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Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated???

From David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++
Subject Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated???
Date 2022-09-28 11:00 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <th12f4$b2d9$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <jpdtc1Fltd5U1@mid.individual.net> <tgufla$1ebg$1@dont-email.me> <jpgeksF3e8sU1@mid.individual.net> <tgv791$3ilt$2@dont-email.me> <20220927172027.565@kylheku.com>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 28/09/2022 02:26, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.c.]

(Please don't set follow-ups that exclude groups that are clearly 
relevant and part of the active thread - it just breaks up conversations.)

> On 2022-09-27, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> On 27/09/2022 16:11, rbowman wrote:

<snip>

>>> I'm not fond of 'const'. We have a lot of legacy code where the
>>> programmers used it inappropriately so you wind up casting it away. I
>>> think they saw it in one declaration and decided it was always needed.
>>> Used correctly it's valuable
>>
>> Is it not better just to say that you are not fond of incorrect and
>> badly written code?  If you have code written by people who don't know
>> how to use "const" properly, you should not let that stop you using it
>> when it is useful.
> 
> const requires a modicum of generic programming to use in a satisfactory
> manner in all circumstances. The problem is that functions with
> const-qualified pointer arguments accept qualified and unqualified
> pointers.
> 
> If they return a pointer into the same object, if they make it
> const-qualified, it's inconvenient. If they return unqualified,
> an unsafe cast is required inside the function.

Yes, being "const consistent" can sometimes be awkward.  That does not 
mean avoiding "const" is a good idea - it just means "const" is not 
quite as simple as one might like.

> 
> The C++ versions of certain C library headers fix this. You can
> have code like this:
> 
>     const char *ptr = strchr(const_str, 'a');
> 
> as well as
> 
>     char *ptr = strchr(non_const_str, 'a');
> 
> thanks to there being two C++ overloads for the function.

Yes.

> 
> (I'm guessing that the C11 _Generic thing could be used for this,
> to create a strchr-like macro that has cases for const
> and non-const.)
> 

Yes, _Generic certainly could handle that.

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Thread

“Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-09-21 14:04 -0500
  Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-09-21 12:28 -0700
  Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-22 06:16 +0000
    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-22 09:45 +0200
    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 02:07 -0400
      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-26 08:42 +0200
        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-26 15:24 +0000
          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 09:00 -0700
            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-26 16:11 +0000
              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 09:22 -0700
  Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-22 09:41 +0000
    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-22 16:46 +0100
      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-09-22 16:15 +0000
      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-22 20:43 +0200
        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-22 20:15 +0100
          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-22 22:56 +0200
            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-22 23:15 +0100
              g++ with -O6 slower than with  -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid> - 2022-09-23 13:44 +0200
                Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-23 13:53 +0100
                Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-23 15:31 +0200
                Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-23 15:53 +0200
                Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid> - 2022-09-23 16:21 +0200
                Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-24 17:05 +0200
                Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2022-09-24 12:33 -0700
                Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-25 08:45 +0000
            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-23 00:08 +0100
            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-23 07:45 +0000
              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-09-23 12:13 +0300
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-23 10:01 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-23 03:14 -0700
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:01 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-02 12:57 -0700
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-10-02 13:53 -0700
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-07 16:00 -0700
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-10-08 10:57 -0700
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-09 08:33 -0700
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-23 11:58 +0100
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:01 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 02:03 -0400
              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-23 13:32 +0200
              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2022-09-23 14:43 -0700
        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-23 07:26 +0000
          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-23 11:15 +0100
          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-23 12:35 -0700
            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-09-23 12:44 -0700
            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:09 +0000
    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-24 13:25 +0200
      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:13 +0000
        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 10:44 -0700
          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-27 06:26 +0000
            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2022-09-27 09:56 -0600
            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-27 10:50 -0700
    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 01:57 -0400
  Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2022-09-22 14:01 +0000
  Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-23 03:17 +0000
    Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-23 07:50 +0000
      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-23 13:37 +0200
        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:19 +0000
          Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-26 13:55 +0200
            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 14:31 +0000
              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-26 16:05 +0100
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-27 06:36 +0000
              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-27 11:21 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-27 13:26 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-27 16:53 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-28 10:32 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-27 18:18 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2022-09-28 01:30 -0400
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-28 08:26 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-28 10:43 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2022-09-28 13:15 -0400
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-28 23:38 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-29 11:46 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-29 17:58 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-30 09:17 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-30 16:39 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-01 12:47 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-30 17:20 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-09-30 20:59 +0300
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-02 07:31 -0700
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-02 13:38 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-10-02 13:00 +0100
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-02 16:20 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-10-02 22:05 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-03 11:58 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-02 07:24 -0700
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-28 09:40 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-09-28 07:56 -0400
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-28 15:50 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-28 14:21 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-28 16:17 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-28 16:56 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-28 20:31 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2022-09-28 21:45 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-29 11:50 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-09-28 19:33 -0400
            Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2022-09-26 09:04 -0600
              Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-27 11:27 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2022-09-27 08:11 -0600
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-27 18:10 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2022-09-27 17:30 -0600
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-28 00:26 +0000
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-28 11:00 +0200
                Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-28 13:33 +0100
      Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-09-25 19:31 +0200
        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-26 04:53 +0000
        Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-02 12:59 -0700
  Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Opus <ifonly@youknew.org> - 2022-09-23 18:32 +0200
  Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 02:08 -0400

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