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Note pad

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  Note pad Dieter Britz <dieterhansbritz@gmail.com> - 2021-01-01 13:34 +0000
    Re: Note pad "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-01 14:40 +0100
      Re: Note pad  Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-01 15:52 +0000
      Re: Note pad Davidm <davidm_uk-notme@hotmail.com> - 2021-01-01 16:11 +0000
        Re: Note pad Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-01 16:37 +0000
          Re: Note pad "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-01 20:55 +0100
            Re: Note pad  Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-01 20:43 +0000
              Re: Note pad "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-01 22:33 +0100
                Re: Note pad Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-02 04:46 +0000
                  Re: Note pad "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-02 13:36 +0100
                    Re: Note pad AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2021-01-02 08:40 -0700
                      Re: Note pad Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-02 18:49 +0000
                        Re: Note pad "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-02 20:38 +0100
                          Re: Note pad Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-03 20:12 +0000
                      Re: Note pad "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-02 20:36 +0100
                    Re: Note pad Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-02 17:09 +0000
                      Re: Note pad "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-02 21:01 +0100
                        Re: Note pad AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2021-01-02 14:36 -0700
                          Re: Note pad "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-02 22:55 +0100
                        Re: Note pad  Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-03 20:12 +0000
                          Re: Note pad "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-03 22:54 +0100
                            Re: Note pad Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-04 00:21 +0000
    Re: Note pad philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2021-01-01 09:50 -0600
      Re: Note pad Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-01 16:19 +0000
        Re: Note pad philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2021-01-01 10:56 -0600
          Re: Note pad  Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-01 17:32 +0000
            Re: Note pad philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2021-01-01 11:49 -0600
              Re: Note pad Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-01 19:32 +0000
                Re: Note pad philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2021-01-01 17:44 -0600
                  Re: Note pad  Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-02 00:17 +0000
                    Re: Note pad philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2021-01-01 18:36 -0600
                      Re: Note pad Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-02 04:53 +0000
                    Re: Note pad philo@novabbs.i2p (philo) - 2021-01-02 01:47 +0000
                      Re: Note pad Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-02 05:06 +0000
                        Re: Note pad philo@novabbs.i2p (philo) - 2021-01-02 05:34 +0000
                          Re: Note pad Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-02 17:09 +0000
                            Re: Note pad philo@novabbs.i2p (philo) - 2021-01-02 19:12 +0000
                              Re: Note pad Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-03 20:12 +0000
                            Re: Note pad philo@novabbs.i2p (philo) - 2021-01-03 02:49 +0000
                              Re: Note pad Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-03 21:55 +0000
                                Re: Note pad philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2021-01-03 17:44 -0600
                                  Re: Note pad  Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-04 01:05 +0000
                                    Re: Note pad Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-04 01:49 +0000
      Re: Note pad Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-04 02:19 +0000
    Re: Note pad VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-01-01 10:12 -0600
      Re: Note pad  Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-01 16:33 +0000
    Re:Note pad Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> - 2021-01-02 14:43 +0100
      Re: Note pad  Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-02 18:44 +0000
        Re: Note pad Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> - 2021-01-03 10:29 +0100
          Re: Note pad Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> - 2021-01-03 11:05 +0100
          Re: Note pad Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-03 21:55 +0000
            Re: Note pad Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> - 2021-01-05 21:37 +0100
              Re: Note pad  Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-05 23:58 +0000
                Re: Note pad Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> - 2021-01-07 18:03 +0100
    Re: Note pad Dieter Britz <dieterhansbritz@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 14:18 +0000

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#72892 — Note pad

What is the best simple note pad app? I have tried one,
and it has bells & whistles, which irritate. I want one
that is just a plain sheet I can make notes in, nothing more.

-- 
Dieter Britz

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#72893

On 01/01/2021 14.34, Dieter Britz wrote:
> What is the best simple note pad app? I have tried one,
> and it has bells & whistles, which irritate. I want one
> that is just a plain sheet I can make notes in, nothing more.
> 

I use Keep (Google's), simply because it syncs trivially to other devices.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#72895

On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 14:40:27 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 01/01/2021 14.34, Dieter Britz wrote:
>> What is the best simple note pad app? I have tried one,
>> and it has bells & whistles, which irritate. I want one
>> that is just a plain sheet I can make notes in, nothing more.
>> 
> 
> I use Keep (Google's), simply because it syncs trivially to other devices.

Happy New Year!

I think this is a tough question, where I, myself, have a _huge_ folder of
notepad like apps, all ready to be tested. Actually, I have _multiple_ huge
folders of them, there are that many out there (although I link them with
my shopping lists, which may or may not be the same thing to others).

I just counted them, where I have about 50 of those notepad-like appso
o <https://i.postimg.cc/htxGtgZp/notepad01.jpg>

I'd literally be hard pressed to pick one that I like.
o Where those on the left in that image I simply hate less than most.

Maybe sometime this year I will try to add the immense value of testing
them all and reporting on which were best for what purpose, but if I had
to try to help the OP by taking a quick stab at the notepad like editors
I hate least, I think I'd put "Jota" perhaps, & "SNotepad", & "JustNotes" &
"no-go-github.io" & "MyNotes" & "SimpleMobileTools Notes", etc., near the
top.

I only chose them just now 'cuz they're the ones I have in my screenshot at
left so I must have picked them long ago for a reason (where I rename the
notepad apps to be named what they "do" for me, since most of them are
named "notes" so you can't tell the difference by name).

But that's really a cop out on the question as it matters a _lot_ what the
OP wants to do with the note taking app, particularly 'cuz some are
checklists, others are a single file, many don't allow you to choose where
the file goes, many have too many buttons, some, like Jota, allow you to
define which buttons you see, others like "vi" are just too damn
complicated for a cellphone, while others keep entire directories of files,
but those directories are all in a proprietary format, etc.

Me?
a. I want it to take verbal dictation (because I have huge fingers)
b. Once tapped, the app must autostart & autosave (to reduce button clicks)
c. It should take manual handwriting (most already should do that)
d. It must allow me to set _where_ it will autosave the files
e. It should automatically create the file name (but allow me to set it)
f. It should have a setting allowing either edit the same or a new file
g. Obviously it's useless unless it saves to a standard TXT EOF format
h. It would be nice to have a checklist mode (there are lots of list apps)

In summary, there are so many note-pad-like apps that it's a big job to
pick the best one as they all do the same thing in different ways.

Someday I'll be able to point users to the canonical test of all the
notepad like Android apps, but for now, even I don't have a favorite
(which is rare for me as I'm damn good at software testing).

