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How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode

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  How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> - 2025-02-12 05:51 -0800
    Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> - 2025-02-12 06:03 -0800
    Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "Allan Higdon" <allanh@vivaldi.net> - 2025-02-12 08:06 -0600
      Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> - 2025-02-12 06:16 -0800
        Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "Allan Higdon" <allanh@vivaldi.net> - 2025-02-12 08:55 -0600
        Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-16 14:02 +0000
          Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> - 2025-02-16 06:26 -0800
            Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-16 15:36 +0000
              Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-16 19:15 +0000
                Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> - 2025-02-16 13:51 -0800
                  Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-02-16 18:48 -0600
                    Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> - 2025-02-17 05:08 -0800
                      Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-19 01:39 -0500
                    Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-17 15:42 +0000
                Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-02-16 20:48 -0600
                  Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-17 15:42 +0000
                    Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-02-17 12:11 -0600
                      Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-17 18:57 +0000
                        Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-02-18 01:36 -0600
                          Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "Bill Bradshaw" <bradshaw@gci.net> - 2025-02-18 11:14 -0900
                    Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-02-18 00:29 -0600
                      Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Mr Xi Ji Ping <ping@china.cn> - 2025-02-19 03:16 +0000
                      Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-19 04:02 -0500
      Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> - 2025-02-12 16:43 -0500
    Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-02-12 12:44 -0600
      Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "Allan Higdon" <allanh@vivaldi.net> - 2025-02-12 15:25 -0600
    Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-12 19:16 -0500
      Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> - 2025-02-13 05:18 -0800
    Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2025-02-13 03:28 +0000
      Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Uncle Sam <uncle.sam@usa.com> - 2025-02-13 03:58 +0000
        Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> - 2025-02-13 05:27 -0800
      Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-13 03:01 -0500
    Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-02-15 08:48 -0600
      Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-02-15 08:56 -0600
        Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "Allan Higdon" <allanh@vivaldi.net> - 2025-02-16 09:34 -0600
          Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-02-16 12:27 -0600
            Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "Allan Higdon" <allanh@vivaldi.net> - 2025-02-16 15:29 -0600
              Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-02-16 18:45 -0600
                Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-17 16:06 +0000
                  Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-02-17 10:28 -0600
                    Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-17 16:51 +0000
          Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-16 20:01 -0500
      Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-02-15 09:40 -0600
        Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> - 2025-02-16 06:32 -0800
          Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-02-16 12:30 -0600
            Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> - 2025-02-16 13:56 -0800
              Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-02-16 18:46 -0600
                Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> - 2025-02-17 05:33 -0800
                  Re: How to boot into Windows 10 Safe Mode VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-02-17 10:15 -0600

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#182400

On 17 Feb 2025 15:42:31 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:

>Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>> On 16 Feb 2025 19:15:23 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >  Yet another method mentioned by VanguardLH elsewhere in this thread:
>> >
>> >  In a 'Run as administrator' Command Prompt window, run 'bcdedit'
>> >(without options/arguments). That will say 'efi' (ignore case), in
>> >several places, if you have an UEFI system.
>> 
>> Or not. My home-built PC uses UEFI but the output of bcdedit doesn't
>> mention "efi" anywhere.
>
>  Hmmm!? On my (HP) system, the Windows Boot Manager and Windows Boot
>Loader 'path' names end in '.efi'.

My Dell laptop, circa 2012 and running Windows 8.1, does show 'efi' in
both of those path names, so I can see what you're talking about.

However, my desktop PC, built from scratch in about 2018, doesn't have
'efi' in the path name, and in fact, the Windows Boot Manager section of
bcdedit doesn't even include a 'path' line. The Windows Boot Loader
section says "path \WINDOWS\system32\winload.exe".

>  What about Disk Management, does that list an 'EFI' partition?

On the Dell laptop, yes. On the desktop PC, no.

>  N.B. I have only HP systems, so I'd be interested if (some of) these
>things are HP-specific.

I have no idea but thanks for bringing it up.

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#182417

On 18/02/2025 06:29, Char Jackson wrote:
> However, my desktop PC, built from scratch in about 2018, doesn't have
> 'efi' in the path name, and in fact, the Windows Boot Manager section of
> bcdedit doesn't even include a 'path' line. The Windows Boot Loader
> section says "path \WINDOWS\system32\winload.exe".


Try this Link:

<https://i.imgur.com/lGN2fXL.png>

Also check whether you have used MBR or GPT (GUID) for the system in 
question that doesn't have efi partition. I suspect on your new system, 
you have MBR rather than GPT. DELL will always have the correct 
partition table before shipping.

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#182419

On Tue, 2/18/2025 1:29 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
> On 17 Feb 2025 15:42:31 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
> wrote:
> 
>> Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 16 Feb 2025 19:15:23 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Yet another method mentioned by VanguardLH elsewhere in this thread:
>>>>
>>>>  In a 'Run as administrator' Command Prompt window, run 'bcdedit'
>>>> (without options/arguments). That will say 'efi' (ignore case), in
>>>> several places, if you have an UEFI system.
>>>
>>> Or not. My home-built PC uses UEFI but the output of bcdedit doesn't
>>> mention "efi" anywhere.
>>
>>  Hmmm!? On my (HP) system, the Windows Boot Manager and Windows Boot
>> Loader 'path' names end in '.efi'.
> 
> My Dell laptop, circa 2012 and running Windows 8.1, does show 'efi' in
> both of those path names, so I can see what you're talking about.
> 
> However, my desktop PC, built from scratch in about 2018, doesn't have
> 'efi' in the path name, and in fact, the Windows Boot Manager section of
> bcdedit doesn't even include a 'path' line. The Windows Boot Loader
> section says "path \WINDOWS\system32\winload.exe".
> 
>>  What about Disk Management, does that list an 'EFI' partition?
> 
> On the Dell laptop, yes. On the desktop PC, no.
> 
>>  N.B. I have only HP systems, so I'd be interested if (some of) these
>> things are HP-specific.
> 
> I have no idea but thanks for bringing it up.
> 

bcdedit

Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier              {bootmgr}
device                  partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume1
path                    \EFI\MICROSOFT\BOOT\BOOTMGFW.EFI

