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Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no

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Am 16.05.2017 um 01:27 schrieb Arne Vajhøj:
> On 5/14/2017 8:44 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> And I also think that Oracle has done a lot of things to facilitate
>> migration:
>> * the module system has been underway for many many years so people
>>   have had long time to check their stuff
>> * early access version of Java 9 with module system has been out for
>>   quite some time allowing people to test
>> * they added a special solution for the much discussed
>>   problem sun.misc.Unsafe by exporting it from the
>>   module jdk.unsupported
>> * they added a command line option to the JVM
>>   --add-opens/--add-exports to workaround problems
>
> Note though that JSR 376 (module system) public review
> was rejected by JCP EC.
>
> 13 NO votes (IBM, Redhat, Eclipse etc.)
> 10 YES votes (Oracle, Azul etc.)
>
> But it may not be dead yet as the comments from some of the
> NO voters sort of points towards a resolution.
>
[comments snipped]

The comments by the nay-sayers broadly address the following topics:
•	module isolation and dynamic modules
•	cyclic dependencies
•	reflection
•	automatic modules
•	consensus in the EG

The time period for a revised spec is just too short to do anything 
about the first point. Oracle will not (and should not, in my opinion) 
change its stance with respect to the second and third point. Regarding 
automatic modules, in addition to what has been mentioned there is now 
also the possibility to specify in the module name in the Manifest. 
Consensus there will be not, because no one is going to convince Red Hat 
(and probably also not IBM).

So the remaining nay-sayers will have to consider whether their 
objections justify basically killing off Java 9. My guess is most will 
find that upholding the No vote would be too detrimental to the Java 
ecosystem as a whole, and that consequently the JSR will get bthe 
required two-thirds majority at the final vote without seeing much change.

-- Sebastian

PS: Rafael Winterhalter's opinion piece is very instructive in 
highlighting the issues at stake: 
http://mydailyjava.blogspot.de/2017/05/yet-another-jigsaw-opinion-piece.html 


Rafael Winterhalter ends with a plea to the EC to vote yes, saying that 
"Oracle has found a common denominator for a module system that serves 
most users."

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Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Chris Riesbeck <Chris.Riesbeck@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 12:25 -0500
  Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-01 13:43 -0400
    Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 11:14 -0700
      Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-01 14:33 -0400
        Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 11:53 -0700
          Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-01 15:10 -0400
            Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 12:53 -0700
              Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-01 16:06 -0400
          Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2017-05-01 16:00 -0400
            Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-01 16:14 -0400
  Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-01 15:59 -0400
  Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2017-05-01 22:01 +0200
    Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-01 16:09 -0400
      Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2017-05-01 23:17 +0200
        Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-01 18:35 -0400
          Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2017-05-02 21:42 +0200
            Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-02 16:18 -0400
              Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2017-05-02 22:45 +0200
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-02 17:43 -0400
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-02 22:57 -0400
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no lewbloch@gmail.com - 2017-05-10 12:42 -0700
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 13:12 -0700
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2017-05-10 23:25 +0200
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-14 20:44 -0400
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-15 19:27 -0400
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Sebastian <nowhere@nirvana.org> - 2017-05-16 22:39 +0200
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-16 20:48 -0400
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-21 19:45 -0400
              Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2017-05-02 23:09 +0000
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-02 22:45 -0400
  Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no lewbloch@gmail.com - 2017-05-02 02:53 -0700
    Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-02 16:24 -0400
      Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2017-05-02 14:27 -0700
        Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-02 17:47 -0400

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