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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #86469 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2022-09-21 14:04 -0500 |
| Last post | 2022-09-26 02:08 -0400 |
| Articles | 9 on this page of 109 — 28 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.c++
“Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-09-21 14:04 -0500
Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-09-21 12:28 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-22 06:16 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-22 09:45 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 02:07 -0400
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-26 08:42 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-26 15:24 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 09:00 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-26 16:11 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 09:22 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-22 09:41 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-22 16:46 +0100
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-09-22 16:15 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-22 20:43 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-22 20:15 +0100
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-22 22:56 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-22 23:15 +0100
g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid> - 2022-09-23 13:44 +0200
Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-23 13:53 +0100
Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-23 15:31 +0200
Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-23 15:53 +0200
Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid> - 2022-09-23 16:21 +0200
Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-24 17:05 +0200
Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated"] red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2022-09-24 12:33 -0700
Re: g++ with -O6 slower than with -O2 [was Re: "Microsoft Azure CTO Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-09-25 08:45 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-23 00:08 +0100
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-23 07:45 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-09-23 12:13 +0300
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-23 10:01 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-23 03:14 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:01 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-02 12:57 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-10-02 13:53 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-07 16:00 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-10-08 10:57 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-09 08:33 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-23 11:58 +0100
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:01 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 02:03 -0400
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-23 13:32 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2022-09-23 14:43 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-23 07:26 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-23 11:15 +0100
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-23 12:35 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-09-23 12:44 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:09 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-09-24 13:25 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:13 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 10:44 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-27 06:26 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2022-09-27 09:56 -0600
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-09-27 10:50 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 01:57 -0400
Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2022-09-22 14:01 +0000
Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-23 03:17 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-23 07:50 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-23 13:37 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 08:19 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-26 13:55 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-26 14:31 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-09-26 16:05 +0100
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-27 06:36 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-27 11:21 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-09-27 13:26 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-27 16:53 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-28 10:32 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-27 18:18 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2022-09-28 01:30 -0400
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-28 08:26 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-28 10:43 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2022-09-28 13:15 -0400
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-28 23:38 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-29 11:46 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-29 17:58 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-30 09:17 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-30 16:39 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-01 12:47 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-30 17:20 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-09-30 20:59 +0300
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-02 07:31 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-02 13:38 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-10-02 13:00 +0100
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-02 16:20 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-10-02 22:05 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-03 11:58 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-02 07:24 -0700
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-28 09:40 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-09-28 07:56 -0400
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-28 15:50 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-28 14:21 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-09-28 16:17 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-28 16:56 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-09-28 20:31 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2022-09-28 21:45 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-29 11:50 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-09-28 19:33 -0400
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2022-09-26 09:04 -0600
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-27 11:27 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2022-09-27 08:11 -0600
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-27 18:10 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2022-09-27 17:30 -0600
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-28 00:26 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-09-28 11:00 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-09-28 13:33 +0100
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-09-25 19:31 +0200
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-09-26 04:53 +0000
Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-10-02 12:59 -0700
Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Opus <ifonly@youknew.org> - 2022-09-23 18:32 +0200
Re: “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2022-09-26 02:08 -0400
Page 6 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6]
| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-27 17:30 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? |
| Message-ID | <jphfbtF8bpfU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #86655 |
On 9/27/22 10:10, David Brown wrote: > On 27/09/2022 16:11, rbowman wrote: >> On 9/27/22 03:27, David Brown wrote: >>> On 26/09/2022 17:04, rbowman wrote: >>>> On 9/26/22 05:55, David Brown wrote: >>>>> Designated initialisers are certainly nice, but I would not call >>>>> them the "best" feature of C99. If I were to pick one favourite >>>>> C99 feature, it would be mixing declarations and statements - but >>>>> such choices are highly subjective. However, it's taken until >>>>> C++20 to get designated initialisers in C++, which suggests that >>>>> they were not viewed as the most important feature (though there >>>>> has certainly been plenty of call for them in C++). >>>> >>>> I'd go with the ability to place declarations close to the code >>>> using them also. Throwing in curly braces worked but it wasn't too >>>> elegant. >>>> >>> >>> That is one of the important benefits of being able to mix >>> declarations and statements, so I think we agree on our favourite >>> feature. >>> >>> It is not the only benefit, however. Declaring your variable only >>> when you have something useful to put in it lets you make many such >>> variables "const" - then both the programmer and the compiler know it >>> is not going to change. It makes adding new local variables "cheap" >>> - so instead of re-using a single "int temp;" variable in a dozen >>> places in the function, you have many const variables that do one >>> thing, with one name, and you always know exactly what they are. >> >> I'm not fond of 'const'. We have a lot of legacy code where the >> programmers used it inappropriately so you wind up casting it away. I >> think they saw it in one declaration and decided it was always needed. >> Used correctly it's valuable > > Is it not better just to say that you are not fond of incorrect and > badly written code? If you have code written by people who don't know > how to use "const" properly, you should not let that stop you using it > when it is useful. > That is true but dealing with badly written code is part of my life.
