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Groups > alt.comp.os.windows-10 > #186753 > unrolled thread

Browse at the speed of thought

Started byJai Hind <jai.hind@gmail.com>
First post2025-08-14 00:54 +0000
Last post2025-08-17 01:03 +0800
Articles 20 on this page of 86 — 20 participants

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Contents

  Browse at the speed of thought Jai Hind <jai.hind@gmail.com> - 2025-08-14 00:54 +0000
    Re: Browse at the speed of thought "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> - 2025-08-13 21:46 -0400
      Re: Browse at the speed of thought The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2025-08-13 20:21 -0700
        Re: Browse at the speed of thought "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-14 12:53 +0200
        Re: Browse at the speed of thought Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-08-14 21:48 +1000
          Re: Browse at the speed of thought The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2025-08-14 15:09 -0700
            Re: Browse at the speed of thought Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2025-08-14 15:25 -0700
              Re: Browse at the speed of thought The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2025-08-14 19:43 -0700
            Re: Browse at the speed of thought Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-08-15 21:53 +1000
              Re: Browse at the speed of thought The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2025-08-15 23:22 -0700
                Re: Browse at the speed of thought "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-16 16:02 +0100
                  Re: Browse at the speed of thought Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-16 18:44 -0400
                    mostly OT (includes passing reference to AI): long wave (was: Re: Browse at the speed of thought) "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-17 14:41 +0100
                      Re: Totally OT (includes passing reference to AI): long wave sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-08-17 12:42 -0500
                        Re: Totally OT (includes passing reference to AI): long wave Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-08-17 18:50 +0100
                          Re: Totally OT (includes passing reference to AI): long wave sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-08-17 13:23 -0500
                            Re: Totally OT (includes passing reference to AI): long wave Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-08-17 19:44 +0100
                              Re: Totally OT (includes passing reference to AI): long wave sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-08-17 14:53 -0500
                                Re: Totally OT (includes passing reference to AI): long wave Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-08-18 16:50 +0000
                                  Re: Totally OT (includes passing reference to AI): long wave sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-08-18 13:37 -0500
                          Re: Totally OT (includes passing reference to AI): long wave Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-17 16:23 -0400
                            Re: Totally OT (includes passing reference to AI): long wave Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-08-18 07:01 +0100
                              Re: Totally OT (includes passing reference to AI): long wave sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-08-18 09:08 -0500
                              Re: Totally OT (includes passing reference to AI): long wave The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> - 2025-11-24 18:09 -0800
                        Re: Totally OT (includes passing reference to AI): long wave "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-18 13:18 +0100
                  Re: Browse at the speed of thought The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2025-08-16 17:24 -0700
                    Re: Browse at the speed of thought Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-08-17 08:55 +0100
                      Re: Browse at the speed of thought Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-17 06:48 -0400
                        Re: Browse at the speed of thought Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-08-17 12:00 +0100
                          Re: Browse at the speed of thought "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-17 15:16 +0100
                    Re: Browse at the speed of thought Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-08-17 22:11 +1000
                    Re: Browse at the speed of thought "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-17 15:07 +0100
                      Re: Browse at the speed of thought Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-08-18 21:12 +1000
                  Re: Browse at the speed of thought AI User Here <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-17 00:58 +0000
                    Re: Browse at the speed of thought The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2025-08-16 21:07 -0700
                      Re: Browse at the speed of thought Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-08-17 22:23 +1000
                        Re: Browse at the speed of thought Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-08-17 22:57 +1000
                        Re: Browse at the speed of thought "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-17 15:49 +0100
                          Re: Browse at the speed of thought Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-08-18 21:30 +1000
                            Re: Browse at the speed of thought "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-18 12:54 +0100
                              Re: Browse at the speed of thought Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-08-18 23:00 +1000
                      Re: Browse at the speed of thought "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-17 15:37 +0100
                        Re: Browse at the speed of thought Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-08-18 21:41 +1000
                          Re: Browse at the speed of thought "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-18 13:02 +0100
                            Re: Browse at the speed of thought Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-08-18 13:04 +0100
                              Re: Browse at the speed of thought "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-18 13:22 +0100
                            Re: Browse at the speed of thought Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-08-18 23:10 +1000
                              OT: driving licences (was: Re: Browse at the speed of thought) "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-18 14:34 +0100
                                Re: OT: driving licences Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-08-19 00:38 +1000
                                  Re: OT: driving licences Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> - 2025-08-18 16:55 +0100
                                  Re: OT: driving licences The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> - 2025-10-06 11:58 -0700
                                    Re: OT: driving licences Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-07 22:10 +1100
                                      Re: OT: driving licences "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-07 14:36 +0200
                                        Re: OT: driving licences Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-08 00:00 +1100
                                        Re: OT: driving licences Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-10-07 16:15 +0000
                                          Re: OT: driving licences "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-08 11:14 +0200
                                            Re: OT: driving licences Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-08 22:16 +1100
                                              Re: OT: driving licences "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-25 08:36 +0100
                                                Re: OT: driving licences Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-11-25 21:56 +1100
                                                  Re: OT: driving licences "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-25 12:41 +0100
                                                    Re: OT: driving licences Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-11-25 23:04 +1100
                                                      Re: OT: driving licences "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-25 18:58 +0100
                                                    Re: OT: driving licences "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-11-25 13:49 +0000
                                                      Re: OT: driving licences Tim Slattery <TimSlattery@utexas.edu> - 2025-11-25 10:47 -0500
                                                        Re: OT: driving licences "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-11-25 17:40 +0000
                                                  Re: OT: driving licences Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> - 2025-11-25 13:03 +0000
                                                Re: OT: driving licences Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-11-25 08:22 -0500
                                                  Re: OT: driving licences Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-11-26 20:51 +1100
                                                    Re: OT: driving licences Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-11-26 06:35 -0500
                                                      Re: OT: driving licences Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-11-26 23:14 +1100
                                                        Re: OT: driving licences Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-11-26 13:37 -0500
                                            Re: OT: driving licences Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> - 2025-10-08 17:03 +0100
                                              Re: OT: driving licences Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-10-08 17:07 +0000
                                                Re: OT: driving licences "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-25 08:42 +0100
                                  Re: OT: driving licences The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> - 2025-10-06 12:03 -0700
                    Re: Browse at the speed of thought Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-17 03:42 -0400
                      Re: Browse at the speed of thought sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-08-17 12:28 -0500
                        Re: Browse at the speed of thought Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-17 16:54 -0400
                          Re: Browse at the speed of thought sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-08-20 19:32 -0500
                            Re: Browse at the speed of thought Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-21 03:06 -0400
      Re: Browse at the speed of thought The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> - 2025-11-24 17:12 -0800
    Re: Browse at the speed of thought sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-08-13 22:48 -0500
    Re: Browse at the speed of thought "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2025-08-14 23:26 +0800
      Re: Browse at the speed of thought Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-14 18:53 -0400
        Re: Browse at the speed of thought "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2025-08-15 20:31 +0800
          Re: Browse at the speed of thought "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2025-08-17 01:03 +0800

