Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.mobile.android > #56151 > unrolled thread

Anti-virus?

Started byAlek <alek.trishan@gmail.com>
First post2018-10-01 13:54 -0400
Last post2018-10-04 13:14 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 90 — 16 participants

Back to article view | Back to comp.mobile.android


Contents

  Anti-virus? Alek <alek.trishan@gmail.com> - 2018-10-01 13:54 -0400
    Re:Anti-virus? Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-10-01 20:05 +0200
      Re: Anti-virus? Alek <alek.trishan@gmail.com> - 2018-10-01 14:15 -0400
        Re: Anti-virus? Calum <com.gmail@nospam.scottishwildcat> - 2018-10-01 19:55 +0100
      Re: Anti-virus? Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2018-10-01 22:11 +0200
        Re: Anti-virus? Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-10-02 02:14 +0200
          Re: Anti-virus? Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2018-10-02 06:18 +0200
        Re: Anti-virus? Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-10-02 02:34 +0200
    Re: Anti-virus? Hergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.5-11@snafu.de> - 2018-10-01 20:49 +0200
      Re: Anti-virus? Alek <alek.trishan@gmail.com> - 2018-10-01 16:03 -0400
        Re: Anti-virus? Arlen   H  Holder <arlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-02 02:52 +0000
        Re: Anti-virus? Hergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.5-11@snafu.de> - 2018-10-02 10:29 +0200
          Re: Anti-virus? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-10-03 13:30 +0200
            Re: Anti-virus? Hergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.5-11@snafu.de> - 2018-10-03 15:09 +0200
              Re: Anti-virus? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-10-03 15:31 +0200
                Re: Anti-virus? Hergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.5-11@snafu.de> - 2018-10-03 16:33 +0200
      Re: Anti-virus? Arlen   H  Holder <arlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-02 02:50 +0000
        Re: Anti-virus? Hergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.5-11@snafu.de> - 2018-10-02 10:55 +0200
          Re: Anti-virus? Arlen   H  Holder <arlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-02 12:32 +0000
            Re: Anti-virus? 123456789 <12345@12345.com> - 2018-10-02 09:45 -0700
              Re: Anti-virus? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2018-10-02 17:54 +0000
                Re: Anti-virus? 123456789 <12345@12345.com> - 2018-10-02 13:15 -0700
                  Re: Anti-virus? Arlen   H  Holder <arlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 02:38 +0000
                  Re: Anti-virus? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2018-10-03 10:49 +0000
                    Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 12:11 +0000
                    Re: Anti-virus? 123456789 <12345@12345.com> - 2018-10-03 08:42 -0700
                      Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 16:16 +0000
                      Re: Anti-virus? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2018-10-03 17:32 +0000
                        Re: Anti-virus? Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2018-10-03 19:02 +0100
                        Re: Anti-virus? Hergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.5-11@snafu.de> - 2018-10-03 20:13 +0200
                          Re: Anti-virus? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2018-10-03 20:09 +0000
                            Re: Anti-virus? Hergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.5-11@snafu.de> - 2018-10-03 23:23 +0200
                              Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-04 13:06 +0000
                              Re: Anti-virus? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2018-10-04 15:02 +0000
                                Google does *not* track *you*! (was: Anti-virus?) Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2018-10-04 15:44 +0000
                                  Re: Google does *not* track *you*! 123456789 <12345@12345.com> - 2018-10-04 09:10 -0700
                                    Re: Google does *not* track *you*! "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-10-07 22:03 +0200
                                      Re: Google does *not* track *you*! 123456789 <12345@12345.com> - 2018-10-07 14:23 -0700
                                  Re: Google does *not* track *you*! Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2018-10-04 17:07 +0000
                                Re: Anti-virus? 123456789 <12345@12345.com> - 2018-10-04 09:10 -0700
                Re: Anti-virus? Arlen   H  Holder <arlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 02:36 +0000
              Re: Anti-virus? Arlen   H  Holder <arlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 02:34 +0000
