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OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry'

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  OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2025-02-27 18:38 +0000
    Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2025-02-27 18:50 +0000
      Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2025-02-28 23:50 +0000
    Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> - 2025-02-27 13:51 -0500
      Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' Jack <noreply@mandrill.com> - 2025-02-27 18:54 +0000
        Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2025-02-27 19:04 +0000
          Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' Jim H <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-02-28 18:22 +0000
            Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2025-02-28 20:04 +0000
              Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2025-02-28 23:58 +0000
                Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2025-03-01 08:40 +0000
                  Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2025-03-02 11:15 +0000
                Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-01 16:53 +0000
                  Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2025-03-01 18:21 +0000
                    Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-01 18:58 +0000
                  Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2025-03-02 11:49 +0000
                    Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-02 13:33 +0000
                      Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2025-03-02 20:51 +0000
              Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' Jim H <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-01 17:28 +0000
    Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' wasbit <wasbit@nowhere.com> - 2025-02-28 09:29 +0000
    Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2025-02-28 16:19 +0000
      Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2025-03-01 00:00 +0000
        Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2025-03-01 12:30 +0000
          Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2025-03-02 11:24 +0000
            Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2025-03-02 11:51 +0000
              Re: OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry' John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2025-03-02 20:32 +0000

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#182607 — OT but amusing; A Tale of Curry'

This is written in homage to Jonathan Swift; USA people might think of 
Mark Twain. Note, however, that every word is true.

I've bought lots of computer gear from Curry's, so I have previous 
experience with them, and have often wished to publish an account.
This time I bought a fridge; but ended up entangled in the usual 
bureaucratic mess. So here's my story of a should-be-simple procedure 
that got mangled in the wheels.

I bought a fridge; paid full cash, including £15 to have it delivered on 
a nominated date between 1 pm and 4-59pm (! yes, I know!). The 
deliverers turned up at 11-30 am. Luckily I was in. They installed it 
and took the old one away.

I went online to get my £15 back. I talked first of all to a Chat Bot; 
purely automated, no human there at all; and the damn thing kept 
referring me to lots of lists to choose from, but none of them covered 
the situation I had encountered. Eventually the discussion rolled back 
to the door I came in.
So then I phoned the number on their website, not the store itself (no 
number shown for that), a call-centre; that too bounced me around the 
houses, but eventually I got a human with a very heavily 
eastern-accented tongue; and he said I had to go to the store.
I went to the store, explained the simple tale to the reception girl, 
and she buried herself in her computer for almost a quarter of an hour, 
after I'd handed her the purchase papers. Eventually she gave me the 
following story.
She needed her boss' authorisation for the refund, and he wasn't around, 
so she'd have to email him. Only then could I be refunded. In the 
meantime I had to go away, await a phone call saying it was ok, come 
back again. I asked for something in writing (or an email at least) that 
I could show when I came back. She said "No need. All the managers would 
be aware of it". I asked who the managers were, and they're the 
assistants who wander around the shelves.
So then, I'll have to go back, pick an assistant, and see what happens. 
Here's hoping! But I'm not too confident that I'll be £15 better off 
after one more visit.

To be continued.


Ed

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#182609

Ed Cryer wrote:
> This is written in homage to Jonathan Swift; USA people might think of 
> Mark Twain. Note, however, that every word is true.
> 
> I've bought lots of computer gear from Curry's,

Moral: don't buy from Curry's!

But I suspect their performance is typical.


-- 
Graham J

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#182646

On Thu, 27 Feb 2025 18:50:44 +0000, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk>
wrote:

>Ed Cryer wrote:
>> This is written in homage to Jonathan Swift; USA people might think of 
>> Mark Twain. Note, however, that every word is true.
>> 
>> I've bought lots of computer gear from Curry's,
>
>Moral: don't buy from Curry's!
>
>But I suspect their performance is typical.

 It's far, far worse if you buy something and don't have a mobile
telephone number for them. Their system just is not set up to allow
that field to be blank. 

 No, they wouldn't accept eleven zeros and I didn't want to make up
one in case it turned out to be valid. With my luck a made-up number
would be the official 'phone of the P.M. or a chief cop or someone
important. 

 More and more, not having a mobile number is constricting my access
to Life, the Universe and Everything and I fucking hate it. 