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#186832

FromDaniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse>
Date2025-08-18 23:00 +1000
Message-ID<107v85k$32fgj$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#186827
On 18/08/2025 9:54 pm, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> On 2025/8/18 12:30:55, Daniel70 wrote:
>> On 18/08/2025 12:49 am, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> 
> []
> 
>>> I do remember slide rules, though I don't _think_ I had one. One thing
>>> they _did_ teach you was the importance of gross magnitude: They would
>>> give you an answer like maybe 3.54, but you had to know whether that
>>> meant 354, 3,450, 34,500, or whatever.
>>
>> If the logarithmic answer was '3.54', the .54 bit told you what the
>> numbers in the answer would and the '3' told you how many positions
>> right you moved the decimal point
>>
>> The .54 bit equals 3.467368504 (base 10 approx) and moving the Decimal
>> point three places to the right gives the answer of 3,467.368504 or
>> there abouts.
> 
> Ah, we're talking at cross purposes. I'm talking about using a slide
> rule to multiply, or divide, two two- or three-digit numbers, and
> getting a two- or three-digit number as the answer: my point was that if
> you use a slide rule at all you use two or three significant figures, so
> throw away any magnitude information - so _had_ to be used to knowing
> roughly what the magnitude of the answer would be. A calculator
> intrinsically has a decimal point, so you tend _not_ to check the gross
> magnitude.
> 
Ah. Right.
-- 
Daniel70

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#186808

From"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
Date2025-08-17 15:37 +0100
Message-ID<107spfa$1n0cg$15@dont-email.me>
In reply to#186794
On 2025/8/17 5:7:56, The Real Bev wrote:

[]

> I use perplexity every day.  I'm not afraid of it.  BUT I see how kids 
> are already dumbing down and limiting themselves.  AI makes it easier. 
> My daughter says her kids got a worse education than she did and that 
> she got a worse one than I did. Humans are lazy and always want to make 
> stuff easier.  It's known as progress.  How do you make somebody do 
> something harder than it has to be just because it's good for them?

that last sentence has gone straight into my quotes file (with
attribution). [By no means the only "Real Bev" entry therein!]