                Re: Anti-virus? 123456789 <12345@12345.com> - 2018-10-02 20:33 -0700
                  Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder  <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 04:30 +0000
                    Re: Anti-virus? 123456789 <12345@12345.com> - 2018-10-02 22:13 -0700
                      Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 12:52 +0000
                        Re: Anti-virus? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-10-03 15:09 +0200
                          Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 15:40 +0000
                        Re: Anti-virus? 123456789 <12345@12345.com> - 2018-10-03 08:42 -0700
                          Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 16:16 +0000
                            Re: Anti-virus? 123456789 <12345@12345.com> - 2018-10-03 15:52 -0700
                              Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 23:31 +0000
                                Re: Anti-virus? 123456789 <123456@123456.com> - 2018-10-03 21:21 -0700
                                  Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-04 13:07 +0000
                                    Re: Anti-virus? 123456789 <12345@12345.com> - 2018-10-04 09:10 -0700
                Re: Anti-virus? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-10-03 13:37 +0200
                  Re: Anti-virus? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-10-03 08:44 -0400
                  Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 12:52 +0000
                    Re: Anti-virus? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-10-03 15:06 +0200
                      Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 15:40 +0000
                        Re: Anti-virus? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-10-07 20:41 +0200
                          Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-08 15:00 +0000
            Re: Anti-virus? Hergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.5-11@snafu.de> - 2018-10-02 20:42 +0200
              Re: Anti-virus? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-10-03 13:44 +0200
                Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 12:52 +0000
                  Re: Anti-virus? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-10-03 15:14 +0200
                    Re: Anti-virus? Hergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.5-11@snafu.de> - 2018-10-03 15:31 +0200
                      Re: Anti-virus? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-10-03 17:47 +0200
                        Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 16:16 +0000
                        Re: Anti-virus? Hergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.5-11@snafu.de> - 2018-10-03 18:20 +0200
                          Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 17:18 +0000
                    Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 15:39 +0000
                      Re: Anti-virus? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-10-03 17:49 +0200
                        Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 16:16 +0000
                Re: Anti-virus? Hergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.5-11@snafu.de> - 2018-10-03 15:28 +0200
                  Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 15:39 +0000
                  Re: Anti-virus? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-10-07 20:48 +0200
                    Re: Anti-virus? Hergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.5-11@snafu.de> - 2018-10-07 21:40 +0200
        Re: Anti-virus? Alek <alek.trishan@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 19:33 -0400
          Re: Anti-virus? Arlen   H  Holder <arlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-03 02:40 +0000
            Re: Anti-virus? Alek <alek.trishan@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 13:55 -0400
              Re: Anti-virus? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-10-03 14:08 -0400
                Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-04 13:07 +0000
                  Re: Anti-virus? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-10-04 10:03 -0400
                    Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-06 02:56 +0000
                  Re: Anti-virus? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-10-07 20:50 +0200
                    Re: Anti-virus?  Arlen    Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-08 15:00 +0000
              Re: Anti-virus? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2018-10-07 20:54 +0200
    Re: Anti-virus? Arlen   H  Holder <arlenh.older@no.spam.net> - 2018-10-02 02:47 +0000
    Re: Anti-virus? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2018-10-04 13:14 +0100

