Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0)

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From	Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0)
Date	Mon, 17 Oct 2016 14:46:36 -0700
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supercat@casperkitty.com writes:
> On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 1:20:33 PM UTC-5, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> Your argument is based on what the standard says.  What it says,
>> unambiguously, is that the behavior of memcpy() is undefined if
>> either s1 or s1 is null.
>
> The Standard clearly intends that except when specified otherwise,
> functions that are invoked in ways *that would make use of pointers
> given to them* will invoke UB if those pointers are not valid.  It
> is not clear whether it was *intended* that it was required that
> pointers must be valid whether or not they are used, or that the mem*
> functions "use" their pointers even when size is zero.

Please cite any wording in the standard that supports your "that would
make use of pointers given to them" wording.

N1570 7.1.4p1:

    Each of the following statements applies unless explicitly
    stated otherwise in the detailed descriptions that follow: If
    an argument to a function has an invalid value (such as [...],
    or a null pointer, or [...]) or [...], the behavior is undefined.

Feel free to confirm that the words I've omitted are not relevant
to the current discussion.

> In cases where the intention of the Standard is unclear, but where
> an implementation could at essentially zero cost behave in a manner
> that would be consistent not only with the Standard as not any
> plausible interpretation of the intent, I would suggest that people
> seeking to produce quality implementations should interpret the
> Standard in that fashion.

They are most certainly free to do so.  (In fact, memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0)
appears to quietly do nothing on the implementation I'm using, though
its documentation doesn't mention that case so I certainly wouldn't want
to depend on it.)

[big snip]

I don't even necessarly disagree with you that the memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0)
*should* have had defined behavior.  If it had been defined that
way by ANSI, or by the "1984 /usr/group Standard" referenced in the
standard's introduction, I'd be perfectly happy with that, and I'd
feel free to depend on that behavior.  But I'm not bothered by the
fact that the behavior is undefined, and I've seen no evidence that
it was ever intended to be defined.  If the committee had intended
to define the behavior of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0), they could easily
have done so, as they did for free(NULL).  The fact that they didn't
do so is the only evidence I can see (or that I personally need)
of their intent.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

Thread

UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-10-13 12:42 +0200
  Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-13 11:55 +0100
    Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-10-13 13:09 +0200
      Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-13 12:22 +0100
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-13 12:22 -0700
          Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-10-13 12:32 -0700
            Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-10-13 12:34 -0700
    Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-10-13 08:24 -0600
      Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-13 16:22 +0100
      Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-10-13 17:49 +0200
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-10-13 12:02 -0600
  Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-15 20:56 +0200
    Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-15 12:52 -0700
    Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-15 15:55 -0400
    Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-15 13:41 -0700
      Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-16 11:17 +0200
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-16 10:26 +0100
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-10-16 09:55 +0000
          Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-16 08:44 -0400
            Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-17 10:06 +0200
              Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-17 09:06 -0400
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-17 16:29 +0200
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-17 17:05 -0400
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-18 11:19 +0200
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-18 08:04 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-18 16:27 -0400
            Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-17 08:59 -0700
              Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-17 11:21 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-17 13:42 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-17 14:46 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-17 15:52 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-17 16:43 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-18 08:00 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-18 09:14 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-18 09:43 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-18 11:31 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-18 12:49 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-18 12:03 -0700
              Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-17 17:06 -0400
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-17 14:55 -0700
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-16 11:23 -0700
      Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-17 08:49 -0700
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-10-18 16:54 +0000
          Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-18 11:09 -0700
            Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-10-23 13:24 +0000
              Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 09:28 -0700
              Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2016-10-29 11:32 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-29 14:12 -0700
    Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-15 22:00 +0100
      Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-16 02:51 -0700
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-16 11:20 +0100
          Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-16 04:14 -0700
            Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-16 12:22 +0100
            Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-16 13:01 +0100
              Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-16 05:29 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-16 20:47 +0100
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-17 02:08 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-17 10:24 +0200
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-17 08:05 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-17 17:25 +0200
  Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-17 17:08 +0200
    Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lorinczy Zsigmond <zsiga@nospam.for.me> - 2016-10-21 12:46 +0200
      Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-21 08:06 -0700
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-21 18:30 +0200
          Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-21 09:34 -0700
            Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-22 07:42 +0200
              Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-22 10:31 -0400
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-22 17:49 +0200
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-10-22 13:43 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-23 07:47 +0200
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-23 11:07 -0400
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-23 17:45 +0200
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-23 12:16 -0400
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 07:38 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-24 08:38 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 09:44 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-23 12:22 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-23 13:37 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-23 14:15 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2016-10-24 06:11 +0000
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-24 00:58 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-10-23 14:07 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 07:48 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-24 08:40 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 10:03 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-24 12:06 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 13:36 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-24 13:57 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-10-24 14:16 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-24 17:23 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-10-25 07:57 -0700
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-22 18:23 -0400
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-23 10:44 -0400
                Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-23 16:24 +0100
                Re: Verbing Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-10-23 18:02 +0200
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-10-23 13:26 +0000
          Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-23 07:40 -0700
      Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2016-10-21 23:56 -0700
        Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2016-10-22 12:21 +0200
          Re: UB of memcpy(NULL, NULL, 0) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-22 16:33 -0700

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