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My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s

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  My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-11 20:22 +0000
    Re: My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-11 17:33 -0400
      Re: My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-12 00:30 +0000
      Re: My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-12 00:32 +0000
        Re: My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-11 20:34 -0400
          Re: My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-12 01:10 +0000
            Re: My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-11 21:26 -0400
              Re: My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-12 01:41 +0000
                Re: My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-11 21:46 -0400
                  Re: My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-12 02:22 +0000
                  Re: My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-12 21:11 +0000
      Re: My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-12 01:07 +0000
        Re: My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-11 21:26 -0400
          Re: My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> - 2016-07-12 02:00 +0000
            Re: My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-11 22:27 -0400
            Re: My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2016-07-13 14:29 +0200
        Re: My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-07-12 08:22 +0100
          Re: My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-07-12 03:56 -0400

#31457 — My comparison of the Motorola G4 - Nexus 6s - iPhone 6s

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 15:10:08 -0400, nospam wrote:

> there's a shitload of differences between a moto g3 and an iphone 6s,

I'll run a comparison of the iPhone 6s and the Moto G4 and the Nexus 6,
which seems, to me, upon initial cursory inspection anyway, to be a fair
comparison on performance.

https://www.motorola.com/us/products/motomaker
A. Moto G4/16GB = $200
B. Moto G4/32GB = $230

https://www.amazon.com/Motorola-Unlocked-Cellphone-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B00R1984DI
A. Nexus 6/32GB = $300

A. iPhone 6s/16GB = $650
B. iPhone 6s/64GB = $750

Motorola G4 specifications:
http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_moto_g4-8103.php

Nexus 6 specifications:
http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_nexus_6-6604.php

iPhone 6s specifications:
http://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_6s-7242.php

Rough comparison in the order presented by GSM Arena:
1. Network = essentially the same - but Apple 6s has EVDO)
2. Display = all different - Nexus 6 wins - but all are great
3. CPU= all different - Nexus 6 wins - but all are great
4. Memory = essentially the same - Nexus 6 wins on internal RAM
5. Expansion = Motorola G4 wins on expansion - but it may not matter
6. Camera = essentially the same - Apple loses slightly on pixels
7. Video = iPhone 6s wins on formats, then Nexus 6, last Moto G4
8. WLAN = essentially the same - Nexus 6 then iPhone 6s, last Moto G4
9. Bluetooth = same (I'm surprised, because I thought iOS had no bluetooth
file transfer!)
10. GPS = same - Moto G4 has "BDS" (whatever that is)
11. NFC = Nexus 6 wins, Apple a close second, not in Moto G4
12. FM Radio = Only the moto G has an FM radio - but it's not critical
13. Fingerprint = Only the iPhone 6s has fingerprint sensor
14. Accelerometer/Gyro = same for all 
15. Proximity = The Nexus 6 & iPhone 6 have it - none on Moto G4
16. Compass = The Nexus 6 and iPhone 6 have it - none on Moto G4
17. Barometer = The Nexus 6 and iPhone 6 have it - none on Moto G4
18. Talktime = best is Moto G4 then Nexus - iPhone 6s last

Looking at this comparison for the first time, to "me" the phones are
essentially equivalent in the things that matter to me.

Performance matters but I don't know how to interpret these specs:
- Motorola G4 = Basemark X: 6932
- Nexus 6 = Basemark OS II: 1509 / OS II 2.0: 1267 X: 20901
- iPhone 6s = Basemark OS II 2.0: 2195

Overall, even though the phones are both the same and different, they're
more the same than they are different, for the things that matter to me.

If I were forced to line them up in terms of performance, it would be:
1. Nexus 6 
2. iPhone 6s (a close 2nd).
3. Motorola G4 (a close 3rd).

Given that they're all essentially equivalent for the performance things
that matter to me, the price is what would matter:

WINNER: = Nexus 6/32GB = $300
CLOSE RUNNER UP: iPhone 6s/16GB = $650
CLOSE LOSER: Moto G4/32GB = $230

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#31460

In article <nm0v6l$142h$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> 
> > there's a shitload of differences between a moto g3 and an iphone 6s,
> 
> I'll run a comparison of the iPhone 6s and the Moto G4 and the Nexus 6,
> which seems, to me, upon initial cursory inspection anyway, to be a fair
> comparison on performance.

he's not comparing a g4.

he's comparing a moto *g3* with an iphone 6s which is a ludicrous
comparison.

any idiot can tell that they're two very different classes of products.

the nexus 6 is also bigger than the iphone 6s+, which is already big.

you're also comparing raw specs, not real world use.

the verge did a review of the moto g4+ (the one above the g4, which is
a *later* version of his g3), summing it up by just saying 'no'.