Page 4 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5  Next page →


#56339

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2018-10-07 20:41 +0200
Message-ID<lj0q8f-aur.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#56220
On 03/10/2018 17.40, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 15:06:37 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
>>> Those reasons are completely unrelated to the security of phones.
>>
>> Which they say are safe, thus not an issue.
> 
> Since I know you, Carlos, to be intelligent, instead of you asking stupid
> questions, we should work together to edify others who to turn OFF all the
> Google data collection.
> 
> I've done it over the years, but I don't have all the tricks assembled into
> a single location.
> 
> Do you?

That is not a security issue, it is about privacy. In fact, some times I
do like google collecting data and find it useful.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56382

From Arlen Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net>
Date2018-10-08 15:00 +0000
Message-ID<ppfrel$hnu$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#56339
On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 20:41:25 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> That is not a security issue, it is about privacy. In fact, some times I
> do like google collecting data and find it useful.

Please see (and improve) this thread for added-value details intended to be
subsequently *improved* by those who have the capabilities to improve
Android setup for either or both privacy & security (so that all benefit
from combined effort from knowledgeable adults on this ng):
 What are the common settings to change on an Android 7.0 Nougat phone for privacy?  
 <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/b9Ck9JSyKXY>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56180

FromHergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.5-11@snafu.de>
Date2018-10-02 20:42 +0200
Message-ID<eqqc8f-p1u.ln1@hergen.dyndns.org>
In reply to#56174
Am 02.10.2018 um 14:32 schrieb Arlen H Holder:

>> Location data.
> 
> Ah. Very good point. I missed that, but there's a reason I missed it.
> HINT: I have location turned off, plus reporting of BSSIDs turned off.

Even with GPS and WIFI scanning off, you can still be tracked based on 
cell tower data. Depending on the environment, this may become quite 
accurate (picocells within a building...).

Also, google services do run with root permissions, so they can easily 
bypass any configuration switch you may have set. There are indications, 
that google is indeed collecting some SSID data even when scanning is 
set to "off".

> In addition to facial recognition algorithms...
> We published a report that showed a _single_ photo can fingerprint a phone.

Yeah. Browser fingerprinting also is frightening accurate. Disclose your 
identify to only one site, and all other sites using the same ad network 
will know it, too.

> Thanks for _adding value_ to the equation!
> It's rare that anyone can do that.

Thanks.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56202

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2018-10-03 13:44 +0200
Message-ID<g1jockFksufU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#56180
On 02/10/2018 20.42, Hergen Lehmann wrote:
> Am 02.10.2018 um 14:32 schrieb Arlen H Holder:
> 
>>> Location data.
>>
>> Ah. Very good point. I missed that, but there's a reason I missed it.
>> HINT: I have location turned off, plus reporting of BSSIDs turned off.
> 
> Even with GPS and WIFI scanning off, you can still be tracked based on
> cell tower data. Depending on the environment, this may become quite
> accurate (picocells within a building...).

Of course they can. You simply have to trust the Android system not to
pass this information to apps. In this situation the most a web page or
app can do is gleaning the position from the current IP address. Maybe
from the WiFI SSID, if it has that permission to read it.

However, authorities still can track the phones, even dumb phones. Not
by doing anything on the phones, but by correlating tower logs, ie, by
asking the ISP to find the location of any phone in the past. Hopefully
with a search warrant.

-- 
Cheers,
       Carlos E.R.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56206

From Arlen Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net>
Date2018-10-03 12:52 +0000
Message-ID<pp2e2q$v23$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#56202
On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 13:44:19 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> Of course they can. You simply have to trust the Android system not to
> pass this information to apps. 

I have specific apps on my cellphone which report cellular tower
information to *me*...
 <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=88809410.jpg>

That includes the femtocells & cellular repeaters in my own home:
 <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=57046143.jpg>

Let's hope, they don't report that same information to the mother ship. 
 <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=52538241.jpg>

> In this situation the most a web page or
> app can do is gleaning the position from the current IP address. Maybe
> from the WiFI SSID, if it has that permission to read it.

Certainly an app can gain critical location information from both the
cellular tower and from the internal GPS chip.

The question is whether that app reports back to the mother ship.
(Let's hope they don't although that can be circumvented by LE.)

> However, authorities still can track the phones, even dumb phones. 

Yup, Easy peasy.
No consumer cellular phone is secure.

> Not
> by doing anything on the phones, but by correlating tower logs, ie, by
> asking the ISP to find the location of any phone in the past. Hopefully
> with a search warrant.

It used to be, I think, that LE didn't even need a search warrant.
All they had to do, as I recall, is ask.