>> Do you remember what people were saying about calculators and adding
>> machines? Now, calculators are part of the school curriculum and adding
>> machines have been replaced by spreadsheet packages.
> 
> BUT what happens when the power goes off?  Maybe for only a few hours, 
> but suddenly I've lost pretty much everything except maybe watering the 
> lawn or doing other yard work.  One switch and we're back 150 years.

Indeed! Even just the loss of internet connection and most of my life is
on pause, let alone power (or water; one's first thought is one can
manage on bottled water - which our water companies supply for any
outage lasting more than a fairly short time; but, that isn't enough for
flushing).

>> When the Coronavirus vaccine became compulsory, people started blaming
>> Bill Gates. This is because he invested billions in producing these
>> vaccines. He has said many times that he wants to give away his wealth
>> in his lifetime. Everyone knows he doesn't work any more. All he does is
>> spend his money, give talks and donate to charities.
> 
> Gates can spend his money however he wants, he's still somebody whose 
> wife dumped him when she found out about Epstein.

I don't know (or want to) his Epstein connections. On the whole, I've
always rather liked him.>
> My point is that we should know how to do as much stuff by ourselves as 
> possible, even if we never have to do it.  I used to fix cars, but not 

Yes, that's more or less mine too. If nothing else, it helps when
negotiating with (e. g. car) mechanics, if you know what they're going
to do, even if you wouldn't do it (because they have the tools and
facilities you don't, or just - increasingly as one gets older! - don't
want to. But could).

> the 88 Cad (inherited) which tried to kill me repeatedly by flooring the 
> accelerator all by itself, and not the 2013 Corolla which has shown no 

Ah yes, if you're used to an automatic, that could indeed be
frightening. (The majority of cars in UK are still manual, and I think
that's preferred, though it's changing - the other day the news said 26%
of new tests are in automatics. [Here, if you pass your test in an
automatic, you're not licenced to drive a manual, though the other way
round is fine.])

> problems at all so far.  But if something goes wrong with the Corolla it 
> better be the disk brakes, because I'm pretty sure I can deal with those.
> 
If it's replacing the caliper pads, same here; if the discs themselves
are damaged (because a piece of gravel got trapped, or I left it too
long to change the pads and their holder rubbed) and need replacing, I'm
less sure. Though I admit these days I'd almost certainly pay someone
else to actually change the pads - but as you say, I know what's
involved. (I currently drive a Skoda - which is in practice a cheap
version of a Volkswagen these days.)
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

tried calling the tinnitus helpline - no answer, just kept ringing

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#186826

FromDaniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse>
Date2025-08-18 21:41 +1000
Message-ID<107v3h3$31ab8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#186808
On 18/08/2025 12:37 am, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> On 2025/8/17 5:7:56, The Real Bev wrote:

<Snip>

> Ah yes, if you're used to an automatic, that could indeed be
> frightening. (The majority of cars in UK are still manual, and I think
> that's preferred, though it's changing - the other day the news said 26%
> of new tests are in automatics. [Here, if you pass your test in an
> automatic, you're not licenced to drive a manual, though the other way
> round is fine.])

In Australia, it used to be if you got your Drivers Licence in an 
Automatic car, you were licenced to drive an Automatic ONLY.

You were not licenced to drive a Manual car until you had a number of 
years driving experience. Your initial (Probationary) Licence was for 
three years (I think), so it may have been once you got your Full 
Licence you were allowed to drive a Manual.
-- 
Daniel70

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#186828

From"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
Date2025-08-18 13:02 +0100
Message-ID<107v4p3$30tiv$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#186826
On 2025/8/18 12:41:31, Daniel70 wrote:
> On 18/08/2025 12:37 am, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> On 2025/8/17 5:7:56, The Real Bev wrote:
> 
> <Snip>
> 
>> Ah yes, if you're used to an automatic, that could indeed be
>> frightening. (The majority of cars in UK are still manual, and I think
>> that's preferred, though it's changing - the other day the news said 26%
>> of new tests are in automatics. [Here, if you pass your test in an
>> automatic, you're not licenced to drive a manual, though the other way
>> round is fine.])
> 
> In Australia, it used to be if you got your Drivers Licence in an 
> Automatic car, you were licenced to drive an Automatic ONLY.

