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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #51465 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-09-30 01:33 +0000 |
| Last post | 2016-10-12 23:46 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 68 — 16 participants |
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Gforth snapshot for Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-09-30 01:33 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-09-30 15:16 +0100
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-30 16:26 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-09-30 19:50 +0100
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-09-30 20:34 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-10-02 11:14 +0100
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-02 16:29 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-10-02 22:47 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows jjmail9@gmail.com - 2016-10-19 04:45 -0700
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@zxdehrnyya.cam> - 2016-09-30 17:28 -0400
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-09-30 22:14 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-10-01 19:42 +0100
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-01 07:08 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-10-02 11:23 +0100
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-02 16:14 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-10-02 12:14 -0500
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-02 19:45 +0200
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-03 07:43 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-10-03 12:51 +0100
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-10-02 12:07 +0100
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-10-02 22:39 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-30 14:36 -0700
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-01 07:46 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-01 12:12 -0700
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-10-02 19:51 -0700
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-09-30 22:09 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-30 13:25 -1000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-10-02 00:10 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-10-01 15:31 -1000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-10-02 23:00 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-10-02 21:32 -1000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-10-03 03:46 -0500
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-10-02 23:25 -1000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-03 12:57 +0200
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-10-03 04:31 -0700
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-04 09:18 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-10-04 21:57 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows jjmail9@gmail.com - 2016-10-19 06:47 -0700
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-10-21 20:22 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-10-04 12:40 -1000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows jjmail9@gmail.com - 2016-10-19 08:37 -0700
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-10-19 11:29 -0500
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows jjmail9@gmail.com - 2016-10-19 12:03 -0700
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-20 12:15 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-10-20 07:36 -1000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-21 07:15 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-10-21 22:12 -1000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-22 12:12 +0200
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-22 13:52 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows jjmail9@gmail.com - 2016-10-19 05:57 -0700
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-30 10:17 -0700
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Philip Smith <philipkingsmith@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 11:45 -0700
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows beeflo <beeflobill@gmail.com> - 2016-10-11 10:51 -0700
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-10-11 20:44 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2016-10-12 01:02 +0100
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-10-13 00:26 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2016-10-13 08:48 +0100
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-10-13 01:09 -0700
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-10-14 23:39 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-10-14 18:05 +0100
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-10-14 23:29 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-15 16:26 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-10-17 00:52 +0000
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-10-19 10:50 +0100
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Spiros Lakkos <slakkos@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-12 06:50 +0300
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-10-11 22:42 -0700
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows beeflo <beeflobill@gmail.com> - 2016-10-12 09:41 -0700
Re: Gforth snapshot for Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-10-12 23:46 +0000
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| From | Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-02 22:39 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nss2br$tme$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #51542 |
Am Sun, 02 Oct 2016 12:07:37 +0100 schrieb Gerry Jackson: > On 30/09/2016 19:50, Gerry Jackson wrote: >>> 6) May not be your problem but when the console window is resized any >>> text displayed disappears, but GForth is still working. > > I just noticed it happens with my system as well. It looks like > Microsoft introduced this feature with Windows 10. Aren't they > wonderful. Yes, but that's why the Gforth distribution comes with mintty. Mintty doesn't have this problem. The problem of the Windows console affects all programs using it, including the Linux mode. -- Bernd Paysan "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself" net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ* http://bernd-paysan.de/
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-30 14:36 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <874m4x3w9s.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com> |
| In reply to | #51479 |
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes: > Gforth now contains a word B. Is that really necessary?
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| From | anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-01 07:46 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <2016Oct1.094650@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #51488 |
Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes:
>anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:
>> Gforth now contains a word B.
>
>Is that really necessary?
Depends on who you ask. But any words consisting only of hex digits
have the same problem. In particular, there is a standard word
FE. that has this problem.
The classical solution is not to avoid these word names, but to prefix
all numbers with a 0 that would otherwise start with a letter. These
days, we can do better, and prefix the numbers with "$".
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2016: http://www.euroforth.org/ef16/
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-01 12:12 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <87h98v289v.fsf@nightsong.com> |
| In reply to | #51503 |
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes: >>> Gforth now contains a word B. >>Is that really necessary? > Depends on who you ask. But any words consisting only of hex digits > have the same problem. I wasn't even thinking about hex digits. While trying things out or testing with Forth it's pretty convenient to use one-letter names for symbols. There are already a few in use but adding more seems a bit annoying. OTOH, I didn't know that B was used by Forth systems historically, so I guess that helps.