The \EFI is in the root of the ESP partition, the FAT32 thing.
                     vvvvvvv
     +-----+-----------------------------+-----+--- - -
     | MBR | EFI System Partition (ESP)  | MSR | C:
     +-----+-----------------------------+-----+--- - -

It's pretty hard to get samples of "all possible configurations" for viable OS installations.

*******

On the Test Machine, I have to search around to find a non-GPT setup.

bcdedit

Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier              {bootmgr}
device                  partition=C:
description             Windows Boot Manager

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier              {current}
device                  partition=C:
path                    \WINDOWS\system32\winload.exe    so it jumps to C:\WINDOWS\system32\winload.exe

That is booting the conventional way (CSM), using MBR code detection of Active partition.

     +-----+-----------------------------+--------------------------+ - - -
     | MBR | C:  System, Boot, Active    | Recovery Partition 800MB |
     +-----+-----------------------------+--------------------------+ - - -

   Paul

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#182239

On 2/12/25 09:06 AM, Allan Higdon wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 07:51:24 -0600, John C. <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> I decided that it would be a good idea to know how to do this, so I
>> looked it up and... my God... what an absolute clusterfuck.
>>
>> Gone are the simple days of pressing F8 while starting your computer.
>> This is a history (according to CoPilot) of the process:
>>
>> Windows 95/98/ME:
>>
>>     Press F8: Restart your computer and repeatedly press the F8 key
>> right before the Windows logo appears.
>>
>>     Select Safe Mode: Choose Safe Mode from the boot menu.
>>
>> Windows 2000:
>>
>>     Press F8: Similar to Windows 95/98/ME, restart your computer and
>> press F8 before the Windows logo appears.
>>
>>     Select Safe Mode: Pick Safe Mode from the boot options.
>>
>> Windows XP:
>>
>>     Press F8: Restart and press F8 key before the Windows logo shows up.
>>
>>     Select Safe Mode: Navigate to and select Safe Mode from the Advanced
>> Options menu.
>>
>> Windows Vista and Windows 7:
>>
>>     Press F8: Restart your computer, and before the Windows logo
>> appears, press F8.
>>
>>     Select Safe Mode: Choose Safe Mode from the Advanced Boot Options menu.
>>
>> Windows 8 and 8.1:
>>
>>     Shift + Restart:
>>
>>         Open the Charm Bar with Win + C.
>>
>>         Click on Settings > Power while holding the Shift key, and
>> select Restart.
>>
>>         Navigate to Troubleshoot > Advanced options > Startup Settings.
>>
>>         Click Restart and then choose 4 for Safe Mode or 5 for Safe Mode
>> with Networking.
>>
>> Windows 10:
>>
>>     Shift + Restart:
>>
>>         On the sign-in screen, press and hold the Shift key while
>> selecting Power > Restart.
>>
>>         Navigate to Troubleshoot > Advanced options > Startup Settings.
>>
>>         Click Restart and then choose 4 for Safe Mode or 5 for Safe Mode
>> with Networking.
>>
>>     Settings:
>>
>>         Go to Settings > Update & Security > Recovery.
>>
>>         Under Advanced startup, click Restart now.
>>
>>         Follow the same steps as above.
>>
>>     System Configuration:
>>
>>         Press Win + R, type msconfig, and press Enter.
>>
>>         Go to the Boot tab and check Safe boot.
>>
>>         Click Apply and then OK.
>>
>>         Restart your computer.
>>
>> Windows 11:
>>
>>     Shift + Restart:
>>
>>         On the sign-in screen, press and hold the Shift key while
>> selecting Power > Restart.
>>
>>         Navigate to Troubleshoot > Advanced options > Startup Settings.
>>
>>         Click Restart and then choose 4 for Safe Mode or 5 for Safe Mode
>> with Networking.
>>
>>     Settings:
>>
>>         Go to Settings > System > Recovery.
>>
>>         Under Advanced startup, click Restart now.
>>
>>         Follow the same steps as above.
>> ______________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> Hmmm....
>>
> 
> This how I do it.
> To enable Safe Mode, I use a batch file with these 2 lines.
> 
> bcdedit /set {default} safeboot minimal
> shutdown /r /t 0
> 
> To disable Safe Mode and return to normal boot, I use a batch file with these 2 lines.
> 
> bcdedit /deletevalue {default} safeboot
> shutdown /r /t 0
Great idea if you only have one boot option, but I have 4.   Which become default when you 
delete the safeboot?

-- 
Linux Mint 22.1, Cinnamon 6.4.6,  Kernel 6.8.0-53-generic
Thunderbird 128.7.0esr, Mozilla Firefox 134.0.2
     Alan K.

