Path: csiph.com!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "HAA" Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth Subject: Re: Really? Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 11:45:16 +1100 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 35 Message-ID: References: <1239a88b-a574-401b-9454-50ac7e000049@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 2ugdE5BYM43zRv47EIaxdw.user.gioia.aioe.org X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Priority: 3 X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.forth:54679 Mark Wills wrote: > "As for Forth, although it has dedicated advocates, it's > explicit stack orientation and its lack of modularity limit > the scale of Forth programs. One of the largest Forth efforts > was an integrated operating system called Valdocs (Valuable > Document System) on the Epson QX-10. The software remained buggy > couldn't be updated quickly enough for the machine to remain > competitive - although you could just as easilly blame the > computer's Z-80 processor (since at the time the 8088 based IBM PC > and 68000 based Apple Macintosh were being introduced) and difficulty > in finding experienced Forth programmers. Whatever the cause, this > soured the acceptance of Forth for large scale projects." > > http://www.cpushack.com/CPU/cpuAppendB.html#Forth What language hasn't produced failures? A well-known Forther (name escapes me) who was involved in the Valdocs project spoke about it (Forth Dimensions?) and put the failure down to early design decisions. In short too much money had been spent going down the wrong track and it was impossible to turn back. The implication of the first sentence in your quote is that Forth is too low-level to create large projects. Vendors may be able to demonstrate otherwise but even if true, does it matter? There are so many small to medium projects where Forth can excel. IMO where Forth (or more correctly its fans) has failed is the idea that it should be able to compete with and outperform every other language. This speaks more of the insecurities of Forthers than of any qualities of the language. They don't produce anything because they don't want to be seen as failures. Forth consequently becomes the language that never was. You'll hear it talked about on forums but even that will fade away as those who did anything with it pass on.