                                                                J. 

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#182610

On 2/27/25 01:38 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
> This is written in homage to Jonathan Swift; USA people might think of Mark Twain. Note, 
> however, that every word is true.
> 
> I've bought lots of computer gear from Curry's, so I have previous experience with them, 
> and have often wished to publish an account.
> This time I bought a fridge; but ended up entangled in the usual bureaucratic mess. So 
> here's my story of a should-be-simple procedure that got mangled in the wheels.
> 
> I bought a fridge; paid full cash, including £15 to have it delivered on a nominated date 
> between 1 pm and 4-59pm (! yes, I know!). The deliverers turned up at 11-30 am. Luckily I 
> was in. They installed it and took the old one away.
> 
> I went online to get my £15 back. I talked first of all to a Chat Bot; purely automated, 
> no human there at all; and the damn thing kept referring me to lots of lists to choose 
> from, but none of them covered the situation I had encountered. Eventually the discussion 
> rolled back to the door I came in.
> So then I phoned the number on their website, not the store itself (no number shown for 
> that), a call-centre; that too bounced me around the houses, but eventually I got a human 
> with a very heavily eastern-accented tongue; and he said I had to go to the store.
> I went to the store, explained the simple tale to the reception girl, and she buried 
> herself in her computer for almost a quarter of an hour, after I'd handed her the purchase 
> papers. Eventually she gave me the following story.
> She needed her boss' authorisation for the refund, and he wasn't around, so she'd have to 
> email him. Only then could I be refunded. In the meantime I had to go away, await a phone 
> call saying it was ok, come back again. I asked for something in writing (or an email at 
> least) that I could show when I came back. She said "No need. All the managers would be 
> aware of it". I asked who the managers were, and they're the assistants who wander around 
> the shelves.
> So then, I'll have to go back, pick an assistant, and see what happens. Here's hoping! But 
> I'm not too confident that I'll be £15 better off after one more visit.
> 
> To be continued.
> 
> 
> Ed
You paid 15 for delivery, and they delivered, why do you think you get it back?

-- 
Linux Mint 22.1, Cinnamon 6.4.8,  Kernel 6.8.0-54-generic
Thunderbird 128.7.1esr, Mozilla Firefox 135.0.1
     Alan K.

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#182611

On 27/02/2025 18:51, Alan K. wrote:
> On 2/27/25 01:38 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
>> This is written in homage to Jonathan Swift; USA people might think of 
>> Mark Twain. Note, however, that every word is true.
>>
>> I've bought lots of computer gear from Curry's, so I have previous 
>> experience with them, and have often wished to publish an account.
>> This time I bought a fridge; but ended up entangled in the usual 
>> bureaucratic mess. So here's my story of a should-be-simple procedure 
>> that got mangled in the wheels.
>>
>> I bought a fridge; paid full cash, including £15 to have it delivered 
>> on a nominated date between 1 pm and 4-59pm (! yes, I know!). The 
>> deliverers turned up at 11-30 am. Luckily I was in. They installed it 
>> and took the old one away.
>>
>> I went online to get my £15 back. I talked first of all to a Chat Bot; 
>> purely automated, no human there at all; and the damn thing kept 
>> referring me to lots of lists to choose from, but none of them covered 
>> the situation I had encountered. Eventually the discussion rolled back 
>> to the door I came in.
>> So then I phoned the number on their website, not the store itself (no 
>> number shown for that), a call-centre; that too bounced me around the 
>> houses, but eventually I got a human with a very heavily 
>> eastern-accented tongue; and he said I had to go to the store.
>> I went to the store, explained the simple tale to the reception girl, 
>> and she buried herself in her computer for almost a quarter of an 
>> hour, after I'd handed her the purchase papers. Eventually she gave me 
>> the following story.
>> She needed her boss' authorisation for the refund, and he wasn't 
>> around, so she'd have to email him. Only then could I be refunded. In 
>> the meantime I had to go away, await a phone call saying it was ok, 
>> come back again. I asked for something in writing (or an email at 
>> least) that I could show when I came back. She said "No need. All the 
>> managers would be aware of it". I asked who the managers were, and 
>> they're the assistants who wander around the shelves.
>> So then, I'll have to go back, pick an assistant, and see what 
>> happens. Here's hoping! But I'm not too confident that I'll be £15 
>> better off after one more visit.
>>
>> To be continued.
>>
>>
>> Ed
> You paid 15 for delivery, and they delivered, why do you think you get 
> it back?
> 

Because it wasn't on the "nominated date between 1 pm and 4-59pm". 
Therefore, there was a breach of contract. I am surprised he took the 
delivery outside the nominated date and time. He was enttled to reject 
it outright.

