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Re: Editor recommendation

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Don Y wrote:
> On 9/1/2013 11:21 AM, Stefan Reuther wrote:
>>>> Why on earth do you need to display all that in the final layout during
>>>> document preparation?
>>>
>>> Because document preparation involves sorting out its visual
>>> presentation!  If you don't care what the document looks like,
>>> "compose" it in HTML and you'll never need to *know* how it will
>>> appear on some particular browser!
>>
>> Sure I check how it looks like. But not at the same time I type it. Thus
>> I can check whether each Bézier has its accent during editing, in a nice
>> large screen font size. I trust my typesetting system to preserve the é
>> even when the font size is reduced for a footnote.
> 
> You apparently tag *while* you are typing the original source.  So,
> for example:
>     <italic>Bezier<\italic>
> or
>     <Heading>Special Cases<\Heading>,

Sure, when I type a heading, I know *now* that this is going to be a
heading, so I tag it *now* (instead of in a second pass, where I could
overlook it).

>> Sure. But I don't need to see all the subscripts and accents in the
>> formula at the same time as the headlines. To see the subscripts, I can
>> zoom in. To see the headlines, I can zoom out. Then I see an
>> indecipherable blob that looks like a formula. Fine, there's the
>> formula, here's the text that flows around it, done.
> 
> So, how are you *proofing* the result?  *Hoping* you got it right
> when you were typing all that ASCII text *prior* to importing
> it to your WYSIWYG previewer?  *Hoping* you remembered to use
> "open double quote" and "close double quote" to bracket
> “Bézier” instead of straight double quotes ("Bézier") or,
> worse, half-and-half (“Bézier" or "Bézier”)

They look different even in normal font sizes. And to know for sure,
there's a search function to search for things like straight quotes, or
closing-quotes-not-followed-by-a-space.

> Or, do you zoom around the entire document on "high magnification"
> hoping you catch everything one "peep-hole" at a time?

If it need be, sure. Normal-size text can be read at normal
magnification, on page per screen. Formulas with small subscripts need zoom.

>> Again, I trust my typesetting system that if I set something in italic,
>> it will also be in italic when moved to a footnote.
> 
> So, you are doing all your tagging *before* seeing it typeset.
> <emphasis>Oh My!<\emphasis> instead of benefiting from a GUI
> to apply tags as needed.

Yes. (And the problem with usual GUIs is that they can only display
"italic", and cannot distinguish between "loanword", "new term", "name
of a person", "name of a publication", or other reasons why one could
want a word in italic. Semantic tagging during input also allows to make
things like "I don't want this highlighted, but I want it in the index".)

> What's your obsession with "trusting your typesetting system"?
> I trust mine as well!  Difference is, you apparently choose to
> type in all those tags *before* the "input" has been typeset.
> And, you're thrilled that this isn't corrupted as it is rendered
> "typographically".
> 
> Mine isn't either!  I just don't spend time typing "\vfill\eject"
> when I want to insert a page break.  Or, "\line{\hfil Flush right}"
> to cram something against the right margin ("padded left").
> 
> I.e., you can read the *content* of one of my documents "as a
> normal human being" before it is imported.  No concern over
> "Gee, what does '\hrule' mean?"

"Before it is imported". So the difference might be that you write
something, and then import it somewhere else. I prefer directly writing
for the target system.

"Write and import somewhere else" is what I use if someone wants me to
use Word to print C code, or something like that. I write the C code in
Emacs and import it into Word :)

But even when I write something not in the target markup format, I try
to tag it a little. That's one area where XML transformations come in
handy, for example. Or little one-screen Perl scripts.

> If you find something that needs to be corrected while proofing
> the *typeset* rendering of the document, do you correct it
> *in* that WYSIWYG?  Or, do you have to re-open the "source"
> document, locate the corresponding portion that contains the
> text/tag/formatting that you want to alter, tweek that, flush
> it to disk and then "refresh" the WYSIWYG rendering?

Precisely.

And, being used to programming, I find this workflow very natural.