Sorry this isn't as definitive as it could have been.
o Hope it's still useful  

(If someone paid me to test 'em, you'd have best test you've ever seen in
your life, by the way - where I should probably start a web page for that.)
-- 
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to help others make good choices.

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#72896

On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 14:40:27 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 01/01/2021 14.34, Dieter Britz wrote:
>> What is the best simple note pad app? I have tried one,
>> and it has bells & whistles, which irritate. I want one
>> that is just a plain sheet I can make notes in, nothing more.
>> 
>
>I use Keep (Google's), simply because it syncs trivially to other devices.
+1

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#72902

On Fri, 01 Jan 2021 16:11:47 +0000, Davidm wrote:

>>I use Keep (Google's), simply because it syncs trivially to other devices.
> +1

If you want "sync", why not FOSS software like, oh, offhand, say, Joplin?
o <https://joplinapp.org/>
-- 
Posted, as always, to add useful value to any discussion on Usenet.

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#72909

On 01/01/2021 17.37, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jan 2021 16:11:47 +0000, Davidm wrote:
> 
>>> I use Keep (Google's), simply because it syncs trivially to other devices.
>> +1
> 
> If you want "sync", why not FOSS software like, oh, offhand, say, Joplin?
> o <https://joplinapp.org/>
> 

«The notes can be synchronised with various cloud services including
Nextcloud, Dropbox, OneDrive, WebDAV or the file system (for example
with a network directory). When synchronising the notes, notebooks, tags
and other metadata are saved to plain text files which can be easily
inspected, backed up and moved around.»


Means that you need sometype of contract with a cloud provider, or roll
your own.

It is not clear to me whether I can write the notes on anyone of my
devices and see the changes instantly in any other device, and continue
editing in any one.


The keyword for "keep" is "trivial".

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#72911

On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 20:55:06 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Means that you need sometype of contract with a cloud provider, or roll
> your own.

Hi Carlos,

Happy New Year!

I realize my question to you is a difficult question to answer because you
have a different mindset than I do on privacy (and that's perfectly fine).

I have nothing against Google Keep other than it being a Google product
o Which I am on record, as you're aware, of shunning for privacy reasons

For example:
o Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
   <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/mBIZ-8jGdmk>

Hence, I freely & openly admit I don't use _any_ Google apps unless a gun
is pointed to my head (e.g., I use Google Voice, but only because I don't
know of anything else that gives me the free phone calls & email
transcriptions).

This means I'm pretty clueless when it comes to what "Keep" does, in order
to find a better non-Google replacement for whatever it is you like about
it.

But, to your point of "sometype of contract with a cloud provider", doesn't
"Keep" have "sometype of contract with Google as your cloud provider?".

I mean, for example, don't you have to log into Google for Keep to do what
it is you want it to do? (That's "sometype of contract", just as OneDrive
is "sometype of contract" and just as DropBox is "sometype of contract",
are they not?)

They _all_ require, at the very least, an account to log into, don't they?
o Why would a "Google Account" be different to you than any other account?

What's the "magic" in a Google Account for Keep that wouldn't be in a
DropBox account for, oh, say, Joplin? What's the advantage of a Google
Account that wouldn't be the same for a Microsoft OneDrive account?

> It is not clear to me whether I can write the notes on anyone of my
> devices and see the changes instantly in any other device, and continue
> editing in any one.

Well, I'm not wedded to Joplin, but I'm certainly on the record for
assuming that anyone using Google apps is usually not using their brain
properly (in my humblest of opinions).

It's not just Google by the way that lulls people into turning their brains
off so they can suck up all their personal data and resell it to others.

I get it that _all_ the big MARKETING orgs make it easy for folks to turn
their brains off so the big MARKETING orgs can suck up their data and then
sell it to others... so I'm not at all arguing that Google doesn't make it
easy.

I'm just asking _what_ is in Keep that would keep you using it if something
better existed that didn't have the flaws that an app like Keep likely has?

You mentioned "sync" and someone patted you on the back for that, where I
noted if all you want is "sync", then that's not hard to come by (and yes,
trivially so, e.g., I can sync any file I want with Android, if I want to,
simply by using some sort of freeware file sync program, can't I?).

I'm not sure how important that double-editing-at-the-same-time "feature"
is, as you only have one set of hands, but let's assume that's a critical
feature. How does not saving the file to your own SMBv3 USB stick on your
own SOHO router not accomplish the same thing (and yes, trivially so)?

For that matter, how does saving to _any_ cloud account (e.g., DropBox or
OneDrive) not accomplish the same thing? Is the _only_ difference that
Google does an "autosave" for Keep files?

In summary, I'm absolutely sure Keep makes it simple for folks to give
Google all their private data (of that I have absolutely no doubt); but my
question is what is in Keep that we can better replace with something else,
simply by putting our brains in gear to select a better app that doesn't
have the privacy flaws that I assume (a priori) that Keep likely has?

What I'm looking for is a solution that is _both_ intelligent & trivial.

> The keyword for "keep" is "trivial".

I have absolutely no doubt _all_ the big MARKETING orgs make it trivial for
users to put all their private deeply personal data on their cloud (so that
they can monopolize that data in some fashion, which we all know is the
game being played here).

I simply feel there is an intelligent way to circumvent those MARKETING
plans.

The keyword, for me, is intelligent where I feel it's possible to gain both
"trivial" and "privacy" simply by being intelligent about it.

In summary, I'm confused what Keep does that other free apps don't already
do that also keeps our private data off of someone else's cloud server.
o List of one-to-one replacement freeware for each of the current score of Android Google apps
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/IPorNMcyP3g>
-- 
Posted to find both trivial & intelligent ways to keep our data private.

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#72912

On 01/01/2021 21.43, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 20:55:06 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> Means that you need sometype of contract with a cloud provider, or roll
>> your own.
> 
> Hi Carlos,
> 
> Happy New Year!
> 
> I realize my question to you is a difficult question to answer because you
> have a different mindset than I do on privacy (and that's perfectly fine).

I'm aware.


> But, to your point of "sometype of contract with a cloud provider", doesn't
> "Keep" have "sometype of contract with Google as your cloud provider?".

Certainly. But the contract with Google is "automatic", you get it as
soon as you buy the phone and the shop clerk sets up the phone for you.
To use keep, if it is not installed already, it is just tap to install
the app, add the icon to the "desktop", done. Just tap to use and write.
It is really trivial to use.

People often also use gmail via web browser on the computer, which has a
menu for more apps, so click there on keep and get the same notes as you
have on the phones.

With any other cloud provider I first have to actually contract them,
perhaps pay them, and actually write configuration on the apps.