<http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/11/12147782/moto-g4-plus-review-android>
  I¹m angry right now. Angry that it¹s 2016 and Android smartphone
  performance can still be awful. Furious that we¹re approaching the
  10th anniversary of the iPhone and Apple¹s competitors still don¹t
  get why its phone is so popular. But most of all, I¹m irate that
  Motorola¹s once-great Moto G budget handset has been turned into a
  compromised and nondescript piece of technological mediocrity.
...
  I can only quibble with the automatic brightness adjustment, which
  can be slow to adapt and sometimes changes in discrete increments
  that make it noticeable. That quibble grows, however, when you start
  exploring the Moto G¹s interface and find yourself consistently
  bothered by something. Is it the jittery animations? Is it the way
  the keyboard¹s letter pop-ups linger on the display for longer than
  they should? Or is it those two-second delays when trying to review
  the last photo you took with the camera? The answer is all of the
  above, of course, as you quickly discover that the Moto G4¹s
  performance is sluggish to the point of being offensive.
...
  The camera is another spot where the Moto G¹s poor performance proves
  an issue. When I take a photo and swipe in from the right to look at
  the shot, there¹s a weird screen rotation animation (why? I¹m keeping
  the phone perfectly level!) before I¹m able to review or edit
  anything. That annoyance is augmented by the delay when swiping to
  and from the camera viewfinder, rendering me both aggravated and
  enervated. I don¹t want to ‹ I shouldn¹t have to ‹ fight my phone
  when all I want to do is take a picture and look at it.

  Not that anyone should trust the Moto G for anything more than casual
  photography. I¹ve been testing the upgraded 16-megapixel Moto G Plus
  camera, and it does nothing to justify the "Plus" branding. It¹s the
  very definition of mediocrity, falling far behind the recent OnePlus
  3 in terms of sharpness, detail retention, and color accuracy. Don¹t
  bother trying to photograph anything in low light with the G or G
  Plus, either, as you¹ll only end up with big splotches of indistinct
  color.
...
  If Lenovo wants to carry on Motorola¹s legacy, it must do better than
  this stuttering, suboptimal Android experience. Even at $199, the
  Moto G should not be this slow and unfriendly to its user. The Moto
  brand once defined what affordable Android could and should be, but
  this year¹s Moto G iteration has fallen into the familiar trap of
  chasing specs and numbers instead of usability and usefulness.


as the saying goes, you get what you pay for.


> https://www.motorola.com/us/products/motomaker
> A. Moto G4/16GB = $200
> B. Moto G4/32GB = $230
> 
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Motorola-Unlocked-Cellphone-Discontinued-Manufacturer/d
> p/B00R1984DI
> A. Nexus 6/32GB = $300
> 
> A. iPhone 6s/16GB = $650
> B. iPhone 6s/64GB = $750
> 
> Motorola G4 specifications:
> http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_moto_g4-8103.php
> 
> Nexus 6 specifications:
> http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_nexus_6-6604.php
> 
> iPhone 6s specifications:
> http://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_6s-7242.php
> 
> Rough comparison in the order presented by GSM Arena:
> 1. Network = essentially the same - but Apple 6s has EVDO)

the networks are not essentially the same.

an iphone 6s has just about all lte bands as well as advanced lte, hd
voice and volte.

the moto g3 (he wasn't comparing a g4) has limited lte bands, no
advanced lte and no volte. however, the g4 does support volte.

> 2. Display = all different - Nexus 6 wins - but all are great

it doesn't win. they're all comparable.

> 3. CPU= all different - Nexus 6 wins - but all are great

it's more than just the processor, as the moto g4 review shows.

in real world use, the iphone wins.

> 4. Memory = essentially the same - Nexus 6 wins on internal RAM

android has a higher runtime overhead and *requires* more memory than
ios.

> 5. Expansion = Motorola G4 wins on expansion - but it may not matter

it doesn't matter at all.

the moto g3 (he's not comparing a g4) *stops* at 16 gig, whereas the
iphone *starts* at 16 gig and goes all the way up to 128 gig. 

16 gig isn't all that much anymore. most users think that apple should
not even offer a 16 gig phone at all, starting at 32 gig, which is what
rumours suggest will happen with the next iphone in the fall. 

the g4 stops at 32 gig, where the next iphone supposedly will start.

in other words, the moto g4 *needs* expansion because it's dead last in
internal capacity and then you get into the mess that is android and
microsd cards.

> 6. Camera = essentially the same - Apple loses slightly on pixels

the camera in the iphone is considered to be among the best, and it's
more than just pixel count too.

see the above review for how bad the g4 camera is. 

> 7. Video = iPhone 6s wins on formats, then Nexus 6, last Moto G4
> 8. WLAN = essentially the same - Nexus 6 then iPhone 6s, last Moto G4

nexus/iphone/g4 all have 802.11ac, making them equivalent.

however, the g3 is just 802.11n, which is what he was comparing, making
it last.

> 9. Bluetooth = same (I'm surprised, because I thought iOS had no bluetooth
> file transfer!)

it's not the same, although close.

iphone has bluetooth 4.2, nexus 6 and g4 have bluetooth 4.1 and the g3
has bluetooth 4.0.

also, and what doesn't show up in the specs, is that android's support
of bluetooth 4.x is not very good, which is why a lot of third party
btle devices only support iphones and very few android phones.