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#182613

Jack wrote:
> On 27/02/2025 18:51, Alan K. wrote:
>> On 2/27/25 01:38 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>> This is written in homage to Jonathan Swift; USA people might think 
>>> of Mark Twain. Note, however, that every word is true.
>>>
>>> I've bought lots of computer gear from Curry's, so I have previous 
>>> experience with them, and have often wished to publish an account.
>>> This time I bought a fridge; but ended up entangled in the usual 
>>> bureaucratic mess. So here's my story of a should-be-simple procedure 
>>> that got mangled in the wheels.
>>>
>>> I bought a fridge; paid full cash, including £15 to have it delivered 
>>> on a nominated date between 1 pm and 4-59pm (! yes, I know!). The 
>>> deliverers turned up at 11-30 am. Luckily I was in. They installed it 
>>> and took the old one away.
>>>
>>> I went online to get my £15 back. I talked first of all to a Chat 
>>> Bot; purely automated, no human there at all; and the damn thing kept 
>>> referring me to lots of lists to choose from, but none of them 
>>> covered the situation I had encountered. Eventually the discussion 
>>> rolled back to the door I came in.
>>> So then I phoned the number on their website, not the store itself 
>>> (no number shown for that), a call-centre; that too bounced me around 
>>> the houses, but eventually I got a human with a very heavily eastern- 
>>> accented tongue; and he said I had to go to the store.
>>> I went to the store, explained the simple tale to the reception girl, 
>>> and she buried herself in her computer for almost a quarter of an 
>>> hour, after I'd handed her the purchase papers. Eventually she gave 
>>> me the following story.
>>> She needed her boss' authorisation for the refund, and he wasn't 
>>> around, so she'd have to email him. Only then could I be refunded. In 
>>> the meantime I had to go away, await a phone call saying it was ok, 
>>> come back again. I asked for something in writing (or an email at 
>>> least) that I could show when I came back. She said "No need. All the 
>>> managers would be aware of it". I asked who the managers were, and 
>>> they're the assistants who wander around the shelves.
>>> So then, I'll have to go back, pick an assistant, and see what 
>>> happens. Here's hoping! But I'm not too confident that I'll be £15 
>>> better off after one more visit.
>>>
>>> To be continued.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ed
>> You paid 15 for delivery, and they delivered, why do you think you get 
>> it back?
>>
> 
> Because it wasn't on the "nominated date between 1 pm and 4-59pm". 
> Therefore, there was a breach of contract. I am surprised he took the 
> delivery outside the nominated date and time. He was enttled to reject 
> it outright.
> 
> 

Your reply sounds like the type of thing I get from Curry's "assistants".
Are you a Curry's employee?

Ed

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#182635

On Thu, 27 Feb 2025 19:04:47 +0000, in <vpqd0u$37oo3$3@dont-email.me>,
Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:

>Jack wrote:
>> On 27/02/2025 18:51, Alan K. wrote:
>>>
>>> You paid 15 for delivery, and they delivered, why do you think you get 
>>> it back?
>>
>> 
>> Because it wasn't on the "nominated date between 1 pm and 4-59pm". 
>> Therefore, there was a breach of contract. I am surprised he took the 
>> delivery outside the nominated date and time. He was enttled to reject 
>> it outright.
>
>
>Your reply sounds like the type of thing I get from Curry's "assistants".
>Are you a Curry's employee?