> I mean, for example, don't you have to log into Google for Keep to do what
> it is you want it to do? (That's "sometype of contract", just as OneDrive
> is "sometype of contract" and just as DropBox is "sometype of contract",
> are they not?)

The phone is perpetually logged into Google, since day one. It is so
transparent that people do not even know they have a google account and
password.

This is typically setup by "somebody else", maybe the shop clerk, maybe
friend or family. Once done, you need doing nothing for "years" (I have
the same phone since 2018).


...

> You mentioned "sync" and someone patted you on the back for that, where I
> noted if all you want is "sync", then that's not hard to come by (and yes,
> trivially so, e.g., I can sync any file I want with Android, if I want to,
> simply by using some sort of freeware file sync program, can't I?).

That is far from "trivial".


> 
> I'm not sure how important that double-editing-at-the-same-time "feature"
> is, as you only have one set of hands, but let's assume that's a critical
> feature. How does not saving the file to your own SMBv3 USB stick on your
> own SOHO router not accomplish the same thing (and yes, trivially so)?

I know several people with phones that would be completely baffled by
that idea and not know how to do it. Even if I write detailed
instructions step by step. I tried.

And it would not sync out of home.

Yes, syncing on two devices is interesting and I use it. For example,
say I write a note while on the street. I get home, add some thing to
the note (change from GSM signal to WiFi signal transparent). I sit. I
pick up the tablet, and continue writing on the same note.

Or, create a note and share it with somebody else. The note is a
shopping list. As we go our separate ways, each one ticks on the list
the items that have been purchased, in our respective phones.

This is all automatic, needs no configuration, no registration.


Sure, there is no guarantee as to privacy. I don't care that google can
know that I want to buy a tin of beans and another of artichokes. Most
people don't care. Really private items are kept out of the phone.

If I wanted privacy, I would not use any USA cloud provider, either, it
would have to be a fully EU-one.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#72925

On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 22:33:24 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> I realize my question to you is a difficult question to answer because you
>> have a different mindset than I do on privacy (and that's perfectly fine).
> 
> I'm aware.

Hi Carlos,

Happy New Year!

For those who are comparing Google Keep to Joplin, here's each link:
o Google Keep <https://www.google.com/keep/>
o Joplin <https://joplinapp.org/>

Here's a review of each (although the Google Keep in PC Magazine:
o <https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/7-reasons-to-actually-start-using-google-keep>
o <https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/joplin>

Here's how to port Google Keep to Joplin, for those who might want to:
o <https://blog.jfx.ac/moving-notes-from-google-keep-to-joplin.html>

>> But, to your point of "sometype of contract with a cloud provider", doesn't
>> "Keep" have "sometype of contract with Google as your cloud provider?".
> 
> Certainly. But the contract with Google is "automatic", you get it as
> soon as you buy the phone and the shop clerk sets up the phone for you.

Understood.

BTW, I've never had a "shop clerk" set up a phone for me.
o Mine arrive, usually by post or from Costco, where I'm the 1st user.

If people don't mind logging into things, there are other alternatives also:
o <https://www.tomsguide.com/round-up/best-note-taking-apps>

For example, Notion seems to have SAML/SSL "sync" features built in:
o Notion - Notes, Tasks, Wikis, by Notion Labs, Inc.
  <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=notion.id>

> With any other cloud provider I first have to actually contract them,
> perhaps pay them, and actually write configuration on the apps.

Understood.

BTW, I'm likely the least knowledgeable here as to "cloud providers" 
as I'm more likely to set up NextCloud or OwnCloud than a Google cloud solution.
o Joplin with NextCloud/OwnCloud <https://www.beris.nl/joplin/>

> The phone is perpetually logged into Google, since day one.

Understood.

For the record, I don't even have a Google Account set up on my phone.
o And it works just fine.

But most people do have the OS pointed to a Google Account.
o And it works fine for them, which I fully understand.

> It is so
> transparent that people do not even know they have a google account and
> password.

Understood.
o Although that's a sad thought.

> This is typically setup by "somebody else", maybe the shop clerk, maybe
> friend or family. Once done, you need doing nothing for "years" (I have
> the same phone since 2018).

Understood.
o Although I think it would be crazy to let someone else set up their phone.

I used to factory wipe every month or so, but I don't factory reset much 
lately as I've gotten pretty good at knowing what system apps to disable.

> That is far from "trivial".

Here's a table comparing Google Keep to Joplin for the Usenet record:
o <https://www.slant.co/versus/2120/24561/~google-keep_vs_joplin>

> And it would not sync out of home.

As far as I know, a USB stick in a SMBv3 port on a SOHO router works 
fine away from home (if you have a static IP address as I have).

But I agree with you completely that it's not for most people.

> Yes, syncing on two devices is interesting and I use it. For example,
> say I write a note while on the street. I get home, add some thing to
> the note (change from GSM signal to WiFi signal transparent). I sit. I
> pick up the tablet, and continue writing on the same note.

Understood.

When I just now googled for the "best note taking apps", sync showed
up as a feature on many of them.
o <https://androidwaves.com/best-note-taking-apps/>
o <https://www.techradar.com/best/best-note-taking-app>
o <https://collegeinfogeek.com/best-note-taking-apps/>
etc.

Both Keep & Evernote (aka Joplin, in a sense) are on most of them.

> Or, create a note and share it with somebody else. The note is a
> shopping list. As we go our separate ways, each one ticks on the list
> the items that have been purchased, in our respective phones.

Understood.

> This is all automatic, needs no configuration, no registration.

Not really, but I understand what you mean.

What you mean is a Google "registration" is transparent on Android.
o I'm not so sure it's "as transparent" on iOS, MacOS, Windows, & Linux.
 
> Sure, there is no guarantee as to privacy. I don't care that google can
> know that I want to buy a tin of beans and another of artichokes. Most
> people don't care. Really private items are kept out of the phone.

Understood.
o I generally don't put stuff on a phone that I'd be worried about either.

> If I wanted privacy, I would not use any USA cloud provider, either, it
> would have to be a fully EU-one.

Understood.
o There's a _reason_ we have a 2nd amendment (to keep the gob'ment honest)

For us, I'm not sure if a EU cloud provider would work as well as it 
might for you (in Portugal?) as we have the FBI watching us internally 
and the NSA tapping everything we do that goes overseas. :)
-- 
Privacy is something that is like washing your hands; you're never finished
cleaning up the spots between the fingers and under the fingernails...

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#72936

On 02/01/2021 05.46, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Jan 2021 22:33:24 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

...

