Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.forth > #52145 > unrolled thread

Is win32forth dead ?

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.forth

Contents

  Is win32forth dead ? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-10-24 11:40 +0100
    Re: Is win32forth dead ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-24 11:37 +0000
      Re: Is win32forth dead ? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-10-24 14:08 +0100
    Re: Is win32forth dead ? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-24 16:18 +0200
      Re: Is win32forth dead ? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-10-24 20:37 +0100
        Re: Is win32forth dead ? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-10-24 22:40 +0100
      Re: Is win32forth dead ? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-10-24 22:34 +0100
    Re: Is win32forth dead ? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-10-24 20:37 -0700
      Re: Is win32forth dead ? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-10-25 11:28 +0100
        Re: Is win32forth dead ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-25 10:58 -0400
          Re: Is win32forth dead ? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-10-25 20:40 +0100
            Re: Is win32forth dead ? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-10-25 14:47 -0500
            Re: Is win32forth dead ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-26 12:44 -0400
              Re: Is win32forth dead ? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-10-26 22:11 +0100
    Re: Is win32forth dead ? josv@planet.nl - 2016-10-25 03:14 -0700
      Re: Is win32forth dead ? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-10-25 15:21 +0100
      Re: Is win32forth dead ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-25 11:07 -0400
        Re: Is win32forth dead ? josv@planet.nl - 2016-10-25 09:02 -0700
          Re: Is win32forth dead ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-26 22:40 -0400
            Re: Is win32forth dead ? josv@planet.nl - 2016-10-27 05:51 -0700
      Re: Is win32forth dead ? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-10-26 14:35 +0100
        Re: Is win32forth dead ? josv@planet.nl - 2016-10-26 11:26 -0700
          Re: Is win32forth dead ? jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-10-26 22:08 +0100

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#52145 — Is win32forth dead ?

I've looked around for a forth to do some prototype development with and settled 
on win32forth as the only one trying to do a decent development environment
that has some feaures I want to use.
Unfortunately the help system doesnt work at all - the html pages aren't setup
to be browsed and the project section doesnt compile a loaded page (it seems to 
need manual re-loading) ... and so on --- IE lots of bugs and stuff that doesnt 
work.

This is a shame - its a really good start.
Maybe if everyone stopped developing 23 different forths and just got behind
one to create a really good free forth people might want to use it more?
Not criticising - just suggesting.

If there is a fixed version of the ide a link would be nice. Most of the web pages
for win32forth have out of date information. Perhaps fixing those would save
people some time too.

Anyway - I'll ask john if he'll fund VFX for me (he's hosting my forum) but I'd 
really like to have a free forth to use in case others want to help with what I'm 
doing.

PS If anyone wants space in the forum for their project let me know and I can
 probably do that - (its phpbb3 based) 

jim.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#52147

jim <anon@example.com> writes:
>I'd 
>really like to have a free forth to use in case others want to help with what I'm 
>doing.

In that case Gforth may be your best option; I don't know if it has
the features you want, though.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2016: http://www.euroforth.org/ef16/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52148

In article <2016Oct24.133711@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>, 
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at says...
> 
> jim <anon@example.com> writes:
> >I'd 
> >really like to have a free forth to use in case others want to help with what I'm 
> >doing.
> 
> In that case Gforth may be your best option; I don't know if it has
> the features you want, though.
> 
> - anton

Thanks anton but gforth didn't work for me.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52149

In article <MPG.3277f5904f2c644d98969c@news.virginmedia.com>,
jim  <anon@example.com> wrote:
>
>
>I've looked around for a forth to do some prototype development with and settled
>on win32forth as the only one trying to do a decent development environment
>that has some feaures I want to use.

If you're looking for Eclipse you will not find it. Forthers here have
argued that one can get work done, without things like Eclipse.

>Unfortunately the help system doesnt work at all - the html pages aren't setup
>to be browsed and the project section doesnt compile a loaded page (it seems to
>need manual re-loading) ... and so on --- IE lots of bugs and stuff that doesnt
>work.

