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Groups > alt.comp.os.windows-11 > #33665 > unrolled thread
| Started by | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-08-15 09:19 -0400 |
| Last post | 2026-08-16 18:06 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 49 — 12 participants |
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My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-08-15 09:19 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-08-15 09:28 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-08-15 12:58 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> - 2026-08-15 14:03 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-08-15 17:19 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-15 16:59 -0500
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-08-16 03:09 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-16 00:06 +0000
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-08-15 20:27 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-16 11:15 +0200
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-08-16 12:42 +0000
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-16 22:29 +0000
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-08-17 11:47 +0000
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-18 00:01 +0000
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-08-18 00:22 +0000
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-18 02:27 +0000
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-08-18 02:42 +0000
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-18 02:55 +0000
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-08-18 03:13 +0000
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-18 07:14 +0000
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-08-18 17:52 +0000
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-19 07:08 +0000
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-19 07:18 +0000
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-08-17 23:24 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-08-17 23:22 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-08-18 03:50 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-18 23:13 +0000
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-08-18 17:53 +0000
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-08-18 14:07 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-08-18 18:55 +0000
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-08-16 04:02 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-08-16 08:18 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-08-16 18:12 -0700
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-08-16 22:00 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-08-16 20:38 -0700
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-08-16 21:18 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-08-16 18:23 -0700
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-08-16 22:58 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-08-16 21:27 -0700
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-08-15 21:14 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-08-16 04:33 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-08-16 16:57 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-08-16 18:14 -0700
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-08-17 12:11 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-08-17 20:53 -0700
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-08-15 14:47 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-08-15 21:16 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-08-16 16:56 -0400
Re: My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-08-16 18:06 -0700
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-15 09:19 -0400 |
| Subject | My biggest issue with Apple also affects PC manufacturers |
| Message-ID | <6a806759$0$20$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> |
Integrated SSDs, the worst idea ever. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLMsVX1s77k> If Apple allowed for the storage to be upgraded, we'd all happily buy base model MacBook Airs. -- CrudeSausage M4 MacBook Air Matthew 7:15 John 14:6
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| From | "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-15 09:28 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <115pph1$3dnu9$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33665 |
On 8/15/2026 9:19 AM, CrudeSausage wrote: > Integrated SSDs, the worst idea ever. <https://www.youtube.com/watch? > v=MLMsVX1s77k> If Apple allowed for the storage to be upgraded, we'd all > happily buy base model MacBook Airs. I think you're right, integrating storage into some unified central place in the hardware simply makes it impossible to retrieve data and repair the device. -- Joel W. Crump Zyprexa - It's not just for schizophrenics, anymore!
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| From | Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-15 12:58 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <115q5rr$3i48h$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33665 |
On 8/15/26 9:19 AM, CrudeSausage wrote: > Integrated SSDs, the worst idea ever. <https://www.youtube.com/watch? > v=MLMsVX1s77k> If Apple allowed for the storage to be upgraded, we'd all > happily buy base model MacBook Airs. > As numerous YouTube videos have shown you can upgrade a MacBook SSD. Not an easy plugin but not all that difficult either. 2025 M4 256m GB upgraded to 2 TB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eajZtftXaGE Just search YouTube for more.
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| From | "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-15 14:03 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <115q9le$3jej3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33668 |
On 8/15/26 12:58 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 8/15/26 9:19 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>> Integrated SSDs, the worst idea ever. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?
>> v=MLMsVX1s77k> If Apple allowed for the storage to be upgraded, we'd all
>> happily buy base model MacBook Airs.
>>
> As numerous YouTube videos have shown you can upgrade a MacBook SSD. Not
> an easy plugin but not all that difficult either.
>
> 2025 M4 256m GB upgraded to 2 TB
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eajZtftXaGE
>
> Just search YouTube for more.
Yep, but he sure had the tools and know how. Not sure the everyday Joe could do this.
--
Mint 22.3, Thunderbird 153.0esr, Firefox 153.0.4
Alan K.