I'm not sure what the status is currently as the Supreme Court is slowly
getting more technical (but very slowly).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56211

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2018-10-03 15:14 +0200
Message-ID<g1jtktFluasU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#56206
On 03/10/2018 14.52, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 13:44:19 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
>> Of course they can. You simply have to trust the Android system not to
>> pass this information to apps. 
> 
> I have specific apps on my cellphone which report cellular tower
> information to *me*...
>  <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=88809410.jpg>
> 
> That includes the femtocells & cellular repeaters in my own home:
>  <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=57046143.jpg>
> 
> Let's hope, they don't report that same information to the mother ship. 
>  <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=52538241.jpg>

And? It is not reporting the position.

> 
>> In this situation the most a web page or
>> app can do is gleaning the position from the current IP address. Maybe
>> from the WiFI SSID, if it has that permission to read it.
> 
> Certainly an app can gain critical location information from both the
> cellular tower and from the internal GPS chip.

No, they can't. You have nor proved that.

Note: displaying cell power is not "location". Not even displaying the
cell "ID".

-- 
Cheers,
       Carlos E.R.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56215

FromHergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.5-11@snafu.de>
Date2018-10-03 15:31 +0200
Message-ID<9vse8f-jb2.ln1@hergen.dyndns.org>
In reply to#56211
Am 03.10.2018 um 15:14 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

> Note: displaying cell power is not "location". Not even displaying the
> cell "ID".

There are public databases which translate cell IDs into locations.
The power gives some indication about the distance from the tower, and 
the sequence of cells also about the direction you are traveling in...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56224

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2018-10-03 17:47 +0200
Message-ID<g1k6jtFno20U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#56215
On 03/10/2018 15.31, Hergen Lehmann wrote:
> Am 03.10.2018 um 15:14 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> 
>> Note: displaying cell power is not "location". Not even displaying the
>> cell "ID".
> 
> There are public databases which translate cell IDs into locations.

Link?

> The power gives some indication about the distance from the tower, and
> the sequence of cells also about the direction you are traveling in...

Very rough location. Like a kilometer error, in a circle around the tower...

-- 
Cheers,
       Carlos E.R.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56229

From Arlen Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net>
Date2018-10-03 16:16 +0000
Message-ID<pp2q11$h3f$3@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#56224
On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 17:47:09 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

>> There are public databases which translate cell IDs into locations.
> 
> Link?

You've got to be kidding?
You're really _that_ stupid, Carlos? Really?

How many freaking times have we discussed this topic of location of cell
towers for God's sake.

Are you _that_ clueless Carlos?

I _thought_ you were more intelligent than that. Really.
Why you _prove_ you're just another clueless moron, is beyond me.

HINT: I must have a half dozen threads on this topic alone.
(That's because "my" cell towers are NOT in the Internet databases!)

>> The power gives some indication about the distance from the tower, and
>> the sequence of cells also about the direction you are traveling in...
> 
> Very rough location. Like a kilometer error, in a circle around the tower...

Now you're just playing silly games, Carlos.

Instead of playing silly games, why don't you use what I thought was
intelligence, to help others set up their phones to NOT report
location-specific information?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56232

FromHergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.5-11@snafu.de>
Date2018-10-03 18:20 +0200
Message-ID<3r6f8f-3f8.ln1@hergen.dyndns.org>
In reply to#56224
Am 03.10.2018 um 17:47 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

>> There are public databases which translate cell IDs into locations.
> 
> Link?

https://www.opencellid.org/
plus several commercial services.

>> The power gives some indication about the distance from the tower, and
>> the sequence of cells also about the direction you are traveling in...
> 
> Very rough location. Like a kilometer error, in a circle around the tower...

The phone does not only report the current cell, it reports multiple 
surrounding cells with associated power. This allows for an approximate 
cross bearing.

Also, cells may become really small in dense urban areas. So-called 
"picocells" do only measure 200 meters, and "femtocells" may even be 
limited to the inside of a single store.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56233

From Arlen Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net>
Date2018-10-03 17:18 +0000
Message-ID<pp2tlt$m7v$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#56232
On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 18:20:18 +0200, Hergen Lehmann wrote:

> https://www.opencellid.org/
> plus several commercial services.