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| From | lawrencedo99@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-02 19:51 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b8979499-5d8f-4f60-ae74-bfb85b1e7078@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #51503 |
On Saturday, October 1, 2016 at 8:52:14 PM UTC+13, Anton Ertl wrote:
> These days, we can do better, and prefix the numbers with "$".
I like the more general convention of «base»#«digits», where «base» can be any integer from 2 to 36 inclusive. For example
36#1i = 13#42 = 54
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| From | Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-30 22:09 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nsmnq1$jjt$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #51479 |
Am Fri, 30 Sep 2016 16:26:45 +0000 schrieb Anton Ertl: > Gforth now contains a word B. Maybe we should warn about using numbers > that don't start with 0-9 or a prefix, too. Hm, or maybe B is a bad word ;-). But we also have L and N now, too, and those would make that test fail, as well. SwiftForth has L N B as well, and that's the inspiration for these words. -- Bernd Paysan "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself" net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ* http://bernd-paysan.de/
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| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-30 13:25 -1000 |
| Message-ID | <ivudnVM9Z9LnaXPKnZ2dnUU7-UfNnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #51489 |
On 9/30/16 12:09 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote: > Am Fri, 30 Sep 2016 16:26:45 +0000 schrieb Anton Ertl: > >> Gforth now contains a word B. Maybe we should warn about using numbers >> that don't start with 0-9 or a prefix, too. > > Hm, or maybe B is a bad word ;-). But we also have L and N now, too, and > those would make that test fail, as well. SwiftForth has L N B as well, > and that's the inspiration for these words. > L N and B were in Chuck's earliest Forths, and have been in FORTH, Inc. products forever. They are part of the IDE, moving forward ( N ), back ( B ) and re-displaying ( L ) in source: blocks back in the day, and source segments displayed by LOCATE in SwiftForth. I have never heard that they were a problem. Cheers, Elizabeth -- ================================================== Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 Los Angeles, CA 90045 http://www.forth.com "Forth-based products and Services for real-time applications since 1973." ==================================================
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| From | Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-02 00:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nspj95$e8v$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #51493 |
Am Fri, 30 Sep 2016 13:25:46 -1000 schrieb Elizabeth D. Rather: > L N and B were in Chuck's earliest Forths, and have been in FORTH, Inc. > products forever. They are part of the IDE, moving forward ( N ), back ( > B ) and re-displaying ( L ) in source: blocks back in the day, and > source segments displayed by LOCATE in SwiftForth. I have never heard > that they were a problem. Well, Gerry Jackson's test had a little problem ;-). While Gforth didn't have a LOCATE until recently, we choose to follow Chuck's early Forth in syntax and semantics, when we finally implemented LOCATE. However, IIRC, the editor commands lived in a special editor vocabulary, and only L was visible by default, switching to the editor vocabulary when used. That way, all those one-letter editor words like I (insert) did not collide with normal Forth words. In SwiftForth, B and N are globally visible, though. -- Bernd Paysan "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself" net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ* http://bernd-paysan.de/
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| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-01 15:31 -1000 |
| Message-ID | <87idnZOJ44rF_m3KnZ2dnUU7-fPNnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #51514 |
On 10/1/16 2:10 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote: > Am Fri, 30 Sep 2016 13:25:46 -1000 schrieb Elizabeth D. Rather: >> L N and B were in Chuck's earliest Forths, and have been in FORTH, Inc. >> products forever. They are part of the IDE, moving forward ( N ), back ( >> B ) and re-displaying ( L ) in source: blocks back in the day, and >> source segments displayed by LOCATE in SwiftForth. I have never heard >> that they were a problem. > > Well, Gerry Jackson's test had a little problem ;-). While Gforth didn't > have a LOCATE until recently, we choose to follow Chuck's early Forth in > syntax and semantics, when we finally implemented LOCATE. > > However, IIRC, the editor commands lived in a special editor vocabulary, > and only L was visible by default, switching to the editor vocabulary > when used. That way, all those one-letter editor words like I (insert) > did not collide with normal Forth words. > > In SwiftForth, B and N are globally visible, though. True. SwiftForth doesn't have an internal editor, because it can interface well to external editors. Incidentally, there were 3 versions of I in earlier FORTH, Inc. products: the loop version, the editor version (Insert), and the assembler version (the register or location used for the Interpreter pointer), each in the appropriate wordlist, of course. Cheers, Elizabeth -- ================================================== Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 Los Angeles, CA 90045 http://www.forth.com "Forth-based products and Services for real-time applications since 1973." ==================================================