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| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-15 17:19 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <115ql49$3nbpn$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33669 |
On Sat, 8/15/2026 2:03 PM, Alan K. wrote: > On 8/15/26 12:58 PM, Tom Elam wrote: >> On 8/15/26 9:19 AM, CrudeSausage wrote: >>> Integrated SSDs, the worst idea ever. <https://www.youtube.com/watch? >>> v=MLMsVX1s77k> If Apple allowed for the storage to be upgraded, we'd all >>> happily buy base model MacBook Airs. >>> >> As numerous YouTube videos have shown you can upgrade a MacBook SSD. Not >> an easy plugin but not all that difficult either. >> >> 2025 M4 256m GB upgraded to 2 TB >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eajZtftXaGE >> >> Just search YouTube for more. > Yep, but he sure had the tools and know how. Not sure the everyday Joe could do this. > You need the know-how, when working with badly designed PCBs. Nobody is going to make a "properly designed PCB" for you. After all, they lobbied to make the product un-upgradable in the first place. Why would they give a shit about repairability criteria ? Paul
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| From | chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-15 16:59 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <b9o18lp4eukef51o41vq8udno89p57t4lm@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #33674 |
Paul wrote: >Nobody is going to make a "properly designed PCB" for you. I wouldn't say that... -- "If Freedom is so important to people in COLA, why not move to a more Free system?" - some thing, attacking the GPL and its supporters
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| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-16 03:09 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <115rnme$4th$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33676 |
On Sat, 8/15/2026 5:59 PM, chrisv wrote: > Paul wrote: > >> Nobody is going to make a "properly designed PCB" for you. > > I wouldn't say that... > People who work in an industry, can look at a thing, and tell you what's wrong with it. My layout people are excellent at this. A few of them, managed to memorize a five inch thick book of rules for PCB design, and they can quote you chapter and verse on "preferred" ways to do things. They do this, because that's their job and they do that every day. The staff at the factory, they inspect the design package you send them, and they will provide copious feedback about things that must change. If I have my good layout person, the staff at the factory have nothing to complain about. He speaks their language. If you're making schlock, then it does not matter what you do. Factory people will still complain, if they're throwing away 3% of the items because "they don't work". Your design quality must be good enough, to not shoot yourself in the foot and rob your company of its profit margin. You can screw the customer with your nasty designs, as long as you're not screwing yourself. The product has to be able to leave the factory, then it doesn't matter what happens after that, at a schlock company. And yes, I've seen commercial items that were unacceptable. We expect the $5 transistor radios of yesteryear, to be full of that sort of stuff (generally, bad soldering jobs, dry joints and blobs). But when I bought a video card for $1000, I should not be seeing bodges that not even a hobbyist would try, on my $1000 item. Any hobbyist who looked at that layout, they could immediately identify that as a "WTF is THAT". Even a civilian would notice "hmmm, this thing is not the same as any of the other things on this board". Fortunately, that company is out of business, I don't know why... "Bad luck", I would guess. If you use conservative design rules, you get better results. The factory likes you. The customer likes you. Paul
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-16 00:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <115quuf$3pn7u$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33674 |
On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 17:19:06 -0400, Paul wrote: > You need the know-how, when working with badly designed PCBs. You’re not suggesting that anything Apple does could *possibly* be “badly designed”, are you ... ? Oh, the horror ...
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| From | "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-15 20:27 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <115r057$3qh26$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33680 |
On 8/15/2026 8:06 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 17:19:06 -0400, Paul wrote: > >> You need the know-how, when working with badly designed PCBs. > > You’re not suggesting that anything Apple does could *possibly* be > “badly designed”, are you ... ? > > Oh, the horror ... I wouldn't buy anything they made. It's overpriced to begin with, they're selling ancient tech as if it's brand new, it's laughable. People are that cozy with the macOS ecosystem? For what? Linux gives you every bit as much of the Unix platform, without costing anything or requiring proprietary hardware. Only a true-blue fan could justify the ridiculous cost and sacrifices made. -- Joel W. Crump Zyprexa - It's not just for schizophrenics, anymore!
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| From | "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-16 11:15 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <neddefFfbjpU8@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #33681 |
On 2026-08-16 02:27, Joel W. Crump wrote:
> On 8/15/2026 8:06 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 17:19:06 -0400, Paul wrote:
>>
>>> You need the know-how, when working with badly designed PCBs.