Are you saying that wasn't precisely why you wanted a refund? If not,
then why?
-- 
Jim H

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#182636

Jim H wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Feb 2025 19:04:47 +0000, in <vpqd0u$37oo3$3@dont-email.me>,
> Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
> 
>> Jack wrote:
>>> On 27/02/2025 18:51, Alan K. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You paid 15 for delivery, and they delivered, why do you think you get
>>>> it back?
>>>
>>>
>>> Because it wasn't on the "nominated date between 1 pm and 4-59pm".
>>> Therefore, there was a breach of contract. I am surprised he took the
>>> delivery outside the nominated date and time. He was enttled to reject
>>> it outright.
>>
>>
>> Your reply sounds like the type of thing I get from Curry's "assistants".
>> Are you a Curry's employee?
> 
> Are you saying that wasn't precisely why you wanted a refund? If not,
> then why?

No, not that.
What struck me was Jack's surprise at me having taken the delivery. 
Should I have stubbornly sent them away and told them to come back later?
His "I am surprised he took the delivery outside the nominated date and 
time. He was enttled to reject  it outright" seems to me just as 
uncompromising, stubborn and childish as the Curry's assistant's attitude.

Ed

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#182648

On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 20:04:47 +0000, Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk>
wrote:

>Jim H wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Feb 2025 19:04:47 +0000, in <vpqd0u$37oo3$3@dont-email.me>,
>> Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> Jack wrote:
>>>> On 27/02/2025 18:51, Alan K. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You paid 15 for delivery, and they delivered, why do you think you get
>>>>> it back?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Because it wasn't on the "nominated date between 1 pm and 4-59pm".
>>>> Therefore, there was a breach of contract. I am surprised he took the
>>>> delivery outside the nominated date and time. He was enttled to reject
>>>> it outright.
>>>
>>>
>>> Your reply sounds like the type of thing I get from Curry's "assistants".
>>> Are you a Curry's employee?
>> 
>> Are you saying that wasn't precisely why you wanted a refund? If not,
>> then why?
>
>No, not that.
>What struck me was Jack's surprise at me having taken the delivery. 
>Should I have stubbornly sent them away and told them to come back later?
>His "I am surprised he took the delivery outside the nominated date and 
>time. He was enttled to reject  it outright" seems to me just as 
>uncompromising, stubborn and childish as the Curry's assistant's attitude.

 My Bank is killing their ability to send verification codes to email
addy's. I've done that since about 2010 when I opened the account. I
don't *have* a fucking mobile 'phone for them to be sent to. I told
the branch manager that. He told me that I'd need to *phone* their
"helpdesk" to be confirmed as my being an obnoxious, Luddite,
uncompromising, nasty little arsehole and for them to allow me to be
an exception. 

 I don't have a landline at home. 
 
 So I used a borrowed mobile. A lovely guy helped me to be one of
those little swampy bits that developers just have to build around. He
was nice and, for once, actually *helpful*. 

 We'll see in a couple of months whether it worked. :)

 I'm not expecting it to. 

 Companies are uncompromising shits. 

                                                J. 

>
>Ed

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#182664

John wrote:

[snip]

> 
>   My Bank is killing their ability to send verification codes to email
> addy's. I've done that since about 2010 when I opened the account. I
> don't *have* a fucking mobile 'phone for them to be sent to. I told
> the branch manager that. He told me that I'd need to *phone* their
> "helpdesk" to be confirmed as my being an obnoxious, Luddite,
> uncompromising, nasty little arsehole and for them to allow me to be
> an exception.

So did you close the account and move your money to another bank?  If 
not, why not?


-- 
Graham J

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#182704

On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 08:40:44 +0000, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk>
wrote:

>John wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> 
>>   My Bank is killing their ability to send verification codes to email
>> addy's. I've done that since about 2010 when I opened the account. I
>> don't *have* a fucking mobile 'phone for them to be sent to. I told
>> the branch manager that. He told me that I'd need to *phone* their
>> "helpdesk" to be confirmed as my being an obnoxious, Luddite,
>> uncompromising, nasty little arsehole and for them to allow me to be
>> an exception.
>
>So did you close the account and move your money to another bank?  If 
>not, why not?

 No. 
 