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#182232

"John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I decided that it would be a good idea to know how to do this, so I
> looked it up and... my God... what an absolute clusterfuck.
> 
> Gone are the simple days of pressing F8 while starting your computer.
> This is a history (according to CoPilot) of the process:
> 
> Windows 95/98/ME:
> 
>     Press F8: Restart your computer and repeatedly press the F8 key
> right before the Windows logo appears.
> 
>     Select Safe Mode: Choose Safe Mode from the boot menu.
> 
> Windows 2000:
> 
>     Press F8: Similar to Windows 95/98/ME, restart your computer and
> press F8 before the Windows logo appears.
> 
>     Select Safe Mode: Pick Safe Mode from the boot options.
> 
> Windows XP:
> 
>     Press F8: Restart and press F8 key before the Windows logo shows up.
> 
>     Select Safe Mode: Navigate to and select Safe Mode from the Advanced
> Options menu.
> 
> Windows Vista and Windows 7:
> 
>     Press F8: Restart your computer, and before the Windows logo
> appears, press F8.
> 
>     Select Safe Mode: Choose Safe Mode from the Advanced Boot Options menu.
> 
> Windows 8 and 8.1:
> 
>     Shift + Restart:
> 
>         Open the Charm Bar with Win + C.
> 
>         Click on Settings > Power while holding the Shift key, and
> select Restart.
> 
>         Navigate to Troubleshoot > Advanced options > Startup Settings.
> 
>         Click Restart and then choose 4 for Safe Mode or 5 for Safe Mode
> with Networking.
> 
> Windows 10:
> 
>     Shift + Restart:
> 
>         On the sign-in screen, press and hold the Shift key while
> selecting Power > Restart.
> 
>         Navigate to Troubleshoot > Advanced options > Startup Settings.
> 
>         Click Restart and then choose 4 for Safe Mode or 5 for Safe Mode
> with Networking.
> 
>     Settings:
> 
>         Go to Settings > Update & Security > Recovery.
> 
>         Under Advanced startup, click Restart now.
> 
>         Follow the same steps as above.
> 
>     System Configuration:
> 
>         Press Win + R, type msconfig, and press Enter.
> 
>         Go to the Boot tab and check Safe boot.
> 
>         Click Apply and then OK.
> 
>         Restart your computer.
> 
> Windows 11:
> 
>     Shift + Restart:
> 
>         On the sign-in screen, press and hold the Shift key while
> selecting Power > Restart.
> 
>         Navigate to Troubleshoot > Advanced options > Startup Settings.
> 
>         Click Restart and then choose 4 for Safe Mode or 5 for Safe Mode
> with Networking.
> 
>     Settings:
> 
>         Go to Settings > System > Recovery.
> 
>         Under Advanced startup, click Restart now.
> 
>         Follow the same steps as above.
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Hmmm....

How to Start Windows 10 in Safe Mode
https://www.minitool.com/data-recovery/how-to-start-windows-10-in-safe-mode-009.html
#4 - Start Windows 10 in Safe Mode While Bootong Through the F8 Key

According to that article, #4 method has you use bcdedit (the boot table
editor) to modify the setup to allow repeatedly hitting F8 on cold boot
to get the recovery menu.

The criteria is you repeatedly hit F8 *before* the Windows boot menu
appears (assuming you have more than one boot entry from which you can
select).  However, you'll probably need to disable Fast Startup to
prevent sliding past this dialog so fast that you'll never see it.
Besides, Fast Startup causes problems with some drivers, hardware
incompatibility (often due to invalid driver state), and often reduces
stability.  Plus, while it makes shorter the bootup time, it makes
longer the shutdown time; however, while users sit at the computer
waiting for bootup, they often shutdown, and leave, without waiting.
Fast Startup is a hybrid hibernate, so you don't get a true cold boot.

Win10/11 How to disable Fast Startup
https://www.asus.com/us/support/faq/1045548/

Why you SHOULD disable fast startup on your computers!
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-disable-windows-10-fast-startup

The BCD (Boot Configuration Data) is a binary database that replaced the
old boot.ini text file you could edit with a text editor even if Windows
didn't boot, but then malware could easily modify it, too.  

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/bcdedit-command-line-options

Allan's suggestion assumes you can successfully load Windows to then run
his batch files to follow with another [re]boot.  Presumably Minitool's
#4 method changes the BCD setup to restore the legacy F8 method, so you
don't have to successfully boot into Windows 10 to then reboot into Safe
Mode.  You cold boot once, not twice (cold boot and warm boot).

No idea if the Minitool tweaks works for Windows 11.  The article is for
Windows 10.

One of the first tweaks I perform after installing Windows 10 is to
disable Fast Startup.  While I already have Fast Startup disabled on my
Win10 setup, I'll wait to see if the #4 method above works to let you
cold boot into Safe Mode using the F8 key.  If you try it, please reply
if it worked for you, or not.  I'm interested since if it works then
I'll use it, too.

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#182236

On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 12:44:28 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:

> One of the first tweaks I perform after installing Windows 10 is to
> disable Fast Startup.  While I already have Fast Startup disabled on my
> Win10 setup, I'll wait to see if the #4 method above works to let you
> cold boot into Safe Mode using the F8 key.  If you try it, please reply
> if it worked for you, or not.  I'm interested since if it works then
> I'll use it, too.
>

Since I always disable Hibernation, you had me wondering about the Fast Startup setting.

