Academia is retarded (Re: XAI is over and out)

From	Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.prolog
Subject	Academia is retarded (Re: XAI is over and out)
Date	2025-01-10 12:21 +0100
Message-ID	<vlqvrk$2eqjd$2@solani.org> (permalink)
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Hi,

As I said, “traditions” are a hindrance.
XAI was itself promoted by DARPA:

 > XAI: Explainable Artificial Intelligence
 > 
https://www.darpa.mil/research/programs/explainable-artificial-intelligence

This means that certain machine learning
methods have been problematized. But that
was 2018, and it's still like a virus
in people's minds.

You just have to say the keyword machine
learning and then XAI comes up. The academics
have been conditioned like a Pavlovian dog.
And you can't get out of this "tradition" anymore.

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> Another example of total nonsense:
> 
> CfR: Vienna World Logic Day Lecture
> Joao Marques-Silva on Trustable Explainable AI
> 14 Jan 2025, Online [WLD Event]
> https://resources.illc.uva.nl/LogicList/newsitem.php?id=12030
> 
> The abstract is out of date.  XAI was a problem a
> few years ago.  But it has nothing to do with ChatGPT.
> Because ChatGPT is not the machine learning that XAI
> 
> is trying to fix. The fuzzy logic in ChatGPT has nothing
> to do with deep learning and latent parameters.
> ChatGPT throws everything back to natural language and data.
> 
> Virtually no invented latent parameter. There are no
> ontologies with top and bottom in the vectors.  They are
> quite flat attribute structures that not only control
> 
> words, but also sentences and polysemy.  See also:
> 
> Sentence embedding
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_embedding
> 
> This means that the academic world is completely
> overwhelmed.  And now stare in mental shock.  Don't
> notice that "traditions" like XAI are already out of date.
> 
> Mit freundlichen Grüssen
> 
> P.S.: Here's the abstract, it's complete nonsense:
> 
> Abstract:
> Explainable artificial intelligence (XAI) is a mainstay of
> trustworthy AI.  Recent years have witnessed massive efforts
> towards delivering some sort of XAI solutions. Most of these
> efforts are based on non-symbolic methods, an d invariably will
> produce erroneous results. As a result, even if the predictions of
> a machine learning model could be trusted, the lack of reliable
> explanations will also make those predictions unworthy of trust.
> This talk provides a brief glimpse of the emerging field of logic-based
> explainable AI, a rigorous alternative to the still widely-used but
> extremely problematic non-symbolic methods.
> https://resources.illc.uva.nl/LogicList/newsitem.php?id=12030
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have switched to use the term "Fuzzy Logic", since
>> Probability and/or Bayes is surely misleading.
>> "Fuzzy Logic" is quite old:
>>
>> In 1965, in his essay Fuzzy Sets[5] - which had been
>> cited more than 70,000 times by mid-2017 - he first
>> presented his concept of a theory of fuzzy sets, which
>> became the nucleus and basis of the rapidly developing
>> fuzzy logic - (content: The Logic of Uncertainty  )
>> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotfi_Zadeh#Leistungen
>>
>> This is also quite intersting, but PostgreSQL is not
>> the only database management system, that provides
>> such retrieval extensions:
>>
>> Vectors are the new JSON
>> https://www.postgresql.eu/events/pgconfeu2023/sessions/session/4592/slides/435/pgconfeu2023_vectors.pdf 
>>
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> In as far I still hold my position, and you can review
>>> the position in 3-5 years when stupid cows like the MSE
>>> people have done all their learning:
>>>
>>> This here:
>>>
>>> The content you provide must either be your own original work, or 
>>> your summary of the properly referenced work of others. [...] 
>>> Generative artificial intelligence tools are not capable of citing 
>>> the sources of knowledge used up to the standards of the Stack 
>>> Exchange network. https://math.stackexchange.com/help/gen-ai-policy
>>>
>>> Is mostlikely outdated. It ignores RAG:
>>>
>>> Was ist Retrieval-Augmented Generation (RAG)?
