Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.prolog > #14548 > unrolled thread

Biggest Nonsense are Run Buttons in SWISH Notebooks

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.prolog

Contents

  Biggest Nonsense are Run Buttons in SWISH Notebooks Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-15 03:40 +0200
    Theodore W. Gray Patent: 2029-01-09 Adjusted expiration (Was: Biggest Nonsense are Run Buttons in SWISH Notebooks) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-15 03:50 +0200
      Looks like they patented ChatGPT style in 2012 (Was: Theodore W. Gray Patent: 2029-01-09 Adjusted expiration) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-15 04:04 +0200
        Re: Looks like they patented ChatGPT style in 2012 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-06-15 09:29 +0200
          Re: Looks like they patented ChatGPT style in 2012 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-06-15 09:36 +0200
          REDUCE 1963 (Was: Looks like they patented ChatGPT style in 2012) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-15 13:52 +0200
            Best of both worlds / Franz Lisp GI/S (Was: REDUCE 1963) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-15 13:54 +0200
              Why forrays into web 2.0 are slow (Was: Best of both worlds / Franz Lisp GI/S) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-15 14:02 +0200
                Waste of time Java (not JavaScript) for Web (Was: Why forrays into web 2.0 are slow) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-15 14:10 +0200

#14548 — Biggest Nonsense are Run Buttons in SWISH Notebooks

Already Mathematica didn't have Run Buttons
in their Notebooks in 1988, just press return:

https://www.wolfram.com/notebooks/index.php.de?source=footer

Same for creating new cells, if I am not mistaken
and remember well, if one was at the end of a Notebook,

again the return key creates a new cell. Also no
Python Jupyter Nonsense, primarily executed at the

client side and not create via server roundtips.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#14549 — Theodore W. Gray Patent: 2029-01-09 Adjusted expiration (Was: Biggest Nonsense are Run Buttons in SWISH Notebooks)

Hi,

Ok, I am not in a hurry:

 > In a method for presenting information,
 > an interactive document, for example, may
 > be created that includes both an input
 > expression and a result generated by
 > evaluating the input expression, and where
 > the input expression can be selectively hidden.
 > https://patents.google.com/patent/US8407580

The fun thing will be the language will be
not Mathematica programming language, which was
inspired by term rewriting, basically a

term rewriting engine without Knuth Bendix
completion. Instead it will be run by the
Prolog programming language. Again a pragmatic

approach to logic without completness.
Isn't that an amazing perspective?

LoL

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:
> Already Mathematica didn't have Run Buttons
> in their Notebooks in 1988, just press return:
> 
> https://www.wolfram.com/notebooks/index.php.de?source=footer
> 
> Same for creating new cells, if I am not mistaken
> and remember well, if one was at the end of a Notebook,
> 
> again the return key creates a new cell. Also no
> Python Jupyter Nonsense, primarily executed at the
> 
> client side and not create via server roundtips.
> 
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#14550 — Looks like they patented ChatGPT style in 2012 (Was: Theodore W. Gray Patent: 2029-01-09 Adjusted expiration)

Hi,

So they came up with a patent already in 2012:

Programming in a precise syntax using natural language
https://patents.google.com/patent/US9851950B2

Is it not ChatGPT because ChatGPT doesn't show some
"precise syntax" interpretation of the NL language input?

Bye

P.S.: Google Gemini gives me:

Q: What is the integral of sin(x)/x from -pi to pi

A: a lot of precise mathML and ultimately:

Therefore, for your original integral: ≈3.7038

Conclusions: Either the patent is ignored,
or they get a penny for every nickel that
Google earns with Gemini Pro.

Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> Ok, I am not in a hurry:
> 
>  > In a method for presenting information,
>  > an interactive document, for example, may
>  > be created that includes both an input
>  > expression and a result generated by
>  > evaluating the input expression, and where
>  > the input expression can be selectively hidden.
>  > https://patents.google.com/patent/US8407580
> 
> The fun thing will be the language will be
> not Mathematica programming language, which was
> inspired by term rewriting, basically a
> 
> term rewriting engine without Knuth Bendix
> completion. Instead it will be run by the
> Prolog programming language. Again a pragmatic
> 
> approach to logic without completness.
> Isn't that an amazing perspective?
> 
> LoL
> 
> Bye
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Already Mathematica didn't have Run Buttons
>> in their Notebooks in 1988, just press return:
>>
>> https://www.wolfram.com/notebooks/index.php.de?source=footer
>>
>> Same for creating new cells, if I am not mistaken
>> and remember well, if one was at the end of a Notebook,
>>
>> again the return key creates a new cell. Also no
>> Python Jupyter Nonsense, primarily executed at the
>>
>> client side and not create via server roundtips.
>>
>>
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#14551 — Re: Looks like they patented ChatGPT style in 2012