"If you disable hibernate, fast startup will also get disabled."
https://www.tenforums.com/general-support/178284-hibernation-still-taking-up-space-after-disabling-post2207770.html?s=c45932903b2b603fd2c57f6762bb2b48#post2207770

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#182241

On Wed, 2/12/2025 8:51 AM, John C. wrote:
> I decided that it would be a good idea to know how to do this, so I
> looked it up and... my God... what an absolute clusterfuck.
> 
> Gone are the simple days of pressing F8 while starting your computer.
> This is a history (according to CoPilot) of the process:
> 
...
> Windows 11:
> 
>     Shift + Restart:
...
> Hmmm....
> 

Is that really necessary ?

Administrator window (Command Prompt only):

   bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True

That changes the menu type from "tile" to "text".

In addition, in text mode, an F8 option is offered.
You just press F8 then, and you are in Safe Mode menu.

I turn off hibernation, to reduce the complexity of using Windows.
This eliminated Fast Boot, and having problems editing things later,
in an offline mode. For example, if a disk is running Tiles and
has no F8, I can use the Troubleshooting part of the installer DVD,
and the command prompt in there will allow me to add:

   bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD  /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True       # assumes there is a C:\boot\BCD file

and then the next boot of the hard drive I just edited,
I get the text menu with the F8 option offered on the screen.

   [Picture]   Now the menu includes an F8 at startup, fallthru after 30 seconds

    https://i.postimg.cc/KYsbFCsC/display-boot-menu-windows-11.gif

   Paul

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#182258

On 25/02/12 04:16 PM, Paul wrote:
> On Wed, 2/12/2025 8:51 AM, John C. wrote:
>> I decided that it would be a good idea to know how to do this, so I
>> looked it up and... my God... what an absolute clusterfuck.
>>
>> Gone are the simple days of pressing F8 while starting your computer.
>> This is a history (according to CoPilot) of the process:
>>
> ...
>> Windows 11:
>>
>>     Shift + Restart:
> ...
>> Hmmm....
>>
> 
> Is that really necessary ?
> 
> Administrator window (Command Prompt only):
> 
>    bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True
> 
> That changes the menu type from "tile" to "text".
> 
> In addition, in text mode, an F8 option is offered.
> You just press F8 then, and you are in Safe Mode menu.
> 
> I turn off hibernation, to reduce the complexity of using Windows.
> This eliminated Fast Boot, and having problems editing things later,
> in an offline mode. For example, if a disk is running Tiles and
> has no F8, I can use the Troubleshooting part of the installer DVD,
> and the command prompt in there will allow me to add:
> 
>    bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD  /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True       # assumes there is a C:\boot\BCD file
> 
> and then the next boot of the hard drive I just edited,
> I get the text menu with the F8 option offered on the screen.
> 
>    [Picture]   Now the menu includes an F8 at startup, fallthru after 30 seconds
> 
>     https://i.postimg.cc/KYsbFCsC/display-boot-menu-windows-11.gif

Thanks, Paul. Yeah, I always turn of hibernation too. Even on laptops.

-- 
John C.

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#182243

Yep. It's annoying. I am trying to get away from Windows to Linux. macOS 
is OK, but Apple also is doing crazy stuff these days. :(


John C. <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I decided that it would be a good idea to know how to do this, so I
> looked it up and... my God... what an absolute clusterfuck.

> Gone are the simple days of pressing F8 while starting your computer.
> This is a history (according to CoPilot) of the process:

> Windows 95/98/ME:

>     Press F8: Restart your computer and repeatedly press the F8 key
> right before the Windows logo appears.

>     Select Safe Mode: Choose Safe Mode from the boot menu.

> Windows 2000:

>     Press F8: Similar to Windows 95/98/ME, restart your computer and
> press F8 before the Windows logo appears.

>     Select Safe Mode: Pick Safe Mode from the boot options.

> Windows XP:

>     Press F8: Restart and press F8 key before the Windows logo shows up.

>     Select Safe Mode: Navigate to and select Safe Mode from the Advanced
> Options menu.

> Windows Vista and Windows 7:

>     Press F8: Restart your computer, and before the Windows logo
> appears, press F8.

>     Select Safe Mode: Choose Safe Mode from the Advanced Boot Options menu.

> Windows 8 and 8.1:

>     Shift + Restart:

>         Open the Charm Bar with Win + C.

>         Click on Settings > Power while holding the Shift key, and
> select Restart.

>         Navigate to Troubleshoot > Advanced options > Startup Settings.

>         Click Restart and then choose 4 for Safe Mode or 5 for Safe Mode
> with Networking.

> Windows 10:

>     Shift + Restart:

>         On the sign-in screen, press and hold the Shift key while
> selecting Power > Restart.

>         Navigate to Troubleshoot > Advanced options > Startup Settings.

>         Click Restart and then choose 4 for Safe Mode or 5 for Safe Mode
> with Networking.

>     Settings:

>         Go to Settings > Update & Security > Recovery.

>         Under Advanced startup, click Restart now.

>         Follow the same steps as above.

>     System Configuration:

>         Press Win + R, type msconfig, and press Enter.

>         Go to the Boot tab and check Safe boot.

>         Click Apply and then OK.

>         Restart your computer.

> Windows 11:

>     Shift + Restart:

>         On the sign-in screen, press and hold the Shift key while
> selecting Power > Restart.

>         Navigate to Troubleshoot > Advanced options > Startup Settings.

>         Click Restart and then choose 4 for Safe Mode or 5 for Safe Mode
> with Networking.

>     Settings:

>         Go to Settings > System > Recovery.

>         Under Advanced startup, click Restart now.

>         Follow the same steps as above.
> ______________________________________________________________________________

> Hmmm....


