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Re: Editor recommendation

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Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> writes:

> Don Y wrote:
>> On 8/30/2013 5:30 PM, Randy Yates wrote:
>>> However, elisp makes this the most configurable/customizable editor.
>>> Ever. I've written entire code generation templates in elisp that allow
>>> me to, e.g., create an entire, compilable testbench template (for C) in
>>> 30 seconds.
>> 
>> I see "configurable" as a double-edged sword.  Yeah, you have the
>> *ability* to customize it to your task.  But, you now have the
>> *responsibility* of customizing it for your task!  (or, hope
>> someone else shares your idea of *how* it should be customized,
>> etc.)
>
> Only if the author of the "configurable" tool used that as an excuse to
> deliver it with no sensible default configuration. I cannot say that of
> Emacs.
>
>> E.g., emacs is wonderful in how flexible it *can* be.  But, if
>> someone hasn't already spent the time preparing a suitable
>> "mode" for you, then that task falls on your shoulders.
>
> So, where's the difference to other editors? If nobody has written an
> Eclipse or Visual Studio extension for your task, you're lost, too. The
> difference being that with Emacs you don't need a compiler, but just a
> lisp-interaction buffer to start with your own extension.
>
>> And, unless you can drag your environment/toolchain around *everywhere*
>> you might want to use it, you often end up fighting someone
>> else's idea of how *their* instance of the toolchain should be
>> configured (*assuming* they actually use it!).  Or, finding
>> that the tool isn't available where you are, currently.
>
> Duplicating an Emacs environment is a matter of copying a folder full of
> *.el files from your home directory. You don't even need to mess with
> DLLs that may need admin permissions, Java runtime versions, etc.
>
>> By way of example, there is no *effective* Limbo mode.  And,
>> I'm the only one who is likely to write a mode for *my* IDL.
>> 
>> How much time do you throw into these sorts of "tool building"
>> tasks?  How much time do you expect them to *save* from the
>> "real work" you have to do?  How happy are you living with
>> someone else's idea of how a "mode" should work?
>
> I spent considerable amount of time adjusting cc-mode's imagination how
> C files should look like. Now, 99% of the time it formats a piece of
> code other than I think it should, it's because I forgot a parenthesis,
> semicolon, or quote, saving me a compile cycle. I spent a day or so to
> build an "add an #include directive at the top of this file", either
> with filename completion or by deriving it from a class name, using our
> project's convention. Almost no compile errors due to forgotten includes
> (and if there are still some, they're fixed with a keystroke).
>
> I think that paid out.
>
>> If I embed
>> some SQL (or HTML, etc.) *inside* a "C" source file, will you
>> be smart enough to recognize this and provide the same level
>> of (ahem) "help" that you try to provide for the C source?
>> *Or*, for that SQL if it had been freestanding in a ".SQL"
>> file??
>
> There is a "multiple major modes" extension, intended for files with
> mixed HTML, JavaScript and CSS. Probably it can also work with mixed C
> and SQL, I never tried.
>
>> Give me a mechanism to move characters around on a screen.  I
>> don't need you to tell me that "if" (in this context) is a
>> keyword -- if I don't know that, your help is too little, too
>> late!  :>
>
> Can you spot the syntax error in
>    /* read key from ini file, return default if key isn't in file */
>    const char* getConfigValue(const char* key, const char* default);
> ? Took me an afternoon to figure out (compiler messages were NOT
> helpful), and convince me of the advantages of syntax coloring.
>
>> A compiler can tell me if I forgot to close a string
>> six lines back (i.e., it is the compiler's responsibility to
>> be language cop -- not the text editor!)  Implement fast/flexible
>> searches.  Support non-ASCII character encodings.  etc.
>> 
>> If I want to adopt a particular style (e.g., how I present some
>> embedded SQL statements within Limbo source so that they are easily
>> recognizable as such) for expressing my algorithms, let me do that
>> without trying to coerce it to comply with *your* idea of what
>> I might be doing (or, providing NO help at all).
>> 
>> Then, get out of my way.
>
> Emacs' get-out-of-my-way command is M-x fundamental-mode.
>
>
>   Stefan

I'm with you, Stefan. How can an editor that gives you extra
configurability ever be considered a bad thing? If you don't need that
extra configurability, or don't want to spend the time, then (duh!)
don't.
-- 
Randy Yates
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

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Editor recommendation Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2013-08-28 16:18 -0400
  Re: Editor recommendation David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-08-28 22:46 +0200
    Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-08-28 22:10 +0000
      Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 09:23 -0700
        Re: Editor recommendation Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-08-29 17:15 +0000
          Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 10:38 -0700
            Re: Editor recommendation Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-08-29 17:49 +0000
              Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 12:19 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-29 12:16 -0700
        Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 11:32 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-29 12:15 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 14:04 -0700
            Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 14:25 -0700
              Re: Editor recommendation Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-29 17:05 -0500
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 16:32 -0700
              Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 15:44 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 18:02 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2013-08-30 13:22 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-30 15:00 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2013-08-31 02:17 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-08-31 11:36 +0200
          Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-30 20:30 -0400
            Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-31 00:50 -0700
              Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-08-31 11:54 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-31 10:17 -0400
                Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-31 10:20 -0400
        Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-08-30 13:29 +0000
          Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-30 15:04 -0700
    Re: Editor recommendation George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2013-08-30 13:05 -0400
      Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-08-30 22:55 +0000
  Re: Editor recommendation Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2013-08-28 21:22 -0500
    Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-28 19:54 -0700
      Re: Editor recommendation Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2013-08-28 22:28 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-28 22:38 -0700
    Re: Editor recommendation George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2013-08-30 12:42 -0400
      Re: Editor recommendation Paul Urbanus <urb@urbonix.com> - 2013-09-02 21:20 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation Paul Urbanus <urb@urbonix.com> - 2013-09-04 01:20 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-04 07:22 -0400
  Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-28 19:52 -0700
  Re: Editor recommendation bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-28 22:41 -0500
    Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-08-29 12:19 +0000
      Re: Editor recommendation bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-31 11:54 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-09-03 15:32 +0000
  Re: Editor recommendation Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2013-08-29 09:19 +0300
  Re: Editor recommendation Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2013-08-29 10:01 -0400
    Re: Editor recommendation Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2013-08-29 18:45 +0300
    Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 12:04 -0700
      Re: Editor recommendation Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-29 16:31 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 15:00 -0700
        Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-30 20:50 -0400
      Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-30 20:37 -0400
        Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-30 21:15 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-08-31 12:05 +0200
            Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-31 11:26 -0700
              Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-09-01 20:21 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-01 17:02 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-09-02 19:55 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-02 16:22 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-02 19:39 -0400
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-02 17:51 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-02 18:49 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-31 15:13 -0400
            Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-31 13:45 -0700
  Re: Editor recommendation Habib Bouaziz-Viallet <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2013-08-29 16:31 +0200
    Re: Editor recommendation bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-31 12:03 -0500
      Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-31 13:27 -0400
        Re: Editor recommendation bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-31 13:17 -0500
      Re: Editor recommendation Habib Bouaziz-Viallet <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2013-09-01 19:16 +0200
        Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-01 19:52 -0400
          Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-09-03 14:41 +0000
  Re: Editor recommendation jhallen@TheWorld.com (Joseph H Allen) - 2013-08-29 20:09 +0000
  Re: Editor recommendation stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-09-04 12:10 +0000

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