On 15/06/2025 04:04, Mild Shock wrote:

> So they came up with a patent already in 2012:

<< The conceptual step of converting an abstract
representation (design or specification) of a software
system, into a more concrete representation in the form
of program code. >>

"Already" in 2012?  That's the most ridiculous as well
as the least original "invention" I have ever seen...

-Julio

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#14552 — Re: Looks like they patented ChatGPT style in 2012

On 15/06/2025 09:29, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
> On 15/06/2025 04:04, Mild Shock wrote:
> 
>> So they came up with a patent already in 2012:
> 
> << The conceptual step of converting an abstract
> representation (design or specification) of a software
> system, into a more concrete representation in the form
> of program code. >>
> 
> "Already" in 2012?  That's the most ridiculous as well
> as the least original "invention" I have ever seen...

Talking about this:

Stephen Wolfram, Theodore W. Gray,
"Programming in a precise syntax using natural language"
<https://patents.google.com/patent/US9851950B2>

And the whole cosmos is a computer system, of course!
They just cannot yet figure out who pays the bill...

Get the fuck out of here.

*Plonk*

-Julio

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#14553 — REDUCE 1963 (Was: Looks like they patented ChatGPT style in 2012)

Hi,

Maybe there is a strategy involved delaying
a start up and patents, until some stuff becomes hot.

Or delaying stuff until the required hardware
becomes affordable to everybody. Not an issue

for ChatGPT since it is anyway client server.
But you find GUIs for math symbolic systems

basically derived from REDUCE in the dozens!

 > The development of REDUCE was started in 1963 by
 > Anthony C. Hearn; since then, many scientists from
 > all over the world have contributed to its development.
 > REDUCE was open-sourced in December 2008 and is
 > available for free under a modified BSD license
 > on SourceForge. Previously it had cost $695.
 > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduce_%28computer_algebra_system%29

Bye

Julio Di Egidio schrieb:
> On 15/06/2025 04:04, Mild Shock wrote:
> 
>> So they came up with a patent already in 2012:
> 
> << The conceptual step of converting an abstract
> representation (design or specification) of a software
> system, into a more concrete representation in the form
> of program code. >>
> 
> "Already" in 2012?  That's the most ridiculous as well
> as the least original "invention" I have ever seen...
> 
> -Julio
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#14554 — Best of both worlds / Franz Lisp GI/S (Was: REDUCE 1963)

Hi,

Concerning notebooks, here is a Franz Lisp thingy
but not yet notebooks, a couple of document windows:

GI/S: A Graphical User Interface
For Symbolic Computation Systelns
Douglas A. Young and Paul S. Wang
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747717187800135

But notebooks are more tidy, aren't they? I basically
wish for a combination of both. Like a feature for

selecting an output cell and detach it from the notebook
into a separate window. This would be swell!

YouTube took a while to provide this for their videos,
mostlikely some notebooks can do that already.

Bye

P.S: The hardware spec of the GI/S host:
Although every attempt was made to keep the design of the
GI/S as device independent as possible, the choice of the
Tektronix 4404 naturally influenced the final design. The
4404 is equipped with 1.9 Megabytes of RAM, a 40 Megabyte
hard disk, and uses a 68000 based CPU running a Unix-like
operating system. The monochrome bitmapped graphics display
provides 480 by 640 pixels resolution on a 9.5 inch by 7.0
inch screen. The 4404 supports Franz Lisp [Foderaro, 1981],
Version 42, which adds flavors, packages, objects,
and other enhancements to Franz Lisp.

Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> Maybe there is a strategy involved delaying
> a start up and patents, until some stuff becomes hot.
> 
> Or delaying stuff until the required hardware
> becomes affordable to everybody. Not an issue
> 
> for ChatGPT since it is anyway client server.
> But you find GUIs for math symbolic systems
> 
> basically derived from REDUCE in the dozens!
> 
>  > The development of REDUCE was started in 1963 by
>  > Anthony C. Hearn; since then, many scientists from
>  > all over the world have contributed to its development.
>  > REDUCE was open-sourced in December 2008 and is
>  > available for free under a modified BSD license
>  > on SourceForge. Previously it had cost $695.
>  > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduce_%28computer_algebra_system%29
> 
> Bye
> 
> Julio Di Egidio schrieb:
>> On 15/06/2025 04:04, Mild Shock wrote:
>>
>>> So they came up with a patent already in 2012:
>>
>> << The conceptual step of converting an abstract
>> representation (design or specification) of a software
>> system, into a more concrete representation in the form
>> of program code. >>
>>
>> "Already" in 2012?  That's the most ridiculous as well
>> as the least original "invention" I have ever seen...
>>
>> -Julio
>>
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#14555 — Why forrays into web 2.0 are slow (Was: Best of both worlds / Franz Lisp GI/S)

Hi,

Interstingly JavaScript appeared already in 1995.
But it was mostoften totally ingnored as a means
for web 2.0, i.e. to include activity in a web site,

I guess the reason was speed, before Chrome V8
it was perceived as slow. Also with Chrome V8 people
shyed away because of transpilation effort.

What was winning more people was probably WASM,
here an example of REDUCE for the web:

Web REDUCE consists of a graphical user interface
(GUI) implemented using HTML, CSS and JavaScript
that runs a Wasm (WebAssembly) version of the
REDUCE engine developed by Arthur Norman and Avery Laird
https://reduce-algebra.sourceforge.io/web-reduce/about.php?start

I think it showed up in 2020.

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> Concerning notebooks, here is a Franz Lisp thingy
> but not yet notebooks, a couple of document windows:
> 
> GI/S: A Graphical User Interface
> For Symbolic Computation Systelns
> Douglas A. Young and Paul S. Wang
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747717187800135
> 
> But notebooks are more tidy, aren't they? I basically
> wish for a combination of both. Like a feature for
> 
> selecting an output cell and detach it from the notebook
> into a separate window. This would be swell!
> 
> YouTube took a while to provide this for their videos,
> mostlikely some notebooks can do that already.
> 
> Bye
> 
> P.S: The hardware spec of the GI/S host:
> Although every attempt was made to keep the design of the
> GI/S as device independent as possible, the choice of the
> Tektronix 4404 naturally influenced the final design. The
> 4404 is equipped with 1.9 Megabytes of RAM, a 40 Megabyte
> hard disk, and uses a 68000 based CPU running a Unix-like
> operating system. The monochrome bitmapped graphics display
> provides 480 by 640 pixels resolution on a 9.5 inch by 7.0
> inch screen. The 4404 supports Franz Lisp [Foderaro, 1981],
> Version 42, which adds flavors, packages, objects,
> and other enhancements to Franz Lisp.
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Maybe there is a strategy involved delaying
>> a start up and patents, until some stuff becomes hot.
>>
>> Or delaying stuff until the required hardware
>> becomes affordable to everybody. Not an issue
>>
>> for ChatGPT since it is anyway client server.
>> But you find GUIs for math symbolic systems
>>
>> basically derived from REDUCE in the dozens!
>>
>>  > The development of REDUCE was started in 1963 by
>>  > Anthony C. Hearn; since then, many scientists from
>>  > all over the world have contributed to its development.
>>  > REDUCE was open-sourced in December 2008 and is
>>  > available for free under a modified BSD license
>>  > on SourceForge. Previously it had cost $695.
>>  > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduce_%28computer_algebra_system%29
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> Julio Di Egidio schrieb:
>>> On 15/06/2025 04:04, Mild Shock wrote:
>>>
>>>> So they came up with a patent already in 2012:
>>>
>>> << The conceptual step of converting an abstract
>>> representation (design or specification) of a software
>>> system, into a more concrete representation in the form
>>> of program code. >>
>>>
>>> "Already" in 2012?  That's the most ridiculous as well
>>> as the least original "invention" I have ever seen...
>>>
>>> -Julio
>>>
>>
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#14556 — Waste of time Java (not JavaScript) for Web (Was: Why forrays into web 2.0 are slow)

Hi,

There was a lot of distraction with Java
Appelts, which are now dead. And probably
some people tried even JavaFX standalone
for better graphics:

 > In Autumn 2019 I began developing a new desktop
 > GUI for REDUCE called Run-REDUCE, written in
 > Java, which I continue to work on sporadically.
 > After writing a prototype using the Swing
 > graphics library I switched to JavaFX.
https://sites.google.com/site/fjwcentaur/home

But the web version looks fun. No need to
install a Java runtime and a now separate JavaFX
package. Or fetch some installer that gives you

both togethe with the application. Just take a
browser and a local HTTPs server:

 > Typeset mathematics is output using LaTeX
 > code generated by the REDUCE tmprint package
 > and rendered by the MathJax JavaScript library,
 > which is also used elsewhere on the REDUCE web site.
 >
 > Plotting is provided by Gnuplot compiled to
 > WebAssembly using Emscripten, based on work
 > by CD Clark III. The code to call Web Gnuplot
 > from Web REDUCE is based on work by Hermann Rolfes.

https://reduce-algebra.sourceforge.io/web-reduce/about.php?start

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> Interstingly JavaScript appeared already in 1995.
> But it was mostoften totally ingnored as a means
> for web 2.0, i.e. to include activity in a web site,
> 
> I guess the reason was speed, before Chrome V8
> it was perceived as slow. Also with Chrome V8 people
> shyed away because of transpilation effort.
> 
> What was winning more people was probably WASM,
> here an example of REDUCE for the web:
> 
> Web REDUCE consists of a graphical user interface
> (GUI) implemented using HTML, CSS and JavaScript
> that runs a Wasm (WebAssembly) version of the
> REDUCE engine developed by Arthur Norman and Avery Laird
> https://reduce-algebra.sourceforge.io/web-reduce/about.php?start
> 
> I think it showed up in 2020.
> 
> Bye
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Concerning notebooks, here is a Franz Lisp thingy
>> but not yet notebooks, a couple of document windows:
>>
>> GI/S: A Graphical User Interface
>> For Symbolic Computation Systelns
>> Douglas A. Young and Paul S. Wang
>> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747717187800135
>>
>> But notebooks are more tidy, aren't they? I basically
>> wish for a combination of both. Like a feature for
>>
>> selecting an output cell and detach it from the notebook
>> into a separate window. This would be swell!
>>
>> YouTube took a while to provide this for their videos,
>> mostlikely some notebooks can do that already.
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> P.S: The hardware spec of the GI/S host:
>> Although every attempt was made to keep the design of the
>> GI/S as device independent as possible, the choice of the
>> Tektronix 4404 naturally influenced the final design. The
>> 4404 is equipped with 1.9 Megabytes of RAM, a 40 Megabyte
>> hard disk, and uses a 68000 based CPU running a Unix-like
>> operating system. The monochrome bitmapped graphics display
>> provides 480 by 640 pixels resolution on a 9.5 inch by 7.0
>> inch screen. The 4404 supports Franz Lisp [Foderaro, 1981],
>> Version 42, which adds flavors, packages, objects,
>> and other enhancements to Franz Lisp.
>>
>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Maybe there is a strategy involved delaying
>>> a start up and patents, until some stuff becomes hot.
>>>
>>> Or delaying stuff until the required hardware
>>> becomes affordable to everybody. Not an issue
>>>
>>> for ChatGPT since it is anyway client server.
>>> But you find GUIs for math symbolic systems
>>>
>>> basically derived from REDUCE in the dozens!
>>>
>>>  > The development of REDUCE was started in 1963 by
>>>  > Anthony C. Hearn; since then, many scientists from
>>>  > all over the world have contributed to its development.
>>>  > REDUCE was open-sourced in December 2008 and is
>>>  > available for free under a modified BSD license
>>>  > on SourceForge. Previously it had cost $695.
>>>  > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduce_%28computer_algebra_system%29
>>>
>>> Bye
>>>
>>> Julio Di Egidio schrieb:
>>>> On 15/06/2025 04:04, Mild Shock wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So they came up with a patent already in 2012:
>>>>
>>>> << The conceptual step of converting an abstract
>>>> representation (design or specification) of a software
>>>> system, into a more concrete representation in the form
>>>> of program code. >>
>>>>
>>>> "Already" in 2012?  That's the most ridiculous as well
>>>> as the least original "invention" I have ever seen...
>>>>
>>>> -Julio
>>>>
>>>
>>
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.prolog

csiph-web