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| From | Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-02 23:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nss3id$tme$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #51524 |
Am Sat, 01 Oct 2016 15:31:03 -1000 schrieb Elizabeth D. Rather: > On 10/1/16 2:10 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote: >> However, IIRC, the editor commands lived in a special editor >> vocabulary, and only L was visible by default, switching to the editor >> vocabulary when used. That way, all those one-letter editor words like >> I (insert) did not collide with normal Forth words. >> >> In SwiftForth, B and N are globally visible, though. > > True. SwiftForth doesn't have an internal editor, because it can > interface well to external editors. Incidentally, there were 3 versions > of I in earlier FORTH, Inc. products: the loop version, the editor > version (Insert), and the assembler version (the register or location > used for the Interpreter pointer), each in the appropriate wordlist, of > course. Still begs the question if resurrecting the EDITOR vocabulary for these few words might be useful. Actually, the Gforth LOCATE browser does read in the file in a way that is usable for a PolyForth-style editor, and adding such a simple editor would be just a few dozen lines. Or adding a full-screen editor maybe would be a line or two more (don't know how many ;-). I would use the command line editor to edit the individual lines, which then would give features like tab completion "for free". -- Bernd Paysan "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself" net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ* http://bernd-paysan.de/
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| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-02 21:32 -1000 |
| Message-ID | <AamdnUeZKMQElG_KnZ2dnUU7-I_NnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #51554 |
On 10/2/16 1:00 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote: > Am Sat, 01 Oct 2016 15:31:03 -1000 schrieb Elizabeth D. Rather: > >> On 10/1/16 2:10 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote: >>> However, IIRC, the editor commands lived in a special editor >>> vocabulary, and only L was visible by default, switching to the editor >>> vocabulary when used. That way, all those one-letter editor words like >>> I (insert) did not collide with normal Forth words. >>> >>> In SwiftForth, B and N are globally visible, though. >> >> True. SwiftForth doesn't have an internal editor, because it can >> interface well to external editors. Incidentally, there were 3 versions >> of I in earlier FORTH, Inc. products: the loop version, the editor >> version (Insert), and the assembler version (the register or location >> used for the Interpreter pointer), each in the appropriate wordlist, of >> course. > > Still begs the question if resurrecting the EDITOR vocabulary for these > few words might be useful. It could be done in a heartbeat if anyone complained of problems with these words. AFAIK no one has. > Actually, the Gforth LOCATE browser does read > in the file in a way that is usable for a PolyForth-style editor, and > adding such a simple editor would be just a few dozen lines. Or adding a > full-screen editor maybe would be a line or two more (don't know how > many ;-). I would use the command line editor to edit the individual > lines, which then would give features like tab completion "for free". The basic polyFORTH editor was 16 lines, with a second block added to provide a "screen editor". It was discarded because most of our users preferred programmers' editors that they used in other projects, so it hardly seemed worthwhile to modify it to work in files rather than blocks. Cheers, Elizabeth -- ================================================== Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 Los Angeles, CA 90045 http://www.forth.com "Forth-based products and Services for real-time applications since 1973." ==================================================
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| From | Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-03 03:46 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <nst5tg$fnc$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #51559 |
On 10/3/2016 2:32 AM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: > On 10/2/16 1:00 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote: >> Am Sat, 01 Oct 2016 15:31:03 -1000 schrieb Elizabeth D. Rather: >> >>> On 10/1/16 2:10 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote: >>>> However, IIRC, the editor commands lived in a special editor >>>> vocabulary, and only L was visible by default, switching to the editor >>>> vocabulary when used. That way, all those one-letter editor words like >>>> I (insert) did not collide with normal Forth words. >>>> >>>> In SwiftForth, B and N are globally visible, though. >>> >>> True. SwiftForth doesn't have an internal editor, because it can >>> interface well to external editors. Incidentally, there were 3 versions >>> of I in earlier FORTH, Inc. products: the loop version, the editor >>> version (Insert), and the assembler