>>> But, to your point of "sometype of contract with a cloud provider", doesn't
>>> "Keep" have "sometype of contract with Google as your cloud provider?".
>>
>> Certainly. But the contract with Google is "automatic", you get it as
>> soon as you buy the phone and the shop clerk sets up the phone for you.
> 
> Understood.
> 
> BTW, I've never had a "shop clerk" set up a phone for me.
> o Mine arrive, usually by post or from Costco, where I'm the 1st user.

Around here, maybe depending on the shop, now the clerk does not setup
the phone, or asks written permission to do so.

...

>> It is so
>> transparent that people do not even know they have a google account and
>> password.
> 
> Understood.
> o Although that's a sad thought.

Depends on the point of view :-)

> 
>> This is typically setup by "somebody else", maybe the shop clerk, maybe
>> friend or family. Once done, you need doing nothing for "years" (I have
>> the same phone since 2018).
> 
> Understood.
> o Although I think it would be crazy to let someone else set up their phone.

No, it is not. It is just a fact.

When you buy a washing machine, a gas cooking range, a refrigerator, an
air conditioning unit, do you set it up yourself, or do you get a
professional to do it for you? I guess the later.

The normal thing to do is have a professional do at least the initial
setup of any machine you buy. Why would we have to setup our computers
ourselves, if we are not professionals?

> 
> I used to factory wipe every month or so, but I don't factory reset much 
> lately as I've gotten pretty good at knowing what system apps to disable.
> 
>> That is far from "trivial".
> 
> Here's a table comparing Google Keep to Joplin for the Usenet record:
> o <https://www.slant.co/versus/2120/24561/~google-keep_vs_joplin>

Sync for Joplin is not mentioned as a key feature.

I see:

Pro: Dropbox support

Can sync using Dropbox.


Con: Sync issue under Linux

The Linux client has a bug that requires the user to click the mouse
frequently in order for sync to proceed. This bug has been open for a while.


Con: Sync issues on Windows

No way to change account settings and sync easily corrupted.




> 
>> And it would not sync out of home.
> 
> As far as I know, a USB stick in a SMBv3 port on a SOHO router works 
> fine away from home (if you have a static IP address as I have).

But most people do not.

I don't. I have a dynamic name host, so I can reach my IP of the time.
But I am paranoid about its security, and I tell you that remote sync
will not work with it. Not as normally understood, it is a complex
procedure.

> 
> But I agree with you completely that it's not for most people.
> 
>> Yes, syncing on two devices is interesting and I use it. For example,
>> say I write a note while on the street. I get home, add some thing to
>> the note (change from GSM signal to WiFi signal transparent). I sit. I
>> pick up the tablet, and continue writing on the same note.
> 
> Understood.
> 
> When I just now googled for the "best note taking apps", sync showed
> up as a feature on many of them.
> o <https://androidwaves.com/best-note-taking-apps/>
> o <https://www.techradar.com/best/best-note-taking-app>
> o <https://collegeinfogeek.com/best-note-taking-apps/>
> etc.

It is normal to take a quick note on the phone, then continue write the
complex part on the computer. Or the reverse, you prepare the note on
the computer first, then use them on the street. If you have the
feature, you use it. If you never try, you don't miss it :-)

> 
> Both Keep & Evernote (aka Joplin, in a sense) are on most of them.
> 
>> Or, create a note and share it with somebody else. The note is a
>> shopping list. As we go our separate ways, each one ticks on the list
>> the items that have been purchased, in our respective phones.
> 
> Understood.
> 
>> This is all automatic, needs no configuration, no registration.
> 
> Not really, but I understand what you mean.
> 
> What you mean is a Google "registration" is transparent on Android.
> o I'm not so sure it's "as transparent" on iOS, MacOS, Windows, & Linux.

Oh, many people login to Google on their computers most of the time.
They may do it for reading email on the browser, which means they are
automatically in for youtube or any other "app" on the browser.

I don't. If I have to, I use a separate Firefox profile, so that google
can not track my every browser activity connected to my email and actual
person.

Similarly I use different profiles each for Amazon, Facebook, etc.

Ah, and I refuse to use Facebook on the phone. I remove the app.

>> Sure, there is no guarantee as to privacy. I don't care that google can
>> know that I want to buy a tin of beans and another of artichokes. Most
>> people don't care. Really private items are kept out of the phone.
> 
> Understood.
> o I generally don't put stuff on a phone that I'd be worried about either.
> 
>> If I wanted privacy, I would not use any USA cloud provider, either, it
>> would have to be a fully EU-one.
> 
> Understood.
> o There's a _reason_ we have a 2nd amendment (to keep the gob'ment honest)
> 
> For us, I'm not sure if a EU cloud provider would work as well as it 
> might for you (in Portugal?) as we have the FBI watching us internally 
> and the NSA tapping everything we do that goes overseas. :)

Spain. Yes, your agencies also spy on us over here.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#72942

On 1/2/2021 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> When you buy a washing machine, a gas cooking range, a refrigerator,
> an air conditioning unit, do you set it up yourself, or do you get a
>  professional to do it for you? I guess the later.

My new phone (purchased online) should arrive in the mail in a few days.
In the past I've bought my phones in a nearby phone store and had them
set up there. It was very easy.

But times change. My phone store currently requires appointments because
of Covid. And my local emergency rooms were turning away ambulances
yesterday because there was no room. So I decided maybe it was wise to
do it by mail this time. YMMV.

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#72950

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 08:40:14 -0700, AJL wrote:

> My new phone (purchased online) should arrive in the mail in a few days.
> In the past I've bought my phones in a nearby phone store and had them
> set up there. It was very easy.
> 
> But times change. My phone store currently requires appointments because
> of Covid. And my local emergency rooms were turning away ambulances
> yesterday because there was no room. So I decided maybe it was wise to
> do it by mail this time. YMMV.

I'm confused what they _do_ to "set up" a phone for you where you live.

Where I live, in California, I bought a phone from Google, my $100 Moto G7,
which was on sale if I used Google Fi for a few days, which I did.

Then I cancelled the Google Fi account, and I put my T-Mobile SIM card into
the new Moto G7 when it arrived in the mail, and it just worked. If the SIM
card wasn't the same size, I'd call 611 on my old phone and ask T-Mobile to
send me a new SIM card, which might need "activation" over the phone.

But that's it for what _they_ need to do for me.
o They simply need to make sure that the SIM card is "activated".

I can put that SIM card into any unlocked phone I want that has the right
frequencies (which is most of the phones out there nowadays, it seems).