> 10. GPS = same - Moto G4 has "BDS" (whatever that is)
> 11. NFC = Nexus 6 wins, Apple a close second, not in Moto G4

that one is true. nfc on android does do more.

> 12. FM Radio = Only the moto G has an FM radio - but it's not critical

fm radio is useless because it requires headphones for an antenna and
is restricted to nearby stations.

with an app, you can listen to any station anywhere on the planet, and
without needing headphones either.

> 13. Fingerprint = Only the iPhone 6s has fingerprint sensor

which can used both for unlocking and buying stuff. highly recommended.

> 14. Accelerometer/Gyro = same for all 
> 15. Proximity = The Nexus 6 & iPhone 6 have it - none on Moto G4
> 16. Compass = The Nexus 6 and iPhone 6 have it - none on Moto G4
> 17. Barometer = The Nexus 6 and iPhone 6 have it - none on Moto G4
> 18. Talktime = best is Moto G4 then Nexus - iPhone 6s last

where did you get moto g4 talk time?

iphone 6s+ is 24 hours talk time while the nexus is 20 hr, making the
6s+ the winner, not the loser.

you also can't compare the battery life of a nexus 6 with a much
smaller iphone 6. the nexus 6 roughly the size of a iphone 6s+
(slightly bigger).

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#31477

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 17:33:22 -0400, nospam wrote:

> he's not comparing a g4.
> 
> he's comparing a moto *g3* with an iphone 6s which is a ludicrous
> comparison.

Now that I've looked at the G4, I would tend to agree that the G3 is not as
fair a comparison as the G4 - and - having looked at the Nexus 6, I'd say
that is a fairer comparison to the iPhone 6s than even the Moto G4.

I only look at phones when I am buying them, so I am out of touch since the
last Moto G I bought was a gift and it was the $200 16GB Google Moto G (I
don't know the generation - but maybe 1st generation?).

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#31478

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 17:33:22 -0400, nospam wrote:

> the nexus 6 is also bigger than the iphone 6s+, which is already big.
> 
> you're also comparing raw specs, not real world use.

I was comparing the iPhone 6s with the Nexus 6, not the iPhone 6s+.
I thought that was a fair comparison.

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#31479

In article <nm1dq5$1n7t$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> 
> I was comparing the iPhone 6s with the Nexus 6, not the iPhone 6s+.
> I thought that was a fair comparison.

the nexus 6 is a little bit bigger than a 6s+, so it should be compared
to *that*, not the smaller 6s.

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#31483

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 20:34:33 -0400, nospam wrote:

> the nexus 6 is a little bit bigger than a 6s+, so it should be compared
> to *that*, not the smaller 6s.

Since I'm actually considering *buying* one of these as a gift, I figured
the price of the iPhone 6s+ would be out of range for a fair comparison
since the price of the 6s is already more than double the Nexus 6 though.

To me, PRICE is the number one comparison.

And, to be fair, it's the number one to everyone else also since no store
on the planet is going to give you the phone for free - so - the ONE THING
they care about most is the MONEY you give them.

Isn't the iPhone 6s+ even more expensive than the iPhone 6s?
(That would push it even further out of the comparison.)

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#31488

In article <nm1g2v$1phj$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> 
> To me, PRICE is the number one comparison.
> 
> And, to be fair, it's the number one to everyone else also since no store
> on the planet is going to give you the phone for free - so - the ONE THING
> they care about most is the MONEY you give them.

then buy the cheapest thing you can find.

for most people, *features* are important.

it's a complete waste of money if you buy something only to find out it
doesn't do what you need it to do, or does so in a not very efficient
manner. 

> Isn't the iPhone 6s+ even more expensive than the iPhone 6s?
> (That would push it even further out of the comparison.)

yes it is more expensive because it has a bigger display, a bigger
battery, optical image stabilization and maybe some other stuff i
forgot. 

it's a higher end device, so it costs a bit more.

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#31491

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 21:26:38 -0400, nospam wrote:

> then buy the cheapest thing you can find.

You completely missed the point.
NOBODY is going to SELL you the phone without you giving them their asking 
price. That's ALL they care about.

They don't care about ANYTHING ELSE.
The seller only cares about the PRICE.

That was my point.
It's the ONLY thing they care about!

> for most people, *features* are important.

Again, you missed the point entirely!
The whole thread is about a price:performance comparison!

You missed the fact that there is an item on both sides of that colon.
PRICE and PERFORMANCE. Together.

You must understand that it takes ZERO INTELIGENCE to find the most 
expensive phone, which, usually, is the most feature rich (but not always).

Picking the most expensive phone is a brainless task that anyone can do 
(and many do). So, to compare phones purely based on price is what most 
brainless people do.

To pick two EXACTLY EQUAL phones on price is also a brainless task that 
anyone can do.

