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Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no

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On 5/10/2017 5:25 PM, Silvio wrote:
> On 05/10/2017 09:42 PM, lewbloch@gmail.com wrote:
>> Complaining that the new feature doesn't support hacks one shouldn't
>> have used in the first place is like complaining about paying for
>> child support when you didn't use contraception. You did something you
>> shouldn't. You don't deserve a break for that.
>>
>
> You don't have children by association, you need to procreate yourself.
>
> Software systems do not exist in isolation but are tightly integrated
> with and very dependent of libraries written in the past and mostly by
> other people. We rule our own code-bases but are forced to stay within
> boundaries set by existing libraries.
>
> The problem I see coming up is a lack of options to evolve your own
> existing code-base (gradually adopting modules of some form) without
> causing problems some of the legacy libraries in use. I consider that
> disruptive.
>
> I have been in many situations where a library upgrade would mandate a
> Java version upgrade. Since the opposite has never occurred yet that was
> not a problem. This may now change.

It is certainly common that a real world application usually has lots
of external libraries.

But I will still claim that problems is technical debt surfacing.

Ones own code using unsupported features giving problems on Java 9 => 
obvious technical debt.

Some library  which is actively maintained using unsupported features 
giving problems on Java 9 => not really a problem - one just need to 
wait until they get a Java 9 compatible version out

Some library  which is not actively maintained using unsupported 
features giving problems on Java 9 => this is also a technical debt - 
one has chosen an external library that is not actively maintained

But these problems will certainly show up. We already have seen
a bunch here.

The good thing about the module system is that it will to large
extent prevent this from happening in the future (when the unsupported
features do not get exported).

And I also think that Oracle has done a lot of things to facilitate
migration:
* the module system has been underway for many many years so people
   have had long time to check their stuff
* early access version of Java 9 with module system has been out for
   quite some time allowing people to test
* they added a special solution for the much discussed
   problem sun.misc.Unsafe by exporting it from the
   module jdk.unsupported
* they added a command line option to the JVM
   --add-opens/--add-exports to workaround problems

Arne

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Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Chris Riesbeck <Chris.Riesbeck@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 12:25 -0500
  Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-01 13:43 -0400
    Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 11:14 -0700
      Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-01 14:33 -0400
        Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 11:53 -0700
          Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-01 15:10 -0400
            Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 12:53 -0700
              Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-01 16:06 -0400
          Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2017-05-01 16:00 -0400
            Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-01 16:14 -0400
  Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-01 15:59 -0400
  Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2017-05-01 22:01 +0200
    Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-01 16:09 -0400
      Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2017-05-01 23:17 +0200
        Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-01 18:35 -0400
          Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2017-05-02 21:42 +0200
            Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-02 16:18 -0400
              Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2017-05-02 22:45 +0200
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-02 17:43 -0400
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-02 22:57 -0400
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no lewbloch@gmail.com - 2017-05-10 12:42 -0700
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 13:12 -0700
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2017-05-10 23:25 +0200
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-14 20:44 -0400
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-15 19:27 -0400
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Sebastian <nowhere@nirvana.org> - 2017-05-16 22:39 +0200
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-16 20:48 -0400
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-07-21 19:45 -0400
              Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2017-05-02 23:09 +0000
                Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-02 22:45 -0400
  Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no lewbloch@gmail.com - 2017-05-02 02:53 -0700
    Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-02 16:24 -0400
      Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2017-05-02 14:27 -0700
        Re: Jigsaw: RedHat and IBM say no Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-05-02 17:47 -0400

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