What else do you need _them_ to do for you for "setup"?

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#72956

On 02/01/2021 19.49, Arlen Holder wrote:
> What else do you need _them_ to do for you for "setup"?

Insert the SIM, answer the initial questions, create a google account,
transfer data from your previous phone... all those are typical.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#72977

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 20:38:13 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Insert the SIM, answer the initial questions, create a google account,
> transfer data from your previous phone... all those are typical.

Ah, the "transfer data from your previous phone" part is what most people
likely need.

Thanks for reminding me of that, as I do it naturally without any problems, 
but I understand that most people usually want a "clone" of the old phone.

Me?
1. I already have all the apps saved as APKs on a Windows mounted HDD
   <https://i.postimg.cc/bN875p8b/apk01.jpg>
   (Note that process is _automatic_ as it happens the instant I download
   and install the app (or its update version) whether I obtain the app
   from Google Play (i.e., Aurora Store) or from F-Droid (Aurora Droid).

2. I have the entire homescreen look & feel archived to a single file
   (via Nova free launcher, so the first thing I'd do is import that).

3. Then all I need to do is populate the new phone with the desired apps
   (each already has a placeholder in the imported Nova free launcher).

If I want to bring over the old "data", I just copy the two directories:
o Internal sdcard data === "0data"
o External sdcard data === "1data"

But I agree with you that most people might not know how to do all that.
-- 
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to help flesh out the answers.

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#72955

On 02/01/2021 16.40, AJL wrote:
> On 1/2/2021 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> When you buy a washing machine, a gas cooking range, a refrigerator,
>> an air conditioning unit, do you set it up yourself, or do you get a
>>  professional to do it for you? I guess the later.
> 
> My new phone (purchased online) should arrive in the mail in a few days.
> In the past I've bought my phones in a nearby phone store and had them
> set up there. It was very easy.
> 
> But times change. My phone store currently requires appointments because
> of Covid. And my local emergency rooms were turning away ambulances
> yesterday because there was no room. So I decided maybe it was wise to
> do it by mail this time. YMMV.

Oh, I can certainly setup my phone, no problem. All my phones I setup
myself, and then those of my friends or family if they ask :-)

Maybe my first phone I got some initial help from the clerk. Quite
probably he inserted the SIM card, I don't remember. And a friend helped
me with advice. Actually, it was him who told me to setup the google
account. I remember because I used my private mail account, and later I
thought I should have used a new one. Too late.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#72944

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 13:36:24 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Around here, maybe depending on the shop, now the clerk does not setup
> the phone, or asks written permission to do so.

Hi Carlos,

I have no beef from a technology standpoint of having someone else "set up"
your phone, but my worry is privacy. 

Then again, I help my neighbors with their rooftop WISP antennas where I
have the password to every single one of them, and they trust me. :)

And I help them with their repairs, and I help them cut down dead trees, 
and I help them with their pool chemicals, and I help them with their well
pumps, etc., and they trust me. :)

I also belay them down cliffs... and they trust me. :)
o Some people are trustworthy; so maybe the store clerk is as good as I?
 
> Depends on the point of view :-)

Understood.

Some people consider it a blessing that their personal contacts are
automatically uploaded to Google's servers.  I don't.

> When you buy a washing machine, a gas cooking range, a refrigerator, an
> air conditioning unit, do you set it up yourself, or do you get a
> professional to do it for you? I guess the later.

I don't know how you Europeans do things, but we Americans, at least those
of us who live in the mountains, do a _lot_ of our own work ourselves.

For example, I keep cars for 25 years, and they have never seen a mechanic
save for recalls and warranty repairs (when in the original warranty
period). The only time I have someone else install a kitchen or laundry
appliance is if the installation was already included in the cost (which it
is for Costco stuff, but when you move, you just install them yourselves in
the new home).

I'm told the Japanese were astounded when the Americans had Henderson Field
up and running in less time than the Japanese had forecast themselves (with
their Korean labor slaves) even _after_ the Americans bombed the hell out
of it and the Japanese, in turn, knocked the American Navy out of existence
for a critical month or two.

I'm told Hirohito asked why that could be the case, and I'm told he was
told that the Americans know how to fix stuff.

It's the same here... we know how to install and fix stuff, Carlos.
o At least I do.   It's how I was raised.  We prize American ingenuity.

It's likely, perhaps, maybe, the reason Silicon Valley does so much stuff.
o We Americans invent almost everything nowadays... don't we?

But I do understand your point of view that a lot of people aren't
technical, which is why the highly MARKETED solutions (which we Americans
_also_ invented!) are so appealing to the non-technical public.

I just feel sorry for someone who needs someone else to set up a phone.

> The normal thing to do is have a professional do at least the initial
> setup of any machine you buy. Why would we have to setup our computers
> ourselves, if we are not professionals?

As stated above, and as you are well aware, I am on the linux and windows
newsgroups, where I wouldn't even think of having someone else set up my
PC.

Yet, as I stated many times on those newsgroups, at least for Windows
users, I've set up plenty (I recently converted a bunch of Windows S
laptops to Windows Home, and documented the steps so others could too).

I just feel sorry for people who can't even set up their own PCs.

> Sync for Joplin is not mentioned as a key feature.
> I see:
> Pro: Dropbox support
> Can sync using Dropbox.
> Con: Sync issue under Linux 
> The Linux client has a bug that requires the user to click the mouse
> frequently in order for sync to proceed. This bug has been open for a while.
> Con: Sync issues on Windows
> No way to change account settings and sync easily corrupted.

Understood.
o Joplin was my off-the-cuff response to Keep given I don't use Google stuff.

I'm sure the "google sync" is seamless, just as the google uploading of
your private contacts is so seamless that I had to hunt for how they did it
in order to put a stop to it.

It's that seamless that they suck up your private data that you don't even
know how they did it sometimes (unless you look to see how they did it).

>> As far as I know, a USB stick in a SMBv3 port on a SOHO router works 
>> fine away from home (if you have a static IP address as I have).
> 
> But most people do not.

Agreed.

> I don't. I have a dynamic name host, so I can reach my IP of the time.
> But I am paranoid about its security, and I tell you that remote sync
> will not work with it. Not as normally understood, it is a complex
> procedure.

Understood.

> It is normal to take a quick note on the phone, then continue write the
> complex part on the computer. Or the reverse, you prepare the note on
> the computer first, then use them on the street. If you have the
> feature, you use it. If you never try, you don't miss it :-)

Understood, although a text file works on all platforms, does it not?
o All it has to be is "saved & accessible" when & where you need it.

