Re: When to use !name vs. name! ?

From	"HAA" <someone@microsoft.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: When to use !name vs. name! ?
Date	2017-03-18 09:49 +1100
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<oahp1s$341$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	<oa7clo$1pao$1@gioia.aioe.org> <oafbg5$o8g$1@dont-email.me> <rr6dnZECzYMUDFbFnZ2dnUU7-dnNnZ2d@supernews.com>

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Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 3/16/17 2:46 PM, rickman wrote:
> > On 3/13/2017 8:15 PM, HAA wrote:
> >> This has come up before but without resolution i.e. when to use the form
> >> !name  @name  vs.  name!  name@ ?
> >>
> >> The advantage of these is shortness.  Thinking Forth and FHP list both
> >> forms but the descriptions are too vague or in some cases identical.
> >> Scanning SwiftForth source files hasn't helped as there aren't enough
> >> examples to suggest a pattern.
> >>
> >> One rationale is to use  !xxx  @xxx  when the operation doesn't take or
> >> leave items on the data stack e.g.
> >> @settings ( -- )  !settings ( -- )
> >>
> >> This is fine but such cases don't occur often enough to warrant the use.
> >
> > I guess I'm showing my lack of experience, but when do fetch and store
> > words not use parameters on the stack?
> >
> > I thought there was already a convention that words which are
> > functionally equivalent to name @ and name ! would be name@ and name!
> > respectively.  No?
> >
> > What would you need @name for?
>
> That's a carryover from the very early days, when Forth names were
> stored in the dictionary as count+1st 3 chars. In the era of extreme
> memory conservation (mostly the 70's; at NRAO Chuck controlled the 36'
> radio telescope and its dome and managed 4 concurrent terminals with
> operators in a 32Kb computer) that was necessary. So, we put the operant
> symbol (@ or !) first.
>
> Cheers.
> Elizabeth

Never considered that.  Would you then regard it as an obsolete convention
best forgotten - or would it have some (new) use today?

Thread

When to use  !name  vs.  name! ? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-03-14 11:15 +1100
  Re: When to use  !name  vs.  name! ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-13 18:27 -0700
    Re: When to use  !name  vs.  name! ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-03-14 01:33 -0700
  Re: When to use  !name  vs.  name! ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-03-14 01:30 -0700
  When to use  !name  vs.  name! ? NN <november.nihal@gmail.com> - 2017-03-14 02:56 -0700
    Re: When to use  !name  vs.  name! ? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-03-16 08:59 +1100
      Re: When to use  !name  vs.  name! ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 02:11 -0700
        Re: When to use  !name  vs.  name! ? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-03-17 11:19 +1100
  Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 20:46 -0400
    Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-03-16 21:34 -1000
      Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-03-18 09:49 +1100
        Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-03-17 13:08 -1000
          Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 19:35 -0400
            Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-03-18 00:51 -0700
            Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-03-19 10:47 +1100
              Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-18 22:18 -0400
                Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-03-18 16:36 -1000
                Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-18 23:53 -0400
                Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-03-18 22:22 -1000
                Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-19 16:03 +0000
                Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-03-19 17:42 +0000
                Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-03-19 13:10 -1000
                Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-03-19 13:34 +0100
                Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-19 16:23 +0000
                Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-03-19 20:47 +0100
                Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-03-20 03:47 -0500
                Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-03-20 09:41 +1100
                Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 01:24 +0100
                Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-03-21 12:10 +1100
                Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-20 18:45 -0700
                Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 14:58 +0100
                Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-03-22 19:49 +1100
          Re: When to use !name vs. name! ? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-17 16:46 -0700
  Re: When to use  !name  vs.  name! ? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-12 08:13 +0200

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