 They are all doing it. Slowly, erratically and with little to no
co-ordination between them, as one would expect from Banks who don't
consider this to be a valuable service to their customers. It's not
like they are dropping the interest rates on savings, which they all
do instantly. It's a trivial thing and they don't consider it
important enough to cartel it; it doesn't *cost* them much so it
doesn't merit much effort. :)

 As I mentioned, I did manage to get a nice fellow to create a lovely
little swampy bit just for me and the nasty little Luddites like me.
With luck, several major miracles and a whole bunch of programmers
working away at it I *might* get to keep notifications by email. Until
they get a new Upper Manager in to start the process all over again in
a year or so. 

 If not, then I'll just stop doing anything that requires them such as
setting up new payees, scrolling down more than a page on their
web-access to my account or a whole load of other stuff. 

 I already don't do lots of stuff that "requires" a mobile telephone
number so this is just one more idiocy imposed on me by International
Corporations in the name of "Security" theatre. 

 Sod them. [I also keep prodding at them to change their mobile number
requirement but this is a total waste of their time and mine. They
won't.]

 I didn't change banks mostly because it's a tiny, insignificant
mosquito buzz of an annoyance among the many, many others that are
dropped onto us from the little godlings in their versions of Olympus
and I quite like the bank I'm using. 

 Other banks would simply be worse and I would not have my history
with them. 

 Sometimes, not often, the bastards in the high towers *do* consider
long-term loyalty as a worthy thing to keep and will try, a little, to
retain it. If it doesn't cost them anything. 

 Though the idea of getting £150 for switching accounts every few
months is sort of amusing. :)

 I did mention it here so that others could learn from my experience
and begin to create their own little swampy bits by being utter
nuisances. Maybe, someday, in the distant future, should sufficient
numbers of swampys exist, the godlings will notice and not bowing to
their idiotic whims may become a common option on their web-sites. I
don't hold out much hope. We're far too small and poor to bother them.
 Resistance is futile but it's a little bit of fun and it annoys them
We should *always* resist. 

                                                            J. 

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#182674

John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
[...]

>  My Bank is killing their ability to send verification codes to email
> addy's. I've done that since about 2010 when I opened the account. I
> don't *have* a fucking mobile 'phone for them to be sent to. I told
> the branch manager that. He told me that I'd need to *phone* their
> "helpdesk" to be confirmed as my being an obnoxious, Luddite,
> uncompromising, nasty little arsehole and for them to allow me to be
> an exception. 

  Real banks have real security. Neither e-mail nor SMS count as real
security.

  We (in The Netherlands) have had hardware TOTP (Timed One Time
Passsword) generators since eons. Yes, we *also* have other means, but
anyone can still have and use the hardware TOTP device. So we only need
any computing device with a web-browser, the hardware TOTP device and
the bankcard which goes into its slot. No phone or phone number needed.

  Picture of an example of a hardware TOTP device:
<https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabo_Scanner#/media/Bestand:Rabo_Scanner.jpeg>

  Related (Dutch) Wikipedia webpage:
<https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabo_Scanner>

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#182677

Frank Slootweg wrote:

[snip]


>    Real banks have real security. Neither e-mail nor SMS count as real
> security.
> 
>    We (in The Netherlands) have had hardware TOTP (Timed One Time
> Passsword) generators since eons. Yes, we *also* have other means, but
> anyone can still have and use the hardware TOTP device. So we only need
> any computing device with a web-browser, the hardware TOTP device and
> the bankcard which goes into its slot. No phone or phone number needed.


We have them in the UK also.  I think I've had one since 1995.

But they are not used to authenticate charge/credit card purchases over 
the internet.  They only work for access to bank accounts.


-- 
Graham J

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#182681

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> 
> >    Real banks have real security. Neither e-mail nor SMS count as real
> > security.
> > 
> >    We (in The Netherlands) have had hardware TOTP (Timed One Time
> > Passsword) generators since eons. Yes, we *also* have other means, but
> > anyone can still have and use the hardware TOTP device. So we only need
> > any computing device with a web-browser, the hardware TOTP device and
> > the bankcard which goes into its slot. No phone or phone number needed.
> 
> 
> We have them in the UK also.  I think I've had one since 1995.
> 
> But they are not used to authenticate charge/credit card purchases over 
> the internet.  They only work for access to bank accounts.