What takes BRAINS is choosing between two "essentially equal" phones, where 
one has to WEIGH the differences, and put a value on them.

For example, the Nexus 6 is roughly less than half the price of the iPhone 
6s and it compares, IMHO, essentially the same in terms of features that 
"I" care about.

If that statement is true, that means that I'd be paying *double* for a 
worse phone if I bought an iPhone 6s instead of a Nexus 6. That would be 
stupid. 

Why pay double for essentially the same thing?

You don't seem to understand that comparing phones takes INTELLIGENCE, 
where you have to weigh the differences in price AND performance.

Remember, in many ways the Nexus 6 is a BETTER phone than the iPhone 6s, 
just as the iPhone 6s in a few categories is a better phone than the Nexus 
6.

So the INTELLIGENCE comes in how you weigh the differences, since the price 
is more than double between them so you're PAYING DEARLY for those 
extremely few features that are better (and you're losing out on those 
features which are worse).
 
> yes it is more expensive because it has a bigger display, a bigger
> battery, optical image stabilization and maybe some other stuff i
> forgot. 
> 
> it's a higher end device, so it costs a bit more.

That's what I thought. 

For a similar phone based on raw specs, it indeed does seem very true that 
the Apple product is more than twice as expensive as a similar Android 
product, if it's true that the Nexus 6 compares reasonably well in features 
to the iPhone 6s. 

It's all about PRICE AND PERFORMANCE:
- Price - The Nexus 6 is less than half the price of the iPhone 6s
- Performance - the iPhone sure had better be twice as good in terms of 
performance in order to have the same price:performance ratio.

Whether or not the iPhone 6s is twice as good than the Nexus 6 is something 
everyone will weigh differently. I made a case that the two phones are 
essentially equivalent in features.

You can find things that are better on the Nexus 6.
You can find things that are better on the iPhone 6s.
But they're essentially equivalent, in terms of the things "I" care about.

That makes all the difference in a price:performance comparison where the 
performance is essentially equal.

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#31492

In article <nm1hsu$1r99$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> Why pay double for essentially the same thing?

it's *not* essentially the same thing.

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#31495

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 21:46:33 -0400, nospam wrote:

> it's *not* essentially the same thing.

1. In most ways, the Nexus 6 & iPhone 6s are essentially similar.
2. In some ways, the Nexus 6 is better.
3. In other ways, the iPhone 6s is better.

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#31544

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 21:46:33 -0400, nospam wrote:

> it's *not* essentially the same thing.

Here's what a sane person would easily see are not essentially the same
between the Nexus 6 and the iPhone 6s:

1. The operating system.
2. The camera 
3. The fingerprint sensor

Where the price paid/saved for those three things will be 2.5x:
- $300 = Nexus 6/32GB
- $750 = iPhone 6s/32GB

Other than those three things, despite you repeating with any proof
whatsoever that they're not essentially the same, the proof was supplied in
the OP.

The Nexus 6/32GB is slightly superior to the iPhone 6/32GB in some specs
(e.g., NFC, WiFi, battery life, & slightly older bluetooth but with file
transfer, so that's a wash) while the iPhone 6s is slightly superior to the
Nexus 6 in some specs (e.g., it has EVDO and slightly newer Bluetooth - but
without any file transfer so that's a wash); but in most specs other than
fingerprint sensor and more video options, any sane person would see that
it's easily a wash.

Any sane person can see that.
Only the insane (or Apple apologists) will not agree with the fact that the
only major difference are those three things (each of which matter only to
those to whom it matters).

Since the Apple equipment here is 2.5 times more expensive than the Android
equipment, one has to weigh how much it's worth to them to have:
a. Apple's ecosystem
b. More video camera options
c. A fingerprint sensor

Each person can answer that question for themselves:
Q: Are those 3 things worth the entirety of a second Nexus 6 phone with
$150 to spare?

APPLE person = one phone
Android person = two phones plus $150 spare change

Your choice.

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#31482

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 17:33:22 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> 1. Network = essentially the same - but Apple 6s has EVDO)
> 
> the networks are not essentially the same.

I realize you're talking about the G3, but when I looked, I agree with you 
that the G3 is not a fair comparison. A fairer comparison is the G4, and 
even then, the Nexus 6 is a more fair comparison to the iPhone 6s.

Just to be clear, the Motorola G4, Nexus 6, and iPhone 6s "seemed" to me to 
have the same network alphabet soup other than the iPhone 6s has "EVDO".

Is EVDO useful?

>> 2. Display = all different - Nexus 6 wins - but all are great
> it doesn't win. they're all comparable.

I was basing that on raw dimensions and pixel count, but I will easily 
agree with you that the displays seemed all to be perfectly fine so I won't 
quibble about which display is better or worse. So we agree the displays 
are compatible.

>> 3. CPU= all different - Nexus 6 wins - but all are great 
> it's more than just the processor, as the moto g4 review shows. 
> in real world use, the iphone wins.