So ciforth's facility trumps that. An ugly one file ci86.lina64.html
that you can put anywhere and click from it anywhere. Or open the pdf
and select the PARSING section in the left menu, then SAVE.

>
>This is a shame - its a really good start.
>Maybe if everyone stopped developing 23 different forths and just got behind
>one to create a really good free forth people might want to use it more?
>Not criticising - just suggesting.

I'm one of those 23 different Forth's (ciforth). Having an all dancing and
all singing Forth on Windows is a problem because of the moving target.
I admire the win32forth people for getting that far.
Even the gForth people are complaining that the underlying gcc is too
much of a moving target, and their windows version is based on Cygwin
that is basically a unix compatibility layer on top of Windows.

So there is a niche for simpler Forth's. ciforth assumes the bare minimum
of system facilities, avoids enticing performing enhancing features
and aims for a kernel that works similar on the three main platforms
Linux, Windows and OSX.

I'm trying to get some work done, write a Pascal compiler, a Lisp
compiler, do OCR, do some Euler problems. I can't avoid interaction
with c (GCC) totally because system structures are more and more
undefined (I call "implicitly defined by c include file" undefined.
Those files should be written to specifications, not hacked
together and then used as specifications.)

Oh boy, you get me started! Back to work.

>
>If there is a fixed version of the ide a link would be nice. Most of the web pages
>for win32forth have out of date information. Perhaps fixing those would save
>people some time too.

Another reason to keep it simple. ciforth documentation is meticulously up
to date. If it weren't so small that would be a colossal undertaking.

>
>jim.
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52162

On 24/10/2016 15:18, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> In article<MPG.3277f5904f2c644d98969c@news.virginmedia.com>,
> jim<anon@example.com>  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >I've looked around for a forth to do some prototype development with and settled
>> >on win32forth as the only one trying to do a decent development environment
>> >that has some feaures I want to use.

> If you're looking for Eclipse you will not find it. Forthers here have
> argued that one can get work done, without things like Eclipse.
>
>> >

Sure you can do without Eclipse but I use Eclipse all the time with my 
Forth system running under Windows, it's good. It works just as well 
with Gforth, SwiftForth, VFX, Win32 Forth etc. I've got it set up so 
that a double click launches the selected Forth system, loads the 
application, runs a test program or whatever. It's more than fast 
enough. I've no wish to return to the old ways.


-- 
Gerry

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52168

In article <nulnt5$bfa$1@dont-email.me>, gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk 
says...
> 
> > If you're looking for Eclipse you will not find it. Forthers here have
> > argued that one can get work done, without things like Eclipse.
> >
> >> >
> 
> Sure you can do without Eclipse but I use Eclipse all the time with my 
> Forth system running under Windows, it's good. It works just as well 
> with Gforth, SwiftForth, VFX, Win32 Forth etc. I've got it set up so 
> that a double click launches the selected Forth system, loads the 
> application, runs a test program or whatever. It's more than fast 
> enough. I've no wish to return to the old ways.


Not me gerry - it was albert van der horst ranting on about eclipse
and a whole bunch of other rubbish.

jim

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52167

> In article <nul57l$ab3$1@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl>,
>  albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl says...... 


I can only assume you are drunk.
jim

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52177

On Monday, October 24, 2016 at 11:42:22 PM UTC+13, jim wrote:
> I've looked around for a forth to do some prototype development with
> and settled on win32forth ...

Why still use anything Win32? I thought everybody had moved to 64 bits by now.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52187

In article <df21f07f-32f7-490f-9106-32fdd95abb40@googlegroups.com>, 
lawrencedo99@gmail.com says...
> 
> On Monday, October 24, 2016 at 11:42:22 PM UTC+13, jim wrote:
> > I've looked around for a forth to do some prototype development with
> > and settled on win32forth ...
> 
> Why still use anything Win32? I thought everybody had moved to 64 bits by now.

I don't know if that was tongue in cheek but ...

