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Everybody should read support emails

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  Everybody should read support emails RS Wood  <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2019-03-05 21:39 -0500
    Re: Everybody should read support emails Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-03-06 10:17 +0000
      Re: Everybody should read support emails The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2019-03-06 09:11 -0800
    Re: Everybody should read support emails Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-03-06 11:42 +0000
    Re: Everybody should read support emails Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2019-03-06 14:30 +0000
      Re: Everybody should read support emails Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2019-03-06 14:43 -0400
        Re: Everybody should read support emails Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2019-03-06 21:36 +0000
          Re: Everybody should read support emails Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-03-06 21:53 +0000
            Re: Everybody should read support emails kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2019-03-13 10:15 -0400
          Re: Everybody should read support emails Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2019-03-06 19:22 -0400

#17504 — Everybody should read support emails

From the «Dear Asshat» department:
Title: Everyone should read support emails
Author: stuffhq
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2019 06:31:26 -0500
Link: https://medium.com/@simonschultzdk/why-everyone-should-read-support-emails-42ca2172e23e

Article URL:
https://medium.com/@simonschultzdk/why-everyone-should-read-support-emails-42ca2172e23e[1]

Comments URL: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19300458[2]

Points: 487

# Comments: 208

Links:
[1]: https://medium.com/@simonschultzdk/why-everyone-should-read-support-emails-42ca2172e23e (link)
[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19300458 (link)

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#17505

On 2019-03-06, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> From the «Dear Asshat» department:
> Title: Everyone should read support emails
> Author: stuffhq
> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2019 06:31:26 -0500
> Link: https://medium.com/@simonschultzdk/why-everyone-should-read-support-emails-42ca2172e23e
>
> Article URL:
> https://medium.com/@simonschultzdk/why-everyone-should-read-support-emails-42ca2172e23e[1]

I'm afraid all that achieves is make you realise just how stupid people
are.

-- 
Today is Setting Orange, the 65th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3185
'O you who turn the wheel and look to windward, Consider Phlebas,
            who was once handsome and tall as you.'

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#17508

On 03/06/2019 02:17 AM, Huge wrote:
> On 2019-03-06, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
>> From the «Dear Asshat» department:
>> Title: Everyone should read support emails
>> Author: stuffhq
>> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2019 06:31:26 -0500
>> Link: https://medium.com/@simonschultzdk/why-everyone-should-read-support-emails-42ca2172e23e
>>
>> Article URL:
>> https://medium.com/@simonschultzdk/why-everyone-should-read-support-emails-42ca2172e23e[1]
>
> I'm afraid all that achieves is make you realise just how stupid people
> are.

Yes.  And I would think that people who make things would need to know 
exactly how stupid their customers are so they can take advantage of it. 
  Oh, wait...


-- 
Cheers, Bev
   Always carry a length of fiber-optic cable in your pocket.  Should
   you be shipwrecked and find yourself stranded on a desert island,
   bury the cable in the sand.  A few hours later, a guy driving a
   backhoe will be along to dig it up.  Ask him to rescue you.

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#17506

RS Wood  <rsw@therandymon.com> writes:
> From the «Dear Asshat» department:
> Title: Everyone should read support emails
> Author: stuffhq
> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2019 06:31:26 -0500
> Link:
> https://medium.com/@simonschultzdk/why-everyone-should-read-support-emails-42ca2172e23e

We have an informal escalation channel which goes to a wide audience,
but it excludes things that our support team can deal without
engineering involvement. As well as providing accelerated resolution of
many issues, it does indeed provide some useful insights into customer
needs, although it’s likely that this channel has some bias - and the
biggest customer pain points I’ve learned of have generally come through
more formal channels.

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#17507

RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> From the «Dear Asshat» department:
> Title: Everyone should read support emails
> Author: stuffhq
> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2019 06:31:26 -0500
> Link: https://medium.com/@simonschultzdk/why-everyone-should-read-support-emails-42ca2172e23e
> 
> Article URL:
> https://medium.com/@simonschultzdk/why-everyone-should-read-support-emails-42ca2172e23e[1]
> 

Doing so allows one to see just how little knowledge of using a 
computer the general user-base has.  And as well just how much 
non-techies do not see as obvious the things we see as clearly obvious.

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#17509

Rich <rich@example.invalid> writes:

> Doing so allows one to see just how little knowledge of using a
> computer the general user-base has.  And as well just how much
> non-techies do not see as obvious the things we see as clearly
> obvious.

