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My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead.

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  My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead.  micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2025-01-26 03:59 -0500
    Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-26 05:52 -0500
      Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2025-01-26 11:03 -0500
        Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-26 16:19 +0000
          Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. SOLVED, or Problem went away.  micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2025-04-02 18:22 -0400
        Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2025-01-26 11:07 -0800
    Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-26 15:34 +0000
      Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2025-01-26 11:11 -0500
        Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-26 16:25 +0000
          Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-26 16:17 -0500
            Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2025-01-28 10:24 -0500
              Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-28 16:15 -0500
          Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2025-04-02 18:21 -0400
    Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-01-26 17:06 +0000
      Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead.  SOLVED micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2025-01-27 22:55 -0500
        Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. SOLVED Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-27 23:42 -0500
          Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. SOLVED Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-28 01:13 -0500
    Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. Paul in Houston TX <Paul@Houston.Texas> - 2025-01-28 18:44 -0600

#181731 — My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead.

My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. 

I bought from Amazon a renwed Dell laptop about 4 yeears old.  It came
on Dec 12.  I used it for about an hour and it was fine.  the charger
charged.  I coudl dl and install Firefox. I could use an external mouse.
A few other things worked. 

Then I got sick from something the doctor did to me on Dec. 11 and
didn't have the strength to work on it until last tonight. The battery
still had almost all its charge an dit started right up. I plugged in
the ext. mouse and an ext keyboard.  Then I wanted to go upstairs for a
hub, to plug in external drive.   I slept it, and notice that it woke up
when I opened the lid, then the screen went dark again when I closed the
lid, without touching any keys either time. 

Left the charger plugged in for 3 or 4 hours.  The light on the included
charger was on. There are no lights on the laptop to tell when it's
charging or on, or when caps/num/scroll lock are on. When I came
downstairs and plugged in the hub and tried to start it, it's totally
dead.  I unplugged all the usb things and it's still dead. 

I can get the model number tomorrow moring, but does what I've said give
any ideas?   And are Amazon refurbs guaranteed for 2 months? :-(  

The only thing I added to the mix today was the hub and the ext drive.
The ext drive I've used before, including 2 days ago on the other pc.
Could a bad hub do this much damage? 

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#181732

On Sun, 1/26/2025 3:59 AM, micky wrote:
> My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. 
> 
> I bought from Amazon a renwed Dell laptop about 4 yeears old.  It came
> on Dec 12.  I used it for about an hour and it was fine.  the charger
> charged.  I coudl dl and install Firefox. I could use an external mouse.
> A few other things worked. 
> 
> Then I got sick from something the doctor did to me on Dec. 11 and
> didn't have the strength to work on it until last tonight. The battery
> still had almost all its charge an dit started right up. I plugged in
> the ext. mouse and an ext keyboard.  Then I wanted to go upstairs for a
> hub, to plug in external drive.   I slept it, and notice that it woke up
> when I opened the lid, then the screen went dark again when I closed the
> lid, without touching any keys either time. 
> 
> Left the charger plugged in for 3 or 4 hours.  The light on the included
> charger was on. There are no lights on the laptop to tell when it's
> charging or on, or when caps/num/scroll lock are on. When I came
> downstairs and plugged in the hub and tried to start it, it's totally
> dead.  I unplugged all the usb things and it's still dead. 
> 
> I can get the model number tomorrow moring, but does what I've said give
> any ideas?   And are Amazon refurbs guaranteed for 2 months? :-(  
> 
> The only thing I added to the mix today was the hub and the ext drive.
> The ext drive I've used before, including 2 days ago on the other pc.
> Could a bad hub do this much damage? 
> 

Does the adapter look like the original adapter ?

Or, do you suppose, some scumbag threw an adapter in
the box that doesn't actually go with that laptop ?

We had this discussion years ago. At first, I figured with
switching converters, it wouldn't really matter what you
fed a laptop. But as it turns out, the circuitry inside
the laptop economizes  and does not work any magic. The
uncertainty on the voltage could be on the order of +/- 0.5V
or so. In other words, as far as the engineer who designed
the laptop is concerned, "use our adapter... or else".

Someone was convinced they were going to follow the direction
of some sales site, and use an adapter that "covers a large
number of models". The voltage was only off by a little bit.
The person posting was doing a victory laptop, when the laptop
was charging and the bargain charger had been delivered and so on.

But he wrote back about a month later to report the laptop
was dead, and it would appear that perhaps the voltage difference
was sufficient to overheat something inside.

We can't really know from this altitude, what happened to it.
It could be random mortality. But on the other hand, the
nature of refurbs, how many jokers would return the laptop
to the IT department including with the kit, the original
wall adapter ? If it was coming off lease, the lease company would
be lucky to just get the laptop.

it could be, this isn't your fault, and it's just how the
bits and pieces were assembled before shipment.

If the machine is from a major vendor, the "parts store" of
that vendor, would have a standard parts number in their
listing for the laptop. You could examine the adapter and
see if that part number is stamped on it.