As noted, I have plenty of threads on this topic that Carlos apparently is
ignorant of, where there are two distinctly different types of cell tower
IDs.
a. The kind that are inside my own home (I have two types in my house)
b. The type that is the normal kind, on actual towers 

Only that second type, admittedly the vast majority, are on the
Internet-based databases.

I'm actually shocked that Carlos asked the question he asked, since, if it
was an innocent question, it would be fine, but it seems he was just
playing silly childish games with us since _everyone_ knows of the
information above.

>>> The power gives some indication about the distance from the tower, and
>>> the sequence of cells also about the direction you are traveling in...
>> 
>> Very rough location. Like a kilometer error, in a circle around the tower...
> 
> The phone does not only report the current cell, it reports multiple 
> surrounding cells with associated power. This allows for an approximate 
> cross bearing.
> 
> Also, cells may become really small in dense urban areas. So-called 
> "picocells" do only measure 200 meters, and "femtocells" may even be 
> limited to the inside of a single store.

Since my house is rather large, and since I'm in a rural area, I have both
a femtocell inside my house and a completely different cellular repeater.
 <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=57046143.jpg>

In practice, I can tell which my phone is using because the femtocell has
its own specific ID which is NOT in an Internet database, while the
repeater simply repeats the cell-tower ID of whatever tower it is
repeating, where that changes from moment to moment among seemingly dozens.

As a related aside, on iOS, none of this information is possible, which is
why I have LOTS of threads on this topic, since I try to solve iOS problems
so that iOS can do what Android can do - where only the repeater's IDs show
up in the Internet databases (for the obvious reasons).

Hence, in "my" specific case, if my phone reported the "repeated"
cell-tower ID, it could be of a cell tower twenty miles away, but if the
phone reported the "femtocell" ID, it's only a few feet away.

Having said that, I realize that most people don't have the equipment I
have, so for most people, the cell tower is not being repeated inside their
own home.

Back to my main point though ... there are one or two or three people on
this ng who are actually intelligent.

It would be nice to pool that actual intelligence to HELP PEOPLE set up
their phones so that the phone doesn't report back to the mother ship
things that the user doesn't want reported. 

That's more useful than playing the silly games Carlos is playing with us.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56219

From Arlen Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net>
Date2018-10-03 15:39 +0000
Message-ID<pp2nse$e4g$2@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#56211
On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 15:14:04 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> And? It is not reporting the position.

I'm not sure why you, Carlos, are playing childish fifth-grade games.

It's a fact that I have apps on my phone which can report
- The location, the IP address, movement, and direction
- Accurate BSSIDs of all available WiFi access points
- Accurate tower IDs of all visible SIM-specific cell towers
- The IMEI, network, battery, and tons of other hardware info
etc.

What's your point in playing silly games Carlos?
Why not use your appreciable intelligence to _improve_ our security?

Let's work together, for example, to disseminate information on how to
*block* or *detect* the transmission of our sensitive data to places we
don't want it disseminated.

That would be a lot more effort on your part than playing silly games.

>> Certainly an app can gain critical location information from both the
>> cellular tower and from the internal GPS chip.
> 
> No, they can't. You have nor proved that.

Why not stop playing silly games, Carlos, and improve the knowledge here?


It's clear that the wardriving apps know not only physical location, but
signal strength of all available WiFi APs and cellular towers.
 <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.carknue.gmon2>

For you to play your silly games, Carlos, just wastes my time, and yours.

> Note: displaying cell power is not "location". 
> Not even displaying the cell "ID".

Please stop wasting everyone's time with your silly games, Carlos.

You are only proving that you've never comprehended what a wardriving app
actually does for Christs' sake.
 <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.wigle.wigleandroid>

Why don't you re-focus your appreciable intelligence, Chris, on *improving*
our capabilities to detect and block any of that information from being
disseminated outside our control?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56226

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2018-10-03 17:49 +0200
Message-ID<g1k6osFno20U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#56219
On 03/10/2018 17.39, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 15:14:04 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
>> And? It is not reporting the position.
> 
> I'm not sure why you, Carlos, are playing childish fifth-grade games.
> 
> It's a fact that I have apps on my phone which can report
> - The location, the IP address, movement, and direction
> - Accurate BSSIDs of all available WiFi access points
> - Accurate tower IDs of all visible SIM-specific cell towers
> - The IMEI, network, battery, and tons of other hardware info
> etc.
> 

Prove it. Show the photos. You did not. Prove that your app show
accurate location with phone location services disabled. And stop
calling names, I did not call you silly or childish.