That's how it is here (UK). If you pass on a manual (US: stick shift),
you're allowed to drive manuals _and_ automatics.>
> You were not licenced to drive a Manual car until you had a number of 
> years driving experience. Your initial (Probationary) Licence was for 
> three years (I think), so it may have been once you got your Full 
> Licence you were allowed to drive a Manual.
I'm pretty sure we here have no such timeout - if you passed on an
automatic, you can only drive automatics - period, as the Americans
would say. I don't think we have anything called "initial" or
"probationary" (though we frequently get suggestions that new drivers
_ought_ to be restricted in some way for a while, such as limits on
passengers below a certain age - but nothing's happened there yet). We
do have "privisional", which is for learning, but you have to have
someone with a full licence in the car with you. That lasts a year I
think - though I think can be renewed, how many times I'm not sure.
(Maximum three years total maybe?)
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

There is no honour to be had in not knowing a thing that can be known -
Danny Baker

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#186829

FromAndy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
Date2025-08-18 13:04 +0100
Message-ID<mggj72F99buU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#186828
J. P. Gilliver wrote:

> Daniel70 wrote:
>
>> In Australia, it used to be if you got your Drivers Licence in an
>> Automatic car, you were licenced to drive an Automatic ONLY.
> 
> That's how it is here (UK). If you pass on a manual (US: stick shift),
> you're allowed to drive manuals _and_ automatics.
Learning in an electric vehicle doesn't allow you to drive a manual car ...

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#186831

From"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
Date2025-08-18 13:22 +0100
Message-ID<107v5ue$30tiv$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#186829
On 2025/8/18 13:4:49, Andy Burns wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> 
>> Daniel70 wrote:
>>
>>> In Australia, it used to be if you got your Drivers Licence in an
>>> Automatic car, you were licenced to drive an Automatic ONLY.
>>
>> That's how it is here (UK). If you pass on a manual (US: stick shift),
>> you're allowed to drive manuals _and_ automatics.
> Learning in an electric vehicle doesn't allow you to drive a manual car ...
> 
> 
Hmm, I'd not thought of that! But it makes sense, as electrics are in
effect automatic (don't have a gear lever).

-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

There is no honour to be had in not knowing a thing that can be known
- Danny Baker

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#186833

FromDaniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse>
Date2025-08-18 23:10 +1000
Message-ID<107v8no$32ok3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#186828
On 18/08/2025 10:02 pm, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> On 2025/8/18 12:41:31, Daniel70 wrote:
>> On 18/08/2025 12:37 am, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>> On 2025/8/17 5:7:56, The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>> <Snip>
>>
>>> Ah yes, if you're used to an automatic, that could indeed be
>>> frightening. (The majority of cars in UK are still manual, and I think
>>> that's preferred, though it's changing - the other day the news said 26%
>>> of new tests are in automatics. [Here, if you pass your test in an
>>> automatic, you're not licenced to drive a manual, though the other way
>>> round is fine.])
>>
>> In Australia, it used to be if you got your Drivers Licence in an
>> Automatic car, you were licenced to drive an Automatic ONLY.
> 
> That's how it is here (UK). If you pass on a manual (US: stick shift),
> you're allowed to drive manuals _and_ automatics.>
>> You were not licenced to drive a Manual car until you had a number of
>> years driving experience. Your initial (Probationary) Licence was for
>> three years (I think), so it may have been once you got your Full
>> Licence you were allowed to drive a Manual.
> I'm pretty sure we here have no such timeout - if you passed on an
> automatic, you can only drive automatics - period, as the Americans
> would say. I don't think we have anything called "initial" or
> "probationary" (though we frequently get suggestions that new drivers
> _ought_ to be restricted in some way for a while, such as limits on
> passengers below a certain age - but nothing's happened there yet). We
> do have "privisional", which is for learning, but you have to have
> someone with a full licence in the car with you.

"Learners" 'L' Plates displayed. One learner and one fully qualified 
driver *ONLY* in the car ... no passengers.