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| From | Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-28 00:26 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? |
| Message-ID | <20220927172027.565@kylheku.com> |
| In reply to | #86655 |
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.c.] On 2022-09-27, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: > On 27/09/2022 16:11, rbowman wrote: >> On 9/27/22 03:27, David Brown wrote: >>> On 26/09/2022 17:04, rbowman wrote: >>>> On 9/26/22 05:55, David Brown wrote: >>>>> Designated initialisers are certainly nice, but I would not call >>>>> them the "best" feature of C99. If I were to pick one favourite C99 >>>>> feature, it would be mixing declarations and statements - but such >>>>> choices are highly subjective. However, it's taken until C++20 to >>>>> get designated initialisers in C++, which suggests that they were >>>>> not viewed as the most important feature (though there has certainly >>>>> been plenty of call for them in C++). >>>> >>>> I'd go with the ability to place declarations close to the code using >>>> them also. Throwing in curly braces worked but it wasn't too elegant. >>>> >>> >>> That is one of the important benefits of being able to mix >>> declarations and statements, so I think we agree on our favourite >>> feature. >>> >>> It is not the only benefit, however. Declaring your variable only >>> when you have something useful to put in it lets you make many such >>> variables "const" - then both the programmer and the compiler know it >>> is not going to change. It makes adding new local variables "cheap" - >>> so instead of re-using a single "int temp;" variable in a dozen places >>> in the function, you have many const variables that do one thing, with >>> one name, and you always know exactly what they are. >> >> I'm not fond of 'const'. We have a lot of legacy code where the >> programmers used it inappropriately so you wind up casting it away. I >> think they saw it in one declaration and decided it was always needed. >> Used correctly it's valuable > > Is it not better just to say that you are not fond of incorrect and > badly written code? If you have code written by people who don't know > how to use "const" properly, you should not let that stop you using it > when it is useful. const requires a modicum of generic programming to use in a satisfactory manner in all circumstances. The problem is that functions with const-qualified pointer arguments accept qualified and unqualified pointers. If they return a pointer into the same object, if they make it const-qualified, it's inconvenient. If they return unqualified, an unsafe cast is required inside the function. The C++ versions of certain C library headers fix this. You can have code like this: const char *ptr = strchr(const_str, 'a'); as well as char *ptr = strchr(non_const_str, 'a'); thanks to there being two C++ overloads for the function. (I'm guessing that the C11 _Generic thing could be used for this, to create a strchr-like macro that has cases for const and non-const.) -- TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-28 11:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? |
| Message-ID | <th12f4$b2d9$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86661 |
On 28/09/2022 02:26, Kaz Kylheku wrote: > ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.c.] (Please don't set follow-ups that exclude groups that are clearly relevant and part of the active thread - it just breaks up conversations.) > On 2022-09-27, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: >> On 27/09/2022 16:11, rbowman wrote: <snip> >>> I'm not fond of 'const'. We have a lot of legacy code where the >>> programmers used it inappropriately so you wind up casting it away. I >>> think they saw it in one declaration and decided it was always needed. >>> Used correctly it's valuable >> >> Is it not better just to say that you are not fond of incorrect and >> badly written code? If you have code written by people who don't know >> how to use "const" properly, you should not let that stop you using it >> when it is useful. > > const requires a modicum of generic programming to use in a satisfactory > manner in all circumstances. The problem is that functions with > const-qualified pointer arguments accept qualified and unqualified > pointers. > > If they return a pointer into the same object, if they make it > const-qualified, it's inconvenient. If they return unqualified, > an unsafe cast is required inside the function. Yes, being "const consistent" can sometimes be awkward. That does not mean avoiding "const" is a good idea - it just means "const" is not quite as simple as one might like. > > The C++ versions of certain C library headers fix this. You can > have code like this: > > const char *ptr = strchr(const_str, 'a'); > > as well as > > char *ptr = strchr(non_const_str, 'a'); > > thanks to there being two C++ overloads for the function. Yes. > > (I'm guessing that the C11 _Generic thing could be used for this, > to create a strchr-like macro that has cases for const > and non-const.) > Yes, _Generic certainly could handle that.
