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Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025

From Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Newsgroups misc.phone.mobile.iphone, uk.telecom.mobile, comp.mobile.android
Subject Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025
Date 2025-01-06 10:15 +1300
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <vlesom$179lq$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <37hlnj9umclsptlusehseecuv4i1j7taon@4ax.com> <vlegjv$14uoa$1@dont-email.me> <9ailnj5qvtucja0mm3t40l8aba1h83fnnm@4ax.com> <ASw*sPR3z@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> <klrlnj103vrnks585s4o4e01ptdfgm2bp4@4ax.com>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On 2025-01-05 20:44:40 +0000, Scott said:
> On 05 Jan 2025 20:19:22 +0000 (GMT), Theo
> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> In uk.telecom.mobile Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:47:44 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:33:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:45:14 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>>>>>>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Pamela wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Wasn't there also a requirement for the battery to be user replaceable?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Not in effect for a couple of years, I think ...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> https://environment.ec.europa.eu/news/new-law-more-sustainable-circular-and-safe-batteries-enters-force-2023-08-17_en 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 2027, though I can?t find an exact date. Not just phones either.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Electric vehicles?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I don?t think so. Things like power tools, radios, toothbrushes etc. A 
>>>>>> user replaceable EV battery could be quite a dangerous affair.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It might improve the residual value though.
>>>> 
>>>> Unlikely. Batteries are around £2500 per 10kWhr retail judging by the 
>>>> cost of a house battery.
>>> 
>>> Would it not allow an aftermarket for generic batteries instead of
>>> being bound by the OEM? I was offered a second hand Zoe at a very low
>>> price at one stage but when I realised the battery arrangements (lease
>>> from Renault) and the very low range of such a model I dismissed the
>>> idea very quickly.
>> 
>> EV batteries weigh about 200kg.  Consumers aren't going to be changing them
>> because they don't have the lifting gear (hydraulic lifts and scissor
>> tables).  If you have gear unscrewing them from the bottom of the vehicle is
>> not complicated, although could be dangerous without safety precautions.  In
>> no world are consumers going to be changing them like they change wiper
>> blades.
>> 
>> Batteries are designed to fit the car so you need to swap in an OEM battery
>> - just like engines it may theoretically be possible to swap something else,
>> but it's a lot of work (mechanically, electrically and software).  There is
>> no standard 1.6 engine that'll fit in every car, and batteries are similarly
>> bespoke.
> 
> That puts paid to the idea of having a standard battery for all the
> cars and swapping them from underneath at the filling station using a
> mechanical arm as was suggested at one time :-)

There are already some battery pack swapping robot places for EV cars 
and it can be done in five minutes or less, although it depends on the 
car model, etc. and reportedly is expensive. Most of these places are 
currently in China, but there are a few in other places (California has 
a few Nio swap stations).

At one point there was the idea of having multiple smaller battery 
packs that could be easily user swappable in the same simple "plug 'n' 
play" way as many electric tools. It was also suggest the small battery 
packs could be swapped at places like supermarkets and petrol stations 
(deposit a flat battery, take a full one, and the flat battery is 
recharged for another user). This idea hasn't been taken up by any 
manufacturer yet.

Part of the problem is the cvar manufacturers all having their own 
designs for the battery packs and how they are fitted. There would need 
to be a standardisation before easy battery swapping became a real 
possibility.

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EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Isaac Montara <IsaacMontara@nospam.com> - 2025-01-03 00:09 -0500
  Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> - 2025-01-03 09:47 +0000
    Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-01-03 10:04 +0000
      Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> - 2025-01-03 10:08 +0000
        Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-01-03 11:33 +0000
          Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-03 13:12 +0000
            Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-03 19:03 +0000
              Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-03 11:22 -0800
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2025-01-08 13:46 -0500
        Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-03 13:12 +0000
      Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> - 2025-01-03 10:14 +0000
        Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> - 2025-01-03 10:29 +0000
          Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-03 13:20 +0000
            Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Andrew <andys@nospam.com> - 2025-01-03 19:07 +0000
              Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-03 11:22 -0800
        Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:17 +0000
          Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-05 16:29 +0000
            Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:45 +0000
              Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> - 2025-01-05 17:25 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 17:33 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> - 2025-01-05 17:44 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 17:47 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> - 2025-01-05 18:05 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-01-05 20:19 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> - 2025-01-05 20:44 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-01-06 10:15 +1300
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-05 22:29 +0100
  Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-08 21:02 +0100
    Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-08 12:20 -0800
      Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-08 22:44 +0100
    Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-08 20:37 +0000
      Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> - 2025-01-08 20:44 +0000
        Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-08 22:57 +0100
      Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-01-09 16:22 +0000
        Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-09 20:46 +0100
          Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-01-09 20:49 +0000
            Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-09 22:01 +0100
              Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-01-10 00:36 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-09 17:52 -0800
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-10 04:17 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-01-10 06:43 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-10 00:47 -0800
              Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-10 15:47 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-10 20:29 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-01-10 21:20 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-10 22:42 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-01-10 23:13 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-11 03:18 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-01-11 05:18 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-11 15:27 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-01-11 17:32 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2025-01-13 18:00 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-13 09:15 -0800
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2025-01-14 11:41 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-01-14 13:17 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2025-01-14 16:16 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-01-14 20:55 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-14 14:07 -0800
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-14 16:11 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-01-14 20:52 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-14 20:00 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-14 23:11 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-15 07:01 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-15 11:22 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-15 13:23 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> - 2025-01-14 09:56 -0700
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-13 23:22 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-14 07:46 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-14 13:33 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-14 14:26 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-14 23:05 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-01-23 04:03 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-22 20:31 -0800
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-14 17:54 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-14 23:05 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-15 21:36 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-01-23 04:14 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-22 20:32 -0800
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-23 10:20 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-01-10 21:15 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-01-10 17:16 -0600
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-11 22:19 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-01-12 16:38 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-12 21:31 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-01-12 22:36 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-13 07:37 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Siard <xx@xx.invalid> - 2025-01-13 11:32 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2025-01-13 18:09 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-13 09:13 -0800
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-13 20:35 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-13 23:32 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-13 21:31 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-01-14 07:18 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-14 07:37 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2025-01-13 18:05 +0100
  Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-25 12:13 -0800
    Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Isaac Montara <IsaacMontara@nospam.com> - 2025-01-25 17:39 -0500
      Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-25 16:59 -0800
        Re: EU new labelling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-26 03:22 +0100
        Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Isaac Montara <IsaacMontara@nospam.com> - 2025-01-25 21:44 -0500
          Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-25 19:57 -0800
          Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-26 17:39 -0800
            Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-27 12:57 +0100
              Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-27 10:31 -0800
              Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-01-28 10:25 +1300
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Peter <confused@nospam.net> - 2025-01-27 21:38 +0000
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-27 13:56 -0800
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-28 01:39 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-27 16:41 -0800
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-28 12:38 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-28 12:39 -0800
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-28 23:21 +0100
                Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-01-28 14:35 -0800
          Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025 Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-27 07:32 +0000

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