Yes, it shows SSID, etc. That's not a geographic location.

-- 
Cheers,
       Carlos E.R.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56228

From Arlen Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net>
Date2018-10-03 16:16 +0000
Message-ID<pp2q10$h3f$2@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#56226
On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 17:49:48 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> Prove it. Show the photos. You did not. Prove that your app show
> accurate location with phone location services disabled. And stop
> calling names, I did not call you silly or childish.
> 
> Yes, it shows SSID, etc. That's not a geographic location.

Jesus Christ Carlos.
Stop playing silly games. 

You're wasting everyone's time on your silly childish games.

I have threads on *every* one of the things I wrote about, 
for Christs' sake, Carlos.

You are simply proving you are _ignorant_ of the most basic of facts.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56213

FromHergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.5-11@snafu.de>
Date2018-10-03 15:28 +0200
Message-ID<5pse8f-jb2.ln1@hergen.dyndns.org>
In reply to#56202
Am 03.10.2018 um 13:44 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

> Of course they can. You simply have to trust the Android system not to
> pass this information to apps. 

Even if the system doesn't pass the information to apps, the info will 
be passed to google. The google services play an integral and important 
role in the location services of the Android system.

> In this situation the most a web page or
> app can do is gleaning the position from the current IP address.

The operator can also ask google. Location-aware "real time bidding" is 
*THE* big thing in online marketing these days...

> However, authorities still can track the phones, even dumb phones. Not
> by doing anything on the phones, but by correlating tower logs, ie, by
> asking the ISP to find the location of any phone in the past. Hopefully
> with a search warrant.

The use of IMSI catchers is also widespread in many countries. And they 
certainly do *NOT* have a search warrant for all the innocent people 
"accidentally" captured and logged by these things.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56218

From Arlen Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net>
Date2018-10-03 15:39 +0000
Message-ID<pp2nsd$e4g$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#56213
On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 15:28:37 +0200, Hergen Lehmann wrote:

> The use of IMSI catchers is also widespread in many countries. And they 
> certainly do *NOT* have a search warrant for all the innocent people 
> "accidentally" captured and logged by these things.

In the USA, we *pay* our own government to (illegally, IMHO) spy on us!
 How the FBI and Local Police are now spying on you too (not just the NSA!)
 <http://preparedgunowners.com/2015/06/09/how-the-fbi-and-local-police-are-now-spying-on-you-too-not-just-the-nsa/>

They ruin our quality of life since, even though we're doing nothing wrong,
every time I see a Cessna overhead, it's like I feel that a mountain lion
is hungrily watching me ... just getting ready to pounce for no good reason
other than the mountain lion is hungry for a fresh kill.

What do you think of these types of "warning" cell spy catcher programs?
 <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.skibapps.cellspycatcher>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56343

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2018-10-07 20:48 +0200
Message-ID<411q8f-b9s.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#56213
On 03/10/2018 15.28, Hergen Lehmann wrote:
> Am 03.10.2018 um 13:44 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> 
>> Of course they can. You simply have to trust the Android system not to
>> pass this information to apps. 
> 
> Even if the system doesn't pass the information to apps, the info will
> be passed to google. The google services play an integral and important
> role in the location services of the Android system.
> 
>> In this situation the most a web page or
>> app can do is gleaning the position from the current IP address.
> 
> The operator can also ask google. Location-aware "real time bidding" is
> *THE* big thing in online marketing these days...

By operator you mean the phone service operator or company? Because it
is the other way round, they ask the operator to return the location of
the phone via triangulation of the tower signals.

