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Re: Editor recommendation

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Don Y wrote:
> On 8/30/2013 5:30 PM, Randy Yates wrote:
>> However, elisp makes this the most configurable/customizable editor.
>> Ever. I've written entire code generation templates in elisp that allow
>> me to, e.g., create an entire, compilable testbench template (for C) in
>> 30 seconds.
> 
> I see "configurable" as a double-edged sword.  Yeah, you have the
> *ability* to customize it to your task.  But, you now have the
> *responsibility* of customizing it for your task!  (or, hope
> someone else shares your idea of *how* it should be customized,
> etc.)

Only if the author of the "configurable" tool used that as an excuse to
deliver it with no sensible default configuration. I cannot say that of
Emacs.

> E.g., emacs is wonderful in how flexible it *can* be.  But, if
> someone hasn't already spent the time preparing a suitable
> "mode" for you, then that task falls on your shoulders.

So, where's the difference to other editors? If nobody has written an
Eclipse or Visual Studio extension for your task, you're lost, too. The
difference being that with Emacs you don't need a compiler, but just a
lisp-interaction buffer to start with your own extension.

> And, unless you can drag your environment/toolchain around *everywhere*
> you might want to use it, you often end up fighting someone
> else's idea of how *their* instance of the toolchain should be
> configured (*assuming* they actually use it!).  Or, finding
> that the tool isn't available where you are, currently.

Duplicating an Emacs environment is a matter of copying a folder full of
*.el files from your home directory. You don't even need to mess with
DLLs that may need admin permissions, Java runtime versions, etc.

> By way of example, there is no *effective* Limbo mode.  And,
> I'm the only one who is likely to write a mode for *my* IDL.
> 
> How much time do you throw into these sorts of "tool building"
> tasks?  How much time do you expect them to *save* from the
> "real work" you have to do?  How happy are you living with
> someone else's idea of how a "mode" should work?

I spent considerable amount of time adjusting cc-mode's imagination how
C files should look like. Now, 99% of the time it formats a piece of
code other than I think it should, it's because I forgot a parenthesis,
semicolon, or quote, saving me a compile cycle. I spent a day or so to
build an "add an #include directive at the top of this file", either
with filename completion or by deriving it from a class name, using our
project's convention. Almost no compile errors due to forgotten includes
(and if there are still some, they're fixed with a keystroke).

I think that paid out.

> If I embed
> some SQL (or HTML, etc.) *inside* a "C" source file, will you
> be smart enough to recognize this and provide the same level
> of (ahem) "help" that you try to provide for the C source?
> *Or*, for that SQL if it had been freestanding in a ".SQL"
> file??

There is a "multiple major modes" extension, intended for files with
mixed HTML, JavaScript and CSS. Probably it can also work with mixed C
and SQL, I never tried.

> Give me a mechanism to move characters around on a screen.  I
> don't need you to tell me that "if" (in this context) is a
> keyword -- if I don't know that, your help is too little, too
> late!  :>

Can you spot the syntax error in
   /* read key from ini file, return default if key isn't in file */
   const char* getConfigValue(const char* key, const char* default);
? Took me an afternoon to figure out (compiler messages were NOT
helpful), and convince me of the advantages of syntax coloring.

> A compiler can tell me if I forgot to close a string
> six lines back (i.e., it is the compiler's responsibility to
> be language cop -- not the text editor!)  Implement fast/flexible
> searches.  Support non-ASCII character encodings.  etc.
> 
> If I want to adopt a particular style (e.g., how I present some
> embedded SQL statements within Limbo source so that they are easily
> recognizable as such) for expressing my algorithms, let me do that
> without trying to coerce it to comply with *your* idea of what
> I might be doing (or, providing NO help at all).
> 
> Then, get out of my way.

Emacs' get-out-of-my-way command is M-x fundamental-mode.


  Stefan

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Editor recommendation Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2013-08-28 16:18 -0400
  Re: Editor recommendation David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-08-28 22:46 +0200
    Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-08-28 22:10 +0000
      Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 09:23 -0700
        Re: Editor recommendation Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-08-29 17:15 +0000
          Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 10:38 -0700
            Re: Editor recommendation Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-08-29 17:49 +0000
              Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 12:19 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-29 12:16 -0700
        Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 11:32 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-29 12:15 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 14:04 -0700
            Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 14:25 -0700
              Re: Editor recommendation Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-29 17:05 -0500
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 16:32 -0700
              Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 15:44 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 18:02 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2013-08-30 13:22 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-30 15:00 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2013-08-31 02:17 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-08-31 11:36 +0200
          Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-30 20:30 -0400
            Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-31 00:50 -0700
              Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-08-31 11:54 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-31 10:17 -0400
                Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-31 10:20 -0400
        Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-08-30 13:29 +0000
          Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-30 15:04 -0700
    Re: Editor recommendation George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2013-08-30 13:05 -0400
      Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-08-30 22:55 +0000
  Re: Editor recommendation Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2013-08-28 21:22 -0500
    Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-28 19:54 -0700
      Re: Editor recommendation Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2013-08-28 22:28 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-28 22:38 -0700
    Re: Editor recommendation George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2013-08-30 12:42 -0400
      Re: Editor recommendation Paul Urbanus <urb@urbonix.com> - 2013-09-02 21:20 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation Paul Urbanus <urb@urbonix.com> - 2013-09-04 01:20 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-04 07:22 -0400
  Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-28 19:52 -0700
  Re: Editor recommendation bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-28 22:41 -0500
    Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-08-29 12:19 +0000
      Re: Editor recommendation bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-31 11:54 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-09-03 15:32 +0000
  Re: Editor recommendation Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2013-08-29 09:19 +0300
  Re: Editor recommendation Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2013-08-29 10:01 -0400
    Re: Editor recommendation Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2013-08-29 18:45 +0300
    Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 12:04 -0700
      Re: Editor recommendation Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-29 16:31 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 15:00 -0700
        Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-30 20:50 -0400
      Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-30 20:37 -0400
        Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-30 21:15 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-08-31 12:05 +0200
            Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-31 11:26 -0700
              Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-09-01 20:21 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-01 17:02 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-09-02 19:55 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-02 16:22 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-02 19:39 -0400
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-02 17:51 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-02 18:49 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-31 15:13 -0400
            Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-31 13:45 -0700
  Re: Editor recommendation Habib Bouaziz-Viallet <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2013-08-29 16:31 +0200
    Re: Editor recommendation bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-31 12:03 -0500
      Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-31 13:27 -0400
        Re: Editor recommendation bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-31 13:17 -0500
      Re: Editor recommendation Habib Bouaziz-Viallet <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2013-09-01 19:16 +0200
        Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-01 19:52 -0400
          Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-09-03 14:41 +0000
  Re: Editor recommendation jhallen@TheWorld.com (Joseph H Allen) - 2013-08-29 20:09 +0000
  Re: Editor recommendation stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-09-04 12:10 +0000

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