I did say to prototype - win32forth has enough elements to make what I'm doing 
easier than most other free forths. I'd like a full pro environment but I'm reliant on 
the generosity of others for that at the moment. (I'm trying to get vfx - a 32 bit 
forth?)

then there will be the prototype hardware - have you tried to buy a 64bit FPGA
with easy translation into asic for production? -

Plus the processor design I'm working on is a parallel system on chip - I don't
need 64 bits for that. More is not always better. I'm not even convinced the x86_64 
chip is at all reasonable. Certainly not for the PC market.

The hardware design is progressing slowly however - it may take 2 years or a bit 
more. Initially I'll work up a system on x86_64  in the meantime when I say 
prototype I'm talking about prototping TIL structures, methods and (in forth) words 
(datatypes etc) to my own specification.

I could do that in 8 bit if I had to.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52195

On 10/25/2016 6:28 AM, jim wrote:
> In article <df21f07f-32f7-490f-9106-32fdd95abb40@googlegroups.com>,
> lawrencedo99@gmail.com says...
>>
>> On Monday, October 24, 2016 at 11:42:22 PM UTC+13, jim wrote:
>>> I've looked around for a forth to do some prototype development with
>>> and settled on win32forth ...
>>
>> Why still use anything Win32? I thought everybody had moved to 64 bits by now.
>
> I don't know if that was tongue in cheek but ...
>
> I did say to prototype - win32forth has enough elements to make what I'm doing
> easier than most other free forths. I'd like a full pro environment but I'm reliant on
> the generosity of others for that at the moment. (I'm trying to get vfx - a 32 bit
> forth?)
>
> then there will be the prototype hardware - have you tried to buy a 64bit FPGA
> with easy translation into asic for production? -

What is a 64 bit FPGA?  FPGAs are word size agnostic.  You can have a 63 
bit design in an FPGA or a 1 bit design.  Converting to an ASIC 
shouldn't be an issue in either case.


> Plus the processor design I'm working on is a parallel system on chip - I don't
> need 64 bits for that. More is not always better. I'm not even convinced the x86_64
> chip is at all reasonable. Certainly not for the PC market.
>
> The hardware design is progressing slowly however - it may take 2 years or a bit
> more. Initially I'll work up a system on x86_64  in the meantime when I say
> prototype I'm talking about prototping TIL structures, methods and (in forth) words
> (datatypes etc) to my own specification.
>
> I could do that in 8 bit if I had to.
>


-- 

Rick C

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52202

In article <nunru2$jbg$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says...
> 
> What is a 64 bit FPGA?  FPGAs are word size agnostic.  You can have a 63 
> bit design in an FPGA or a 1 bit design.  Converting to an ASIC 
> shouldn't be an issue in either case.
> 

Not with what I'm doing. 
You can have what you want if you're willing to be extremely wasteful
of course - but you can't do this. and no I'm not explaining what "this" is.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52203

On 10/25/2016 2:40 PM, jim wrote:
> In article <nunru2$jbg$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says...
>>
>> What is a 64 bit FPGA?  FPGAs are word size agnostic.  You can have a 63
>> bit design in an FPGA or a 1 bit design.  Converting to an ASIC
>> shouldn't be an issue in either case.
>>
>
> Not with what I'm doing.
> You can have what you want if you're willing to be extremely wasteful
> of course - but you can't do this. and no I'm not explaining what "this" is.
>
>
>
>
So why are you here?

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52219

On 10/25/2016 3:40 PM, jim wrote:
> In article <nunru2$jbg$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says...
>>
>> What is a 64 bit FPGA?  FPGAs are word size agnostic.  You can have a 63
>> bit design in an FPGA or a 1 bit design.  Converting to an ASIC
>> shouldn't be an issue in either case.
>>
>
> Not with what I'm doing.
> You can have what you want if you're willing to be extremely wasteful
> of course - but you can't do this. and no I'm not explaining what "this" is.