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| From | Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-28 13:33 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? |
| Message-ID | <87pmffu19g.fsf@bsb.me.uk> |
| In reply to | #86670 |
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes: > On 28/09/2022 02:26, Kaz Kylheku wrote: <cut> >> The C++ versions of certain C library headers fix this. You can >> have code like this: >> const char *ptr = strchr(const_str, 'a'); >> as well as >> char *ptr = strchr(non_const_str, 'a'); >> thanks to there being two C++ overloads for the function. > > Yes. > >> (I'm guessing that the C11 _Generic thing could be used for this, >> to create a strchr-like macro that has cases for const >> and non-const.) > > Yes, _Generic certainly could handle that. And now C23 proposes type-generic versions of strchr etc. -- Ben.
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| From | Manfred <noname@add.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-25 19:31 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? |
| Message-ID | <tgq39g$2pt$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #86519 |
On 9/23/2022 9:50 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote: > In comp.lang.c++ Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> wrote: >> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.c.] >> On 2022-09-21, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote: >>> ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? >>> https://devclass.com/2022/09/20/microsoft-azure-cto-on-c-c/ >>> >>> ??????It???s time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++ and use Rust for >>> those scenarios where a non-GC language is required. >> >> Those scenarios are almost never, though. >> >> The niche is small, and nothing needs replacing in it. > > I wouldn't call embedded programming to be a "small niche". > > (Well, the subset of embedded programming that happens on processors > so small that they can't run Linux, at least.) Non-GC is definitely not for embedded programming only. I have seen a pretty large project for digital imaging workstations fail because of the non deterministic nature of GC.
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| From | Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-26 04:53 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? |
| Message-ID | <20220925214731.135@kylheku.com> |
| In reply to | #86583 |
On 2022-09-25, Manfred <noname@add.invalid> wrote: > Non-GC is definitely not for embedded programming only. > I have seen a pretty large project for digital imaging workstations fail > because of the non deterministic nature of GC. And are you sure that you didn't see a large project fail for various reasons, whereby some people tried to shift the blame to garbage collection? Today someone will pull it off ... in the browser. (How many decades before the web was this?) -- TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
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| From | Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-10-02 12:59 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: ???Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated??? |
| Message-ID | <8635c6j8tp.fsf@linuxsc.com> |
| In reply to | #86583 |
Manfred <noname@add.invalid> writes: > On 9/23/2022 9:50 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote: > >> In comp.lang.c++ Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> wrote: >> >>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.c.] >>> On 2022-09-21, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated >>>> https://devclass.com/2022/09/20/microsoft-azure-cto-on-c-c/ >>>> >>>> It's time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++ and use Rust >>>> for those scenarios where a non-GC language is required. >>> >>> Those scenarios are almost never, though. >>> >>> The niche is small, and nothing needs replacing in it. >> >> I wouldn't call embedded programming to be a "small niche". >> >> (Well, the subset of embedded programming that happens on processors >> so small that they can't run Linux, at least.) > > Non-GC is definitely not for embedded programming only. > I have seen a pretty large project for digital imaging workstations > fail because of the non deterministic nature of GC. Garbage collection is not inherently non-deterministic.
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| From | Opus <ifonly@youknew.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-23 18:32 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tgkn2c$1ldk$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #86469 |
Le 21/09/2022 à 21:04, Lynn McGuire a écrit : > “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” > https://devclass.com/2022/09/20/microsoft-azure-cto-on-c-c/ > > ““It’s time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++ and use Rust for > those scenarios where a non-GC language is required. For the sake of > security and reliability, the industry should declare those languages as > deprecated,” he said on Twitter, expressing a personal opinion rather > than a fresh Microsoft policy.” > > Wow ! Bold. It's not bold. It's just stupid.
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| From | Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-09-26 02:08 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <tgrfk4$3m0g3$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86469 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On 9/21/22 15:04, Lynn McGuire wrote: > “Microsoft Azure CTO Mark Russinovich: C/C++ should be deprecated” > https://devclass.com/2022/09/20/microsoft-azure-cto-on-c-c/ > > ““It’s time to halt starting any new projects in C/C++ and use Rust for > those scenarios where a non-GC language is required. For the sake of > security and reliability, the industry should declare those languages as > deprecated,” he said on Twitter, expressing a personal opinion rather > than a fresh Microsoft policy.” > > Wow ! Bold. > > Lynn > oh goodness me not more rust bullshit -- /blu.mɛin.dʰak/ | shortens to "Hawk" | he/him/his/himself/Mr. bluemanedhawk.github.io I think my Usenet provider stores their passwords in plain text. If i'm acting suspiciously, chances are that that backfired on them.
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