-- 
"We love because he first loved us." --1 John 4:19. :) Incoming heavy rain storm 2nite on (not Green) Lantern Day. :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
  /\___/\   Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
 / /\ /\ \                      Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o   o| |
   \ _ /
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#182244

On 13/02/2025 03:28, Ant wrote:
> Yep. It's annoying. I am trying to get away from Windows to Linux. macOS
> is OK, but Apple also is doing crazy stuff these days. :(
> 

This is wonderful. Linux has a very easy way to get into safe mode. The 
rest of the time you can watch porn videos and Microsoft won't even know 
what the heck you are doing on Linux.

Why do you have to try? Is it difficult to get away from Windows? John C 
might have a solution for you. He hates Indians and Chinese and I am not 
saying he is racist bigot.

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#182259

Uncle Sam trolled:
> Ant wrote:
>>
>> Yep. It's annoying. I am trying to get away from Windows to Linux. macOS
>> is OK, but Apple also is doing crazy stuff these days. :(
> 
> This is wonderful. Linux has a very easy way to get into safe mode. The 
> rest of the time you can watch porn videos and Microsoft won't even know 
> what the heck you are doing on Linux.
> 
> Why do you have to try? Is it difficult to get away from Windows? John C 
> might have a solution for you. He hates Indians and Chinese and I am not 
> saying he is racist bigot.

Sure you're not. So... playing the "racism" card, eh?

1. how is it that you think that all people from India are the same race?
2. how is it that you think that all people from China are the same race?

If anything, I'm guilty of "countryism".

Otherwise, all I've said is:
1. India has taken over Microsoft. And anybody can easily prove it.
2. Software from the PRC isn't to be trusted because the government of
that country has too many loaded agendas.

Please elaborate, IN DETAIL, how either of those two statements are
"racist" or "bigoted".

And just so you know, I also believe that a lot of the software
originating in the United States isn't to be trusted. For example: the
Tor browser, which I personally believe is a tool of the NSA.

-- 
John C.

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#182253

On Wed, 2/12/2025 10:28 PM, Ant wrote:
> Yep. It's annoying. I am trying to get away from Windows to Linux. macOS 
> is OK, but Apple also is doing crazy stuff these days. :(
> 

What does "trying to get away" mean exactly ?

The web pages tell me you need to shrink C: a bit, and the
space made available, can be used for Linux. Then,
you dual boot. Install Windows first, install Linux second,
for least boot-maintenance.

It's not absolutely essential that a computer be opened
up to prepare for a Linux dual boot.

You can also use virtual machines to run OSes. I have two, ready
to run, on my D: drive right now. That does not require opening
a computer either. It helps to have enough RAM for the number
of OSes you plan on running.

Make a backup before you do your install, some of our friends
here do not recognize what "danger" is, or how to insulate
against "dangerous" activity. While installing Linux software isn't
generally dangerous, I've lost the content of two disks
along the way. For example, before installing a Debian, you
*absolutely* do a backup. The other Linuxes to date, they have
been generally reasonable from a policy perspective. Some
of the Linux installers do things in the wrong order, don't
make the right options available during an install and so on.
You can study the losers, in your VM setup first :-) That's one
of the general rules I have "if you can't behave yourself
in my VM, you don't get to live on my disk drive". I've had
just one Linux OS which crashed on boot in the VM test
(which makes the OS a "total failure" and a waste-of-bytes).

   Paul

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#182308

"John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Gone are the simple days of pressing F8 while starting your computer.

Did you try either Paul's suggestion:

  bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True
  
or mine from the Minitool article, method #4:

  bcdedit /set {default} bootmenupolicy legacy
  
to see if you got the F8 boot-time menu?

Neither displaybootmenu or bootmenupolicy arguments are mentioned in
Microsoft's article on bcdedit at:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/bcdedit-command-line-options

but maybe they are undocumented arguments, or you have to drill down
using "set /? <arg>" to get to the lower options.  The:

bcdedit /?

command shows the command-line syntax for bcdedit.  Since both {bootmgr}
and {default} are the ID args in the above commands, I checked which
where listed using:

bcdedit /? ID

Both the {default} and {bootmgr} identifiers in the above commands are
listed.  Paul's suggestion of modifying the {bootmgr} property in the
BCD table probably applies no matter which BCD entry is selected.
Minitool's suggestion of modifying the {default} entry might only apply
when the default boot entry is selected versus.

bcdedit /? TYPES {bootmgr}

shows the displaybootmenu for a display attribute on the {bootmgr}
object, so Paul's suggestion looks valid.

I didn't drill through all the sublevels of help in bcdedit to find what
options could be set on the {default} object.  However, on some web
searching, I'm wondering if True or Yes should be used in Paul's
suggestion:

  bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True
or
  bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu yes
  
Yes shows the boot menu when the computer starts.  No hides the boot
manager on startup.

bcdedit /? types bootmgr

says the displaybootmenu property is a Boolean which, to me, means you
use a 0 or 1 (false or true), or a False or True value, but, I suppose,
No and Yes would also work for False and True.  If you run without args:

bcdedit

the BCD config data is listed.  For me, none of them show the
displaybootmenu option; however, not all properties are listed, so the
disabled (False) properties are probably not listed in the output.
While msconfig's Boot tab shows some options per boot entry, it has
never shown everything that bcdedit can manage.