>>
>> You’re not suggesting that anything Apple does could *possibly* be
>> “badly designed”, are you ... ?
>>
>> Oh, the horror ...
>
>
> I wouldn't buy anything they made. It's overpriced to begin with,
> they're selling ancient tech as if it's brand new, it's laughable.
> People are that cozy with the macOS ecosystem? For what? Linux gives
> you every bit as much of the Unix platform, without costing anything or
> requiring proprietary hardware. Only a true-blue fan could justify the
> ridiculous cost and sacrifices made.
>
You don't have to be a computer engineer to use them.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-16 12:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <115sb8f$5vvr$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33681 |
Joel W. Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: > On 8/15/2026 8:06 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 17:19:06 -0400, Paul wrote: >> >>> You need the know-how, when working with badly designed PCBs. >> >> You’re not suggesting that anything Apple does could *possibly* be >> “badly designed”, are you ... ? >> >> Oh, the horror ... > > > I wouldn't buy anything they made. It's overpriced to begin with, > they're selling ancient tech as if it's brand new, it's laughable. > People are that cozy with the macOS ecosystem? For what? Linux gives > you every bit as much of the Unix platform, without costing anything or > requiring proprietary hardware. Only a true-blue fan could justify the > ridiculous cost and sacrifices made. I migrated to macOS because I was fed up of juggling both windows and linux systems. With a mac I get the benefits of each in one place. I can create ppts and run my scientific scripts at the same time wherever I may be. I still run windows at home for some gaming and for familiarity for my wife as she's only ever used windows and is a bit of a technophobe.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-16 22:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <115tdjd$hgk7$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33690 |
On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 12:42:55 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > I migrated to macOS because I was fed up of juggling both windows > and linux systems. Both Apple and Microsoft officially support hanging a Linux kernel as a bag on the side of their respective proprietary OSes. For Microsoft this is officially mandatory for AI development, and in general it is pretty much mandatory for any kind of software development on Windows nowadays. Expect the Apple platform to go the same way, sooner or later. > With a mac I get the benefits of each in one place. I can create > ppts and run my scientific scripts at the same time wherever I may be. You found Linux to be a pain, yet you happily put up with Microsoft’s walled garden??
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-17 11:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <115usc9$v4og$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33695 |
Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 12:42:55 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > >> I migrated to macOS because I was fed up of juggling both windows >> and linux systems. > > Both Apple and Microsoft officially support hanging a Linux kernel as > a bag on the side of their respective proprietary OSes. For Microsoft > this is officially mandatory for AI development, and in general it is > pretty much mandatory for any kind of software development on Windows > nowadays. > > Expect the Apple platform to go the same way, sooner or later. It's not necessary on macOS as it's natively unix. The vast majority of OSS tools work OOTB. I do run a linux VM but mostly it's just nostalgia. >> With a mac I get the benefits of each in one place. I can create >> ppts and run my scientific scripts at the same time wherever I may be. > > You found Linux to be a pain, yet you happily put up with Microsoft’s > walled garden?? I didn't say I found linux to be a pain. Pretty much any professional work across most industries requires Microsoft or Adobe. Linux can't run those and the alternatives just aren't compatible enough. I struggled for years with OpenOffice.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-18 00:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11607ch$1d7dv$10@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33710 |