> That lasts a year I
> think - though I think can be renewed, how many times I'm not sure.
> (Maximum three years total maybe?)
> 
"Probationary" 'P' plates displayed. Zero Alcohol .... and I think there 
might be a passenger number limit as well.
-- 
Daniel70

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#186834 — OT: driving licences (was: Re: Browse at the speed of thought)

From"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
Date2025-08-18 14:34 +0100
SubjectOT: driving licences (was: Re: Browse at the speed of thought)
Message-ID<107va4i$32vn8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#186833
On 2025/8/18 14:10:23, Daniel70 wrote:
> On 18/08/2025 10:02 pm, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> On 2025/8/18 12:41:31, Daniel70 wrote:

[]

>>> In Australia, it used to be if you got your Drivers Licence in an
>>> Automatic car, you were licenced to drive an Automatic ONLY.
>>
>> That's how it is here (UK). If you pass on a manual (US: stick shift),
>> you're allowed to drive manuals _and_ automatics.>
>>> You were not licenced to drive a Manual car until you had a number of
>>> years driving experience. Your initial (Probationary) Licence was for
>>> three years (I think), so it may have been once you got your Full
>>> Licence you were allowed to drive a Manual.
>> I'm pretty sure we here have no such timeout - if you passed on an
>> automatic, you can only drive automatics - period, as the Americans
>> would say.
 I don't think we have anything called "initial" or
>> "probationary" (though we frequently get suggestions that new drivers
>> _ought_ to be restricted in some way for a while, such as limits on
>> passengers below a certain age - but nothing's happened there yet). We
>> do have "privisional", which is for learning, but you have to have
>> someone with a full licence in the car with you.
> 
> "Learners" 'L' Plates displayed. One learner and one fully qualified 
> driver *ONLY* in the car ... no passengers.
> 
>> That lasts a year I
>> think - though I think can be renewed, how many times I'm not sure.
>> (Maximum three years total maybe?)
>>
> "Probationary" 'P' plates displayed. Zero Alcohol .... and I think there 
> might be a passenger number limit as well.

Just to clarify - you're talking about .au there. In UK, the only
officially-recognised markings are the L plates though you can _get_ P
plates; L plates are for a learner driver (and I'm pretty sure _must_ be
displayed), who will have a "provisional" licence and must be
accompanied by a full licence-holder (though I think _can_ have
passengers). We don't - yet - have a "newly-passed" classification,
though there are urgings that we should, with limits on passenger below
(e. g.) 18 or 21 or ... (to discourage "urging" and/or distraction);
tighter alcohol limits have also been suggested.

Our "provisional" - learner, _not_ probationary - licence lasts a year I
think; as I said, I think it can be renewed, but possibly not indefinitely.
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

We're done for the night. I'm off for a cup of tea and some crystal meth.
Only joking. I've had quite enough tea for one day.
- Victoria Coren Mitchell, quoted in RT 2017/10/7013

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#186841 — Re: OT: driving licences

FromDaniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse>
Date2025-08-19 00:38 +1000
SubjectRe: OT: driving licences
Message-ID<107vdte$34g93$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#186834
On 18/08/2025 11:34 pm, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> On 2025/8/18 14:10:23, Daniel70 wrote:
>> On 18/08/2025 10:02 pm, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>> On 2025/8/18 12:41:31, Daniel70 wrote:
> 
> []
> 
>>>> In Australia, it used to be if you got your Drivers Licence in an
>>>> Automatic car, you were licenced to drive an Automatic ONLY.
>>>
>>> That's how it is here (UK). If you pass on a manual (US: stick shift),
>>> you're allowed to drive manuals _and_ automatics.>
>>>> You were not licenced to drive a Manual car until you had a number of
>>>> years driving experience. Your initial (Probationary) Licence was for
>>>> three years (I think), so it may have been once you got your Full
>>>> Licence you were allowed to drive a Manual.
>>> I'm pretty sure we here have no such timeout - if you passed on an
>>> automatic, you can only drive automatics - period, as the Americans
>>> would say.
>   I don't think we have anything called "initial" or
>>> "probationary" (though we frequently get suggestions that new drivers
>>> _ought_ to be restricted in some way for a while, such as limits on
>>> passengers below a certain age - but nothing's happened there yet). We
>>> do have "privisional", which is for learning, but you have to have
>>> someone with a full licence in the car with you.
>>
>> "Learners" 'L' Plates displayed. One learner and one fully qualified
>> driver *ONLY* in the car ... no passengers.
>>
>>> That lasts a year I
>>> think - though I think can be renewed, how many times I'm not sure.
>>> (Maximum three years total maybe?)
>>>
>> "Probationary" 'P' plates displayed. Zero Alcohol .... and I think there
>> might be a passenger number limit as well.
> 
> Just to clarify - you're talking about .au there. In UK, the only
> officially-recognised markings are the L plates though you can _get_ P
> plates; L plates are for a learner driver (and I'm pretty sure _must_ be
> displayed), who will have a "provisional" licence and must be
> accompanied by a full licence-holder (though I think _can_ have
> passengers). We don't - yet - have a "newly-passed" classification,
> though there are urgings that we should, with limits on passenger below
> (e. g.) 18 or 21 or ... (to discourage "urging" and/or distraction);
> tighter alcohol limits have also been suggested.
> 
> Our "provisional" - learner, _not_ probationary - licence lasts a year I
> think; as I said, I think it can be renewed, but possibly not indefinitely.
> 
And talking about STUPIDITY!! ..... When I got my Probationary Licence 
(so allowed to drive by myself), Probationary Drivers HAD to display a 
'P' plate, front and rear of car, AND HAD AN 80KM/H (50MPH) MAXIMUM 
SPEED LIMIT.