I do agree that, since the operating system is different, it's hard to 
compare the CPUs between the brands - so - I won't quibble here either. I'd 
say the Nexus 6 and iPhone 6s processors are essentially compatible.
 
>> 4. Memory = essentially the same - Nexus 6 wins on internal RAM
> 
> android has a higher runtime overhead and *requires* more memory than
> ios.

Same thing with memory. I won't quibble here either because the operating 
systems are different. So, again, we can say they're just about compatible 
on built-in memory.

>> 5. Expansion = Motorola G4 wins on expansion - but it may not matter
> 
> it doesn't matter at all. 

I'm going to agree with you here also. So, from the standpoint of 
expansion, it doesn't matter that the Moto G4 is expandable while the other 
Nexus 6 and iPhone 6s are not. I agree with you. 

> the g4 stops at 32 gig, where the next iphone supposedly will start.

I didn't want to get into the 16GB/32GB stuff becuase it's only $30 to go 
from 16GB to 32GB on the Android phones here - while it's a whopping $100 
bucks in general to do the same on Apple. So, I just left out the amount of 
storage from the equation (other than to note the 16GB or 32GB in the 
prices).

> in other words, the moto g4 *needs* expansion because it's dead last in
> internal capacity and then you get into the mess that is android and
> microsd cards.

If I were comparing an Android phone to the iPhone 6s (which I am, by the 
way, for a gift in August), I wouldn't compare the Motorola G4 now that I 
know about the Nexus 6. I'd compare the Nexus 6 and the iPhone 6s.

>> 6. Camera = essentially the same - Apple loses slightly on pixels
> 
> the camera in the iphone is considered to be among the best, and it's
> more than just pixel count too.

I don't doubt the camera is better on the iPhone. 
So I agree with you on this - although I don't know how to tell on my own, 
I don't doubt it. So no need for me to research that further.

> see the above review for how bad the g4 camera is. 

I don't disagree.
 
>> 7. Video = iPhone 6s wins on formats, then Nexus 6, last Moto G4
>> 8. WLAN = essentially the same - Nexus 6 then iPhone 6s, last Moto G4
> 
> nexus/iphone/g4 all have 802.11ac, making them equivalent.

I agree. The WLAN features were exactly the same between the Motorola G4, 
Nexus 6, and iPhone 6s.

> however, the g3 is just 802.11n, which is what he was comparing, making
> it last.

I agree. 802.11 AC is the way to go nowadays, so, we agree that the 
Motorola G3, while a fine phone, is not in the same class as the three I 
chose to compare, which are the Motorola G4, Nexus 6, and iPhone 6s.

>> 9. Bluetooth = same (I'm surprised, because I thought iOS had no bluetooth
>> file transfer!)
> 
> it's not the same, although close.
> 
> iphone has bluetooth 4.2, nexus 6 and g4 have bluetooth 4.1 and the g3
> has bluetooth 4.0.
> 
> also, and what doesn't show up in the specs, is that android's support
> of bluetooth 4.x is not very good, which is why a lot of third party
> btle devices only support iphones and very few android phones.

I use an ancient Samsung Galaxy S3 and have no problem with bluetooth file 
transfer, and I also have no problem that I know of with bluetooth 
speakerphones in my car. 

So, I'm not sure how important the bluetooth versions are given that, in a 
phone, you need only two (or three) things from bluetooth:
1. It has to work with a bluetooth speaker
2. It is useful to have a second channel for simultaneous GPS navigation
3. For Android, it's nice to have file transfer capabilities

Do all three do those three things?
(Maybe the iPhone 6s doesn't do #3, right?)

>> 10. GPS = same - Moto G4 has "BDS" (whatever that is)
>> 11. NFC = Nexus 6 wins, Apple a close second, not in Moto G4
> 
> that one is true. nfc on android does do more.

For "me", NFC is a non issue - but the spec said that the NFC for Apple is 
"Apple pay only" while the NFC for the Nexus didn't say that.

>> 12. FM Radio = Only the moto G has an FM radio - but it's not critical
> 
> fm radio is useless because it requires headphones for an antenna and
> is restricted to nearby stations.

Thanks for explaining that the FM doesn't come with an antenna.
I agree with you that the fact that the Motorola G4 has a FM radio is a non 
issue.

>> 13. Fingerprint = Only the iPhone 6s has fingerprint sensor
> which can used both for unlocking and buying stuff. highly recommended.

This fingerprint thing is a major difference for anyone who really wants 
it, and it's a non issue for anyone who doesn't want it. We will leave that 
assessment up to personal choice. :)

>> 14. Accelerometer/Gyro = same for all 
>> 15. Proximity = The Nexus 6 & iPhone 6 have it - none on Moto G4
>> 16. Compass = The Nexus 6 and iPhone 6 have it - none on Moto G4
>> 17. Barometer = The Nexus 6 and iPhone 6 have it - none on Moto G4
>> 18. Talktime = best is Moto G4 then Nexus - iPhone 6s last
> 
> where did you get moto g4 talk time?