There are some GUI editors as an alternative to bcdedit.  Visual BCD is
one, but its home page of boyans.net looks to be abandoned.  Its domain
registration expired in Nov 2029, but the site is nonfunctional.  You
can get it from:

https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/visual_bcd_editor.html

but that is dated 14 years ago.  EasyBCD has been updated more recently
(2018), but is a freemium product (i.e., crippled unless you pay).  It's
web site is still active at:

https://neosmart.net/EasyBCD/

The free version is for personal-use only, and registerware.  I didn't
find a comparison page to show what, if any, features might be missing
in the free version, or if it's just a licensing issue.  I have used
EasyBCD in the past, but too long ago to remember, and still have it in
my lists of downloads (version 2.3 c.2015, but it's now at 2.4 c.2018).
Alas, the screenshots they omit is for the Edit Boot Menu and Advanced
Settings groups, so I cannot tell how well in-depth they cover all the
settings available with bcdedit.

I looked at several Youtube videos on EasyBCD, but didn't any that
delves into Advanced Settings.

https://neosmart.net/wiki/easybcd/basics/advanced-settings/

That doesn't mention the displaybootmenu option.  Under Edit Boot Menu
(where you select a boot entry to edit), there is a "Skip the boot menu"
option, but I don't know that is the same as the displaybootmenu option.

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#182310

I just found:

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/22455-enable-disable-f8-advanced-boot-options-windows-10-a.html

which mentions using Paul's bcdedit command line specifying the bootmgr
object, but uses yes instead of True to enable the boot-time menu.  It
also shows using the bcdedit command line specifying the default object
that the Minitool article suggested.

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#182334

On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 08:56:03 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:

> I just found:
>
> https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/22455-enable-disable-f8-advanced-boot-options-windows-10-a.html
>
> which mentions using Paul's bcdedit command line specifying the bootmgr
> object, but uses yes instead of True to enable the boot-time menu.  It
> also shows using the bcdedit command line specifying the default object
> that the Minitool article suggested.
>

I tried using "yes" and "True", but neither worked for me.
I press F8 repeatedly, but all I see on bootup is "Press ESC for the Startup Menu".

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#182344

Allan Higdon <allanh@vivaldi.net> wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
> 
>> I just found:
>>
>> https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/22455-enable-disable-f8-advanced-boot-options-windows-10-a.html
>>
>> which mentions using Paul's bcdedit command line specifying the
>> bootmgr object, but uses yes instead of True to enable the boot-time
>> menu.  It also shows using the bcdedit command line specifying the
>> default object that the Minitool article suggested.
> 
> I tried using "yes" and "True", but neither worked for me.
> I press F8 repeatedly, but all I see on bootup is "Press ESC for the Startup Menu".

Which bcdedit command did you use?  Presumably since you mention yes or
True as attribute values, you used:

  bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True
  bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu Yes
  
Did you then try the other suggestion?

  bcdedit /set {default} bootmenupolicy legacy
  
After using one of those, run bcdedit (no arguments) to list the
configs.  For the first command (displaybootmenu), you should see one of
the boot entries list displaybootmenu.  Since the command specifies the
{bootmgr} config entry, bcdedit should show:

Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier              {bootmgr}
device                  partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume4
path                    \EFI\MICROSOFT\BOOT\BOOTMGFW.EFI
description             Windows Boot Manager
locale                  en-US
inherit                 {globalsettings}
default                 {current}
resumeobject            {93db0b77-b7b0-11e9-8457-c422263ccb27}
displayorder            {current}
                        {79ec5fd5-9799-11ee-91c7-48f17fd1afaa}
toolsdisplayorder       {memdiag}
timeout                 10
displaybootmenu         Yes

The other parameters may be different for you, but after using bcdedit
to enable the displaybootmenu attribute then it should show up.  Notice
my timeout (to show the boot menu) is 10 seconds before the bootmgr
selects the active (default) boot config.  Make sure your timeout is set
to something that lets you see the boot menu, so it doesn't just flash
past too quickly to see or read.  You can change the timeout with:

  bcdedit /set {bootmgr} timeout 30
  
Mine is 10 seconds (which is actually 7 seconds when measured).  Use
whatever timetout you like for how long you want the boot menu to stay
on the screen before it automatically selects the default boot config
(typically the one with {current} identifier).

Is Fast Startup disabled?  It will be disabled if you already disabled
hibernation mode.  If you kept hibeneration enabled, you need to
separately disable Fast Startup.  To ensure that you are not shutting
down into [hybrid] hibernate mode, run "shutdown /r".

When cold booting, and *before* the OS begins to load (i.e., at the POST
screen), can you hit F5 (or whatever your BIOS recognizes at the POST
screen) to get into the BIOS settings?  With USB-attached keyboards,
I've encountered some setups where the keyboard is dead until the OS
loads.  Whether PS/2 or USB, the LEDs on the keyboard should flash to
show it got a reset signal on a cold boot.

After using bcedit to enable the boot menu, and after a cold boot, what
do you see if you hit Esc as prompted?  What does the "Startup Menu"
look like?  From the article:

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/22455-enable-disable-f8-advanced-boot-options-windows-10-a.html

under the Contents section, the Advanced Startup Options screen should
get replaced with the example screens where you see listed or enumerated
choices which include Safe Mode (no networking), Safe Mode with
Networking, and Safe Mode with Command Prompt.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#182350

On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 12:27:40 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:

> Allan Higdon <allanh@vivaldi.net> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
>>
>>> I just found:
>>>
>>> https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/22455-enable-disable-f8-advanced-boot-options-windows-10-a.html
>>>
>>> which mentions using Paul's bcdedit command line specifying the
>>> bootmgr object, but uses yes instead of True to enable the boot-time
>>> menu.  It also shows using the bcdedit command line specifying the
>>> default object that the Minitool article suggested.
>>
>> I tried using "yes" and "True", but neither worked for me.
>> I press F8 repeatedly, but all I see on bootup is "Press ESC for the Startup Menu".
>
> Which bcdedit command did you use?  Presumably since you mention yes or
> True as attribute values, you used:
>
>   bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True
>   bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu Yes
>

Yes, I tried both of those.
The value for displaybootmenu is still "Yes".