version (the register or location >>> used for the Interpreter pointer), each in the appropriate wordlist, of >>> course. >> >> Still begs the question if resurrecting the EDITOR vocabulary for these >> few words might be useful. > > It could be done in a heartbeat if anyone complained of problems with > these words. AFAIK no one has. > >> Actually, the Gforth LOCATE browser does read >> in the file in a way that is usable for a PolyForth-style editor, and >> adding such a simple editor would be just a few dozen lines. Or adding a >> full-screen editor maybe would be a line or two more (don't know how >> many ;-). I would use the command line editor to edit the individual >> lines, which then would give features like tab completion "for free". > > The basic polyFORTH editor was 16 lines, with a second block added to > provide a "screen editor". It was discarded because most of our users > preferred programmers' editors that they used in other projects, so it > hardly seemed worthwhile to modify it to work in files rather than blocks. > > Cheers, > Elizabeth > I could see where a block editor might be handy even as a general purpose editor, specially in embedded systems where the CPUs keep having more and more memory, some up to 2 Megabytes, plenty for programs and locally edit some files with a simple editor which might be faster than downloading the whole source from a PC. -- Cecil - k5nwa
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| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-02 23:25 -1000 |
| Message-ID | <Ub6dnVzy-eJwvm_KnZ2dnUU7-L_NnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #51561 |
On 10/2/16 10:46 PM, Cecil Bayona wrote: > > > On 10/3/2016 2:32 AM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: >> On 10/2/16 1:00 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote: >>> Am Sat, 01 Oct 2016 15:31:03 -1000 schrieb Elizabeth D. Rather: >>> >>>> On 10/1/16 2:10 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote: >>>>> However, IIRC, the editor commands lived in a special editor >>>>> vocabulary, and only L was visible by default, switching to the editor >>>>> vocabulary when used. That way, all those one-letter editor words >>>>> like >>>>> I (insert) did not collide with normal Forth words. >>>>> >>>>> In SwiftForth, B and N are globally visible, though. >>>> >>>> True. SwiftForth doesn't have an internal editor, because it can >>>> interface well to external editors. Incidentally, there were 3 versions >>>> of I in earlier FORTH, Inc. products: the loop version, the editor >>>> version (Insert), and the assembler version (the register or location >>>> used for the Interpreter pointer), each in the appropriate wordlist, of >>>> course. >>> >>> Still begs the question if resurrecting the EDITOR vocabulary for these >>> few words might be useful. >> >> It could be done in a heartbeat if anyone complained of problems with >> these words. AFAIK no one has. >> >>> Actually, the Gforth LOCATE browser does read >>> in the file in a way that is usable for a PolyForth-style editor, and >>> adding such a simple editor would be just a few dozen lines. Or >>> adding a >>> full-screen editor maybe would be a line or two more (don't know how >>> many ;-). I would use the command line editor to edit the individual >>> lines, which then would give features like tab completion "for free". >> >> The basic polyFORTH editor was 16 lines, with a second block added to >> provide a "screen editor". It was discarded because most of our users >> preferred programmers' editors that they used in other projects, so it >> hardly seemed worthwhile to modify it to work in files rather than >> blocks. >> >> Cheers, >> Elizabeth >> > I could see where a block editor might be handy even as a general > purpose editor, specially in embedded systems where the CPUs keep having > more and more memory, some up to 2 Megabytes, plenty for programs and > locally edit some files with a simple editor which might be faster than > downloading the whole source from a PC. Well, that's why we prefer working with an interactive cross-compiler. We can use full-function programmer's editors, have a much more powerful compiler, and download the compiled code in less than a second. Cheers, Elizabeth -- ================================================== Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 Los Angeles, CA 90045 http://www.forth.com "Forth-based products and Services for real-time applications since 1973." ==================================================
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| From | albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-03 12:57 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <nstdji$oug$1@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #51561 |
