Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.lang.forth > #54679

Re: Really?

From "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Really?
Date 2017-02-07 11:45 +1100
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <o7b58m$1q67$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <1239a88b-a574-401b-9454-50ac7e000049@googlegroups.com>

Show all headers | View raw


Mark Wills wrote:
> "As for Forth, although it has dedicated advocates, it's
> explicit stack orientation and its lack of modularity limit
> the scale of Forth programs. One of the largest Forth efforts
> was an integrated operating system called Valdocs (Valuable
> Document System) on the Epson QX-10. The software remained buggy
> couldn't be updated quickly enough for the machine to remain
> competitive - although you could just as easilly blame the
> computer's Z-80 processor (since at the time the 8088 based IBM PC
> and 68000 based Apple Macintosh were being introduced) and difficulty
> in finding experienced Forth programmers. Whatever the cause, this
> soured the acceptance of Forth for large scale projects."
>
> http://www.cpushack.com/CPU/cpuAppendB.html#Forth

What language hasn't produced failures?  A well-known Forther (name
escapes me) who was involved in the Valdocs project spoke about it
(Forth Dimensions?) and put the failure down to early design decisions.
In short too much money had been spent going down the wrong track
and it was impossible to turn back.

The implication of the first sentence in your quote is that Forth is too
low-level to create large projects.  Vendors may be able to demonstrate
otherwise but even if true, does it matter?  There are so many small to
medium projects where Forth can excel.  IMO where Forth (or more
correctly its fans) has failed is the idea that it should be able to compete
with and outperform every other language.  This speaks more of the
insecurities of Forthers than of any qualities of the language.  They don't
produce anything because they don't want to be seen as failures.  Forth
consequently becomes the language that never was.  You'll hear it talked
about on forums but even that will fade away as those who did anything
with it pass on.


Back to comp.lang.forth | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread


Thread

Really? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 06:46 -0800
  Re: Really? foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-02-06 07:20 -0800
  Re: Really? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 08:58 -0800
  Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 13:06 -0500
  Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-06 11:25 -0800
  Re: Really? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-07 11:45 +1100
  Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-06 15:38 -1000
    Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 09:50 -0800
  Re: Really? Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-02-06 23:39 -0500
    Re: Really? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 08:04 -0800
    Re: Really? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-08 11:04 +1100
      Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 23:42 -0800
        Re: Really? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-08 20:12 +1100
          Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-08 02:44 -0800
          Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-08 17:48 +0000
            Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-08 18:43 +0000
              Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-08 15:24 -0800
            Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-08 16:26 -0800
    Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 22:45 -0800
      Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 22:50 -0800
    Re: Really? clozaga@gmail.com - 2017-02-08 21:03 -0800
      Re: Really? clozaga@gmail.com - 2017-02-08 21:04 -0800
      Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 20:01 -0800
        Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-12 16:26 +0000
          Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-12 16:52 -0800
            Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-13 09:49 +0000
              Re: Really? minforth@arcor.de - 2017-02-13 07:03 -0800
              Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-13 13:41 -0800
                Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-13 22:32 +0000
                Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-15 11:42 -0800
                Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-15 20:41 +0000
                Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-17 09:42 -0800
                Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-17 22:22 +0000
          Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-12 19:24 -1000
            Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-13 08:49 +0000
  Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-07 11:01 +0000
    Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 03:06 -0800
      Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 09:35 -0800
      Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-07 17:35 +0000
        Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 23:24 -0800
          Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-09 08:57 +0000
            Re: Really? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-02-09 13:24 +0100
              Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-11 15:32 +0000
      Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-07 20:42 +0000
        Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-07 13:58 -1000
          Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 21:51 -0800
            Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 01:47 -0500
              Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 22:52 -0800
                Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 03:34 -0500
                Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-08 13:43 +0000
                Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-08 15:39 -1000
                Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-08 22:39 -0800
                Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-09 08:56 +0000
                Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-09 14:36 -0800
                Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 08:33 +0000
                Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-09 09:03 +0000
                Re: Really? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-02-09 10:51 +0100
                Re: Really? john <anon@example.com> - 2017-02-09 11:54 +0000
                Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-09 09:30 -1000
                Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-09 14:14 +0000
                Re: Really? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-09 14:37 +0000
                Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-09 15:24 +0000
                Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-09 12:01 -0800
                Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-10 01:09 +0000
                Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-09 18:19 -0800
                Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-09 16:30 -1000
                Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-09 19:16 -0800
                Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-10 16:29 +0000
                OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 17:30 +0000
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-10 11:46 -0600
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-02-10 11:54 -0600
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 18:05 +0000
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 17:55 +0000
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-10 12:04 -0600
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 18:07 +0000
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-10 12:57 -0600
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-10 19:26 +0000
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-10 14:04 -0600
                Re: OT: [ was re: Really?] Foreign aid Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-02-11 09:35 +0000
                Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-10 16:33 -0800
                Static type checking (was: Really?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-10 11:07 +0000
                Re: Really? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-02-11 15:16 +0000
                Re: Really? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-11 10:20 -0600
                Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 19:02 -0800
                Re: Really? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-02-10 17:31 +0100
                Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-08 15:34 -1000
              Re: Really? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-02-07 21:15 -1000
              Re: Really? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-07 23:46 -0800
        Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 22:47 -0800
          Re: Really? Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 08:52 +0200
    Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 06:29 -0500
      Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-07 20:47 +0000
        Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 16:23 -0500
          Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-08 09:47 +0000
            Re: Really? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 05:13 -0500
              Re: Really? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-02-08 11:23 +0000
    Re: Really? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-07 09:49 -0600
  Really? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 00:30 -0800
    Re: Really? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-10 10:32 +1100
      Re: Really? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-09 17:22 -0800

csiph-web