   Paul

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#181739

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 26 Jan 2025 05:52:22 -0500, Paul
<nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 1/26/2025 3:59 AM, micky wrote:
>> My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. 
>> 
>> I bought from Amazon a renwed Dell laptop about 4 yeears old.  It came
>> on Dec 12.  I used it for about an hour and it was fine.  the charger
>> charged.  I coudl dl and install Firefox. I could use an external mouse.
>> A few other things worked. 
>> 
>> Then I got sick from something the doctor did to me on Dec. 11 and
>> didn't have the strength to work on it until last tonight. The battery
>> still had almost all its charge an dit started right up. I plugged in
>> the ext. mouse and an ext keyboard.  Then I wanted to go upstairs for a
>> hub, to plug in external drive.   I slept it, and notice that it woke up
>> when I opened the lid, then the screen went dark again when I closed the
>> lid, without touching any keys either time. 
>> 
>> Left the charger plugged in for 3 or 4 hours.  The light on the included
>> charger was on. There are no lights on the laptop to tell when it's
>> charging or on, or when caps/num/scroll lock are on. When I came
>> downstairs and plugged in the hub and tried to start it, it's totally
>> dead.  I unplugged all the usb things and it's still dead. 
>> 
>> I can get the model number tomorrow moring, but does what I've said give
>> any ideas?   And are Amazon refurbs guaranteed for 2 months? :-(  
>> 
>> The only thing I added to the mix today was the hub and the ext drive.
>> The ext drive I've used before, including 2 days ago on the other pc.
>> Could a bad hub do this much damage? 
>> 
>
>Does the adapter look like the original adapter ?

Well, the adapter is marked:

Dell Inc. [2 japanese characters]
AC/DC ADAPTER  (many japanese characters)

PA-12 Family  DELL P/N 1XRN1

REF. NO;ADP-65TH F
MODEL japch DA65NM111-00
INPUT 100-240V ~1.6A 50-60HZ LPS
OUTPUT 19.5V 3.34A (symbol for center positive)

and then in the corner with a qr code CN-01XRN1-48661-
26T-6k4D-A01
Made in China
DP/N 01XRN1

Shouldn't this be good enough? 

--- How does one get the wattage?  by multiplying the *output* volts by
amps??  For this one that gives 65 watts, but even if it were zero, the
lid was closed and the screen off all that time that I was upstairs.   

I found it strange that opening the lid and doing no more than that lit
up the screen, but that might be a recent feature??

Also, I left the adapater plugged in for the last 6 weeks, thinking I
could work on the computer during that time, but I couldn't. I leave
other adapters plugged in for 6 months at a time.  

With a meter, the ps goes no higher than 17v; and then it drops, but
perhaps that is just a problem with holding the probe on to the little
pin inside the plug.  What do you think. 

Aha, the entry in my Amazon Orders for the  item says "Return or replace
items: Eligible through March 12, 2025 ", so I guess I'm in good shape,
but I still want to complain about the right thing. 

BTW, the laptop looks spotless, hard to believe anyone has ever used it.
Is that because the refurbishers are fantastic at cleaning them, or
maybe it was hardly used??   

Also, it has a slot for a Smart Card Reader.  Doesn't that mean it was
used in some fairly large or security-conscious corporation, which might
swap out laptops when they are still quite good, because after all, it's
covered by the Defense Budget??  (Is there any use I can make of the
smart card reader? Could I print my own cards and give them to selected
friends?) 

>Or, do you suppose, some scumbag threw an adapter in
>the box that doesn't actually go with that laptop ?

Possible. 

When I googled     power adapter for Dell Latitude 5510

I find several that don't look exactly like mine, even if the Dell logo
is on them, and one that's not even recormmmended for mine, but they are
all at least 19.5v and 3.34A.  Some are 65w, some 90w


OTOH, if I go to Dell itself, the one they recommend is $64.99!!
https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-90w-74mm-ac-adapter/apd/492-bbzu/pc-accessories
Dell 90W 7.4mm AC Adapter but no part number, and no picture big enough
to see if there's a part number.  

>We had this discussion years ago. At first, I figured with
>switching converters, it wouldn't really matter what you
>fed a laptop. But as it turns out, the circuitry inside
>the laptop economizes  and does not work any magic. The
>uncertainty on the voltage could be on the order of +/- 0.5V
>or so. In other words, as far as the engineer who designed
>the laptop is concerned, "use our adapter... or else".
>
>Someone was convinced they were going to follow the direction
>of some sales site, and use an adapter that "covers a large
>number of models". The voltage was only off by a little bit.
>The person posting was doing a victory laptop, when the laptop
>was charging and the bargain charger had been delivered and so on.
>
>But he wrote back about a month later to report the laptop
>was dead, and it would appear that perhaps the voltage difference
>was sufficient to overheat something inside.
>
>We can't really know from this altitude, what happened to it.
>It could be random mortality. But on the other hand, the
>nature of refurbs, how many jokers would return the laptop
>to the IT department including with the kit, the original
>wall adapter ? If it was coming off lease, the lease company would
>be lucky to just get the laptop.
>
>it could be, this isn't your fault, and it's just how the
>bits and pieces were assembled before shipment.
>
>If the machine is from a major vendor, the "parts store" of
>that vendor, would have a standard parts number in their
>listing for the laptop. You could examine the adapter and
>see if that part number is stamped on it.