Ok, then don't expect anyone to have any idea what you are talking 
about... :(

-- 

Rick C

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52223

In article <nuqmg3$cdo$2@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says...
> 
> On 10/25/2016 3:40 PM, jim wrote:
> > In article <nunru2$jbg$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says...
> >>
> >> What is a 64 bit FPGA?  FPGAs are word size agnostic.  You can have a 63
> >> bit design in an FPGA or a 1 bit design.  Converting to an ASIC
> >> shouldn't be an issue in either case.
> >>
> >
> > Not with what I'm doing.
> > You can have what you want if you're willing to be extremely wasteful
> > of course - but you can't do this. and no I'm not explaining what "this" is.
> 
> Ok, then don't expect anyone to have any idea what you are talking 
> about... :(


No rick - thats the idea.
I can discuss broadly but not markets and end products.
If you read back you'll see how I'm going about things
in broad terms at the moment

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52186

Hi,

No problems here for version Win32Forth 6.15.04 under Windows 10.
The Html pages are intended to be used within the help system.
Just start win32forthIDE or Win32for use F1 to get there.

Jos

On October 25, 2016 12:42:22 UTC+2 jim wrote:
> I've looked around for a forth to do some prototype development with and settled 
> on win32forth as the only one trying to do a decent development environment
> that has some feaures I want to use.
> Unfortunately the help system doesnt work at all - the html pages aren't setup
> to be browsed and the project section doesnt compile a loaded page (it seems to 
> need manual re-loading) ... and so on --- IE lots of bugs and stuff that doesnt 
> work.
> 
> This is a shame - its a really good start.
> Maybe if everyone stopped developing 23 different forths and just got behind
> one to create a really good free forth people might want to use it more?
> Not criticising - just suggesting.
> 
> If there is a fixed version of the ide a link would be nice. Most of the web pages
> for win32forth have out of date information. Perhaps fixing those would save
> people some time too.
> 
> Anyway - I'll ask john if he'll fund VFX for me (he's hosting my forum) but I'd 
> really like to have a free forth to use in case others want to help with what I'm 
> doing.
> 
> PS If anyone wants space in the forum for their project let me know and I can
>  probably do that - (its phpbb3 based) 
> 
> jim.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52194

In article <d78d3411-50ec-43b2-ac35-c4ba0397db92@googlegroups.com>, 
josv@planet.nl says...
> 
> Hi,
> 
> No problems here for version Win32Forth 6.15.04 under Windows 10.
> The Html pages are intended to be used within the help system.
> Just start win32forthIDE or Win32for use F1 to get there.
> 
> Jos

Hi jos 

Thanks for the info - I'll look closer at it.then.
It must be something I'm doing wrong.

I'm using win7-64 DEP off on an admin account
I've tried rebuilding and re-installing but I get the same issue
each time. 

jim

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52196

On 10/25/2016 6:14 AM, josv@planet.nl wrote:
> Hi,
>
> No problems here for version Win32Forth 6.15.04 under Windows 10.
> The Html pages are intended to be used within the help system.
> Just start win32forthIDE or Win32for use F1 to get there.
>
> Jos

As I've gotten older and the type on the computer screen has gotten 
smaller.  Really!  It did, the resolution went up and the type seems to 
be defined (along with everything else) in terms of the pixels, so it is 
all very small on my laptop HD resolution screen, even at 17 inches.

So one of my problems using Win32Forth is the small font size.  Is there 
any way to make that larger without mucking with the controls in 
Windows?  I've already changed the overall size setting in Windows and 
it seems some programs aren't affected by this.

Also, in trying to use the in line help I typed 'help ."' into the main 
console while the help window was open and it popped up an error "Read 
error in HelpWrd.hdb at 471964".  Any ideas?

