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| From | Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) |
| Date | 2016-10-17 16:43 -0700 |
| Organization | None to speak of |
| Message-ID | <lny41mee3s.fsf@kst-u.example.com> (permalink) |
| References | (6 earlier) <e01043bf-9ac9-4efb-a097-01ee97080195@googlegroups.com> <lnfunug7kt.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <b0938930-5d55-4375-a46c-c8697b44cf5b@googlegroups.com> <ln37jufy2r.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <003e026c-0fca-40b2-ab84-2197571d165f@googlegroups.com> |
supercat@casperkitty.com writes:
> On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 4:45:57 PM UTC-5, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> > The Standard clearly intends that except when specified otherwise,
>> > functions that are invoked in ways *that would make use of pointers
>> > given to them* will invoke UB if those pointers are not valid. It
>> > is not clear whether it was *intended* that it was required that
>> > pointers must be valid whether or not they are used, or that the mem*
>> > functions "use" their pointers even when size is zero.
>>
>> Please cite any wording in the standard that supports your "that would
>> make use of pointers given to them" wording.
>
> The opposite of my first sentence above would be that passing invalid
> pointers to functions will not invoke UB, *even if the functions would be
> expected to use those pointers*. The point of my highlighting was to
> indicate that I am conceding only those cases.
So that's consistent with what the standard actually says, which is
that a null pointer argument results in undefined behavior unless
the documentation for the function says otherwise.
Hmm, I just noticed that there is no such explicit exception for
`printf("%p", (void*)0)`. I presume that it's intended to print an
implementation-defined representation of a null pointer, and that the
lack of an explicit exception is an unintentional oversight (the
committee's or perhaps mine if there's something I've missed).
>> N1570 7.1.4p1:
>>
>> Each of the following statements applies unless explicitly
>> stated otherwise in the detailed descriptions that follow: If
>> an argument to a function has an invalid value (such as [...],
>> or a null pointer, or [...]) or [...], the behavior is undefined.
>>
>> Feel free to confirm that the words I've omitted are not relevant
>> to the current discussion.
>
> What is ambiguous is what is meant by the phrase "invalid value" in 7.1.4.
> While the Standard gives some examples of invalid values, the phrase "such
> as" does not imply that everything to its right is always something of the
> type to its left. If a recycling center says it accepts products made of
> thin sheet aluminum such as soda cans, for example, that would not imply
> that it accepts steel soda cans.
I believe the intent is that all the cases following "such as" are meant
to be invalid unless explicitly stated otherwise in the detailed
descriptions. All the cases other than "a null pointer" are clearly
invalid. I find it implausible that that's the only exception,
especially given that there are cases where null pointers are stated
explicitly to be valid. (Usually such a statement is needed because the
behavior would be unclear otherwise.)
> The validity of a pointer argument depends upon whether it can support the
> uses to which it will be put, and if the length is zero, neither argument
> to memcpy() will be used in *any observable fashion whatsoever*. Note that
> the situation is very different with something like free(0) [which is
> defined], or fclose(0) [which isn't] since the only way either function
> could avoid UB when given a null pointer would be to explicitly check for
> it, while the only thing memcpy would need to do is simply ignore a
> parameter whose value could have no defined effect on program execution.
Consider a hypothetical implementation of memcpy() that checks its
arguments, causing a segfault if either s1 or s2 is a null pointer.
You would assert, I presume, that such an implementation would
be non-conforming?
[...]
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
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UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-10-13 12:42 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-13 11:55 +0100
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-10-13 13:09 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-13 12:22 +0100
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-13 12:22 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-10-13 12:32 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-10-13 12:34 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-10-13 08:24 -0600
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-13 16:22 +0100
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-10-13 17:49 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-10-13 12:02 -0600
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-15 20:56 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-15 12:52 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-15 15:55 -0400
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-15 13:41 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-16 11:17 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-16 10:26 +0100
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-10-16 09:55 +0000
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-16 08:44 -0400
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-17 10:06 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-17 09:06 -0400
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-17 16:29 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-17 17:05 -0400
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-18 11:19 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-18 08:04 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-18 16:27 -0400
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-17 08:59 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-17 11:21 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-17 13:42 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-17 14:46 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-17 15:52 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-17 16:43 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-18 08:00 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-18 09:14 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-18 09:43 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-18 11:31 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-18 12:49 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-18 12:03 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-17 17:06 -0400
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-17 14:55 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-16 11:23 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-17 08:49 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-10-18 16:54 +0000
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-18 11:09 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-10-23 13:24 +0000
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 09:28 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2016-10-29 11:32 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-29 14:12 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-15 22:00 +0100
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-16 02:51 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-16 11:20 +0100
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-16 04:14 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-16 12:22 +0100
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-16 13:01 +0100
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-16 05:29 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-16 20:47 +0100
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-17 02:08 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-17 10:24 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-17 08:05 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-17 17:25 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-17 17:08 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lorinczy Zsigmond <zsiga@nospam.for.me> - 2016-10-21 12:46 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-21 08:06 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-21 18:30 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-21 09:34 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-22 07:42 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-22 10:31 -0400
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-22 17:49 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-10-22 13:43 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-23 07:47 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-23 11:07 -0400
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-23 17:45 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-23 12:16 -0400
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 07:38 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-24 08:38 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 09:44 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-23 12:22 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-23 13:37 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-23 14:15 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2016-10-24 06:11 +0000
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-24 00:58 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-10-23 14:07 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 07:48 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-24 08:40 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 10:03 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-24 12:06 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 13:36 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-24 13:57 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-10-24 14:16 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 17:23 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-10-25 07:57 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-22 18:23 -0400
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-23 10:44 -0400
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-23 16:24 +0100
Re: Verbing Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-10-23 18:02 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-10-23 13:26 +0000
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-23 07:40 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2016-10-21 23:56 -0700
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-22 12:21 +0200
Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-22 16:33 -0700
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