On Mon, 17 Aug 2026 11:47:21 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> >> Both Apple and Microsoft officially support hanging a Linux kernel >> as a bag on the side of their respective proprietary OSes. For >> Microsoft this is officially mandatory for AI development, and in >> general it is pretty much mandatory for any kind of software >> development on Windows nowadays. >> >> Expect the Apple platform to go the same way, sooner or later. > > It's not necessary on macOS as it's natively unix. And yet Apple found it necessary to put Linux on macOS, just to get access to all that “UNIX” software that won’t actually run on its “UNIX”? >> You found Linux to be a pain, yet you happily put up with >> Microsoft’s walled garden?? > > I didn't say I found linux to be a pain. Pretty much any > professional work across most industries requires Microsoft or > Adobe. Actually, no. For example, the Visual Effects Society (the ones who do VFX work in movies/tv/etc) did a survey of its members a few years ago, and found that a majority of them were using Linux on their desktops (or rather, workstations). Not only that, but they expected the proportion of Linux usage to grow over time. Clearly, that is one major content-creation industry that has little or no time for Adobe products. Also, as I mentioned before, note that AI development work nowadays is happening predominantly or even exclusively on Linux. > I struggled for years with OpenOffice. Why? <https://www.libreoffice.org/libreoffice-vs-openoffice/>
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| From | Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-18 00:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <6a83a5ce$0$24$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> |
| In reply to | #33733 |
On Aug 17, 2026 at 5:01:22 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote <11607ch$1d7dv$10@dont-email.me>: > On Mon, 17 Aug 2026 11:47:21 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > >> Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>> >>> Both Apple and Microsoft officially support hanging a Linux kernel >>> as a bag on the side of their respective proprietary OSes. For >>> Microsoft this is officially mandatory for AI development, and in >>> general it is pretty much mandatory for any kind of software >>> development on Windows nowadays. >>> >>> Expect the Apple platform to go the same way, sooner or later. >> >> It's not necessary on macOS as it's natively unix. > > And yet Apple found it necessary to put Linux on macOS, No. They did not. It is hardly common on macOS. The OS runs on Darwin. You can layer Linux above that if you want. But say you are right and Apple somehow moved to using Linux as a necessary part. So? That is what is great about open source -- anyone can use it. If Apple did this it would not be an issue for Apple or for Linux. It would be a win for both. Not sure what you are trying to get at with this. > just to get > access to all that “UNIX” software that won’t actually run on its > “UNIX”? Choice is good. <shrug>. With macOS being able to run Linux software you get more choice. How is this a bad thing? I have a hard time understanding why Linux advocates would see choice as bad. ... -- It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at peace with you.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-18 02:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1160ftm$1g1j0$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33734 |
On 18 Aug 2026 00:22:38 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote: > On Aug 17, 2026 at 5:01:22 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote > <11607ch$1d7dv$10@dont-email.me>: > >> On Mon, 17 Aug 2026 11:47:21 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: >> >>> It's not necessary on macOS as it's natively unix. >> >> And yet Apple found it necessary to put Linux on macOS, > > No. They did not. You don’t know that Apple have put their imprimatur on an official way to run a full-fat Linux kernel under macOS? > It is hardly common on macOS. The OS runs on Darwin. You can > layer Linux above that if you want. How about a bag on the side? That’s how Apple have done it. Seems the “Darwin” kernel (or is that “XNU”, as in “XNU’s Not UNIX”? Hard to keep track of whether this Apple “UNIX” is actually still claiming to be “UNIX” these days) isn’t good enough to actually emulate a proper UNIX-style OS like Linux. But don’t feel bad: Microsoft’s NT kernel turned out to be deficient in the same way, too. > But say you are right and Apple somehow moved to using Linux as a > necessary part. So? That is what is great about open source -- > anyone can use it. Anyone can take from it. You want people to celebrate you for doing that? Giving something back is a different matter altogether.