In article <nst5tg$fnc$1@dont-email.me>, Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> wrote: > > >On 10/3/2016 2:32 AM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: >> On 10/2/16 1:00 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote: >>> Am Sat, 01 Oct 2016 15:31:03 -1000 schrieb Elizabeth D. Rather: >>> >>>> On 10/1/16 2:10 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote: >>>>> However, IIRC, the editor commands lived in a special editor >>>>> vocabulary, and only L was visible by default, switching to the editor >>>>> vocabulary when used. That way, all those one-letter editor words like >>>>> I (insert) did not collide with normal Forth words. >>>>> >>>>> In SwiftForth, B and N are globally visible, though. >>>> >>>> True. SwiftForth doesn't have an internal editor, because it can >>>> interface well to external editors. Incidentally, there were 3 versions >>>> of I in earlier FORTH, Inc. products: the loop version, the editor >>>> version (Insert), and the assembler version (the register or location >>>> used for the Interpreter pointer), each in the appropriate wordlist, of >>>> course. >>> >>> Still begs the question if resurrecting the EDITOR vocabulary for these >>> few words might be useful. >> >> It could be done in a heartbeat if anyone complained of problems with >> these words. AFAIK no one has. >> >>> Actually, the Gforth LOCATE browser does read >>> in the file in a way that is usable for a PolyForth-style editor, and >>> adding such a simple editor would be just a few dozen lines. Or adding a >>> full-screen editor maybe would be a line or two more (don't know how >>> many ;-). I would use the command line editor to edit the individual >>> lines, which then would give features like tab completion "for free". >> >> The basic polyFORTH editor was 16 lines, with a second block added to >> provide a "screen editor". It was discarded because most of our users >> preferred programmers' editors that they used in other projects, so it >> hardly seemed worthwhile to modify it to work in files rather than blocks. >> >> Cheers, >> Elizabeth >> >I could see where a block editor might be handy even as a general >purpose editor, specially in embedded systems where the CPUs keep having >more and more memory, some up to 2 Megabytes, plenty for programs and >locally edit some files with a simple editor which might be faster than >downloading the whole source from a PC. I implemented a screen editor for MSDOS. This provides easy experimenting with new facilities in the screens. It works directly on the video buffer. Apart from the Wordstar move by char, move by word, it stacks deleted lines and words, and they are visible on the bottom of the screen, where they can be undeleted. With slightly over a dozen single character control commands, it is by far the most practical screen editor I've ever seen. E.g. to duplicate a line ^Y delete a line appears at the bottom ^U insert it ^U insert it again This is also useful for a booting Forth, switching back to real mode to access the video buffer, and accessing the large memory of the machine in 32 bits protected mode. In a situation where you use a pc as a terminal to connect to a sbc, it doesn't make sense to try have a screen editor on the sbc. It is easier to transport a screen to the pc, use a screen editor there, and transport it back. Almost everybody will save it to a small file, edit that, and check whether it fits while uploading. Or do it the Commodore 64/ BASIC way. Fool around on the PC screen, insert and delete chars here and there. Then mark an area with the mouse and press a special key to transfer it back to the sbc. As there is just one block-file for all ciforth versions the MSDOS editor can be found in forth.lab for lina32/lina64. It can be made to work on Linux by using TERMCAP or infocmp, with the same front end of the editor, any takers? >-- >Cecil - k5nwa Groetjes Albert -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| From | lawrencedo99@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-03 04:31 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <adb48ba5-3633-46cc-b36f-51373cc1fe90@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #51563 |
On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 11:48:56 PM UTC+13, Albert van der Horst wrote: > As there is just one block-file for all ciforth versions > the MSDOS editor can be found in forth.lab for lina32/lina64. > It can be made to work on Linux by using TERMCAP or infocmp, > with the same front end of the editor, any takers? Probably more fruitful to reimplement it as extension macros for Emacs.
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| From | anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-04 09:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <2016Oct4.111815@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #51554 |
Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> writes:
>Am Sat, 01 Oct 2016 15:31:03 -1000 schrieb Elizabeth D. Rather:
>
>> On 10/1/16 2:10 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote:
>>> However, IIRC, the editor commands lived in a special editor
>>> vocabulary, and only L was visible by default, switching to the editor
>>> vocabulary when used. That way, all those one-letter editor words like
>>> I (insert) did not collide with normal Forth words.
>>>
>>> In SwiftForth, B and N are globally visible, though.
>>
>> True. SwiftForth doesn't have an internal editor, because it can
>> interface well to external editors. Incidentally, there were 3 versions
>> of I in earlier FORTH, Inc. products: the loop version, the editor
>> version (Insert), and the assembler version (the register or location
>> used for the Interpreter pointer), each in the appropriate wordlist, of
>> course.
>
>Still begs the question if resurrecting the EDITOR vocabulary for these
>few words might be useful.
B and N don't collide with other words, and for numbers the way to go
is to write $B or 0B, so I don't see a point in putting them into the
EDITOR vocabulary. I would just burden the users with either always
having the EDITOR vocabulary in the search order, or with typing
PREVIOUS once for every L.