Note: I worked in software & hardware in the Silicon Valley for decades,
Carlos, so rest assured I'm well aware of what we'll just call "design
management", which is just about as complex as it can be when it comes
to managing permissions and users and file locking and revision control.
 
I'm all for the simplicity & portability of a simple text file. :)

>> I'm not so sure it's "as transparent" on iOS, MacOS, Windows, & Linux.
> 
> Oh, many people login to Google on their computers most of the time.
> They may do it for reading email on the browser, which means they are
> automatically in for youtube or any other "app" on the browser.

Understood, although I use YouTube alternatives on all platforms, such that
I keep my IP address and what I watch and search for and subscribe to out
of Google's paws (as much as I can).

But I do understand and agree that most people do not.

In fact, when setting up other people's computers, I'm always shocked that
when I go to "maps.google.com" it essentially knows where they live (even
more so than from a simple geolocation of their IP address would get them).

I still don't know how Google does _that_ as it doesn't do it for me. :)

> I don't. If I have to, I use a separate Firefox profile, so that google
> can not track my every browser activity connected to my email and actual
> person.

I wrote a tutorial, Carlos, on how to set up browsers such that each
browser does one thing and one thing only, for just this purpose.
o Discussion of two different privacy-related browser philosophies
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/H4694--5znY>

Essentially, you break what you do into about a dozen tasks...
o And then you set up one browser each for each of those dozen tasks.

It takes a lot of browsers though... :)
o Links to full offline installers (not stubs) to all known freeware web browsers
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/krNaXA-YEbw>

> Similarly I use different profiles each for Amazon, Facebook, etc.

Understood and agreed, where I'd use different browsers altogether.
o (see philosophy described above)

> Ah, and I refuse to use Facebook on the phone. I remove the app.

Understood and agreed as I do likewise.
o Google, Apple, Microsoft & Facebook are essentially banned...

Although, for Android, banning Google is problematic...
o And banning Microsoft on Windows is problematic... 

Just as I banned "Unity" on Canonical's Ubuntu
o And as I shun Apple crapware on my iOS devices

Where I have many threads, as you're aware, on the topics of doing so.

> Spain. Yes, your agencies also spy on us over here.

Understood.
o And agreed.

BTW, I admire Franco was one of the few men who stood up to Hitler
o Just as Tito stood up to Stalin

Hitler was said to have claimed he'd rather get a tooth pulled 
than visit Franco to ask again he take Gibraltar for him. :)

Likewise, we all need to stand up to the well funded TLAs
o And the well-funded MARKETING organizations (IMHO).
-- 
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to discuss adult topics.

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#72957

On 02/01/2021 18.09, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 13:36:24 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> Around here, maybe depending on the shop, now the clerk does not setup
>> the phone, or asks written permission to do so.
> 
> Hi Carlos,
> 
> I have no beef from a technology standpoint of having someone else "set up"
> your phone, but my worry is privacy. 
> 
> Then again, I help my neighbors with their rooftop WISP antennas where I
> have the password to every single one of them, and they trust me. :)
> 
> And I help them with their repairs, and I help them cut down dead trees, 
> and I help them with their pool chemicals, and I help them with their well
> pumps, etc., and they trust me. :)
> 
> I also belay them down cliffs... and they trust me. :)
> o Some people are trustworthy; so maybe the store clerk is as good as I?

Maybe the person doesn't want to bother a friend with the request and
owe him/her a favour? :-D

There is no reason to distrust a clerk at a reputable store. They will
not type your password and keep it, they are not interested :-)

In fact, people may trust the clerk more than a friend, because they
want to keep somethings private out from their friends prying eyes and
hands. And gossip. An unknown is nobody, doesn't matter what they get to
know.

Of course, this is not always so.

>  
>> Depends on the point of view :-)
> 
> Understood.
> 
> Some people consider it a blessing that their personal contacts are
> automatically uploaded to Google's servers.  I don't.

Who cares? I might care, but it is pointless when many of my contacts
already have google accounts, use facebook, etc. I gave up.


>> When you buy a washing machine, a gas cooking range, a refrigerator, an
>> air conditioning unit, do you set it up yourself, or do you get a
>> professional to do it for you? I guess the later.
> 
> I don't know how you Europeans do things, but we Americans, at least those
> of us who live in the mountains, do a _lot_ of our own work ourselves.
> 
> For example, I keep cars for 25 years, and they have never seen a mechanic
> save for recalls and warranty repairs (when in the original warranty
> period). The only time I have someone else install a kitchen or laundry
> appliance is if the installation was already included in the cost (which it
> is for Costco stuff, but when you move, you just install them yourselves in
> the new home).

Here, it is forbidden that the owner installs the gas appliances. You
need a certified installer and a periodical inspection for leaks and
compliance. They even do a test of the exhaust from the hot water flash
boiler to verify that it burns properly. I simply don't have the
equipment, and certainly I don't have the certifications.

As for other stuff, the warranty on the machines may be voided if not
installed by a proper technician. The washing machine I would not have
been able to move it myself, so...  The air conditioner also needs a
certified technician to handle those gases, which are controlled
substances sometimes. Other AC units may use flammable gasses. There are
papers to sign.

...

>> Sync for Joplin is not mentioned as a key feature.
>> I see:
>> Pro: Dropbox support
>> Can sync using Dropbox.
>> Con: Sync issue under Linux 
>> The Linux client has a bug that requires the user to click the mouse
>> frequently in order for sync to proceed. This bug has been open for a while.
>> Con: Sync issues on Windows
>> No way to change account settings and sync easily corrupted.
> 
> Understood.
> o Joplin was my off-the-cuff response to Keep given I don't use Google stuff.

Oh, I'm certainly interested in that application, I might set it up for me.


>> It is normal to take a quick note on the phone, then continue write the
>> complex part on the computer. Or the reverse, you prepare the note on
>> the computer first, then use them on the street. If you have the
>> feature, you use it. If you never try, you don't miss it :-)
> 
> Understood, although a text file works on all platforms, does it not?
> o All it has to be is "saved & accessible" when & where you need it.

It is the saving to somewhere accessible which is the difficulty, and
the beauty of the "cloud". I certainly can do without, but I appreciate
the niceties.


>>> I'm not so sure it's "as transparent" on iOS, MacOS, Windows, & Linux.
>>
>> Oh, many people login to Google on their computers most of the time.
>> They may do it for reading email on the browser, which means they are
>> automatically in for youtube or any other "app" on the browser.
> 
> Understood, although I use YouTube alternatives on all platforms, such that
> I keep my IP address and what I watch and search for and subscribe to out
> of Google's paws (as much as I can).
> 
> But I do understand and agree that most people do not.