  Here, they also work for online charge/credit card purchases. For
charge/debit cards, we use the iDEAL [1] system, which is a link between
the online merchant and your bank. A similar link exists for credit
cards (I forgot the name of that system).

[1] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDEAL>
IIRC, this might/will become a European (or EU?) standard.

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#182707

On 1 Mar 2025 16:53:52 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:

>John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>[...]
>
>>  My Bank is killing their ability to send verification codes to email
>> addy's. I've done that since about 2010 when I opened the account. I
>> don't *have* a fucking mobile 'phone for them to be sent to. I told
>> the branch manager that. He told me that I'd need to *phone* their
>> "helpdesk" to be confirmed as my being an obnoxious, Luddite,
>> uncompromising, nasty little arsehole and for them to allow me to be
>> an exception. 
>
>  Real banks have real security. Neither e-mail nor SMS count as real
>security.

 *I* know this and *you* know this but the buggers in Marketing and
Upper Level Management do not. 

 Just have a look at the pig's breakfast that is the latest version of
the "Computer Use Restrictions In England" Act, the "Online Safety
Act". It's a pile of shite. Which is rather alarming as the M.P.'s
voting it in have access to enough funds to pay for colossal numbers
of the really brightest of tech guys. They just don't *listen*. Nor,
apparently, do corporate manglers. 

 Hubris, arrogance and elitist leanings give them the idea that they
know better than the experts who have worked with real security for
decades and them being control-freaks gives them the fixed notion that
they can alter the physics of reality with their whims. They are
stupid, little people with grand myopia in every field save
controlling the people. 

 Many of them don't even have that. 

 Yet they are "in control" so we have to live with it. 

 For my part, I don't have enough funds to make a hack worthwhile so
I'm happy with the "security" provided by three "passwords" and the
HTTPS protocols. Until they fail me. Then I'll get upset. :)

>
>  We (in The Netherlands) have had hardware TOTP (Timed One Time
>Passsword) generators since eons. 

 I do have one of them ... sorry, two of them, one per bank for two
different banks, but the banks don't use them any longer. 

>Yes, we *also* have other means, but
>anyone can still have and use the hardware TOTP device. So we only need
>any computing device with a web-browser, the hardware TOTP device and
>the bankcard which goes into its slot. No phone or phone number needed.

  UKlander banks would *require* a mobile number just to be arseholes
even were one not necessary. Everyone seems to. :) 

  It's mainly a tracking thing. Like the USAlien "social security
number" or England's "National Insurance Number" or your birthdate. I
have lots of some of those. :) 

>
>  Picture of an example of a hardware TOTP device:
><https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabo_Scanner#/media/Bestand:Rabo_Scanner.jpeg>

 Yeah. Mine's nicer. :) 

>
>  Related (Dutch) Wikipedia webpage:
><https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabo_Scanner>


 Dutch is neither German nor English but I was interested to learn
that I could follow most of those pages. Thank you. :)

 I used my little RSA device for years when setting up new payees and
other stuff but eventually the bank simply quietly dropped it -
probably because they were paying for the service and cheapness
increases profiteering. There are days, usually Sundays, when I think
of offering it back to them but I forget. 

 It still has juice and still "works". 

                                                          J. 

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#182709

John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
> On 1 Mar 2025 16:53:52 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
> wrote:
[...]

> >  Real banks have real security. Neither e-mail nor SMS count as real
> >security.
> 
>  *I* know this and *you* know this but the buggers in Marketing and
> Upper Level Management do not. 

[...]

> >  We (in The Netherlands) have had hardware TOTP (Timed One Time
> >Passsword) generators since eons. 
> 
>  I do have one of them ... sorry, two of them, one per bank for two
> different banks, but the banks don't use them any longer. 

  <boggle!> Here, a bank would be in big, big trouble with the
authorities if they used/allowed e-mail/SMS and did not use/allow TOTP
generators. The opinion of the bank's 'Upper Level Management' is
totally irrelevant. they'll have to comply with the security
requirements.

  FYI, we  -well at least our banks - never had e-mail/SMS
authentication, because it's just not safe enough.