>Actually, the Gforth LOCATE browser does read
>in the file in a way that is usable for a PolyForth-style editor, and
>adding such a simple editor would be just a few dozen lines. Or adding a
>full-screen editor maybe would be a line or two more (don't know how
>many ;-). I would use the command line editor to edit the individual
>lines, which then would give features like tab completion "for free".
What would be the point of such an editor, other than to prove that
you can do it? Nobody would use it. Even Forth, Inc., has not
supplied such an editor for files, because everybody prefers their
favourite file editor.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2016: http://www.euroforth.org/ef16/
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| From | Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-04 21:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nt18kl$no7$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #51598 |
Am Tue, 04 Oct 2016 09:18:15 +0000 schrieb Anton Ertl: >>Actually, the Gforth LOCATE browser does read in the file in a way that >>is usable for a PolyForth-style editor, and adding such a simple editor >>would be just a few dozen lines. Or adding a full-screen editor maybe >>would be a line or two more (don't know how many ;-). I would use the >>command line editor to edit the individual lines, which then would give >>features like tab completion "for free". > > What would be the point of such an editor, other than to prove that you > can do it? Nobody would use it. Even Forth, Inc., has not supplied > such an editor for files, because everybody prefers their favourite file > editor. The Android users have already asked for a built-in editor... because they don't have a "favorite file editor" on their OS. The available editors as part of file managers are very limited. -- Bernd Paysan "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself" net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ* http://bernd-paysan.de/
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| From | jjmail9@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-19 06:47 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <f6e6ed57-5cd9-47c7-913b-b21eb4b64153@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #51617 |
It's not true that Gforth Android users don't have a favorite editor. We just can't interface with them without using the Android "Intent" system:)
Also, writing a Gforth "internal" editor--I won't say "native"--is a rather trivial project. Most of the code is already
written into Gforth "version#" files, especially history.fs.
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| From | Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-21 20:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nudtec$d47$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #52045 |
Am Wed, 19 Oct 2016 06:47:03 -0700 schrieb jjmail9:
> It's not true that Gforth Android users don't have a favorite editor.
I don't. None of the editors I have installed on my Android is anything
close to "favorite". I may have a "least hated editor" on Android. Maybe
I didn't look long enough ;-).
> We just can't interface with them without using the Android "Intent"
> system:)
But we for sure can use the Android "Intent" system using JNI, can't we?
Just nobody so far has done it... The code in Java is pretty simple:
Intent intent = new Intent(Intent.ACTION_EDIT);
Uri uri = Uri.parse("file:///sdcard/folder/file.txt");
intent.setDataAndType(uri, "text/plain");
startActivity(intent);
One essential problem here for good integration is that you can't tell
the intent, where in the file it should start editing...
--
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ*
http://bernd-paysan.de/
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| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-04 12:40 -1000 |
| Message-ID | <xPmdnXkhMvdfsmnKnZ2dnUU7-VnNnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #51598 |
On 10/3/16 11:18 PM, Anton Ertl wrote: > Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> writes: >> Am Sat, 01 Oct 2016 15:31:03 -1000 schrieb Elizabeth D. Rather: >> >>> On 10/1/16 2:10 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote: >>>> However, IIRC, the editor commands lived in a special editor >>>> vocabulary, and only L was visible by default, switching to the editor >>>> vocabulary when used. That way, all those one-letter editor words like >>>> I (insert) did not collide with normal Forth words. >>>> >>>> In SwiftForth, B and N are globally visible, though. >>> >>> True. SwiftForth doesn't have an internal editor, because it can >>> interface well to external editors. Incidentally, there were 3 versions >>> of I in earlier FORTH, Inc. products: the loop version, the editor >>> version (Insert), and the assembler version (the register or location >>> used for the Interpreter pointer), each in the appropriate wordlist, of >>> course. >> >> Still begs the question if resurrecting the EDITOR vocabulary for these >> few words might be useful. > > B and N don't collide with other words, and for numbers the way to go > is to write $B or 0B, so I don't see a point in putting them into the > EDITOR vocabulary. I would just burden the users with either always > having the EDITOR vocabulary in the search order, or with typing > PREVIOUS once for every L. If EDITOR is always in the search order, what's the point in having it? It was necessary in polyFORTH and its predecessors because of the "three I's" described above. Cheers, Elizabeth -- ================================================== Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 Los Angeles, CA 90045 http://www.forth.com "Forth-based products and Services for real-time applications since 1973." ==================================================
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