> Did you then try the other suggestion?
>
>   bcdedit /set {default} bootmenupolicy legacy


I copied that from the page you linked to, but it didn't return as "successful" after it was entered.
The line above did work.


> After using one of those, run bcdedit (no arguments) to list the
> configs.  For the first command (displaybootmenu), you should see one of
> the boot entries list displaybootmenu.  Since the command specifies the
> {bootmgr} config entry, bcdedit should show:
>
> Windows Boot Manager
> --------------------
> identifier              {bootmgr}
> device                  partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume4
> path                    \EFI\MICROSOFT\BOOT\BOOTMGFW.EFI
> description             Windows Boot Manager
> locale                  en-US
> inherit                 {globalsettings}
> default                 {current}
> resumeobject            {93db0b77-b7b0-11e9-8457-c422263ccb27}
> displayorder            {current}
>                         {79ec5fd5-9799-11ee-91c7-48f17fd1afaa}
> toolsdisplayorder       {memdiag}
> timeout                 10
> displaybootmenu         Yes
>
> The other parameters may be different for you, but after using bcdedit
> to enable the displaybootmenu attribute then it should show up.  Notice
> my timeout (to show the boot menu) is 10 seconds before the bootmgr
> selects the active (default) boot config.  Make sure your timeout is set
> to something that lets you see the boot menu, so it doesn't just flash
> past too quickly to see or read.  You can change the timeout with:
>
>   bcdedit /set {bootmgr} timeout 30


That was the problem.
For some reason, the value for mine was 0.
I changed it to 15, and pressing F8 does work now.
Thanks...


> Mine is 10 seconds (which is actually 7 seconds when measured).  Use
> whatever timetout you like for how long you want the boot menu to stay
> on the screen before it automatically selects the default boot config
> (typically the one with {current} identifier).
>
> Is Fast Startup disabled?  It will be disabled if you already disabled
> hibernation mode.  If you kept hibeneration enabled, you need to
> separately disable Fast Startup.  To ensure that you are not shutting
> down into [hybrid] hibernate mode, run "shutdown /r".
>
> When cold booting, and *before* the OS begins to load (i.e., at the POST
> screen), can you hit F5 (or whatever your BIOS recognizes at the POST
> screen) to get into the BIOS settings?  With USB-attached keyboards,
> I've encountered some setups where the keyboard is dead until the OS
> loads.  Whether PS/2 or USB, the LEDs on the keyboard should flash to
> show it got a reset signal on a cold boot.
>
> After using bcedit to enable the boot menu, and after a cold boot, what
> do you see if you hit Esc as prompted?  What does the "Startup Menu"
> look like?  From the article:
>
> https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/22455-enable-disable-f8-advanced-boot-options-windows-10-a.html
>
> under the Contents section, the Advanced Startup Options screen should
> get replaced with the example screens where you see listed or enumerated
> choices which include Safe Mode (no networking), Safe Mode with
> Networking, and Safe Mode with Command Prompt.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#182361

Allan Higdon <allanh@vivaldi.net> wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
> 
>> ... my timeout (to show the boot menu) is 10 seconds before the
>> bootmgr selects the active (default) boot config.  Make sure your
>> timeout is set to something that lets you see the boot menu, so it
>> doesn't just flash past too quickly to see or read.  You can change
>> the timeout with:
>>
>>   bcdedit /set {bootmgr} timeout 30
> 
> That was the problem. For some reason, the value for mine was 0. I
> changed it to 15, and pressing F8 does work now.

Another method to change the timeout is to run msconfig, select the Boot
tab, and enter the timeout there.  Whatever you can do, so can a tweaker
or malware.  A value of zero means the user thought they never wanted to
see the boot menu, or something changed it for them.

msconfig also lets you do a reboot into Safe Mode without all the
whoopla of the other manipulations noted by John.  However, you still
need to be booted into Windows to run msconfig to reboot into Safe Mode.
If there is a problem loading Windows, msconfig may not be accessible.

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#182385

VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
[...]

> msconfig also lets you do a reboot into Safe Mode without all the
> whoopla of the other manipulations noted by John.  However, you still
> need to be booted into Windows to run msconfig to reboot into Safe Mode.
> If there is a problem loading Windows, msconfig may not be accessible.

  As I described [1], on an UEFI system there should be no problem to do a
cold boot into Safe mode, because you should be able to do it via the
BIOS-to-UEFI route.

  Why John can't (now: couldn't; he's no longer interested in trying)
get into Safe mode on his non-UEFI system, remains a mystery. I don't
think that Safe mode was ever disabled by default on those BIOS(-only)
systems, but perhaps the timeout was set to zero, making it hard/
impossible to press/detect F8.

