try something more aggressive? >>> >>> The "more aggressive" approach has spent $1T (and counting) >> >> I don't call that more aggressive, I call that 'business as usual'. >> Someone > is making money off the U.S. taxpayer and it's not just >> the drug dealers. > > Such as the private corporations who are contracted to run jails. > > >>> ...but >>> that's basically just law enforcement, so it doesn't include the >>> additional $40B/yr being spent on jails for drug-related crimes. >>> >>> <https://elevationshealth.com/annual-cost-war-on-drugs/> >>> >>>> Or do you think we should decriminalize all drugs? Open the >>>> border and take whatever additional hits there are to take? >>> >>> Well, one definition of insanity is to repeat the same actions >>> while expecting a different outcome... /S >>> >>> As others have pointed out, Portugal is taking a different >>> approach which appears to be working...and at a lower cost. >> >> Portugal has 10 million people and is the size of Indiana... > > Nope. All public policy topics are invariably not about total > population counts, but percentages of the populace. In this > regards, Portugal has succeeded in lowering their rates of the > bad aspects of drug use/abuse by some pretty good margins: > > 60% increase in uptake of treatment [Wiki] > 33% reduction in continuing use rate (44% to 28%) > 80% reduction in Death rate (78 to 17) > 80% reduction in HIV infection rates (approx. 42 to 8 per million) > > <https://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal> > > > >>> Another question that one should also ask is the demographics >>> of the epidemic's users to seek out what underlying social >>> factors may be contributing factors. What I believe I've >>> read here is a big upswing in addicts amongst older, white & >>> middle class who have increasingly been fiscally marginalized >>> and stressed ... these are the casualties of income inequity. >> >> Ages 50-56 do pills, as opposed to heroin by users aged 20-35. > > Here's a report that shows the age grouping: > > <https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-bad-is-the-opioid-epidemic/> > >> From what I've read on this the last time I bothered, the latter was >> was on the upswing while the former is decreasing. > > Yes, but that's because the heroin is being laced with Fentanyl. > > > -hh > -- Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. <https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>
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Trump vs shitv DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-08-10 09:15 -0400
Re: Trump vs shitv owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-08-10 14:11 +0000
Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-10 09:18 -0500
Re: Trump the liar owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-08-10 14:45 +0000
Re: Trump the liar SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-10 14:59 +0000
Re: Trump the liar owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-08-10 15:10 +0000
Re: Trump the liar SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-10 15:46 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-10 08:24 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 08:43 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-10 10:17 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-10 08:21 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 08:28 -0700
Re: Trump the liar owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-08-10 15:29 +0000
Re: Trump the liar SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-10 15:48 +0000
Re: Trump the liar owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-08-10 16:47 +0000
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-10 12:46 -0500
Re: Trump the liar owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-08-10 18:11 +0000
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-10 13:24 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 11:35 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 11:51 -0700
Re: Trump the liar owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-08-10 18:53 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 12:22 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-10 16:01 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-10 16:02 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-14 07:39 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 06:52 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 08:15 -0700
Re: Trump the liar vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-08-14 15:21 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 09:26 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 19:32 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Helinka Svoboda <helinkasvoboda@protestant.com> - 2018-08-15 00:35 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 08:44 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-14 12:07 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 10:21 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-14 13:19 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 12:29 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 19:38 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 12:54 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-16 08:53 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 07:18 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 08:18 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 08:52 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 08:52 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 08:54 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 10:56 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 11:14 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Chuck Chop <"butwaitthere is more"@ginsu.org> - 2018-08-16 21:24 -0400
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 19:11 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Chuck Chop <"butwaitthere is more"@ginsu.org> - 2018-08-16 22:38 -0400
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 10:55 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Andrzej Matuch <a.m@vt.ca> - 2018-08-17 12:47 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 06:16 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-17 08:51 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 09:06 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 19:32 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 19:32 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 19:32 +0000
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-14 11:14 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 12:25 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 19:38 +0000
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-14 14:00 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 14:28 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 15:20 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 15:46 -0700
Re: Trump the liar vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-08-15 00:24 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 17:52 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 18:22 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 18:40 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 19:04 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 19:43 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 19:16 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-14 19:48 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 20:09 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 20:23 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-15 03:28 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 03:47 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 06:22 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 08:13 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 08:56 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-15 09:44 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-15 11:20 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 11:48 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 12:19 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-15 13:17 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 13:54 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 14:07 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-15 14:28 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-16 04:11 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 04:27 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 06:29 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 06:47 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 08:46 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 08:56 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-16 09:35 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 09:55 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 10:52 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 12:20 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-16 13:09 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 13:30 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 13:35 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 13:40 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 14:04 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 14:22 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-16 15:05 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 15:26 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 16:17 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 16:30 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 16:44 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 17:14 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-17 03:57 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-17 07:36 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 07:38 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-17 09:03 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-20 07:03 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 07:11 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 08:32 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-20 10:13 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 10:34 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 10:48 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-20 13:21 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:29 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-20 15:22 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Helinka Svoboda <helinkasvoboda@protestant.com> - 2018-08-20 22:30 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 15:43 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 16:34 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Helinka Svoboda <helinkasvoboda@protestant.com> - 2018-08-20 23:46 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Chuck Chop <"butwaitthere is more"@ginsu.org> - 2018-08-20 20:03 -0400
