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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #24509
| Date | 2013-06-22 09:03 +0100 |
|---|---|
| From | lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> |
| Organization | Trollbusters 3 |
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.java.programmer |
| Subject | Re: About java program. |
| References | (8 earlier) <kpo1dr$cji$1@dont-email.me> <rK3wt.42579$f_1.22147@newsfe05.iad> <kpsfn7$k9k$1@dont-email.me> <oYOwt.19280$9m5.18160@newsfe26.iad> <kq1nda$fbk$1@dont-email.me> |
| Message-ID | <Uv6dnWRtNKrTx1jMnZ2dnUVZ7qSdnZ2d@bt.com> (permalink) |
On 21/06/13 15:24, Daniele Futtorovic wrote: > On 21/06/2013 04:33, Arved Sandstrom allegedly wrote: >> On 06/19/2013 11:42 AM, Daniele Futtorovic wrote: >>> I'm all for defensive programming, but I think that there's a limit >>> where it can be on the verge of silliness, and that that limit has been >>> grazed here. >>> >>> Less-than-bright programmers IMO cannot be a justification for crossing >>> that line; less-than-bright programmers have more ways to mess things up >>> than you could possibly ever guard against. "Do not underestimate the >>> ingenuity of complete fools", as the saying goes. >>> >>> And for me, there is an additional aspect: if a piece of code does >>> something simple, something basic, then I will want it to be short, and >>> vice-versa. Verbosity of code, to me, should hold a first-glance >>> indication of the complexity of the algorithm. In other words: be terse >>> IFF it's basic, be verbose IFF it's not. >>> >>> Perhaps your mileage does vary. No beef with that. Just throwing in my >>> two cents. >>> >> It's a good discussion. I'm not personally convinced that verbosity adds >> complexity, as a rule. There's really two types of complexity here: >> maintainability complexity - as in, can Joe Blow 12 months later >> understand the code best if it's compact versus unrolled, and formal >> complexity, cyclomatic and otherwise. >> >> I'll admit that verbosity does usually add maintainability complexity, >> if not the other kind. But not always. I've seen plenty of code that is >> conceptually quite complex but very terse. > > Sorry to nitpick, but I don't think you understood me right. I'm not > saying that verbosity adds complexity; I'm saying: if the piece of code > does something tricky, something complicated, tend to make it verbose, > otherwise, tend to make it terse. Thus, seeing a big blob of (e.g. > unrolled, step-by-step) code holds the message "here be dragons". (And > if it cannot be made verbose, then it means it absolutely requires an > in-line comment). > > At least the way I perceived it, this discussion was about making stuff > verbose indiscriminately, viz. basic code as well. I disagree with that > in the above sense. ... and who makes these seemingly arbitrary decisions about what is and what isn't 'complex'. This idea that some bits of code can be written differently (more/less verbosely) depending on someones definition of 'complex' is exactly the sort of thing that makes code less readable. Let's be quite clear about this, the *most important* thing is readability. Anyone who has experienced 'flow' when writing code will know that what was blindingly obvious yesterday can be arcane and obtuse today. You need to pick a style and stick with it, not chop and change between arbitrary styles on some whim. I'm tempted to say that this behavior typifies the too clever by half attitude that makes our job so frustrating sometimes but that might be construed as confrontational so I won't ... :-) lipska -- Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun
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About java program. rajbhaumik@gmail.com - 2013-06-15 13:38 -0700
Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-06-15 16:50 -0400
Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-06-16 01:12 +0200
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-16 14:21 +0100
Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-06-16 17:28 +0200
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-16 19:52 +0100
Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-06-16 15:50 -0400
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-17 09:36 +0100
Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-17 09:49 -0300
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-17 14:46 +0100
Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-17 13:32 -0300
Re: About java program. Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-06-17 20:32 +0200
Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-17 14:49 -0400
Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-17 18:38 -0300
Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-17 18:30 -0400
Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-18 17:33 -0300
Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-04 22:56 -0400
Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-18 00:13 +0200
Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-18 17:50 -0300
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-19 08:50 +0100
Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-19 15:16 -0300
Re: About java program. Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 16:20 -0700
Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 13:31 -0400
Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 18:16 -0400
Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 19:21 -0400
Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 20:07 -0400
Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 20:21 -0400
Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 20:40 -0400
Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-07 22:20 -0400
Re: About java program. Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-07-07 21:47 -0700
Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 06:58 -0400
Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 08:07 -0400
Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 08:58 -0400
Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 09:18 -0400
Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 09:47 -0400
Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-08 10:07 -0400
Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-19 16:42 +0200
Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-20 23:33 -0300
Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-21 04:16 +0000
Re: About java program. Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-06-21 12:27 +0200
Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-21 21:14 +0000
Re: About java program. Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-06-21 23:37 +0200
Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-21 23:42 +0000
Re: About java program. Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-06-24 13:00 -0700
Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-24 21:29 +0000
Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-24 21:42 +0000
Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-21 23:59 -0300
Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-06-22 13:30 +0000
Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-21 16:24 +0200
Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-21 22:39 -0300
Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-22 19:25 +0200
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-22 19:41 +0100
Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-23 03:53 +0200
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-23 09:21 +0100
Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-24 18:57 +0200
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-24 18:14 +0100
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-22 09:03 +0100
Re: About java program. Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-22 19:26 +0200
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-22 18:51 +0100
Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-04 22:58 -0400
Re: About java program. Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-06-19 00:38 +0200
Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-06-18 18:56 -0400
Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-18 21:26 -0300
Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-06-19 21:20 +0200
Re: About java program. Sven Köhler <remove-sven.koehler@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 11:23 +0300
Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-06-20 19:18 +0200
Re: About java program. blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2013-07-15 20:20 +0000
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-19 09:14 +0100
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-19 09:11 +0100
Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-04 23:11 -0400
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-07-05 09:13 +0100
Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-05 23:15 +0200
Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-05 22:03 -0400
Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-06 13:01 +0200
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-07-06 13:43 +0100
Re: About java program. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-07-06 14:17 +0000
Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-06 16:18 -0400
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-07-06 21:42 +0100
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-07-06 09:16 +0100
Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-06 13:14 +0200
Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-07-06 08:22 -0400
Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-07 20:43 +0200
Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-07-07 18:07 -0400
Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-07 19:35 -0400
Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-07-07 20:42 -0400
Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-08 20:50 +0200
Re: About java program. Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-07-08 15:01 -0400
Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-07-08 23:29 +0200
Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-06 16:27 -0400
Re: About java program. Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-07-06 13:41 -0700
Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-05 21:59 -0400
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-17 21:06 +0100
Re: About java program. Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-06-17 17:36 -0500
Re: About java program. Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-06-18 08:24 +0200
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-18 09:03 +0100
Re: About java program. Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-06-18 13:07 -0500
Re: About java program. Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 14:48 -0700
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-19 08:36 +0100
Re: About java program. Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-18 23:33 -0300
Re: About java program. lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-06-19 08:34 +0100
Re: About java program. Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-07-04 22:53 -0400
Re: About java program. Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-06-16 07:04 -0700
Re: About java program. Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-18 04:06 -0400
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