Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #24706

Re: About java program.

Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Date	2013-07-07 21:47 -0700
References	(12 earlier) <6db4a3e5-285c-485c-affc-7891f92f4e5a@googlegroups.com> <krc871$sfa$1@dont-email.me> <krcsme$9co$1@dont-email.me> <krcvd0$kaf$1@dont-email.me> <krd76h$jmh$1@dont-email.me>
Message-ID	<2427fb11-818e-4d9d-bf76-5deaf14223b6@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: About java program.
From	Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com>

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Jeff Higgins wrote:
> Jeff Higgins wrote:
>> Jeff Higgins wrote:
>>> Fabio Paternï¿½
>>> End User Development: Survey of an Emerging Field for Empowering People
>>> <http://www.hindawi.com/isrn/se/2013/532659/>
>>
>> memento for jsh
>> <http://interaction-design.org/books/hci.html>
>> <http://interaction-design.org/encyclopedia/end-user_development.html
> 
> Google-fu failure:
> list of very successful software developed by non-professional programmers

On the flip side, there is quite the long list of unsuccessful software 
developed by very professional professional programmers.

I've read estimates ranging from 1/3rd to 2/3rd, with many clustering near 
one-half, of the failure rate of software projects with costs exceeding 
$100 million.

I knew a guy who worked on one of the ones cited in the literature. I've 
seen one or two first hand that should have been cited.

There are many definitions of "success" in the software industry, relevant 
to a given player defining the term, that differ from the common understanding.
The estimates I have read, however, use a definition along the lines of 
"put into production for the avowed purpose of the project".

Even lame systems were counted as successful if they actually went into 
production for the avowed purpose.

The programmers in many if not all of these notable failures were, from 
what I can determine, not individually incompetent. The problems were either 
in the process or emergent from misaligned definitions of "success".

Many contractors define "success" only insofar as they generate billables.
The actual success of the project is implicitly or explicitly secondary.

Trained professional programmers are necessary to successful systems, but not 
sufficient.

Even properly constituted projects (one where all stakeholders agree on the 
criteria for success and have the requisite skills) risk failure.

I'm not 100% sure what you think, Jeff, based on these links and posts, but I 
am 100% sure that you made me think by posting them.

-- 
Lew

Thread

About java program. rajbhaumik@gmail.com - 2013-06-15 13:38 -0700
  Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-06-15 16:50 -0400
  Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-06-16 01:12 +0200
    Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-16 14:21 +0100
      Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-06-16 17:28 +0200
        Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-16 19:52 +0100
          Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-06-16 15:50 -0400
        Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-17 09:36 +0100
        Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-17 09:49 -0300
          Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-17 14:46 +0100
            Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-17 13:32 -0300
            Re: About java program. Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-06-17 20:32 +0200
              Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-17 14:49 -0400
                Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-17 18:38 -0300
                Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-17 18:30 -0400
                Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-18 17:33 -0300
                Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-04 22:56 -0400
                Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-18 00:13 +0200
                Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-18 17:50 -0300
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-19 08:50 +0100
                Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-19 15:16 -0300
                Re: About java program. Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 16:20 -0700
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 13:31 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 18:16 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 19:21 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 20:07 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 20:21 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 20:40 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 22:20 -0400
                Re: About java program. Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-07-07 21:47 -0700
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 06:58 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 08:07 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 08:58 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 09:18 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 09:47 -0400
                Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 10:07 -0400
                Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-19 16:42 +0200
                Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-20 23:33 -0300
                Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-21 04:16 +0000
                Re: About java program. Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-06-21 12:27 +0200
                Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-21 21:14 +0000
                Re: About java program. Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-06-21 23:37 +0200
                Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-21 23:42 +0000
                Re: About java program. Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-06-24 13:00 -0700
                Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-24 21:29 +0000
                Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-24 21:42 +0000
                Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-21 23:59 -0300
                Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-22 13:30 +0000
                Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-21 16:24 +0200
                Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-21 22:39 -0300
                Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-22 19:25 +0200
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-22 19:41 +0100
                Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-23 03:53 +0200
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-23 09:21 +0100
                Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-24 18:57 +0200
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-24 18:14 +0100
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-22 09:03 +0100
                Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-22 19:26 +0200
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-22 18:51 +0100
                Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-04 22:58 -0400
                Re: About java program. Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-06-19 00:38 +0200
                Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-18 18:56 -0400
                Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-18 21:26 -0300
                Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-06-19 21:20 +0200
                Re: About java program. Sven Köhler <remove-sven.koehler@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 11:23 +0300
                Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-06-20 19:18 +0200
                Re: About java program. blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2013-07-15 20:20 +0000
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-19 09:14 +0100
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-19 09:11 +0100
                Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-04 23:11 -0400
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-07-05 09:13 +0100
                Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-05 23:15 +0200
                Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-05 22:03 -0400
                Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-06 13:01 +0200
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-07-06 13:43 +0100
                Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-07-06 14:17 +0000
                Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-06 16:18 -0400
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-07-06 21:42 +0100
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-07-06 09:16 +0100
                Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-06 13:14 +0200
                Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-07-06 08:22 -0400
                Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-07 20:43 +0200
                Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-07-07 18:07 -0400
                Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-07 19:35 -0400
                Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-07-07 20:42 -0400
                Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-08 20:50 +0200
                Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-07-08 15:01 -0400
                Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-08 23:29 +0200
                Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-06 16:27 -0400
                Re: About java program. Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-07-06 13:41 -0700
                Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-05 21:59 -0400
              Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-17 21:06 +0100
            Re: About java program. Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-06-17 17:36 -0500
              Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-06-18 08:24 +0200
              Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-18 09:03 +0100
                Re: About java program. Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-06-18 13:07 -0500
                Re: About java program. Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 14:48 -0700
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-19 08:36 +0100
              Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-18 23:33 -0300
                Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-19 08:34 +0100
            Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-04 22:53 -0400
  Re: About java program. Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-06-16 07:04 -0700
  Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-18 04:06 -0400

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