-- 

Rick C

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52197

Hi Rick, 

In Win32FortIDE: 
Choose: Options| IDE Preferences | Button: Text Font:

In the Win32Forth console enter:
 font NewFont
 s" Courier" SetFaceName: NewFont
 20 height: NewFont
 NewFont SetFont: cmd
Could modified and added to your Win32forUser.cfg
so it would be default

About help: 
Does it work when you start
~\win32forth\setup.exe
and run the options: T U R

Jos

On October 25, 2016 17:07:32 UTC+2 rickman wrote:
> On 10/25/2016 6:14 AM, jos..nl wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > No problems here for version Win32Forth 6.15.04 under Windows 10.
> > The Html pages are intended to be used within the help system.
> > Just start win32forthIDE or Win32for use F1 to get there.
> >
> > Jos
> 
> As I've gotten older and the type on the computer screen has gotten 
> smaller.  Really!  It did, the resolution went up and the type seems to 
> be defined (along with everything else) in terms of the pixels, so it is 
> all very small on my laptop HD resolution screen, even at 17 inches.
> 
> So one of my problems using Win32Forth is the small font size.  Is there 
> any way to make that larger without mucking with the controls in 
> Windows?  I've already changed the overall size setting in Windows and 
> it seems some programs aren't affected by this.
> 
> Also, in trying to use the in line help I typed 'help ."' into the main 
> console while the help window was open and it popped up an error "Read 
> error in HelpWrd.hdb at 471964".  Any ideas?
> 
> -- 
> 
> Rick C

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52224

On 10/25/2016 12:02 PM, josv@planet.nl wrote:
> Hi Rick,
>
> In Win32FortIDE:
> Choose: Options| IDE Preferences | Button: Text Font:
>
> In the Win32Forth console enter:
>  font NewFont
>  s" Courier" SetFaceName: NewFont
>  20 height: NewFont
>  NewFont SetFont: cmd
> Could modified and added to your Win32forUser.cfg
> so it would be default
>
> About help:
> Does it work when you start
> ~\win32forth\setup.exe
> and run the options: T U R

I tried the commands to change the font temporarily and it works ok. 
The size seems to be discrete with changes at 16 and 20 but not any of 
the other values between 12 and 20. 20 is a bit large and 16 is a bit 
small, but that's ok.  16 is a lot better on my eyes than is 12.  :)
I didn't figure out how to add it to the Win32forUser.cfg file.  In the 
editor I see a comment that says, "DON'T CHANGE THE REST OF THE FILE 
!!!"  lol.  Do I add the commands above to the end of this file?

I'm not sure about help.  I tried what you said to do and tried typing 
help ." again.  Now it says, "Error(-13): HELP is undefined".  I clicked 
the menu item Help - Help System, then typed help ." and got the below 
error message.

Read error in HelpWrd.hdb at: 471964

-- 

Rick C

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52236

Hi Rick,

Above to the line "DON'T CHANGE THE REST OF THE FILE

Do you see an error when you run in Setup.exe the options T R U

Jos

On October 27, 2016 04:40:10 UTC+2 rickman wrote:
> On 10/25/2016 12:02 PM, jo...nl wrote:
> > Hi Rick,
> >
> > In Win32FortIDE:
> > Choose: Options| IDE Preferences | Button: Text Font:
> >
> > In the Win32Forth console enter:
> >  font NewFont
> >  s" Courier" SetFaceName: NewFont
> >  20 height: NewFont
> >  NewFont SetFont: cmd
> > Could modified and added to your Win32forUser.cfg
> > so it would be default
> >
> > About help:
> > Does it work when you start
> > ~\win32forth\setup.exe
> > and run the options: T U R
> 
> I tried the commands to change the font temporarily and it works ok. 
> The size seems to be discrete with changes at 16 and 20 but not any of 
> the other values between 12 and 20. 20 is a bit large and 16 is a bit 
> small, but that's ok.  16 is a lot better on my eyes than is 12.  :)
> I didn't figure out how to add it to the Win32forUser.cfg file.  In the 
> editor I see a comment that says, "DON'T CHANGE THE REST OF THE FILE 
> !!!"  lol.  Do I add the commands above to the end of this file?
> 
> I'm not sure about help.  I tried what you said to do and tried typing 
> help ." again.  Now it says, "Error(-13): HELP is undefined".  I clicked 
> the menu item Help - Help System, then typed help ." and got the below 
> error message.
> 
> Read error in HelpWrd.hdb at: 471964
> 
> -- 
> 
> Rick C

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.forth

csiph-web