I wasn't sure *what* to use for testing battery life but the only number I 
had for all three phones tested by the same people was the "Endurance 
Rating"

At the bottom of the three reviews is a "Battery life Endurance rating".
1. Motorola G4 Battery life Endurance rating 73h
   http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_moto_g4-8103.php
2. Nexus 6 Battery life Endurance rating 70h
   http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_nexus_6-6604.php
3. iPhone 6s Battery life Endurance rating 62h
   http://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_6s-7242.php

A bit further up from that is the "Talk Time".
1. Motorola G4 (not provided)
2. Nexus 6 
   Stand-by Up to 330 h
   Talk time Up to 24 h
3. iPhone 6s 
   Stand-by Up to 240 h (3G)
   Talk time Up to 14 h (3G)
   Music play Up to 50 h

Based on those numbers, the battery life and talk time are fine on all the 
phones. The Nexus 6 wins handily, but I think this longer battery life of 
the Nexus 6 isn't that big of a deal.

> iphone 6s+ is 24 hours talk time while the nexus is 20 hr, making the
> 6s+ the winner, not the loser.

I'm comparing specs of the iPhone 6s and not the iPhone 6s+ here.
(There's only so much one can compare in a single Usenet post.)
 
> you also can't compare the battery life of a nexus 6 with a much
> smaller iphone 6. the nexus 6 roughly the size of a iphone 6s+
> (slightly bigger).

I'm comparing what seems to be apples to apples "to me", which is the Nexus 
6 and the iPhone 6s.

I do agree that the entire ecosystem is different, so, nothing in my 
comparison is about the operating system.  

When you compare the raw specs of those two phones, the Nexus 6 wins on 
"most" (but not all) categories but the iPhone 6s wins on a couple.

Depending on how you weigh those differences, to "me", I could easily 
support a conclusion that the Nexus 6 and the iPhone 6s are "essentially" 
equivalent in terms of raw specs. 

That's "my" conclusion - but you may (and will) weigh the differences 
differently. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31487

In article <nm1fsn$1pb1$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> Is EVDO useful?

it was 10 years ago.

not so much now.



> > the g4 stops at 32 gig, where the next iphone supposedly will start.
> 
> I didn't want to get into the 16GB/32GB stuff becuase it's only $30 to go 
> from 16GB to 32GB on the Android phones here - while it's a whopping $100 
> bucks in general to do the same on Apple. So, I just left out the amount of 
> storage from the equation (other than to note the 16GB or 32GB in the 
> prices).

it's $100 to go from 16 to 64 on apple, and another $100 to go to 128.

the point is that the moto g4 is a budget phone with very little
capacity. an 8 gig g3 was a joke 5 years ago, nevermind now, but at
least the g4 offers 16/32. it's just too bad it stops there.


> 
> >> 9. Bluetooth = same (I'm surprised, because I thought iOS had no bluetooth
> >> file transfer!)
> > 
> > it's not the same, although close.
> > 
> > iphone has bluetooth 4.2, nexus 6 and g4 have bluetooth 4.1 and the g3
> > has bluetooth 4.0.
> > 
> > also, and what doesn't show up in the specs, is that android's support
> > of bluetooth 4.x is not very good, which is why a lot of third party
> > btle devices only support iphones and very few android phones.
> 
> I use an ancient Samsung Galaxy S3 and have no problem with bluetooth file 
> transfer, and I also have no problem that I know of with bluetooth 
> speakerphones in my car. 
> 
> So, I'm not sure how important the bluetooth versions are given that, in a 
> phone, you need only two (or three) things from bluetooth:
> 1. It has to work with a bluetooth speaker
> 2. It is useful to have a second channel for simultaneous GPS navigation
> 3. For Android, it's nice to have file transfer capabilities

you're missing out on a shitload of new bluetooth functionality.

bluetooth 4 is not just a later version. it's actually very different
and does all kinds of cool stuff. 

> Do all three do those three things?
> (Maybe the iPhone 6s doesn't do #3, right?)

it doesn't need to do that since iphones can transfer files way the
fuck faster in other ways (and to *any* device). so can android, if
you'd only lose your fixation of bluetooth file transfer.

i'm surprised you don't insist on a pop-out rj11 modem jack for when
there's no cellular service.



> >> 10. GPS = same - Moto G4 has "BDS" (whatever that is)
> >> 11. NFC = Nexus 6 wins, Apple a close second, not in Moto G4
> > 
> > that one is true. nfc on android does do more.
> 
> For "me", NFC is a non issue - but the spec said that the NFC for Apple is 
> "Apple pay only" while the NFC for the Nexus didn't say that.

android nfc can be used for more than just mobile payments.

on apple, nfc is currently just apple pay.