I have to say that the worst problems I've had have been with the
admins at various ISPs.  Even when I manage, with difficulty, to talk
to the actual system and network admins, I have to have diagnosed the
problem myself and spell out to them what is wrong before they can fix
it (or before I can wangle enough info from them to fix it myself).
As I'm a purely avocational techie, I don't Know Everything so it's
often onerous to do that.

Presently I have 2 ISPs.  One's contracted with a Large Corp provide
servers, connectivity etc.  The admins at Large Corp are clueless --
apparently they know how to install software correctly but very little
or nothing about how it actually works. One is a mom & pop with
servers, NOC etc. upstairs over a retail store in a small town.  The
admin only works 8/6 (not 24/7) but is clueful and even thanks me for
pointing out problems.  I only keep giving money to the former because
(whole 'nother can of worms) the telco periodically screws up access to
the mom & pop and I need the backup service.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

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#17510

Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
> Rich <rich@example.invalid> writes:
> 
>> Doing so allows one to see just how little knowledge of using a
>> computer the general user-base has.  And as well just how much
>> non-techies do not see as obvious the things we see as clearly
>> obvious.
> 
> ...
> Presently I have 2 ISPs.  One's contracted with a Large Corp provide
> servers, connectivity etc.  The admins at Large Corp are clueless --
> apparently they know how to install software correctly but very little
> or nothing about how it actually works.

Sadly, the "job requirements" for being an "admin" at many "large 
corps" amounts to having an "MSCE" certificate.

Unfortunately, the 'training' for MSCE's often seems to only consist of 
which set of tabs to access, and which checkboxes to turn on/turn off, 
within the various MSWin configuration dialog windows to achieve 
various end states on a windows machine.  So the result is 'clueless' 
admins that can't diagnose anything or make any fixes that are not 
already spelled out for them in a "go here, check/uncheck this" type 
document.

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#17511

On 2019-03-06, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

[snippage]

> Unfortunately, the 'training' for MSCE's often seems to only consist of 
> which set of tabs to access, and which checkboxes to turn on/turn off, 
> within the various MSWin configuration dialog windows to achieve 
> various end states on a windows machine.  So the result is 'clueless' 
> admins that can't diagnose anything or make any fixes that are not 
> already spelled out for them in a "go here, check/uncheck this" type 
> document.

*applause*

(And ditto lots of people with vendor "qualifications". They have no
idea about the fundamental principles.)



-- 
Today is Setting Orange, the 65th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3185
'O you who turn the wheel and look to windward, Consider Phlebas,
            who was once handsome and tall as you.'

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#17562

Huge  <usenet@huge.org.uk> wrote:
>On 2019-03-06, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, the 'training' for MSCE's often seems to only consist of 
>> which set of tabs to access, and which checkboxes to turn on/turn off, 
>> within the various MSWin configuration dialog windows to achieve 
>> various end states on a windows machine.  So the result is 'clueless' 
>> admins that can't diagnose anything or make any fixes that are not 
>> already spelled out for them in a "go here, check/uncheck this" type 
>> document.
>
>*applause*
>
>(And ditto lots of people with vendor "qualifications". They have no
>idea about the fundamental principles.)

For the most part, you can't really look inside Windows systems, and as
time goes by it becomes more and more difficult to see what is going on
inside of the box.  This being the case, having real diagnostic skills
and the ability to trace through the system is actually not very useful
for most Windows admins.  

Windows admins, being forced to treat the OS as a black box, generate a huge 
matrix in their head of problems and solutions.  And they use google to find 
new ones when they need to.

Don't blame the admins for not being able to read a crash dump anymore.
Blame the vendor for not letting anyone know what the crash dump data 
really is.
--scott
-- 
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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#17512

Rich <rich@example.invalid> writes:

> Sadly, the "job requirements" for being an "admin" at many "large 
> corps" amounts to having an "MSCE" certificate.
> 
> Unfortunately, the 'training' for MSCE's often seems to only consist of 
> which set of tabs to access, and which checkboxes to turn on/turn off, 
> within the various MSWin configuration dialog windows to achieve 
> various end states on a windows machine.  So the result is 'clueless' 
> admins that can't diagnose anything or make any fixes that are not 
> already spelled out for them in a "go here, check/uncheck this" type 
> document.

Shpx!  I didn't know that.  I've never been employed in IT myself but
over the last 30 years I've had various episodes of hanging out with
people that were.  I realize in retrospect that they were nearly all
wizard-level hackers, giving me a misguided notion of what to expect
from mill-run admins.  I should have had a clue when their names turn
up in the credits on major pieces of rock-solid software.


-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

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