It's Dell, but I couldnt' find an original part number for the adapter.
Under Parts, they just had new models. 
>
>   Paul

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#181742

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
[...]

> I found it strange that opening the lid and doing no more than that lit
> up the screen, but that might be a recent feature??

  It's normal for a laptop to wake up and light the screen when the lid
is opened.

  If it has a password for login, the screen normally goes blank again
rather quickly, if you don't press a key or move the 'mouse' to get a
login prompt.

  BTW, if you still have the adapter for your old laptop and if that has
the same DC voltage, amperage, polarity and barrel connector, you could
try that on the new laptop or vice versa.

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#183195 — Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. SOLVED, or Problem went away.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on 26 Jan 2025 16:19:42 GMT, Frank Slootweg
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>[...]
>
>> I found it strange that opening the lid and doing no more than that lit
>> up the screen, but that might be a recent feature??
>
>  It's normal for a laptop to wake up and light the screen when the lid
>is opened.
>
>  If it has a password for login, the screen normally goes blank again
>rather quickly, if you don't press a key or move the 'mouse' to get a
>login prompt.

Oooo.  that could be something important I didn't do . 

>  BTW, if you still have the adapter for your old laptop and if that has
>the same DC voltage, amperage, polarity and barrel connector, you could
>try that on the new laptop or vice versa.

Different connector.  Somehwere I have a universal adapter where the tip
tells the box what voltage to make, but I've mislaid it and also
separately, the tips. [Found them!]  If the device were not guaranteed
for 3 months, I'd be hunting harder for it.  I didn't pay much attention
to the guarantee because things usually work .

Sorry for the delay.  The problem went away. 

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#181750

micky wrote:
> BTW, the laptop looks spotless, hard to believe anyone has ever used it.
> Is that because the refurbishers are fantastic at cleaning them, or
> maybe it was hardly used??

I have been very fortunate in the 3 refurbs I've bought, 2 desktops and 
1 laptop.  The two desktops were like you describe, spotless, 
shrinkwrapped, 'seemingly' brand new unused.  The one laptop bought as a 
refurb at a storefront was also extremely clean, but testing showed a 
high cpu temp and I took it back to the store and got a different same 
refurb which was also excellent.  Neither of the laptops were quite as 
'pristine' as the two desktops but in excellent condition.

The same storefront I bought the laptop where I shopped a lot while it 
was still in business salespeople strongly advised me against buying 
refurbs (incl from their place) because they said they were always 
'dogs', beat-up and possibly defective.  Not for me.

The desktops were from WalMart, ordered online, picked up at the store 
after delivered there, both from the same refurb outfit; the laptop and 
storefront were Fry's which is prone to 'repackaging' and labeling the 
repackaging as such, sometimes the repackages are cheaper than 'never 
unpackaged' on the same shelf and sometimes not.  The Fry's refurb was 
not the same outfit as for the 2 desktops.

Both Fry's and WalMart are extremely easy about return for credit or 
exchange, and when handled at the storefront there are no 'how to handle 
the shipping problem' issues.

I would love it if such as an Amazon purchase of a refurb would identify 
the refurb outfit; some are very good.

-- 
Mike Easter

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#181737

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
> My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. 
> 
> I bought from Amazon a renwed Dell laptop about 4 yeears old.  It came
> on Dec 12.  I used it for about an hour and it was fine.  the charger
> charged.  I coudl dl and install Firefox. I could use an external mouse.
> A few other things worked. 
> 
> Then I got sick from something the doctor did to me on Dec. 11 and
> didn't have the strength to work on it until last tonight. The battery
> still had almost all its charge an dit started right up. I plugged in
> the ext. mouse and an ext keyboard.  Then I wanted to go upstairs for a
> hub, to plug in external drive.   I slept it, and notice that it woke up
> when I opened the lid, then the screen went dark again when I closed the
> lid, without touching any keys either time. 
> 
> Left the charger plugged in for 3 or 4 hours.  The light on the included
> charger was on. There are no lights on the laptop to tell when it's
> charging or on, or when caps/num/scroll lock are on. When I came
> downstairs and plugged in the hub and tried to start it, it's totally
> dead.  I unplugged all the usb things and it's still dead. 

  Is the charger plug on the laptop side a USB-C plug or a 'old'-style
barrel connector. If the latter, I have yet to see a DC barrel port on a
laptop, which does not have a small LED next to the port.

  Same for LEDs on the keyboard. At minimum, there's a LED in/near the
power button and probably several others in, or next to, some keys.

  So look for these LEDs, even if they are unlit. Normally they are just
tiny, about 1mm, holes.

  If there are LEDs, but none of them are lit, and the light of the charger
itself is on, I would suspect a bad cable/connection from the charger to
the laptop or indeed a totally dead laptop.

