Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #24498

Re: About java program.

From Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject Re: About java program.
Date 2013-06-21 16:24 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <kq1nda$fbk$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <kpnleo$7os$1@dont-email.me> <kpo1dr$cji$1@dont-email.me> <rK3wt.42579$f_1.22147@newsfe05.iad> <kpsfn7$k9k$1@dont-email.me> <oYOwt.19280$9m5.18160@newsfe26.iad>

Show all headers | View raw


On 21/06/2013 04:33, Arved Sandstrom allegedly wrote:
> On 06/19/2013 11:42 AM, Daniele Futtorovic wrote:
>> I'm all for defensive programming, but I think that there's a limit
>> where it can be on the verge of silliness, and that that limit has been
>> grazed here.
>>
>> Less-than-bright programmers IMO cannot be a justification for crossing
>> that line; less-than-bright programmers have more ways to mess things up
>> than you could possibly ever guard against. "Do not underestimate the
>> ingenuity of complete fools", as the saying goes.
>>
>> And for me, there is an additional aspect: if a piece of code does
>> something simple, something basic, then I will want it to be short, and
>> vice-versa. Verbosity of code, to me, should hold a first-glance
>> indication of the complexity of the algorithm. In other words: be terse
>> IFF it's basic, be verbose IFF it's not.
>>
>> Perhaps your mileage does vary. No beef with that. Just throwing in my
>> two cents.
>>
> It's a good discussion. I'm not personally convinced that verbosity adds
> complexity, as a rule. There's really two types of complexity here:
> maintainability complexity - as in, can Joe Blow 12 months later
> understand the code best if it's compact versus unrolled, and formal
> complexity, cyclomatic and otherwise.
> 
> I'll admit that verbosity does usually add maintainability complexity,
> if not the other kind. But not always. I've seen plenty of code that is
> conceptually quite complex but very terse.

Sorry to nitpick, but I don't think you understood me right. I'm not
saying that verbosity adds complexity; I'm saying: if the piece of code
does something tricky, something complicated, tend to make it verbose,
otherwise, tend to make it terse. Thus, seeing a big blob of (e.g.
unrolled, step-by-step) code holds the message "here be dragons". (And
if it cannot be made verbose, then it means it absolutely requires an
in-line comment).

At least the way I perceived it, this discussion was about making stuff
verbose indiscriminately, viz. basic code as well. I disagree with that
in the above sense.

-- 
DF.

Back to comp.lang.java.programmer | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread


Thread

About java program. rajbhaumik@gmail.com - 2013-06-15 13:38 -0700
  Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-06-15 16:50 -0400
  Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-06-16 01:12 +0200
    Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-16 14:21 +0100
      Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-06-16 17:28 +0200
        Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-16 19:52 +0100
          Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-06-16 15:50 -0400
        Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-17 09:36 +0100
        Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-17 09:49 -0300
          Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-17 14:46 +0100
            Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-17 13:32 -0300
            Re: About java program. Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-06-17 20:32 +0200
              Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-17 14:49 -0400
                Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-17 18:38 -0300
                Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-17 18:30 -0400
                Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-18 17:33 -0300
                Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-04 22:56 -0400
                Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-18 00:13 +0200
                Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-18 17:50 -0300
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-19 08:50 +0100
                Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-19 15:16 -0300
                Re: About java program. Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 16:20 -0700
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 13:31 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 18:16 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 19:21 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 20:07 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 20:21 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 20:40 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 22:20 -0400
                Re: About java program. Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-07-07 21:47 -0700
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 06:58 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 08:07 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 08:58 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 09:18 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 09:47 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 10:07 -0400
                Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-19 16:42 +0200
                Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-20 23:33 -0300
                Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-21 04:16 +0000
                Re: About java program. Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-06-21 12:27 +0200
                Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-21 21:14 +0000
                Re: About java program. Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-06-21 23:37 +0200
                Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-21 23:42 +0000
                Re: About java program. Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-06-24 13:00 -0700
                Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-24 21:29 +0000
                Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-24 21:42 +0000
                Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-21 23:59 -0300
                Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-22 13:30 +0000
                Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-21 16:24 +0200
                Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-21 22:39 -0300
                Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-22 19:25 +0200
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-22 19:41 +0100
                Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-23 03:53 +0200
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-23 09:21 +0100
                Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-24 18:57 +0200
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-24 18:14 +0100
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-22 09:03 +0100
                Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-22 19:26 +0200
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-22 18:51 +0100
                Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-04 22:58 -0400
                Re: About java program. Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-06-19 00:38 +0200
                Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-18 18:56 -0400
                Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-18 21:26 -0300
                Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-06-19 21:20 +0200
                Re: About java program. Sven Köhler <remove-sven.koehler@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 11:23 +0300
                Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-06-20 19:18 +0200
                Re: About java program. blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2013-07-15 20:20 +0000
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-19 09:14 +0100
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-19 09:11 +0100
                Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-04 23:11 -0400
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-07-05 09:13 +0100
                Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-05 23:15 +0200
                Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-05 22:03 -0400
                Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-06 13:01 +0200
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-07-06 13:43 +0100
                Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-07-06 14:17 +0000
                Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-06 16:18 -0400
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-07-06 21:42 +0100
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-07-06 09:16 +0100
                Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-06 13:14 +0200
                Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-07-06 08:22 -0400
                Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-07 20:43 +0200
                Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-07-07 18:07 -0400
                Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-07 19:35 -0400
                Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-07-07 20:42 -0400
                Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-08 20:50 +0200
                Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-07-08 15:01 -0400
                Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-08 23:29 +0200
                Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-06 16:27 -0400
                Re: About java program. Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-07-06 13:41 -0700
                Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-05 21:59 -0400
              Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-17 21:06 +0100
            Re: About java program. Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-06-17 17:36 -0500
              Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-06-18 08:24 +0200
              Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-18 09:03 +0100
                Re: About java program. Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-06-18 13:07 -0500
                Re: About java program. Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 14:48 -0700
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-19 08:36 +0100
              Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-18 23:33 -0300
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-19 08:34 +0100
            Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-04 22:53 -0400
  Re: About java program. Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-06-16 07:04 -0700
  Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-18 04:06 -0400

csiph-web