At one stage I was driving (at 80km/h) on a major, but single lane each 
way, thoroughfare .... so had a growing line of vehicles behind me. So, 
rather than causing the other drivers getting frustrated and, maybe, 
trying dangerous overtaking maneuvers, I sped up to the "Open" 
speed-limit of 100km/h .... and, sure enough, the third or fourth car 
behind me was an unmarked Cop car!! I didn't hold that Licence long!
-- 
Daniel70

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#186843 — Re: OT: driving licences

FromPeter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam>
Date2025-08-18 16:55 +0100
SubjectRe: OT: driving licences
Message-ID<2pi6akhrrh6fc8rdkf6bf7sbkm1bkmlleo@4ax.com>
In reply to#186841
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 00:38:46 +1000, Daniel70
<daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:


>At one stage I was driving (at 80km/h) on a major, but single lane each 
>way, thoroughfare .... so had a growing line of vehicles behind me. So, 
>rather than causing the other drivers getting frustrated and, maybe, 
>trying dangerous overtaking maneuvers, I sped up to the "Open" 
>speed-limit of 100km/h .... and, sure enough, the third or fourth car 
>behind me was an unmarked Cop car!! I didn't hold that Licence long!

I think more than a few have been caught out by bothering about what
was going on behind them. Around 20 years ago someone I knew, now
deceased, was caught going through red traffic lights. His excuse,
that he thought the car behind him might noot stop, didn't wash. 

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#188017 — Re: OT: driving licences

FromThe Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
Date2025-10-06 11:58 -0700
SubjectRe: OT: driving licences
Message-ID<9h38ekl4f04i1i8qhl2s6hikf12geofi3v@4ax.com>
In reply to#186841
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 00:38:46 +1000, Daniel70
<daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:

>And talking about STUPIDITY!! ..... When I got my Probationary Licence 
>(so allowed to drive by myself), Probationary Drivers HAD to display a 
>'P' plate, front and rear of car, AND HAD AN 80KM/H (50MPH) MAXIMUM 
>SPEED LIMIT.

In these parts they have an "L" and a "N" card that you were required
to display - "L" meant "learner" meaning you had to have a licenced
driver in the passenger seat while "N" is what you got after
successfully doing your road test and had to display for your first
two years.

The weekend before my kids did their road tests I took each of them
for a drive covering everything within 2 miles of the motor vehicle
office from which they'd be doing their tests.

I did that because I didn't want them to have the fate of an employee
of mine who had on her first road test done a spotless test until when
toodling along just below 30 mph she encountered a corner where they
had a stop sign which couldn't be seen as the householder on the
corner had an unpruned tree which had overgrown and blocked the view
of the stop sign until she got within 10' which was too short a
distance to stop in time. (She passed easily on her second test but
that cost an additional $35 for the second test)

On my drive by I pointed out each stop sign and playground zone sign
where they would have to either stop or slow below 30 mph. All three
of them passed with flying colors. 