> I can get the model number tomorrow moring, but does what I've said give
> any ideas?   And are Amazon refurbs guaranteed for 2 months? :-(  
> 
> The only thing I added to the mix today was the hub and the ext drive.
> The ext drive I've used before, including 2 days ago on the other pc.
> Could a bad hub do this much damage? 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#181740

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on 26 Jan 2025 15:34:31 GMT, Frank Slootweg
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>> My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. 
>> 
>> I bought from Amazon a renwed Dell laptop about 4 yeears old.  It came
>> on Dec 12.  I used it for about an hour and it was fine.  the charger
>> charged.  I coudl dl and install Firefox. I could use an external mouse.
>> A few other things worked. 
>> 
>> Then I got sick from something the doctor did to me on Dec. 11 and
>> didn't have the strength to work on it until last tonight. The battery
>> still had almost all its charge an dit started right up. I plugged in
>> the ext. mouse and an ext keyboard.  Then I wanted to go upstairs for a
>> hub, to plug in external drive.   I slept it, and notice that it woke up
>> when I opened the lid, then the screen went dark again when I closed the
>> lid, without touching any keys either time. 
>> 
>> Left the charger plugged in for 3 or 4 hours.  The light on the included
>> charger was on. There are no lights on the laptop to tell when it's
>> charging or on, or when caps/num/scroll lock are on. When I came
>> downstairs and plugged in the hub and tried to start it, it's totally
>> dead.  I unplugged all the usb things and it's still dead. 
>
>  Is the charger plug on the laptop side a USB-C plug or a 'old'-style
>barrel connector. If the latter, I have yet to see a DC barrel port on a
>laptop, which does not have a small LED next to the port.

Barrel connector.  I'll look again. 
>
>  Same for LEDs on the keyboard. At minimum, there's a LED in/near the
>power button and probably several others in, or next to, some keys.
>
>  So look for these LEDs, even if they are unlit. Normally they are just
>tiny, about 1mm, holes.

I looked when it was running but I'll look again. 

>  If there are LEDs, but none of them are lit, and the light of the charger
>itself is on, I would suspect a bad cable/connection from the charger to
>the laptop or indeed a totally dead laptop.

It's supposed to be 19.5 volts but the highest number I could get from
my VOM was 17v, and that quickly dropped, gradually or as low as 5!  Of
course it was hard to hold the probe to the center pin, and i'm not
building a jig just for this.  I'll see what the vendor says. 

I have a universal adapter somewhere but the tips are somewhere else.
Dang.  If I clean the whole spare bedroom, I might find one of those two
things. 

>> I can get the model number tomorrow moring, but does what I've said give
>> any ideas?   And are Amazon refurbs guaranteed for 2 months? :-(  

Actually 3 months, at least this one is, so I'm in good shape.  I have
until March 12, 3 months to the day from when it was delivered. 
>> 
>> The only thing I added to the mix today was the hub and the ext drive.
>> The ext drive I've used before, including 2 days ago on the other pc.
>> Could a bad hub do this much damage? 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#181743

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
[...]

> >  If there are LEDs, but none of them are lit, and the light of the charger
> >itself is on, I would suspect a bad cable/connection from the charger to
> >the laptop or indeed a totally dead laptop.
> 
> It's supposed to be 19.5 volts but the highest number I could get from
> my VOM was 17v, and that quickly dropped, gradually or as low as 5!  Of
> course it was hard to hold the probe to the center pin, and i'm not
> building a jig just for this.  I'll see what the vendor says. 

  This is probably one for Paul (my electronics knowledge is limited and
slipping), but AFAIK, a laptop adapter will not supply the specified
voltage unless you draw some current from it, which your meter doesn't
do (well, only very little, not enough).

[...]

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#181754

On Sun, 1/26/2025 11:25 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
> [...]
> 
>>>  If there are LEDs, but none of them are lit, and the light of the charger
>>> itself is on, I would suspect a bad cable/connection from the charger to
>>> the laptop or indeed a totally dead laptop.
>>
>> It's supposed to be 19.5 volts but the highest number I could get from
>> my VOM was 17v, and that quickly dropped, gradually or as low as 5!  Of
>> course it was hard to hold the probe to the center pin, and i'm not
>> building a jig just for this.  I'll see what the vendor says. 
> 
>   This is probably one for Paul (my electronics knowledge is limited and
> slipping), but AFAIK, a laptop adapter will not supply the specified
> voltage unless you draw some current from it, which your meter doesn't
> do (well, only very little, not enough).
> 
> [...]
> 

it should be fine, no load. You would get 19.5V.
If you shorted it, it would give 0 and there would
be a spark (capacitor discharge).

The results Micky is getting, suggest the adapter
is not all that happy.

However, there is one other possibility. Some adapters
actually have three electrical contact points, and one
of them is an "enable". If the adapter is that type, then
the contact with the actual power on it, won't be enabled
while the plug is sitting in air.