>>> https://aws.amazon.com/what-is/retrieval-augmented-generation/
>>>
>>> Bye
>>>
>>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I posted this already on sci.math, sci.logic and
>>>> sci.physics. Its probably the most important addition
>>>> to current LLMs, i.e. Retrieval-Augmented Generation (RAG).
>>>>
>>>> But somehow the morons of MSE don't understand a bit
>>>> whats going on around and about the world. They are
>>>> quite immune to progress in AI. Like stupid cows.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------ cut here --------------------
>>>>
>>>> More details on RAG, see here RETRO Project (*) at t=12:01:
>>>>
>>>> What's wrong with LLMs and what we should be building instead
>>>> Tom Dietterich - 10.07.2023
>>>> https://youtu.be/cEyHsMzbZBs
>>>>
>>>> So its not a very new technique now appearing in
>>>> generative AIs on the market as well. Some chat bots
>>>> are even now able to sometimes show more clearly the
>>>>
>>>> used source documents in their answer. The MSE end
>>>> user can still edit a citation by hand to conform
>>>> more to the SEN format, if this would be the issue.
>>>>
>>>> Also the MSE end user can explicitly now ask a chat
>>>> bot for sources, which he will get most of the time.
>>>> Or he can give a chat bot a source for review and
>>>>
>>>> discussion. This works also. So there is not anymore
>>>> this "remoteness" of an LLM to the actual virtual
>>>> world of documents. Its more that they now inhabit the
>>>>
>>>> actual virtual world and interact with it. Another issue
>>>> I see is that in certain countries and educational
>>>> institutions, it might the case that working with a
>>>>
>>>> chat bot is something that the students learn,
>>>> yet they are not officially allowed to use it on
>>>> MSE, because MSE policies are biased on outdated
>>>>
>>>> views about generative AI.
>>>>
>>>> See also:
>>>>
>>>> (*) RETRO Project:
>>>>
>>>> Improving language models by retrieving from trillions of tokens
>>>> Sebastian Borgeaud et al. - 7 Feb 2022
>>>> https://arxiv.org/abs/2112.04426
>>>>
>>>> ------------------ cut here --------------------
>>>>
>>>> Bye
>>>>
>>>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Prologers with their pipe dream of Ontologies
>>>>> with Axioms are most hurt by LLMs that work
>>>>> more on the basis of Fuzzy Logic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even good old "hardmath" is not immune to
>>>>> this coping mechanism:
>>>>>
>>>>> "I've cast one of my rare votes-to-delete. It is
>>>>> a self-answer to the OP's off-topic "question".
>>>>> Rather than improve the original post, the effort
>>>>> has been made to "promote" some so-called RETRO
>>>>> Project by linking YouTube and arxiv.org URLs.
>>>>> Not worth retaining IMHO.
>>>>> -- hardmath
>>>>>
>>>>> https://math.meta.stackexchange.com/a/38051/1482376
>>>>>
>>>>> Bye
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Thread

Prologers are hurt the most by LLMs Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-01-10 11:09 +0100
  RETRO Project Sebastian Borgeaud et al. - 7 Feb 2022 (Was: Prologers are hurt the most by LLMs) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-01-10 11:12 +0100
    SE policy on use of generative Al ignores Retrieval-Augmented Generatio (Was: RETRO Project Sebastian Borgeaud et al. - 7 Feb 2022) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-01-10 11:15 +0100
      Vectors are the new JSON (Was: SE policy on use of generative Al ignores Retrieval-Augmented Generatio) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-01-10 11:32 +0100
        XAI is over and out (Was: Vectors are the new JSON) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-01-10 12:05 +0100
          Academia is retarded (Re: XAI is over and out) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-01-10 12:21 +0100
  Abstraction Engine / Pattern-Amplification AI Avalanche [Java to C# translation] (Re: Prologers are hurt the most by LLMs) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-04 15:50 +0200
    Swift AI versus Apertus AI: David against Goliath (Re: Abstraction Engine / Pattern-Amplification AI Avalanche [Java to C# translation]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-04 16:04 +0200

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