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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #54701
| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: Really? |
| Date | 2017-02-07 22:45 -0800 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <87o9ydw58t.fsf@nightsong.com> (permalink) |
| References | <1239a88b-a574-401b-9454-50ac7e000049@googlegroups.com> <20170206233939.70a7ecff@_> |
Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> writes: > Valdocs was nearly 16MB of FORTH code (according to the IEEE) running on > a 4MHz Z80 with only 256KB of RAM. Why would you expect it to be a > success? ... What? No Valdocs was nowhere near that large. There was a clf post a year or so linking to the Valdocs source code and I looked at it. It was a mixture of Forth and assembler and I'm glad I didn't have to maintain it, but I'm not that much of a Forther. > So, Forth had developed a bad reputation prior to the Valdocs failure: > https://books.google.com/books?id=nS4EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA80 That's a Dvorak column, one of multiple anti-Forth rants of his. > That link says the Valdocs' "'compact and efficient' Forth code is > more than 400K in size." I could believe there's 400K of Forth source code. That's a heck of a lot less than 16MB. I expect it would compile down to much less than 256K. Here's another writeup about Valdocs that's more positive, by someone involved in its development: http://electronicdesign.com/blog/rising-star It apparently did quite a lot (word processor, mail program, spreadsheet, drawing). Doing that in just 400k actually sounds pretty impressive. FWIW I wrote most of my school papers using a text formatting program (pcroff) originally written for CP/M and I remember it fondly. It doesn't take a whole lot of code or resources for basic word processing. That program was written in C but it would have been doable in Forth, maybe more intuitively even. But it didn't include nearly as much stuff as Valdocs. > That seems to sum up the majority of real world Forth usage as the only > notable projects I can find mentioned anywhere are... The Saudi airport we've all heard about is missing from that list. > Forth is like a set of craftsman’s tools.... Forth programs are > tailored, they’re living and dynamic, not static object code." - > Charles Moore, Byte magazine, Volume 10, pg 316, 1985 Replace Forth with Lisp in that paragraph and you've got a philosophy that accomplished some monumental things in the 1980s.
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Really? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 06:46 -0800
Re: Really? foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-02-06 07:20 -0800
Re: Really? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 08:58 -0800
Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 13:06 -0500
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-06 11:25 -0800
Re: Really? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-07 11:45 +1100
Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-06 15:38 -1000
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 09:50 -0800
Re: Really? Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-02-06 23:39 -0500
Re: Really? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 08:04 -0800
Re: Really? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-08 11:04 +1100
Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 23:42 -0800
Re: Really? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-08 20:12 +1100
Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-08 02:44 -0800
Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-08 17:48 +0000
Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-08 18:43 +0000
Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-08 15:24 -0800
Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-08 16:26 -0800
Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 22:45 -0800
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 22:50 -0800
Re: Really? clozaga@gmail.com - 2017-02-08 21:03 -0800
Re: Really? clozaga@gmail.com - 2017-02-08 21:04 -0800
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 20:01 -0800
Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-12 16:26 +0000
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-12 16:52 -0800
Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-13 09:49 +0000
Re: Really? minforth@arcor.de - 2017-02-13 07:03 -0800
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-13 13:41 -0800
Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-13 22:32 +0000
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-15 11:42 -0800
Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-15 20:41 +0000
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-17 09:42 -0800
Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-17 22:22 +0000
Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-12 19:24 -1000
Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-13 08:49 +0000
Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-07 11:01 +0000
Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 03:06 -0800
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 09:35 -0800
Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-07 17:35 +0000
Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 23:24 -0800
Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-09 08:57 +0000
Re: Really? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-02-09 13:24 +0100
Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-11 15:32 +0000
Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-07 20:42 +0000
Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-07 13:58 -1000
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 21:51 -0800
Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 01:47 -0500
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 22:52 -0800
Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 03:34 -0500
Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-08 13:43 +0000
Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-08 15:39 -1000
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-08 22:39 -0800
Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-09 08:56 +0000
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-09 14:36 -0800
Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 08:33 +0000
Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-09 09:03 +0000
Re: Really? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-02-09 10:51 +0100
Re: Really? john <anon@example.com> - 2017-02-09 11:54 +0000
Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-09 09:30 -1000
Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-09 14:14 +0000
Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-09 14:37 +0000
Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-09 15:24 +0000
Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-09 12:01 -0800
Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-10 01:09 +0000
Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-09 18:19 -0800
Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-09 16:30 -1000
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-09 19:16 -0800
Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-10 16:29 +0000
OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 17:30 +0000
Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-10 11:46 -0600
Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-02-10 11:54 -0600
Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 18:05 +0000
Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 17:55 +0000
Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-10 12:04 -0600
Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 18:07 +0000
Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-10 12:57 -0600
Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 19:26 +0000
Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-10 14:04 -0600
Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-11 09:35 +0000
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-10 16:33 -0800
Static type checking (was: Really?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-10 11:07 +0000
Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-11 15:16 +0000
Re: Really? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-11 10:20 -0600
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 19:02 -0800
Re: Really? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-02-10 17:31 +0100
Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-08 15:34 -1000
Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-07 21:15 -1000
Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 23:46 -0800
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 22:47 -0800
Re: Really? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 08:52 +0200
Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 06:29 -0500
Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-07 20:47 +0000
Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 16:23 -0500
Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-08 09:47 +0000
Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 05:13 -0500
Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-08 11:23 +0000
Re: Really? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-07 09:49 -0600
Really? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 00:30 -0800
Re: Really? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-10 10:32 +1100
Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-09 17:22 -0800
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