[1] Message-ID: <vosulh.5q4.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

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#182389

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
> [...]
> 
>> msconfig also lets you do a reboot into Safe Mode without all the
>> whoopla of the other manipulations noted by John.  However, you still
>> need to be booted into Windows to run msconfig to reboot into Safe Mode.
>> If there is a problem loading Windows, msconfig may not be accessible.
> 
>   As I described [1], on an UEFI system there should be no problem to do a
> cold boot into Safe mode, because you should be able to do it via the
> BIOS-to-UEFI route.
> 
>   Why John can't (now: couldn't; he's no longer interested in trying)
> get into Safe mode on his non-UEFI system, remains a mystery. I don't
> think that Safe mode was ever disabled by default on those BIOS(-only)
> systems, but perhaps the timeout was set to zero, making it hard/
> impossible to press/detect F8.
> 
> [1] Message-ID: <vosulh.5q4.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

That's what Allan reported when he tried using bcedit to enable the
legacy boot menu.  He couldn't see it.  Turns out his timeout was zero.
Once he upped it to 15 seconds, he had plenty of time to see the menu.  

The OP didn't report back if he ever tried enabling the legacy boot
menu.  His problem was with a partially disconnect HDD that caused a
timeout in the POST detect.  Once he reseated the HDD's data cable, his
problem was over, and had no need anymore to get into Safe Mode.
However, if he wants to get into Safe Mode later, he'll have to go
through the hell he noted in his starter post, or maybe remember this
discussion to try using bcdedit.

Not sure why you think there is a mini-OS in the UEFI firmware.  Safe
Mode is not a function of UEFI.  The only trick in UEFI is an entry to
specify an executable file that Windows will run after it loads if it
see the UEFI entry.  It's considered a deeper rootkit.  Some companies
use it to ensure, say, their software inventorying client gets loaded to
monitor what their employees are putting on their workstations, and
enforce only company-authorized software on the company's workstations
(it's their property, not of their employees).  Tracking software can
similarly be specified in the UEFI as to Windows seeing the entry, and
loading it on startup.  There are ways to thwart this UEFI trick, but
I'd have to look it up again.

-----

Ooh, I found my note on the UEFI rootkit.  See below:

A "feature" of UEFI (with Microsoft's involvement) is a program can be
specified in the UEFI to run on Windows startup.  Despite regulating any
startup programs, or scanning for malware, there could sit a call to a
program in the UEFI.  It could, for example, be used for starting
execution of tracking software (how the computer is used), or for
software inventorying on workstations.  I've only seen it used by
companies that wanted to add usage tracking, location, anti-theft, or
inventorying to their workstations.  However, it could also be used by
malware, and I don't know if any AVs check for a program load specified
in the UEFI.  As I recall, some mobos (Lenovo, Gigabyte, ASUS) use this
trick to run services or diagnostics on Windows startup.  The AV should
catch malware for whatever the UEFI program load specifies; that is, the
.exe in UEFI usually calls some other program that runs under Windows.  

It is a "feature" only with UEFI.  When Windows loads, it has a program
(C:\Windows\system32\wpbbin.exe) that runs to determine if the UEFI
specified a start program.  The UEFI start program is in one of the ACPI
tables in the BIOS.  One trick is to rename the loader program in
Windows called the UEFI Bootkit dubbed BlackLotus.

You can Nirsoft's Firmware Tables View to see the ACPI tables in UEFI.
Look for the "Windows Platform Binary Table" (WPBT).  Nirsoft will show
the ACPI table, if it is defined, but won't let you delete it.  When I
found out about this, Nirsoft didn't show a WPBT table, but then I have
many options disabled in the BIOS.  I also don't have the wpbbin.exe
program (that checks the UEFI for an .exe file to load) in my Windows
installation.

Although pundits attempt to tout UEFI, Secure Boot, and other later
security measures as protecting users, there are UEFI Bootkits that
bypass all those measures, even Secure Boot, like BlackLotus.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/03/unkillable-uefi-malware-bypassing-secure-boot-enabled-by-unpatchable-windows-flaw/

Those are different beasts than the UEFI program load specified in an
ACPI table that Windows checks if it is defined, and if found will run
the UEFI-specified program.  I'm noting the UEFI program load on Windows
launch because refurbs often are company workstations that were leased,
and then disposed of.  Companies may employ tracking, location, or
software inventorying that the Windows-loaded UEFI-specified program
will start.  You won't find that method listed in, say, SysInternals'
Autoruns.  Windows loads, checks the UEFI for the bootkit/rootkit
program, and runs that program under Windows.  Since Secure Boot okays
the load of Windows, and since it is a program under Windows that loads
the .exe in the UEFI, Secure Boot won't catch this tactic.

https://eclypsium.com/blog/everyone-gets-a-rootkit/

There are tools to nullify the .exe in the WPBT ACPI table in UEFI by
deleting it from memory before Windows reads the ACPI tables, like:

https://github.com/Jamesits/dropWPBT#from-windows

This removes the WPBT table from system memory, so you have it run as a
startup program (that loads with Windows startup, not until whenever you
log into your Windows account).

For your own computer, you don't want WPBT employed.  WPBT started with
Windows 8.  Probably the easiest way to disable WPBT is to rename,
delete, or move the wpbbin.exe if it exists on your system.  An update
could replace it, so you might want to use Task Scheduler to run a
delete command on every Windows startup.  The Github article talks about
different methods of disabling WPBT, but they're rather complicated
instructions.

-----

However, this rootkit relies on Windows seeing the ACPI table entry
specifying a program to load on startup, and Windows has to be already
loaded to run the program.  The UEFI is not loading an OS.  Safe Mode is
a function of the boot manager of the OS.

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