> >Yes, we *also* have other means, but
> >anyone can still have and use the hardware TOTP device. So we only need
> >any computing device with a web-browser, the hardware TOTP device and
> >the bankcard which goes into its slot. No phone or phone number needed.
> 
>   UKlander banks would *require* a mobile number just to be arseholes
> even were one not necessary. Everyone seems to. :) 

  Here, any unreasonable/unneded requirement is null and void. Of course
it'll take effort to get things your way.

[...]

> >  Related (Dutch) Wikipedia webpage:
> ><https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabo_Scanner>
> 
>  Dutch is neither German nor English but I was interested to learn
> that I could follow most of those pages. Thank you. :)

  You're welcome. Glad you enjoyed it.

[...]

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#182726

On 2 Mar 2025 13:33:19 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:

>John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>> On 1 Mar 2025 16:53:52 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
>> wrote:
>[...]
>
>> >  Real banks have real security. Neither e-mail nor SMS count as real
>> >security.
>> 
>>  *I* know this and *you* know this but the buggers in Marketing and
>> Upper Level Management do not. 
>
>[...]
>
>> >  We (in The Netherlands) have had hardware TOTP (Timed One Time
>> >Passsword) generators since eons. 
>> 
>>  I do have one of them ... sorry, two of them, one per bank for two
>> different banks, but the banks don't use them any longer. 
>
>  <boggle!> Here, a bank would be in big, big trouble with the
>authorities if they used/allowed e-mail/SMS and did not use/allow TOTP
>generators. The opinion of the bank's 'Upper Level Management' is
>totally irrelevant. they'll have to comply with the security
>requirements.

 Yeah, well, UKland is within pissing distance of being USAlia but
with less money, no "Bill Of Rights" and no "right to arm bears". We
get more and more USAlien each and every year. 

>
>  FYI, we  -well at least our banks - never had e-mail/SMS
>authentication, because it's just not safe enough.

 That is moot. It's not about safety, but about security theatre and
data collection. If they get your mobile number they can track you
wherever you go, whatever you buy and whichever sites you read. It's a
control-freak thing. 

 The real control-freaks will *buy* collated data from the banks and
other companies, de-anonymise it and aggregate it to build profiles.
They seem to think that this keeps them safe and in control. 

>
>> >Yes, we *also* have other means, but
>> >anyone can still have and use the hardware TOTP device. So we only need
>> >any computing device with a web-browser, the hardware TOTP device and
>> >the bankcard which goes into its slot. No phone or phone number needed.
>> 
>>   UKlander banks would *require* a mobile number just to be arseholes
>> even were one not necessary. Everyone seems to. :) 
>
>  Here, any unreasonable/unneded requirement is null and void. Of course
>it'll take effort to get things your way.

  No. It will take a constant effort to annoy them. We will *never*
get things to go back to being looser and more free. It is not in the
nature of control-freaks to ever let go of *any* levers. They are
terrified that one tiny slippage will mean them ending up as
unemployable poor people drowning in the sludge like the rest of us
instead of enjoying their powers, private laws, perquisites and
profits. 

  There is no coming back. 

>
>[...]
>
>> >  Related (Dutch) Wikipedia webpage:
>> ><https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabo_Scanner>
>> 
>>  Dutch is neither German nor English but I was interested to learn
>> that I could follow most of those pages. Thank you. :)
>
>  You're welcome. Glad you enjoyed it.

 I do enjoy a good puzzle, some days, thank you. :) 

                                                         J. 

>
>[...]

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#182675

On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 20:04:47 +0000, in <vpt4ts$3qjr0$1@dont-email.me>,
Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:

>Jim H wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Feb 2025 19:04:47 +0000, in <vpqd0u$37oo3$3@dont-email.me>,
>>
>> Are you saying that wasn't precisely why you wanted a refund? If not,
>> then why?
>
>No, not that.
>What struck me was Jack's surprise at me having taken the delivery. 
>Should I have stubbornly sent them away and told them to come back later?
>His "I am surprised he took the delivery outside the nominated date and 
>time. He was enttled to reject  it outright" seems to me just as 
>uncompromising, stubborn and childish as the Curry's assistant's attitude.


