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Re: Really?

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From Alex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Really?
Date Thu, 9 Feb 2017 08:56:24 +0000
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On 2/9/2017 06:39, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 6:39:17 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D.
> Rather wrote:
>> On 2/8/17 3:43 AM, Alex wrote:
>>> Back to Hugh's comments about passing data via global variables
>>> making code non-reentrant.
>>>
>>> : increment ( addr -- ) dup @ 1+ swap ! ; \ increment value at
>>> address
>>>
>>> Even though INCREMENT does not itself refer to global variables
>>> and appears at first sight to be reentrant, two tasks using the
>>> shared area SHARED invoking SHARED INCREMENT will give
>>> inconsistent results when SHARED is fetched.
>
>> Managing that sort of situation is an elementary application
>> design. If you have shared memory space in your application, you
>> need very specific rules as to who may change which variables in
>> that space and under what circumstances.
>
> This is the "very specific rule" regarding PAD that Elizabeth Rather
> provided in the ANS-Forth document:
>
> "...is the address of a transient region that can be used to hold
> data for intermediate processing."
>
> ANS-Forth actually has several problems that come from using the same
> memory for different things. This has been discussed before:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.forth/uGAKvs8baQk%5B26-50%5D
>
>  On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 8:11:08 AM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>> On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 11:23:05 PM UTC-7,
>> hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> ANS-Forth is confusing! I was testing my words under VFX just now
>>> and came to this:
>>>
>>> 12345.6789e engineering  ok-2 type 12.345679e32 ok
>>>
>>> WTF??? Does my code have a bug??? Then I tried this:
>>>
>>> 12345.6789e engineering type 12.345679e3  ok
>>>
>>> This works. I realized then that the problem was not in my code,
>>> it was in ANS-Forth --- the outer-interpreter uses the same
>>> memory location for multiple purposes --- my <SCIENTIFIC> is
>>> using the buffer that <# #> uses, and this buffer gets clobbered
>>> by the outer-interpreter before the TYPE gets done on the next
>>> line.

Yes, your code has a bug, since the behaviour you're describing is 
covered by the standard.

Now, I think the standard is deficient in this area, and that some 
remedial work is appropriate; but I suspect that it would possibly fall 
on stony ground and get voted down because of its increased resource 
requirements.

>>
>> Actually, what the student will think is that there is a bug in my
>> novice-package --- he will abandon the novice-package --- he will
>> become a typical ANS-Forth programmer who spends all of his time on
>> comp.lang.forth posting code copied directly out of the "Starting
>> Forth" book and flinging insults at me.

It's a bug, since your <SCIENTIFIC> word doesn't work.

If you had a better software development model for your Forth, like 
github, you would be able to cope better with bugs and changes to the 
source; and also count downloads and do issue management. I picked up 
your novice package recently (What version? Was it the latest? Who 
knows) where you ship sort source code that you no longer support or 
maintain. That's not a reputation enhancing move.

-- 
Alex

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Thread

Really? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 06:46 -0800
  Re: Really? foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-02-06 07:20 -0800
  Re: Really? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 08:58 -0800
  Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 13:06 -0500
  Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-06 11:25 -0800
  Re: Really? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-07 11:45 +1100
  Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-06 15:38 -1000
    Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 09:50 -0800
  Re: Really? Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-02-06 23:39 -0500
    Re: Really? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 08:04 -0800
    Re: Really? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-08 11:04 +1100
      Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 23:42 -0800
        Re: Really? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-08 20:12 +1100
          Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-08 02:44 -0800
          Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-08 17:48 +0000
            Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-08 18:43 +0000
              Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-08 15:24 -0800
            Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-08 16:26 -0800
    Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 22:45 -0800
      Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 22:50 -0800
    Re: Really? clozaga@gmail.com - 2017-02-08 21:03 -0800
      Re: Really? clozaga@gmail.com - 2017-02-08 21:04 -0800
      Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 20:01 -0800
        Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-12 16:26 +0000
          Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-12 16:52 -0800
            Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-13 09:49 +0000
              Re: Really? minforth@arcor.de - 2017-02-13 07:03 -0800
              Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-13 13:41 -0800
                Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-13 22:32 +0000
                Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-15 11:42 -0800
                Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-15 20:41 +0000
                Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-17 09:42 -0800
                Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-17 22:22 +0000
          Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-12 19:24 -1000
            Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-13 08:49 +0000
  Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-07 11:01 +0000
    Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 03:06 -0800
      Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 09:35 -0800
      Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-07 17:35 +0000
        Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 23:24 -0800
          Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-09 08:57 +0000
            Re: Really? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-02-09 13:24 +0100
              Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-11 15:32 +0000
      Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-07 20:42 +0000
        Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-07 13:58 -1000
          Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 21:51 -0800
            Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 01:47 -0500
              Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 22:52 -0800
                Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 03:34 -0500
                Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-08 13:43 +0000
                Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-08 15:39 -1000
                Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-08 22:39 -0800
                Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-09 08:56 +0000
                Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-09 14:36 -0800
                Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 08:33 +0000
                Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-09 09:03 +0000
                Re: Really? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-02-09 10:51 +0100
                Re: Really? john <anon@example.com> - 2017-02-09 11:54 +0000
                Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-09 09:30 -1000
                Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-09 14:14 +0000
                Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-09 14:37 +0000
                Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-09 15:24 +0000
                Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-09 12:01 -0800
                Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-10 01:09 +0000
                Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-09 18:19 -0800
                Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-09 16:30 -1000
                Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-09 19:16 -0800
                Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-10 16:29 +0000
                OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 17:30 +0000
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-10 11:46 -0600
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-02-10 11:54 -0600
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 18:05 +0000
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 17:55 +0000
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-10 12:04 -0600
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 18:07 +0000
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-10 12:57 -0600
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 19:26 +0000
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-10 14:04 -0600
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-11 09:35 +0000
                Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-10 16:33 -0800
                Static type checking (was: Really?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-10 11:07 +0000
                Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-11 15:16 +0000
                Re: Really? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-11 10:20 -0600
                Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 19:02 -0800
                Re: Really? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-02-10 17:31 +0100
                Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-08 15:34 -1000
              Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-07 21:15 -1000
              Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 23:46 -0800
        Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 22:47 -0800
          Re: Really? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 08:52 +0200
    Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 06:29 -0500
      Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-07 20:47 +0000
        Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 16:23 -0500
          Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-08 09:47 +0000
            Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 05:13 -0500
              Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-08 11:23 +0000
    Re: Really? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-07 09:49 -0600
  Really? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 00:30 -0800
    Re: Really? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-10 10:32 +1100
      Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-09 17:22 -0800

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