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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #86692
| From | Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++ |
| Subject | Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? |
| Date | 2022-09-28 23:38 +0000 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <20220928162825.705@kylheku.com> (permalink) |
| References | (10 earlier) <7BIYK.100167$ocy7.42366@fx38.iad> <20220927165229.354@kylheku.com> <th0m63$a507$1@dont-email.me> <20220928012034.643@kylheku.com> <th1vf4$dfa0$1@dont-email.me> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 2022-09-28, James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
> On 9/28/22 04:26, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.c.]
>> On 2022-09-28, James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>> On 9/27/22 20:03, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>>> On 2022-09-27, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>> ...
>>>>> temp1 = complex_expr;
>>>>> temp2 = another_complex_expr;
>>>>> temp3 = yet_another_complex_expr;
>>>>>
>>>>> make_object(temp1, temp2, temp3).
>>>>
>>>> That transformation is the job of the compiler, though.
>>>>
>>>> It's not practical to do this even in small programs, let alone
>>>> ones in which there are millions of function call expressions.
>>>
>>> You only do it when the order actually matters, not automatically for
>>> all function calls.
>>
>> OK; I still need the compiler to tell me where those places are;
>
> You've got the communications direction wrong. Writing code that way is
> how you tell the compiler that the order matters. Writing it as a simple
> function call without explicit temporaries is how you tell the compiler
> that you think the order doesn't matter. A good compiler should inform
> you if realizes that the assumption is incorrect.
Of course, I can tell which is the case by inspection. Problem is,
suppose I didn't write the code myself and there are tens of thousands
of function calls in it. I can't inspect them all, and so that's why
I would need the compiler to tell me where the places are.
I suspect that practically achievable diagnostics in this area will
yield lots of false positives.
For instance, the order probably doesn't matter in code like this:
debug_pf("device %s: status %x\n", dev_name(d), dev_status(d));
yet, this code potentially has behavior dependent on the order
of the function calls. The functions are external, defined in another
translation unit; the compiler has no idea whether they mutate the d
object. A diagnostic feature warning about potential side effects in
function arguments would have to flag this.
Really, the best solution is not to have this class of bug at all
by a fixed order of evaluation.
--
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
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“Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-09-21 14:04 -0500
Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-09-21 12:28 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-22 06:16 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-22 09:45 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 02:07 -0400
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-26 08:42 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-26 15:24 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 09:00 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-26 16:11 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 09:22 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-22 09:41 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-22 16:46 +0100
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-09-22 16:15 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-22 20:43 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-22 20:15 +0100
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-22 22:56 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-22 23:15 +0100
g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid> - 2022-09-23 13:44 +0200
Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-23 13:53 +0100
Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-23 15:31 +0200
Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-23 15:53 +0200
Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid> - 2022-09-23 16:21 +0200
Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-24 17:05 +0200
Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2022-09-24 12:33 -0700
Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-25 08:45 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-23 00:08 +0100
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-23 07:45 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-09-23 12:13 +0300
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-23 10:01 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-23 03:14 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:01 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-02 12:57 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-10-02 13:53 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-07 16:00 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-10-08 10:57 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-09 08:33 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-23 11:58 +0100
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:01 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 02:03 -0400
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-23 13:32 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2022-09-23 14:43 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-23 07:26 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-23 11:15 +0100
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-23 12:35 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-09-23 12:44 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:09 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-24 13:25 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:13 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 10:44 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-27 06:26 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2022-09-27 09:56 -0600
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-27 10:50 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 01:57 -0400
Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2022-09-22 14:01 +0000
Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-23 03:17 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-23 07:50 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-23 13:37 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:19 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-26 13:55 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 14:31 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-26 16:05 +0100
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-27 06:36 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-27 11:21 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-27 13:26 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-27 16:53 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-28 10:32 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-27 18:18 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2022-09-28 01:30 -0400
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-28 08:26 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-28 10:43 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2022-09-28 13:15 -0400
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-28 23:38 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-29 11:46 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-29 17:58 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-30 09:17 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-30 16:39 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-01 12:47 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-30 17:20 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-09-30 20:59 +0300
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-02 07:31 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-02 13:38 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-10-02 13:00 +0100
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-02 16:20 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-10-02 22:05 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-03 11:58 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-02 07:24 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-28 09:40 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-09-28 07:56 -0400
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-28 15:50 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-28 14:21 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-28 16:17 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-28 16:56 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-28 20:31 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2022-09-28 21:45 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-29 11:50 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-09-28 19:33 -0400
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2022-09-26 09:04 -0600
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-27 11:27 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2022-09-27 08:11 -0600
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-27 18:10 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2022-09-27 17:30 -0600
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-28 00:26 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-28 11:00 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-28 13:33 +0100
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-09-25 19:31 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-26 04:53 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-02 12:59 -0700
Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Opus <ifonly@youknew.org> - 2022-09-23 18:32 +0200
Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 02:08 -0400
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