I don't know the details of this, I was only told
of the possibility of that being present. Perhaps both
the jack and the barrel plug are larger than normal
for those. My laptop is only two contacts, and the
center contact, there is no room for any third option.

This example is a third build option. Some laptops
have available to them, two power levels for the adapter.
The third contact on the barrel, is a serial declaration
ROM. These are used on gamer laptops, to determine what
got plugged in. The laptop then avoids overloading the
lower-power adapter, if it is discovered to be present.

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/16047/3-contact-laptop-power-supply

Using a calibrated eyeball, you can examine both parts
involved, to determine whether it's just a plain two contact
case, or is one of the more complicated ones. It is likely
to take a "wide" barrel, to do a complicated one.

  Paul

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#181773

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 26 Jan 2025 16:17:33 -0500, Paul
<nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 1/26/2025 11:25 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>> [...]
>> 
>>>>  If there are LEDs, but none of them are lit, and the light of the charger
>>>> itself is on, I would suspect a bad cable/connection from the charger to
>>>> the laptop or indeed a totally dead laptop.
>>>
>>> It's supposed to be 19.5 volts but the highest number I could get from
>>> my VOM was 17v, and that quickly dropped, gradually or as low as 5!  Of
>>> course it was hard to hold the probe to the center pin, and i'm not
>>> building a jig just for this.  I'll see what the vendor says. 
>> 
>>   This is probably one for Paul (my electronics knowledge is limited and
>> slipping), but AFAIK, a laptop adapter will not supply the specified
>> voltage unless you draw some current from it, which your meter doesn't
>> do (well, only very little, not enough).
>> 
Hmmm. I've heard of that but I don't remember with what device. 

>> [...]
>> 
>
>it should be fine, no load. You would get 19.5V.
>If you shorted it, it would give 0 and there would
>be a spark (capacitor discharge).
>
>The results Micky is getting, suggest the adapter
>is not all that happy.
>
>However, there is one other possibility. Some adapters
>actually have three electrical contact points, and one

No, simple barrel plug.   A Dell. 

I have, but can't find, a universal adapter with 3 prong tips so that
the adapter knows what voltage to put out, but the actual plug on the
end of the tip is 2-contact. 

>of them is an "enable". If the adapter is that type, then
>the contact with the actual power on it, won't be enabled
>while the plug is sitting in air.
>
>I don't know the details of this, I was only told
>of the possibility of that being present. Perhaps both
>the jack and the barrel plug are larger than normal
>for those. My laptop is only two contacts, and the
>center contact, there is no room for any third option.

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#181777

On Tue, 1/28/2025 10:24 AM, micky wrote:
> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 26 Jan 2025 16:17:33 -0500, Paul
> <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 1/26/2025 11:25 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>>>  If there are LEDs, but none of them are lit, and the light of the charger
>>>>> itself is on, I would suspect a bad cable/connection from the charger to
>>>>> the laptop or indeed a totally dead laptop.
>>>>
>>>> It's supposed to be 19.5 volts but the highest number I could get from
>>>> my VOM was 17v, and that quickly dropped, gradually or as low as 5!  Of
>>>> course it was hard to hold the probe to the center pin, and i'm not
>>>> building a jig just for this.  I'll see what the vendor says. 
>>>
>>>   This is probably one for Paul (my electronics knowledge is limited and
>>> slipping), but AFAIK, a laptop adapter will not supply the specified
>>> voltage unless you draw some current from it, which your meter doesn't
>>> do (well, only very little, not enough).
>>>
> Hmmm. I've heard of that but I don't remember with what device. 
> 
>>> [...]
>>>
>>
>> it should be fine, no load. You would get 19.5V.
>> If you shorted it, it would give 0 and there would
>> be a spark (capacitor discharge).
>>
>> The results Micky is getting, suggest the adapter
>> is not all that happy.
>>
>> However, there is one other possibility. Some adapters
>> actually have three electrical contact points, and one
> 
> No, simple barrel plug.   A Dell. 
> 
> I have, but can't find, a universal adapter with 3 prong tips so that
> the adapter knows what voltage to put out, but the actual plug on the
> end of the tip is 2-contact. 
> 
>> of them is an "enable". If the adapter is that type, then
>> the contact with the actual power on it, won't be enabled
>> while the plug is sitting in air.
>>
>> I don't know the details of this, I was only told
>> of the possibility of that being present. Perhaps both
>> the jack and the barrel plug are larger than normal
>> for those. My laptop is only two contacts, and the
>> center contact, there is no room for any third option.

If it is a simple adapter it should have a stable voltage.
Barring any temporary short circuits you might apply.

   Paul

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#183194

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on 26 Jan 2025 16:25:56 GMT, Frank Slootweg
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
>[...]
>
>> >  If there are LEDs, but none of them are lit, and the light of the charger
>> >itself is on, I would suspect a bad cable/connection from the charger to
>> >the laptop or indeed a totally dead laptop.
>> 
>> It's supposed to be 19.5 volts but the highest number I could get from
>> my VOM was 17v, and that quickly dropped, gradually or as low as 5!  Of
>> course it was hard to hold the probe to the center pin, and i'm not
>> building a jig just for this.  I'll see what the vendor says. 
>
>  This is probably one for Paul (my electronics knowledge is limited and
>slipping), but AFAIK, a laptop adapter will not supply the specified
>voltage unless you draw some current from it, which your meter doesn't
>do (well, only very little, not enough).