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| From | Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-18 02:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <6a83c69e$0$25$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> |
| In reply to | #33737 |
On Aug 17, 2026 at 7:27:03 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote <1160ftm$1g1j0$2@dont-email.me>: > On 18 Aug 2026 00:22:38 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote: > >> On Aug 17, 2026 at 5:01:22 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote >> <11607ch$1d7dv$10@dont-email.me>: >> >>> On Mon, 17 Aug 2026 11:47:21 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: >>> >>>> It's not necessary on macOS as it's natively unix. >>> >>> And yet Apple found it necessary to put Linux on macOS, >> >> No. They did not. > > You don’t know that Apple have put their imprimatur on an official way > to run a full-fat Linux kernel under macOS? It is not necessary for macOS. It runs on Darwin. > >> It is hardly common on macOS. The OS runs on Darwin. You can >> layer Linux above that if you want. > > How about a bag on the side? That’s how Apple have done it. Seems the > “Darwin” kernel (or is that “XNU”, as in “XNU’s Not UNIX”? Hard to > keep track of whether this Apple “UNIX” is actually still claiming to > be “UNIX” these days) isn’t good enough to actually emulate a proper > UNIX-style OS like Linux. I do not share your concerns / confusion. > But don’t feel bad: Microsoft’s NT kernel turned out to be deficient > in the same way, too. Again, not sure why you think using Linux is a deficiency. Seems like a good thing to me. >> But say you are right and Apple somehow moved to using Linux as a >> necessary part. So? That is what is great about open source -- >> anyone can use it. > > Anyone can take from it. You want people to celebrate you for doing > that? I think open source is a good thing. > > Giving something back is a different matter altogether. Apple gives plenty back, but part of the open source model is you do not have to. What do you give back? -- It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at peace with you.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-18 02:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1160hjo$1g1j0$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33738 |
On 18 Aug 2026 02:42:39 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote: > On Aug 17, 2026 at 7:27:03 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote > <1160ftm$1g1j0$2@dont-email.me>: > >> You don’t know that Apple have put their imprimatur on an official >> way to run a full-fat Linux kernel under macOS? > > It is not necessary for macOS. It runs on Darwin. The README says “macOS 26”, not “Darwin” <https://github.com/apple/container>. I don’t think *anything* runs on “Darwin” per se: it seems to be just a corporate vanity project that only exists so Apple can say it contributes something back to “Open Source>". > What do you give back? <https://gitlab.com/ldo/> So ... what do *you* give back?
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| From | Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-18 03:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <6a83cdef$0$19$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> |
| In reply to | #33739 |
On Aug 17, 2026 at 7:55:52 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote <1160hjo$1g1j0$6@dont-email.me>: > On 18 Aug 2026 02:42:39 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote: > >> On Aug 17, 2026 at 7:27:03 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote >> <1160ftm$1g1j0$2@dont-email.me>: >> >>> You don’t know that Apple have put their imprimatur on an official >>> way to run a full-fat Linux kernel under macOS? >> >> It is not necessary for macOS. It runs on Darwin. > > The README says “macOS 26”, not “Darwin” The OS as a whole is macOS. The kernel is Darwin. It runs on the OS, not just the kernel. > <https://github.com/apple/container>. I don’t think *anything* runs on > “Darwin” per se: it seems to be just a corporate vanity project that > only exists so Apple can say it contributes something back to “Open > Source>". macOS runs on Darwin. > >> What do you give back? > > <https://gitlab.com/ldo/> Cool. Would have to dig to get anything of much value for me there, but it is not for me (obviously). Awesome that you do that. > > So ... what do *you* give back? I spread Linux and open source tools to people (got someone to try LibreOffice -- on macOS -- just the other day). While it has been a while I have also put in a fair number of bug reports into different projects, including KDE and LibreOffice. But most people do not. And that is fine. The client I helped the other day likely never will. That is completely OK with me. OK for Apple to use it, too... but happy they DO give back to the open source community. -- It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at peace with you.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-18 07:14 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11610pg$1k9st$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33740 |
On 18 Aug 2026 03:13:51 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote: > On Aug 17, 2026 at 7:55:52 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote > <1160hjo$1g1j0$6@dont-email.me>: > >> On 18 Aug 2026 02:42:39 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote: >> >>> On Aug 17, 2026 at 7:27:03 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote >>> <1160ftm$1g1j0$2@dont-email.me>: >>> >>>> You don’t know that Apple have put their imprimatur on an >>>> official way to run a full-fat Linux kernel under macOS? >>> >>> It is not necessary for macOS. It runs on Darwin. >> >> The README says “macOS 26”, not “Darwin” > > The OS as a whole is macOS. The kernel is Darwin. It runs on the OS, > not just the kernel. But you said macOS itself was not necessary for this Container technology from Apple. Apple says different. Whom should I believe? A powerful, soulless, ruthless, profit-seeking corporation with an uncanny ability to attract loyalty from clueless fans, or ... ? >> <https://github.com/apple/container>. I don’t think *anything* runs >> on “Darwin” per se: it seems to be just a corporate vanity project >> that only exists so Apple can say it contributes something back to >> “Open Source>". > > macOS runs on Darwin. But nothing else seems to, is my point.
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