Understood now and 100% agreed.
-- 
Jim H

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#182622

On 27/02/2025 18:38, Ed Cryer wrote:
> This is written in homage to Jonathan Swift; USA people might think of 
> Mark Twain. Note, however, that every word is true.
> 
> I've bought lots of computer gear from Curry's, so I have previous 
> experience with them, and have often wished to publish an account.
> This time I bought a fridge; but ended up entangled in the usual 
> bureaucratic mess. So here's my story of a should-be-simple procedure 
> that got mangled in the wheels.
> 
> I bought a fridge; paid full cash, including £15 to have it delivered on 
> a nominated date between 1 pm and 4-59pm (! yes, I know!). The 
> deliverers turned up at 11-30 am. Luckily I was in. They installed it 
> and took the old one away.
> 
> I went online to get my £15 back. I talked first of all to a Chat Bot; 
> purely automated, no human there at all; and the damn thing kept 
> referring me to lots of lists to choose from, but none of them covered 
> the situation I had encountered. Eventually the discussion rolled back 
> to the door I came in.
> So then I phoned the number on their website, not the store itself (no 
> number shown for that), a call-centre; that too bounced me around the 
> houses, but eventually I got a human with a very heavily 
> eastern-accented tongue; and he said I had to go to the store.
> I went to the store, explained the simple tale to the reception girl, 
> and she buried herself in her computer for almost a quarter of an hour, 
> after I'd handed her the purchase papers. Eventually she gave me the 
> following story.
> She needed her boss' authorisation for the refund, and he wasn't around, 
> so she'd have to email him. Only then could I be refunded. In the 
> meantime I had to go away, await a phone call saying it was ok, come 
> back again. I asked for something in writing (or an email at least) that 
> I could show when I came back. She said "No need. All the managers would 
> be aware of it". I asked who the managers were, and they're the 
> assistants who wander around the shelves.
> So then, I'll have to go back, pick an assistant, and see what happens. 
> Here's hoping! But I'm not too confident that I'll be £15 better off 
> after one more visit.
> 
> To be continued.
> 

Can you continue in another group?
This has nothing to do with Windows 10.



-- 
Regards
wasbit

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#182627

Ed Cryer wrote:
> This is written in homage to Jonathan Swift; USA people might think of 
> Mark Twain. Note, however, that every word is true.
> 
> I've bought lots of computer gear from Curry's, so I have previous 
> experience with them, and have often wished to publish an account.
> This time I bought a fridge; but ended up entangled in the usual 
> bureaucratic mess. So here's my story of a should-be-simple procedure 
> that got mangled in the wheels.
> 
> I bought a fridge; paid full cash, including £15 to have it delivered on 
> a nominated date between 1 pm and 4-59pm (! yes, I know!). The 
> deliverers turned up at 11-30 am. Luckily I was in. They installed it 
> and took the old one away.
> 
> I went online to get my £15 back. I talked first of all to a Chat Bot; 
> purely automated, no human there at all; and the damn thing kept 
> referring me to lots of lists to choose from, but none of them covered 
> the situation I had encountered. Eventually the discussion rolled back 
> to the door I came in.
> So then I phoned the number on their website, not the store itself (no 
> number shown for that), a call-centre; that too bounced me around the 
> houses, but eventually I got a human with a very heavily eastern- 
> accented tongue; and he said I had to go to the store.
> I went to the store, explained the simple tale to the reception girl, 
> and she buried herself in her computer for almost a quarter of an hour, 
> after I'd handed her the purchase papers. Eventually she gave me the 
> following story.
> She needed her boss' authorisation for the refund, and he wasn't around, 
> so she'd have to email him. Only then could I be refunded. In the 
> meantime I had to go away, await a phone call saying it was ok, come 
> back again. I asked for something in writing (or an email at least) that 
> I could show when I came back. She said "No need. All the managers would 
> be aware of it". I asked who the managers were, and they're the 
> assistants who wander around the shelves.
> So then, I'll have to go back, pick an assistant, and see what happens. 
> Here's hoping! But I'm not too confident that I'll be £15 better off 
> after one more visit.
> 
> To be continued.
> 
> 
> Ed

Well, I'll be blowed, I got the refund.
I didn't get a phone call, but I called in the store this next day and 
after a brief talk with an assistant I came out a winner.
End of tale.

Ed

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