Good to know.  The fact that anyting was coming out probably means it's
working.  But  your prior post about touching a key may be even more
help. 
>[...]

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#181745

Have you done the usual holding the on button for 15 seconds thing to 
force a complete power down?

I generally totally disable sleep, hibernate and maybe also screen 
savers on laptops. If they don't just immediately work perfectly it's 
usually a nightmare trying to work out what's wrong with them. Often 
laptops that could handle them on, say, Windows 7 completely fail with, 
say, Windows 10.

-- 
Brian Gregory (in England).

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#181768 — Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. SOLVED

win11 added because this is really a win11 topic after all. And partly
win10.  "After one hour of working fine, new to me refurbished laptop is
dead and nothing wakes it up."

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 26 Jan 2025 17:06:03 +0000, Brian
Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:

>Have you done the usual holding the on button for 15 seconds thing to 
>force a complete power down?

Well, no, because I thought it *was* off.  The lights I had not noticed,
the one on the power key, the one in front that means it's charging, and
the lighted keyboard were all off.  No lights were on and the screen was
totally dark. 

But after trying a few more things this morning (well, really the same
things, unplugging and plugging in the charger and pushing Power), I
remembered what you said above and by golly, that worked. Maybe I
pressed Power again and the first thing I noticed is the keyboard lit
up. 7 points for you.  Heck, 500 points.   My next step was to call the
renewer!, couldn't call him on the weekend, and now I don't have to do
that. 

Where did you learn that this could work in this situation? 

AFAICT, it had checked for windows updates and of course there were some
becuase I hadn't turned it on for 6 weeks, and it had only been on an
hour 6 weeks ago.  Saturday night was the last time it checked for
updates, but this morning was when they were installed.  A lot of them. 

I haven't figured out yet how to enable Hibernate, and when I tried
Sleep, it blinked and woke up again each time, so I no longer remember
if I just closd the lid or if I tried to turn it off (I think I closed
the lid), but somehow it got stopped in the middle of windows update. 
>
>I generally totally disable sleep, hibernate and maybe also screen 
>savers on laptops. If they don't just immediately work perfectly it's 
>usually a nightmare trying to work out what's wrong with them. Often 

I guess I got a sample of that. 

And it seemed to do it again later today, Monday -- had to hold the
power button down until it turned off -- but since then it's behaved
itself. 

>laptops that could handle them on, say, Windows 7 completely fail with, 
>say, Windows 10.

I've had no trouble with any of themm and I use them "all the time".
Except that even though I set the mice to not wake the pc up from sleep,
sometimes they still do when I accidentally bump one of the mice on my
desk, but that's small potatoes compare to your complaint.  This new
win11 is not off to a good start with the confusion it gave me this
weekend, and it will take several days before I can enable Hibernate and
test Sleep, but if I have problems I plan to report back. 

You can redeem your points at the M&H Green Stamps Redemption Center in
Baltimore.  M-F 9 to 5:30 ET. I'll send address later.  Unfortunately,
you must redeem them in person, but we have some very nice prizes. Do
you need a FAX machine? 

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#181769 — Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. SOLVED

On Mon, 1/27/2025 10:55 PM, micky wrote:

alt.comp.os.windows-11 added, because... micky

> win11 added because this is really a win11 topic after all. And partly
> win10.  "After one hour of working fine, new to me refurbished laptop is
> dead and nothing wakes it up."
> 
> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 26 Jan 2025 17:06:03 +0000, Brian
> Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Have you done the usual holding the on button for 15 seconds thing to 
>> force a complete power down?
> 
> Well, no, because I thought it *was* off.  The lights I had not noticed,
> the one on the power key, the one in front that means it's charging, and
> the lighted keyboard were all off.  No lights were on and the screen was
> totally dark. 
> 
> But after trying a few more things this morning (well, really the same
> things, unplugging and plugging in the charger and pushing Power), I
> remembered what you said above and by golly, that worked. Maybe I
> pressed Power again and the first thing I noticed is the keyboard lit
> up. 7 points for you.  Heck, 500 points.   My next step was to call the
> renewer!, couldn't call him on the weekend, and now I don't have to do
> that. 
> 
> Where did you learn that this could work in this situation? 
> 
> AFAICT, it had checked for windows updates and of course there were some
> becuase I hadn't turned it on for 6 weeks, and it had only been on an
> hour 6 weeks ago.  Saturday night was the last time it checked for
> updates, but this morning was when they were installed.  A lot of them. 
> 
> I haven't figured out yet how to enable Hibernate, and when I tried
> Sleep, it blinked and woke up again each time, so I no longer remember
> if I just closd the lid or if I tried to turn it off (I think I closed
> the lid), but somehow it got stopped in the middle of windows update. 
>>
>> I generally totally disable sleep, hibernate and maybe also screen 
>> savers on laptops. If they don't just immediately work perfectly it's 
>> usually a nightmare trying to work out what's wrong with them. Often 
> 
> I guess I got a sample of that. 
> 
> And it seemed to do it again later today, Monday -- had to hold the
> power button down until it turned off -- but since then it's behaved
> itself. 
> 
>> laptops that could handle them on, say, Windows 7 completely fail with, 
>> say, Windows 10.
> 
> I've had no trouble with any of themm and I use them "all the time".
> Except that even though I set the mice to not wake the pc up from sleep,
> sometimes they still do when I accidentally bump one of the mice on my
> desk, but that's small potatoes compare to your complaint.  This new
> win11 is not off to a good start with the confusion it gave me this
> weekend, and it will take several days before I can enable Hibernate and
> test Sleep, but if I have problems I plan to report back. 
> 
> You can redeem your points at the M&H Green Stamps Redemption Center in
> Baltimore.  M-F 9 to 5:30 ET. I'll send address later.  Unfortunately,
> you must redeem them in person, but we have some very nice prizes. Do
> you need a FAX machine? 
> 

