Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0)

Message-ID	<ri6fed-tht.ln1@wilbur.25thandClement.com> (permalink)
From	<william@wilbur.25thandClement.com>
Subject	Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
References	(2 earlier) <lnvawtgxb0.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <1b195986-62eb-4600-9723-1e45cafbc840@googlegroups.com> <580652f9.3303000@news.xs4all.nl> <dee3f944-a3d5-4a19-894e-842894704544@googlegroups.com> <580cb80b.17353375@news.xs4all.nl>
Date	2016-10-29 11:32 -0700

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Richard Bos <raltbos@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 at 11:55:09 AM UTC-5, Richard Bos wrote:
<snip>
>> There are cases where treating memcpy(any,any,0) as a no-op regardless of
>> the values of the pointers is useful.
> 
> Demonstrate one. One realistic(!) case where the _null_ pointer being
> passed to memcpy() is better than the null pointer being caught early.

What's your opinion on the semantics of free? Have you ever found it
convenient that you could pass NULL to free? I find it incredibly
convenient, and that it greatly simplifies my code.

Likewise, IME, I find being able to pass NULL to memcpy (or a memcpy
wrapper) very convenient. I already track the size of referenced objects
(usually data buffers in most contexts where memcpy is used). Adding
additional logic to check for the special case of NULL and/or size == 0 is
superfluous. I find this even more convenient than free accepting NULL
because there's usually only 1 line of code where I pass a persistent
reference to free, but many lines where I pass that reference to memcpy.

I try to write my code to have as few conditionals as possible--for
performance, but mostly because littering superfluous conditionals
everywhere tends to obfuscate code. Ideally an algorithm should work for an
entire range of inputs of the data type.

Now, if you feed it garbage values the output might be garbage, but a well
written program will ideally be able to take garbage in and produce garbage
out without crashing or otherwise violating an implementation-dependent
invariant. In the real world that's difficult to do, but being able to pass
NULL to functions that logically should behave like a noop when the
specified size of the referenced object is 0 gets you long way toward that
ideal. For similar reasons I prefer unsigned types when signedness is
irrelevant specifically because overflow is well defined; garbage in will be
garbage out, and even when the value is the size of an object, it still
reduces by half the number of conditional expressions required to ensure the
invariant (that is, I only need to check whether n <= some_size, rather than
n <= size_size && n >= 0).

I realize that NULL is an odd sort of value in C, giving ample room for
disagreement about whether NULL is a legal value for a particular type in
various contexts, including memcpy (for which, in any event, it is illegal
by definition). But if the question is whether memcpy _should_ accept NULL,
I have no doubt in my mind about the convenience that allowance could
afford.

What I do doubt are the reasons for disallowing it. Is it to permit
implementations to do speculative writes? That doesn't seem to make sense.
Speculative reads, maybe, but these days implementations have to be careful
not to cross page boundaries when doing a speculative read, so the algorithm
either needs to be inherently resilient to that (my preferred solution as a
general matter), or explicitly check for that condition before the loop.

Thread

UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-10-13 12:42 +0200
  Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-13 11:55 +0100
    Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-10-13 13:09 +0200
      Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-13 12:22 +0100
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-13 12:22 -0700
          Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-10-13 12:32 -0700
            Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-10-13 12:34 -0700
    Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-10-13 08:24 -0600
      Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-13 16:22 +0100
      Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-10-13 17:49 +0200
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-10-13 12:02 -0600
  Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-15 20:56 +0200
    Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-15 12:52 -0700
    Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-15 15:55 -0400
    Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-15 13:41 -0700
      Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-16 11:17 +0200
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-16 10:26 +0100
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-10-16 09:55 +0000
          Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-16 08:44 -0400
            Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-17 10:06 +0200
              Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-17 09:06 -0400
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-17 16:29 +0200
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-17 17:05 -0400
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-18 11:19 +0200
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-18 08:04 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-18 16:27 -0400
            Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-17 08:59 -0700
              Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-17 11:21 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-17 13:42 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-17 14:46 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-17 15:52 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-17 16:43 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-18 08:00 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-18 09:14 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-18 09:43 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-18 11:31 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-18 12:49 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-18 12:03 -0700
              Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-17 17:06 -0400
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-17 14:55 -0700
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-16 11:23 -0700
      Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-17 08:49 -0700
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-10-18 16:54 +0000
          Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-18 11:09 -0700
            Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-10-23 13:24 +0000
              Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 09:28 -0700
              Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2016-10-29 11:32 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-29 14:12 -0700
    Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-15 22:00 +0100
      Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-16 02:51 -0700
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-16 11:20 +0100
          Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-16 04:14 -0700
            Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-16 12:22 +0100
            Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-16 13:01 +0100
              Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-16 05:29 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-16 20:47 +0100
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-17 02:08 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-17 10:24 +0200
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-17 08:05 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-17 17:25 +0200
  Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-17 17:08 +0200
    Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lorinczy Zsigmond <zsiga@nospam.for.me> - 2016-10-21 12:46 +0200
      Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-21 08:06 -0700
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-21 18:30 +0200
          Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-21 09:34 -0700
            Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-22 07:42 +0200
              Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-22 10:31 -0400
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-22 17:49 +0200
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-10-22 13:43 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-23 07:47 +0200
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-23 11:07 -0400
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-23 17:45 +0200
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-23 12:16 -0400
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 07:38 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-24 08:38 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 09:44 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-23 12:22 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-23 13:37 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-23 14:15 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2016-10-24 06:11 +0000
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-24 00:58 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-10-23 14:07 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 07:48 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-24 08:40 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 10:03 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-24 12:06 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 13:36 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-24 13:57 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-10-24 14:16 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 17:23 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-10-25 07:57 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-22 18:23 -0400
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-23 10:44 -0400
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-23 16:24 +0100
                Re: Verbing Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-10-23 18:02 +0200
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-10-23 13:26 +0000
          Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-23 07:40 -0700
      Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2016-10-21 23:56 -0700
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-22 12:21 +0200
          Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-22 16:33 -0700

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