Some do intentionally log into youtube so that it keeps their history of
what they see and the AI suggests to them new cute cat videos to watch :-)

I don't.


> In fact, when setting up other people's computers, I'm always shocked that
> when I go to "maps.google.com" it essentially knows where they live (even
> more so than from a simple geolocation of their IP address would get them).
> 
> I still don't know how Google does _that_ as it doesn't do it for me. :)

It depends on the IP mapping of their internet supplier. Some are better
mapped than others.



>> Similarly I use different profiles each for Amazon, Facebook, etc.
> 
> Understood and agreed, where I'd use different browsers altogether.
> o (see philosophy described above)

It is effectively different browsers. Different PID.

> 
>> Ah, and I refuse to use Facebook on the phone. I remove the app.
> 
> Understood and agreed as I do likewise.
> o Google, Apple, Microsoft & Facebook are essentially banned...
> 
> Although, for Android, banning Google is problematic...
> o And banning Microsoft on Windows is problematic... 

Linux.

> 
> Just as I banned "Unity" on Canonical's Ubuntu
> o And as I shun Apple crapware on my iOS devices
> 
> Where I have many threads, as you're aware, on the topics of doing so.
> 
>> Spain. Yes, your agencies also spy on us over here.
> 
> Understood.
> o And agreed.
> 
> BTW, I admire Franco was one of the few men who stood up to Hitler
> o Just as Tito stood up to Stalin

Huh, no, he did not. He was similar to him.

> 
> Hitler was said to have claimed he'd rather get a tooth pulled 
> than visit Franco to ask again he take Gibraltar for him. :)

he was bored to hell by him, he talked to much.

> 
> Likewise, we all need to stand up to the well funded TLAs
> o And the well-funded MARKETING organizations (IMHO).
> 


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#72959

On 1/2/2021 1:01 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> There is no reason to distrust a clerk at a reputable store. They
> will not type your password and keep it, they are not interested :-)

In my past phone purchases the store clerk has always handed me back the
phones (both old and new) for me to enter my password when required.

> In fact, people may trust the clerk more than a friend, because they
> want to keep somethings private out from their friends prying eyes
> and hands. And gossip. An unknown is nobody, doesn't matter what they
> get to know.

And then in my presence the clerk plugged both phones into a box for the
data transfer. So nothing private (password or data) was ever exposed to
the clerk.

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#72961

On 02/01/2021 22.36, AJL wrote:
> On 1/2/2021 1:01 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> There is no reason to distrust a clerk at a reputable store. They
>> will not type your password and keep it, they are not interested :-)
> 
> In my past phone purchases the store clerk has always handed me back the
> phones (both old and new) for me to enter my password when required.

Right.

>> In fact, people may trust the clerk more than a friend, because they
>> want to keep somethings private out from their friends prying eyes
>> and hands. And gossip. An unknown is nobody, doesn't matter what they
>> get to know.
> 
> And then in my presence the clerk plugged both phones into a box for the
> data transfer. So nothing private (password or data) was ever exposed to
> the clerk.

Yes, details depends on the shop and the brand.

Here, on one shop at least, by default the clerk will not do anything,
unless you ask specifically.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#72974

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 21:01:49 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> Some people consider it a blessing that their personal contacts are
>> automatically uploaded to Google's servers.  I don't.
> 
> Who cares? I might care, but it is pointless when many of my contacts
> already have google accounts, use facebook, etc. I gave up.

Hi Carlos,

You bring up good points where neither one of us disagrees on the facts
o Since we both agree on facts, we can reasonably disagree on assessments

My assessment is that it sucks that my neighbors are too stupid to _not_
upload my contact data, and that of my kids and their kids, to Google.

I'm intelligent enough _not_ to upload _their_ kid's data to Google...
o Why can't they extend the same intelligence quotient to me?

Likewise with photos of my kids (we do a lot of neighborhood hikes, for
example), and likewise with my access points and unique BSSID.

It irks me that my own neighbors give my private information to Google
simply because _they_ are too stupid to know how to set up a phone.

NOTE: I certainly know about "nomap" but it's still _uploaded_ to Google
Servers (Google says they won't put it on their external database though).

> Here, it is forbidden that the owner installs the gas appliances. 

Wow. Really? That's like forbidding the owner to install a light bulb.
o Here we can install anything we want (AFAIK).

Some things need a "permit", e.g., a gas water heater needs to have 
earthquake straps, vents covering the flame, a vent in the top going to the
roof, shutoff valves for the water coming in, an overflow safety valve &
pipe that goes down to just above floor level, a check valve in the yellow
crinkle hose, always a brand new crinkle hose every time, a shutoff valve
dedicated to the water heater, and a step of something like 18 inches to
keep the flame away from the heavier-than-air natural gas in case of a
leak, etc.

What I do, since I happen to know all this stuff, is replace the water
heater myself, and then I just make sure it "would" pass a permit check.

If they ever bothered to check, it would pass. I haven't hooked up a gas
dryer or a gas stove in a while, but I'd do the same thing.

It's just plumbing. 
o It's not rocket science.

In fact, recently I advised a friend how to hook up his gas appliances and
his wife smelled a leak, so he called me, and I told him to do 3 things:
1. Close the gas valve
2. Open all the windows
3. Call PG&E immediately

Much to their surprise, PG&E was there in 10 minutes, which even I was
surprised, where the homeowner explained he just hooked up an appliance,
and the PG&E guy found that he accidentally disturbed a secondary valve.

The PG&E call was free, and the guy used a "sniffer" to confirm that 
shutting the valve worked to block the gas, and he told the homeowner
he did the right thing by opening up the windows & shutting the gas off
and then calling him.

That's how we do things in the USA.

Note: I have my own propane tanks to heat up the pool and the house, 
so I don't know if I called my propane supplier whether the call would
be free or not, but the point is that we have it figured out in the USA.

> You
> need a certified installer and a periodical inspection for leaks and
> compliance. They even do a test of the exhaust from the hot water flash
> boiler to verify that it burns properly. I simply don't have the
> equipment, and certainly I don't have the certifications.

Here, in the USA, as far as I know, at least in California, you can do
anything you want as long as it's to code. The codes are specified, so it's
not rocket science to figure out the code. 

Interestingly, a _lot_ of people build stuff that is _not_ to code out here
in the mountains, and as long as they get along well with their neighbors,
nobody says anything. 

But some people are nasty with their neighbors, and then the neighbors rat
on them and then the county redtags the premise if it's really bad. 