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 17:21 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Chuck Chop <"butwaitthere is more"@ginsu.org> - 2018-08-20 20:33 -0400
Re: Trump the liar Helinka Svoboda <helinkasvoboda@protestant.com> - 2018-08-21 00:35 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 18:47 -0700
Re: Trump the liar SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-21 11:43 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 05:01 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 08:14 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 08:23 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:25 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:20 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-20 18:48 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Helinka Svoboda <helinkasvoboda@protestant.com> - 2018-08-21 02:29 +0000
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-21 03:33 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 03:58 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 04:30 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Helinka Svoboda <helinkasvoboda@protestant.com> - 2018-08-21 14:08 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Chuck Chop <"butwaitthere is more"@ginsu.org> - 2018-08-21 10:11 -0400
Re: Trump the liar Helinka Svoboda <helinkasvoboda@protestant.com> - 2018-08-21 14:14 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 07:37 -0700
Re: Trump the liar SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-21 14:30 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 08:03 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:18 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:46 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 20:03 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 20:05 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 20:18 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-21 03:56 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 08:03 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:35 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:45 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:52 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 20:01 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 19:58 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 20:11 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 19:45 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Chuck Chop <"butwaitthere is more"@ginsu.org> - 2018-08-20 22:54 -0400
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:49 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 20:14 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 10:40 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 10:50 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 10:51 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 11:18 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 10:36 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 11:03 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Andrzej Matuch <a.m@vt.ca> - 2018-08-17 12:59 +0000
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-17 10:42 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 09:25 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-17 09:35 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 09:53 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Andrzej Matuch <a.m@vt.ca> - 2018-08-17 16:31 +0000
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-20 07:15 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 07:18 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 07:25 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-20 09:32 -0500
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-20 10:25 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-20 13:00 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 11:24 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 16:52 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-21 08:41 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 11:50 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-20 13:43 -0700
Re: Trump the liar SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-20 21:32 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Helinka Svoboda <helinkasvoboda@protestant.com> - 2018-08-20 21:47 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 15:12 -0700
Re: Trump the liar SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-20 22:49 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 15:59 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 16:14 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:40 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:56 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-21 08:08 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:37 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-20 20:12 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-21 08:06 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-21 08:38 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-21 14:26 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 14:36 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-22 07:08 -0500
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-22 06:50 -0700
Re: Trump the liar DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-08-22 10:21 -0400
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-22 11:33 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-17 08:52 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-16 11:00 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 11:30 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 13:51 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-15 14:14 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 14:25 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-15 14:07 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-15 11:56 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 08:53 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-15 09:49 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-15 09:36 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 20:04 -0700
People who overdosed on drugs, and died. Jeff-Relf.Me @. - 2018-08-14 16:54 -0700
Enertainment comes first and foremost. Jeff-Relf.Me @. - 2018-08-16 16:59 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 19:32 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 12:45 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 13:10 -0700
Re: Trump the liar -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2018-08-14 14:46 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 15:22 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-14 20:06 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2018-08-15 04:21 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 04:49 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-10 16:05 -0700
Re: Trump the liar SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-10 18:11 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 11:20 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-10 16:04 -0700
Re: Trump the liar Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-10 16:06 -0700
Re: Trump the liar chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-08-10 10:52 -0500
Re: Trump the liar owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-08-10 16:04 +0000
Re: Trump the liar Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 09:30 -0700
Re: Trump vs shitv Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 07:41 -0700
Re: Trump vs shitv SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-10 14:52 +0000
Re: Trump vs shitv SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-08-10 14:50 +0000
Re: Trump vs shitv Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 07:56 -0700
Re: Trump vs shitv Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-08-10 08:24 -0700
Trump makes people think, and it hurts their heads. Jeff-Relf.Me @. - 2018-08-11 01:22 -0700
Re: Trump makes people think, and it hurts their heads. Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-08-11 01:57 -0700
csiph-web