But don't your symptoms point to a lack of ACPI support at the current time ?

https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/how-to-check-your-computers-supported-power-features-on-windows-11

   powercfg /availablesleepstates

To hibernate, you need a hiberfile file. In a Command
Prompt window (cmd.exe), you can set the current directory to C:\

C:

cd \

dir /ah                        # Now checking the root of C: drive.

# These would be the kind of files to expect, as hidden ones of note.

    swapfile.sys
    pagefile.sys
    hiberfil.sys        <=== you hibernate in here, and need one to hibernate

Mon, 01/27/2025  06:52 PM      1,073,741,824 pagefile.sys  <=== This is used for swapping, but is hardly used.
Mon, 01/27/2025  06:52 PM         16,777,216 swapfile.sys  <=== This one is specifically for Metro Apps.
Mon, 01/27/2025  06:52 PM     68,719,476,736 hiberfil.sys  <=== I don't have one of these, and made this entry up.
                                                                You can see from the size of it, why I got rid of it, on an SSD.
                                                                Your laptop should have one, as part of power saving in S4 state.
                                                                There is a story behind the size of this file, and the possible values.
*******

There s a "Sleep" tick box and a "Hibernate" tick box here. This is a Win10 picture.

https://media.geeksforgeeks.org/wp-content/uploads/20220625001134/changesettings.jpg

If you didn't have a hiberfil.sys, then this might turn one on.
This won't work if you're out of space on C: .

   (Admin window)

    powercfg /h on

Then try the ticky boxes.

( Picture from:  https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/how-to-enable-hibernate-mode-on-windows-10/  )

It's a lot easier to turn on these features now, than in WinXP,
where we were using "dumppo.exe" utility from MSFT.

Another reason for failure, is on older machines, there is a
BIOS control that enables S3 sleep. And sometimes that power management
setting is not enabled, and needs to be turned on. In WinXP, you
needed to use dumppo, to prepare the OS to sleep. Whereas now
some of that is automated with the tick boxes. As long as the
"dining requirements" are met and the prerequisites are there,
it stands a chance of working.

On newer machines, that setting is removed entirely, and the
machine is basically "ACPI compliant" and S1&S3 is always assumed
to be ON when dealing with those machines.

For laptops with defective ACPI tables, all bets are off, as
we don't know what damage is present there, and then some other
"powercfg.exe" commands can be used to collect a hint of the trouble.
This amounts to bad BIOS/UEFI design (bad coding) in a sense. And the companies
that don't know how to design an ACPI table, you can never ever
expect them to fix these problems. Cluelessness is their middle name.
And a very limited set of laptops, have a Coreboot to replace the
defective materials. it is possible for a home user to improve
the situation, but not many have the skill to do it. This is well past
my pay scale. Don't understand the coding language used for this.

   Paul

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#181770 — Re: My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead. SOLVED