If it's not really bad, the just make it such that the owner can never get
another permit until they satisfy the old permits, where more than once
I've seen people had to knock down entire structures (out here, we're in a
special district that has to be "beautiful" so we can't have any structures
with 100 feet of the road, for example, so we have a _lot_ of extra codes
to deal with. 

We can't even cut down a live or dead tree without a permit, if that tree
is a foot wide at about chest high, but everyone does it, and, as always,
as long as your neighbors don't rat you out, who is gonna know?

California is strange though, as it's a nanny state.

> As for other stuff, the warranty on the machines may be voided if not
> installed by a proper technician. The washing machine I would not have
> been able to move it myself, so...  The air conditioner also needs a
> certified technician to handle those gases, which are controlled
> substances sometimes. Other AC units may use flammable gasses. There are
> papers to sign.

Ah. AC. I think we have rules on who can recharge and recycle A/C, but I'm
not sure as I haven't recharged an automotive A/C in quite a long while
myself.

We certainly have rules on A/C (particularly for recycling), of that I'm
sure; but I'm not sure if it has to be a "certified" technician (who are
usually just high-school-educated kids who couldn't go to college, IMHO, so
I don't put much stock in technicians myself, personally, as it's not
rocket science if you can read the codes).

Again, here in the mountains anyway, we in the USA do it the American way.
o Ourselves

>> o Joplin was my off-the-cuff response to Keep given I don't use Google stuff.
> 
> Oh, I'm certainly interested in that application, I might set it up for me.

I installed Joplin but I haven't used it, where I "think" it was intended
to be a FOSS replacement for Evernote, more so than for Google Keep.

And others seem to exist, e.g., this Google Keep review suggests:
o Joplin
o Zoho Notebook
o Microsoft OneNote
<https://au.pcmag.com/software/84425/google-keep>

Even so, I saw when I was researching Joplin plenty of tutorials on
converting Google Keep to Joplin, where each has its own advantages
(e.g., Joplin apparently allows markup & reputedly handles complexity).

For example, this is dated December 2020, so it's up to date (we hope)
o Moving notes from Google Keep to Joplin
<https://blog.jfx.ac/moving-notes-from-google-keep-to-joplin.html>

There are also decent tutorials for migrating Google Keep to Evernote:
o How to transfer Notes from Google Keep to Evernote
<https://www.guidingtech.com/transfer-notes-google-keep-evernote/>

While this lists a ton of other notetaking apps for Android & iOS:
o Best note taking apps of 2020
<https://www.tomsguide.com/round-up/best-note-taking-apps>
o Evernote
o OneNote
o Google Keep
o Notion
o MyScript Nebo
o Dropbox Paper
o Joplin
o Standard Note
o Notebook
o SimpleNote
o Bear
o Notes
o Noteshelf
o Penultimate
o Notability
o Squid

I generally prefer the FOSS stuff myself
o Especially since it's free and presumably works on all platforms

First step, of course, is to export your data from Google Keep:
o <https://support.google.com/keep/answer/10017039>

Which, this being the EOY, isn't a bad idea for archival purposes.
 
>> Understood, although a text file works on all platforms, does it not?
>> o All it has to be is "saved & accessible" when & where you need it.
> 
> It is the saving to somewhere accessible which is the difficulty, and
> the beauty of the "cloud". I certainly can do without, but I appreciate
> the niceties.

Understood. 

The cloud is "handy" just as a chain saw is handy
o They both have their inherent dangers though

> Some do intentionally log into youtube so that it keeps their history of
> what they see and the AI suggests to them new cute cat videos to watch :-)
> 
> I don't.

Just so you know, NewPipe can be set to save its own YouTube history
o That way your history isn't known to Google (AFAIK)

Between you and me, given you seem to comprehend the difference between
Android aficionados versus the average Android user, if someone uses
YouTube, I think they're just crazy, given NewPipe is just about everything
anyone would want in a YouTube replacement app.

If they're using YouTube, they can only be either ignorant, or stupid (IMHO).
o But maybe I'm too harsh on the ignorati. :)

>> In fact, when setting up other people's computers, I'm always shocked that
>> when I go to "maps.google.com" it essentially knows where they live (even
>> more so than from a simple geolocation of their IP address would get them).
>> 
>> I still don't know how Google does _that_ as it doesn't do it for me. :)
> 
> It depends on the IP mapping of their internet supplier. Some are better
> mapped than others.

It can't really be "just" that as most of us in the mountains use one of
three or four WISP suppliers (we don't have any cable in our mountains).

But maybe it's that simple, as when I'm off VPN, it knows my general area.

>>> Similarly I use different profiles each for Amazon, Facebook, etc.
>> 
>> Understood and agreed, where I'd use different browsers altogether.
>> o (see philosophy described above)
> 
> It is effectively different browsers. Different PID.

Understood.
o And agreed.

Not many people would want the "complexity" of dealing with multiple
browsers, which I don't have any problem with - but others might.

>> BTW, I admire Franco was one of the few men who stood up to Hitler
>> o Just as Tito stood up to Stalin
> 
> Huh, no, he did not. He was similar to him.

You may not know this, but I'm a self-described history buff...
o Where I try to study dictators, in particular, to see why they work 

For some countries, without the kind of independent spirit we have in the
USA, a dictator is actually a good thing, at times, e.g., for
Spain/Yugoslavia (at least from the 30s to the 70s perhaps).

History is a difficult subject to debate as is technology since we have to
start with the facts.

IMHO, both Caudillo & Broz committed brutal repressions early on, but who
enabled disassociate peoples to "get along" with resulting economic
prosperity and quality of life improvements due to both forming deeply
centralized authoritarian government and nationalistic policy (which went
the hell in Yugoslavia the instant Tito died).

Neither would win any awards for "human rights" achievements though. 

>> Hitler was said to have claimed he'd rather get a tooth pulled 
>> than visit Franco to ask again he take Gibraltar for him. :)
> 
> he was bored to hell by him, he talked to much.

Interesting.
o I wasn't aware of that but I don't doubt that you would know more than I.

Franco did supply the Nazi's (via Himmler) with a "list of Spanish Jews"
though, which shows Caudillo wasn't so standoffish as some might have
thought (I doubt Tito would have ever done that, for example).

Franco played both sides in WWII, and for that, he deserves less respect,
IMHO, than, oh, say, the British, who were always faithful to their allies.

In keeping with the comparison, Tito definitely played both sides, just as
Caudillo did, so neither wins any awards for being loyal friends to anyone.
-- 
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to discuss topics of interest.

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