It's not a good workflow for things like party invitation posters. But
for tech manuals I find it optimal.

> How do you add callouts to your illustrations?  To as great an
> extent as is possible, I *don't* include text in "images" that I
> import (hard to do with schematic fragments!)
> 
> E.g., all of my Bezier curve examples are created in Mathematica
> and imported without any text annotating the points, coordinates,
> axis, etc.  Instead, these are pasted on as callouts *after*
> the image has been imported.  This allows me to ensure that
> the designations for each point appear in the same "font" and
> representation that they are referenced as in the body text.
> 
> [One problem has been getting Mathematica to use the same
> "colors" that the publishing program uses!  :< ]

Works fine with LaTeX and TikZ (or xfig).

(But, yes, it needs getting used to. And, admittedly, I don't use many
pictures, and for UML diagrams exported from a modeling tool, or plots
exported from, say, Excel, I don't care for fonts. After all, it's tech
docs, not a glossy magazine.)


  Stefan

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Editor recommendation Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2013-08-28 16:18 -0400
  Re: Editor recommendation David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-08-28 22:46 +0200
    Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-08-28 22:10 +0000
      Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 09:23 -0700
        Re: Editor recommendation Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-08-29 17:15 +0000
          Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 10:38 -0700
            Re: Editor recommendation Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-08-29 17:49 +0000
              Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 12:19 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-29 12:16 -0700
        Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 11:32 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-29 12:15 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 14:04 -0700
            Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 14:25 -0700
              Re: Editor recommendation Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-29 17:05 -0500
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 16:32 -0700
              Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 15:44 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 18:02 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2013-08-30 13:22 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-30 15:00 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2013-08-31 02:17 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-08-31 11:36 +0200
          Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-30 20:30 -0400
            Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-31 00:50 -0700
              Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-08-31 11:54 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-31 10:17 -0400
                Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-31 10:20 -0400
        Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-08-30 13:29 +0000
          Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-30 15:04 -0700
    Re: Editor recommendation George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2013-08-30 13:05 -0400
      Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-08-30 22:55 +0000
  Re: Editor recommendation Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2013-08-28 21:22 -0500
    Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-28 19:54 -0700
      Re: Editor recommendation Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2013-08-28 22:28 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-28 22:38 -0700
    Re: Editor recommendation George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2013-08-30 12:42 -0400
      Re: Editor recommendation Paul Urbanus <urb@urbonix.com> - 2013-09-02 21:20 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation Paul Urbanus <urb@urbonix.com> - 2013-09-04 01:20 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-04 07:22 -0400
  Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-28 19:52 -0700
  Re: Editor recommendation bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-28 22:41 -0500
    Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-08-29 12:19 +0000
      Re: Editor recommendation bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-31 11:54 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-09-03 15:32 +0000
  Re: Editor recommendation Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2013-08-29 09:19 +0300
  Re: Editor recommendation Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2013-08-29 10:01 -0400
    Re: Editor recommendation Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2013-08-29 18:45 +0300
    Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 12:04 -0700
      Re: Editor recommendation Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-29 16:31 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 15:00 -0700
        Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-30 20:50 -0400
      Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-30 20:37 -0400
        Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-30 21:15 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-08-31 12:05 +0200
            Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-31 11:26 -0700
              Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-09-01 20:21 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-01 17:02 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-09-02 19:55 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-02 16:22 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-02 19:39 -0400
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-02 17:51 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-02 18:49 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-31 15:13 -0400
            Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-31 13:45 -0700
  Re: Editor recommendation Habib Bouaziz-Viallet <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2013-08-29 16:31 +0200
    Re: Editor recommendation bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-31 12:03 -0500
      Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-31 13:27 -0400
        Re: Editor recommendation bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-31 13:17 -0500
      Re: Editor recommendation Habib Bouaziz-Viallet <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2013-09-01 19:16 +0200
        Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-01 19:52 -0400
          Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-09-03 14:41 +0000
  Re: Editor recommendation jhallen@TheWorld.com (Joseph H Allen) - 2013-08-29 20:09 +0000
  Re: Editor recommendation stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-09-04 12:10 +0000

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