> > iphone 6s+ is 24 hours talk time while the nexus is 20 hr, making the
> > 6s+ the winner, not the loser.
> 
> I'm comparing specs of the iPhone 6s and not the iPhone 6s+ here.
> (There's only so much one can compare in a single Usenet post.)

the nexus 6 is a little bigger than a 6s+, so those are the two you
should be comparing.

that little bit of size difference is actually very noticeable in the
hand, so be sure to actually hold the phones before deciding. 

for those who like clown phones, the nexus 6 feels much bigger even
though by the ruler, it's kinda close.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31493

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 21:26:37 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> Is EVDO useful?
> 
> it was 10 years ago.
> 
> not so much now.

Thanks for explaining that.
I'll conclude then, that, in terms of network, the three phones are 
essentially equal.

> the point is that the moto g4 is a budget phone with very little
> capacity. an 8 gig g3 was a joke 5 years ago, nevermind now, but at
> least the g4 offers 16/32. it's just too bad it stops there.

I had never looked at current comparisons until today, but I will likely 
not get the cheapest phone, which is the G4, of the three, simply because 
the Nexus 6 is a better phone at not much higher a price.

So, from a PRICE AND PERFORMANCE standpoint, the Nexus 6 seems to me to be 
a better price:performance choice than is the G4.

So the real comparison here, for this thread, is between the Nexus 6 and 
the iPhone 6s, where the iPhone 6s is more than twice the price so it needs 
to have more than twice the performance to have the same Price:Performance 
metric.

> you're missing out on a shitload of new bluetooth functionality.
> 
> bluetooth 4 is not just a later version. it's actually very different
> and does all kinds of cool stuff. 

OK. But they *all* have Bluetooth 4.1 (4.2 for the iPhone 6s); so, they all 
have bluetooth 4, so, from a price:performance standpoint, bluetooth falls 
out of the equation, right?

> it doesn't need to do that since iphones can transfer files way the
> fuck faster in other ways (and to *any* device). so can android, if
> you'd only lose your fixation of bluetooth file transfer.

So from a price:performance standpoint, we agree, the bluetooth feature of 
the three phones is a wash. Right?
 
> i'm surprised you don't insist on a pop-out rj11 modem jack for when
> there's no cellular service.

I'm trying to compare intelligently.
To do that, I asked a few questions about bluetooth (and other things).
No need to get snippy. 
You helped me answer the bluetooth question, which is that the three phones 
are essentially similar in bluetooth capability in terms of raw performance 
metrics. 


> android nfc can be used for more than just mobile payments.
> on apple, nfc is currently just apple pay.

So, again, aren't you agreeing that the two phones (Nexus 6 and iPhone 6s) 
are "essentially equivalent" in terms of NFC capabilties?

Sure, the Nexus 6 has slightly better NFC - but - overall - aren't they 
"essentially equivalent" in terms of NFC real-world usefulness?

> the nexus 6 is a little bigger than a 6s+, so those are the two you
> should be comparing.

Already the iPhone 6s has to be more than twice as feature rich as the 
Nexus 6 just to have the same price-to-performance ratio. 

If I start comparing to the iPhone 6s+, then the iPhone 6s+ has to be even 
more than twice as feature rich simply to have the same 
price-to-performance ratio as the Nexus 6.
 
> that little bit of size difference is actually very noticeable in the
> hand, so be sure to actually hold the phones before deciding. 

Size is one of those factors that people will weigh differently.
I never want a bigger phone than whatever my Samsung Galaxy S3 is, for 
example. My wife is perfectly happy with the even smaller Motorola G.


Size is bad from the standpoint of battery life and from the standpoint of 
fitting in a pair of jeans while hiking down a mountain - but size is 
better from the standpoint of bigger icons and larger text.

So, people are going to have to weight size on their own.
(I might do that comparison though, in a later post.)

> for those who like clown phones, the nexus 6 feels much bigger even
> though by the ruler, it's kinda close.

To me, whatever size the Galaxy S3 is, is a perfect size. 
Most likely that's smaller than the phones compared here.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31496

In article <nm1ivk$1se2$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> 
> >> Is EVDO useful?
> > 
> > it was 10 years ago.
> > 
> > not so much now.
> 
> Thanks for explaining that.
> I'll conclude then, that, in terms of network, the three phones are 
> essentially equal.

you keep snipping where i said they aren't.

the 6s has just about all lte bands, while the other two don't.

not only that, but the 6s supports advanced lte as well as at&t's band
30.

that's a *huge* win for the 6s. 


> 
> > you're missing out on a shitload of new bluetooth functionality.
> > 
> > bluetooth 4 is not just a later version. it's actually very different
> > and does all kinds of cool stuff. 
> 
> OK. But they *all* have Bluetooth 4.1 (4.2 for the iPhone 6s); so, they all 
> have bluetooth 4, so, from a price:performance standpoint, bluetooth falls 
> out of the equation, right?

the difference may be small, but it's not zero.

the 6s has the highest bluetooth spec.

you don't get to dismiss that because you want the nexus to win your
silly and flawed comparison.