> 
>> However, authorities still can track the phones, even dumb phones. Not
>> by doing anything on the phones, but by correlating tower logs, ie, by
>> asking the ISP to find the location of any phone in the past. Hopefully
>> with a search warrant.
> 
> The use of IMSI catchers is also widespread in many countries. And they
> certainly do *NOT* have a search warrant for all the innocent people
> "accidentally" captured and logged by these things.


Mmm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSI-catcher

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An international mobile subscriber identity-catcher, or IMSI-catcher, is
a telephone eavesdropping device used for intercepting mobile phone
traffic and tracking location data of mobile phone users.[1] Essentially
a "fake" mobile tower acting between the target mobile phone and the
service provider's real towers, it is considered a man-in-the-middle
(MITM) attack. The 3G wireless standard offers some risk mitigation due
to mutual authentication required from both the handset and the
network.[2] However, sophisticated attacks may be able to downgrade 3G
and LTE to non-LTE network services which do not require mutual
authentication.[3]

IMSI-catchers are used in the United States and other countries by law
enforcement and intelligence agencies, but their use has raised
significant civil liberty and privacy concerns and is strictly regulated
in some countries such as under the German Strafprozessordnung (StPO /
Code of Criminal Procedure).[1][4] Some countries do not have encrypted
phone data traffic (or very weak encryption), thus rendering an
IMSI-catcher unnecessary.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56355

FromHergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.5-11@snafu.de>
Date2018-10-07 21:40 +0200
Message-ID<b24q8f-sa7.ln1@hergen.dyndns.org>
In reply to#56343
Am 07.10.2018 um 20:48 schrieb Carlos E.R.:

>>> In this situation the most a web page or
>>> app can do is gleaning the position from the current IP address.
>>
>> The operator can also ask google. Location-aware "real time bidding" is
>> *THE* big thing in online marketing these days...
> 
> By operator you mean the phone service operator or company? Because it
> is the other way round, they ask the operator to return the location of
> the phone via triangulation of the tower signals.

I was thinking about web site operators, which can get a lot of user 
information from the ad networks they participate in. Especially if they 
participate both as an advertiser and as a site displaying ads.

> IMSI-catchers are used in the United States and other countries by law
> enforcement and intelligence agencies, but their use has raised
> significant civil liberty and privacy concerns and is strictly regulated
> in some countries such as under the German Strafprozessordnung (StPO /
> Code of Criminal Procedure).[1][4]

This regulation can hardly be called strict. Basically, the use of 
technical surveillance (including IMSI catchers) is allowed whenever 
there is the suspicion that some target person(s) are planning or did 
commit a crime. This is fulfilled for almost every political 
demonstration where extremists are expected to show up.

And of course, the use of IMSI catchers and other technical surveillance 
methods has skyrocketed in germany, too.

> Some countries do not have encrypted
> phone data traffic (or very weak encryption), thus rendering an
> IMSI-catcher unnecessary.

In most cases, they are not interested in the traffic, but in 
meta-information (who was in the area), so encryption does not matter.

The advantage of using an IMSI catcher over asking the phone operator 
is, that they get the desired information in real time and without 
having to go through a legal authorization process.
Of course, they are required to delete unneeded information afterwards 
(at least here in germany) - but the definition of unneeded is rather 
vague, and nobody is able to verify the deletion.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56183

FromAlek <alek.trishan@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-02 19:33 -0400
Message-ID<pp0v8i$5ro$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#56166
Arlen H Holder wrote on 10/1/2018 10:50 PM:
> 
> I realize you'll say "banking", but only a fool does banking on the phone.

Why do you say that?

Thanks.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56188

FromArlen H Holder <arlenh.older@no.spam.net>
Date2018-10-03 02:40 +0000
Message-ID<pp1a6e$33r$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#56183
On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 19:33:34 -0400, Alek wrote:

>> I realize you'll say "banking", but only a fool does banking on the phone.
> 
> Why do you say that?

Simple answer which may be too obvious for what you're asking.

1. Banking is something that needs to be secure.
2. Phones are not secure.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 4 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.mobile.android


csiph-web