On Mon, 1/27/2025 11:42 PM, Paul wrote:
> On Mon, 1/27/2025 10:55 PM, micky wrote:
> 
> alt.comp.os.windows-11 added, because... micky
> 
>> win11 added because this is really a win11 topic after all. And partly
>> win10.  "After one hour of working fine, new to me refurbished laptop is
>> dead and nothing wakes it up."
>>
>> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 26 Jan 2025 17:06:03 +0000, Brian
>> Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Have you done the usual holding the on button for 15 seconds thing to 
>>> force a complete power down?
>>
>> Well, no, because I thought it *was* off.  The lights I had not noticed,
>> the one on the power key, the one in front that means it's charging, and
>> the lighted keyboard were all off.  No lights were on and the screen was
>> totally dark. 
>>
>> But after trying a few more things this morning (well, really the same
>> things, unplugging and plugging in the charger and pushing Power), I
>> remembered what you said above and by golly, that worked. Maybe I
>> pressed Power again and the first thing I noticed is the keyboard lit
>> up. 7 points for you.  Heck, 500 points.   My next step was to call the
>> renewer!, couldn't call him on the weekend, and now I don't have to do
>> that. 
>>
>> Where did you learn that this could work in this situation? 
>>
>> AFAICT, it had checked for windows updates and of course there were some
>> becuase I hadn't turned it on for 6 weeks, and it had only been on an
>> hour 6 weeks ago.  Saturday night was the last time it checked for
>> updates, but this morning was when they were installed.  A lot of them. 
>>
>> I haven't figured out yet how to enable Hibernate, and when I tried
>> Sleep, it blinked and woke up again each time, so I no longer remember
>> if I just closd the lid or if I tried to turn it off (I think I closed
>> the lid), but somehow it got stopped in the middle of windows update. 
>>>
>>> I generally totally disable sleep, hibernate and maybe also screen 
>>> savers on laptops. If they don't just immediately work perfectly it's 
>>> usually a nightmare trying to work out what's wrong with them. Often 
>>
>> I guess I got a sample of that. 
>>
>> And it seemed to do it again later today, Monday -- had to hold the
>> power button down until it turned off -- but since then it's behaved
>> itself. 
>>
>>> laptops that could handle them on, say, Windows 7 completely fail with, 
>>> say, Windows 10.
>>
>> I've had no trouble with any of themm and I use them "all the time".
>> Except that even though I set the mice to not wake the pc up from sleep,
>> sometimes they still do when I accidentally bump one of the mice on my
>> desk, but that's small potatoes compare to your complaint.  This new
>> win11 is not off to a good start with the confusion it gave me this
>> weekend, and it will take several days before I can enable Hibernate and
>> test Sleep, but if I have problems I plan to report back. 
>>
>> You can redeem your points at the M&H Green Stamps Redemption Center in
>> Baltimore.  M-F 9 to 5:30 ET. I'll send address later.  Unfortunately,
>> you must redeem them in person, but we have some very nice prizes. Do
>> you need a FAX machine? 
>>
> 
> But don't your symptoms point to a lack of ACPI support at the current time ?
> 
> https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/how-to-check-your-computers-supported-power-features-on-windows-11
> 
>    powercfg /availablesleepstates
> 
...
Before someone complains the answer wasn't full enough, here is Part 2.

Originally, only some Surface products experimentally had this alternate
ACPI implementation. Apparently, other OEMs have adopted it. I can find
web pages touting instructions for removing it and going back to the
old way, but messing with ACPI and sleep states, is for people
who need a "fulltime hobby". There are on the order of 200 registry settings
for materials like this, if you want to imagine how much damage you can do.

"Modern Standby" laptop:

   https://www.asus.com/ca-en/support/faq/1035447/

Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.22631.3527]
(c) Microsoft Corporation 2ll rights reserved.

C:\Users\ASUS_>  powercfg /a
The following sleep states are available on this
Standby (SO Low Power Idle) Network Connected      <=== used for sleep (as this state slides from S0..S3 on its own)
Hibernate                                          <=== S4 Hibernate available (missing from Asus article menu items)
Fast Startup

The following sleep states are not available on this system:
Standby (S1)
The system firmware does not support this standby state.
This standby state is disabled when SO low power idle is supported.

Standby (S2)
The system firmware does not support this standby state.
This standby state is disabled when SO low power idle is supported.

Standby (S3)
This standby state is disabled when SO low power idle is supported.

Hybrid Sleep
Standby (S3) is not available.

*******

Dealing with a messed-about system.
Some recipe followed, to screw it up, now being put back (in Modern Standby).
Now, we're into permanent hobby material. Back up your drive before
going along in this hand basket.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/how-do-i-re-enable-my-modern-standby-sleep-mode-s0/1d583cbb-c8d8-4efb-b261-42cc4d1915f9

*******

The person here, might not have had a hiberfil.sys file (it's unlikely it is too small,
usually a size of 0 would be too small :-) ).  In any case, this is not a
user friendly situation, where a device sits in Modern Standby, runs down the
battery, and at 2% battery, it finally tries to hibernate (fails for this user,
and he is dumped into a dirty shutdown instead). This would lead to a lot of
inconvenient charging sessions, when all the user wanted to do is Hibernate
on demand.

https://superuser.com/questions/1230454/windows-shutting-down-rather-than-hibernating-when-battery-level-critical

What a user needs, is an actual "Hibernate" tick box, and it is not clear
that the Modern Standby machine has such a tick box. Even though the
powercfg query says hibernation is supported from an S4 perspective (but
without the response indicating a hiberfil.sys is present).

   Paul

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#181780

micky wrote:
> My new-to-me renewed laptop is dead.

Per a later post you said that you checked the adaptor voltage.
According to the web, the center pin is a digital verification.
The inside of the barrel is +.
The outside of the barrel is -.
Shorting the digital pin to the inside of the barrel may destroy the 
power supply.
(This is similar to my Lenovo's pinout.)

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/442503/what-is-the-polarity-of-this-barrel-plug-with-a-double-circle

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