> > it doesn't need to do that since iphones can transfer files way the
> > fuck faster in other ways (and to *any* device). so can android, if
> > you'd only lose your fixation of bluetooth file transfer.
> 
> So from a price:performance standpoint, we agree, the bluetooth feature of 
> the three phones is a wash. Right?

see above.

btle support on ios is *much* better than on android.

this is exactly why comparing raw specs is flawed.

while several android phones claims to have bluetooth 4, software
support for it sucks. it's a bit buggy, so not as many devices actually
use it, although that's starting to change. 

> > i'm surprised you don't insist on a pop-out rj11 modem jack for when
> > there's no cellular service.
> 
> I'm trying to compare intelligently.
> To do that, I asked a few questions about bluetooth (and other things).
> No need to get snippy. 
> You helped me answer the bluetooth question, which is that the three phones 
> are essentially similar in bluetooth capability in terms of raw performance 
> metrics. 

your entire comparison can be summed up as follows:

nexus 6 wins.


> > android nfc can be used for more than just mobile payments.
> > on apple, nfc is currently just apple pay.
> 
> So, again, aren't you agreeing that the two phones (Nexus 6 and iPhone 6s) 
> are "essentially equivalent" in terms of NFC capabilties?

no.

> Sure, the Nexus 6 has slightly better NFC - but - overall - aren't they 
> "essentially equivalent" in terms of NFC real-world usefulness?

nfc on android is actually more useful than on ios.

on the other hand, btle is more useful on ios. 

> > the nexus 6 is a little bigger than a 6s+, so those are the two you
> > should be comparing.
> 
> Already the iPhone 6s has to be more than twice as feature rich as the 
> Nexus 6 just to have the same price-to-performance ratio. 

no.

> If I start comparing to the iPhone 6s+, then the iPhone 6s+ has to be even 
> more than twice as feature rich simply to have the same 
> price-to-performance ratio as the Nexus 6.

no.

> > that little bit of size difference is actually very noticeable in the
> > hand, so be sure to actually hold the phones before deciding. 
> 
> Size is one of those factors that people will weigh differently.
> I never want a bigger phone than whatever my Samsung Galaxy S3 is, for 
> example. My wife is perfectly happy with the even smaller Motorola G.

then you won't like the nexus 6 *at* *all*.

all tis time you've been babbling about how wonderful the specs of the
nexus 6 are, yet you *ignore* one of the most important specs, it's
*size*.

it's big. very big.

nexus 6 versus galaxy s5
<http://phandroid.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/nexus-6-GS
5.png>

nexus 5 versus nexus 6:
<http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/wp-content/phoneimages/Nexus-6-vs-Nexus-5-
b.jpg>

> Size is bad from the standpoint of battery life and from the standpoint of 
> fitting in a pair of jeans while hiking down a mountain - but size is 
> better from the standpoint of bigger icons and larger text.
> 
> So, people are going to have to weight size on their own.
> (I might do that comparison though, in a later post.)
> 
> > for those who like clown phones, the nexus 6 feels much bigger even
> > though by the ruler, it's kinda close.
> 
> To me, whatever size the Galaxy S3 is, is a perfect size. 
> Most likely that's smaller than the phones compared here.

quite a bit smaller.

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#31583

Am 12.07.2016 um 04:00 schrieb Aardvarks:

> Size is bad from the standpoint of battery life

Wrong: Bigger case means (generally) a bigger battery, which (nowadays) 
outweigh the negative effects of the larger screen on power consumption.

> and from the standpoint of
> fitting in a pair of jeans while hiking down a mountain - but size is
> better from the standpoint of bigger icons and larger text.

Or simply for more information on the screen.

Best regards,

Michael

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#31507

On 12/07/2016 02:07, Aardvarks wrote:
[]
> I realize you're talking about the G3, but when I looked, I agree with you
> that the G3 is not a fair comparison. A fairer comparison is the G4, and
> even then, the Nexus 6 is a more fair comparison to the iPhone 6s.
[]

Walk into an Apple shop with a Moto G3 and compare it with a 
similar-size screen iPhone.  Is the iPhone really worth three times the 
price?

Oh, and you're wasting your time trying to reason with "nospam".
-- 
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

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#31511

In article <nm25ra$ua6$1@dont-email.me>, David Taylor
<david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> 
> Walk into an Apple shop with a Moto G3 and compare it with a 
> similar-size screen iPhone.  Is the iPhone really worth three times the 
> price?

so now it's three times the price? yesterday it was just double.

the iphone 6s does way the hell more than a g3 ever could hope to do,
including a 2nd generation fingerprint sensor that's instantaneous,
apple pay, better display, 3d touch, almost all lte bands, advanced
lte, volte, hd voice, 802.11ac, 5 ghz 802.11n, barometer, gyroscope,
optical image stabilization (6s+), 4k/60 fps video, 6 core gpu, faster
cpu, more memory, higher storage capacity, better battery life and less
weight, just to name a few things.

> Oh, and you're wasting your time trying to reason with "nospam".

insults means you have nothing and it isn't just me who is telling you
that you're full of shit.

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