(My eldest actually told the examiner before leaving the examination
parking lot "given the construction zone signs around here I don't see
how we can legally exit this parking lot - what would you suggest we
do?" and he decided then and there unless she did something awful she
was passing her test - 1/2 hour later she was all smiles)

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#188038 — Re: OT: driving licences

FromDaniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org>
Date2025-10-07 22:10 +1100
SubjectRe: OT: driving licences
Message-ID<10c2sg5$tebe$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#188017
On 7/10/2025 5:58 am, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 00:38:46 +1000, Daniel70
> <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:
> 
>> And talking about STUPIDITY!! ..... When I got my Probationary Licence
>> (so allowed to drive by myself), Probationary Drivers HAD to display a
>> 'P' plate, front and rear of car, AND HAD AN 80KM/H (50MPH) MAXIMUM
>> SPEED LIMIT.
> 
> In these parts they have an "L" and a "N" card that you were required
> to display - "L" meant "learner" meaning you had to have a licenced
> driver in the passenger seat while "N" is what you got after
> successfully doing your road test and had to display for your first
> two years.

Similar here in Victoria, Australia. From age 17 years, you can get your 
'L' (Learner) plates (Black 'L' on a Yellow background) which entitles 
you to drive when accompanied by a fully licenced, *SOBER* , driver. I'm 
not sure if they are allowed to carry any other passengers.

When you pass your Drivers Test (You, your licenced driver plus Test 
official), you get your 'P' (Probationary) Plates (Red 'P' on White 
background) that you have to display whilst driving for three years, I 
think.
-- 
Daniel70

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#188040 — Re: OT: driving licences

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2025-10-07 14:36 +0200
SubjectRe: OT: driving licences
Message-ID<l2efrlxjce.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#188038
On 2025-10-07 13:10, Daniel70 wrote:
> On 7/10/2025 5:58 am, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 00:38:46 +1000, Daniel70
>> <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:
>>
>>> And talking about STUPIDITY!! ..... When I got my Probationary Licence
>>> (so allowed to drive by myself), Probationary Drivers HAD to display a
>>> 'P' plate, front and rear of car, AND HAD AN 80KM/H (50MPH) MAXIMUM
>>> SPEED LIMIT.
>>
>> In these parts they have an "L" and a "N" card that you were required
>> to display - "L" meant "learner" meaning you had to have a licenced
>> driver in the passenger seat while "N" is what you got after
>> successfully doing your road test and had to display for your first
>> two years.
> 
> Similar here in Victoria, Australia. From age 17 years, you can get your 
> 'L' (Learner) plates (Black 'L' on a Yellow background) which entitles 
> you to drive when accompanied by a fully licenced, *SOBER* , driver. I'm 
> not sure if they are allowed to carry any other passengers.
> 
> When you pass your Drivers Test (You, your licenced driver plus Test 
> official), you get your 'P' (Probationary) Plates (Red 'P' on White 
> background) that you have to display whilst driving for three years, I 
> think.

Here (Spain) the L is used both for learning and during the first year 
after passing the test.

However, during learning they are using a special "driving school" car, 
which has also the school advertising on the roof besides the L. After 
passing the exam, and obtaining the license, they have to put a green L 
sign behind the rear side glass.

Novel drivers are not obligated to drive accompanied.
And learning has to be with an authorized teacher.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#188041 — Re: OT: driving licences

FromDaniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org>
Date2025-10-08 00:00 +1100
SubjectRe: OT: driving licences
Message-ID<10c32tk$v2dk$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#188040
On 7/10/2025 11:36 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-10-07 13:10, Daniel70 wrote:
>> On 7/10/2025 5:58 am, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 00:38:46 +1000, Daniel70
>>> <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And talking about STUPIDITY!! ..... When I got my Probationary Licence
>>>> (so allowed to drive by myself), Probationary Drivers HAD to display a
>>>> 'P' plate, front and rear of car, AND HAD AN 80KM/H (50MPH) MAXIMUM
>>>> SPEED LIMIT.
>>>
>>> In these parts they have an "L" and a "N" card that you were required
>>> to display - "L" meant "learner" meaning you had to have a licenced
>>> driver in the passenger seat while "N" is what you got after
>>> successfully doing your road test and had to display for your first
>>> two years.
>>
>> Similar here in Victoria, Australia. From age 17 years, you can get 
>> your 'L' (Learner) plates (Black 'L' on a Yellow background) which 
>> entitles you to drive when accompanied by a fully licenced, *SOBER* , 
>> driver. I'm not sure if they are allowed to carry any other passengers.
>>
>> When you pass your Drivers Test (You, your licenced driver plus Test 
>> official), you get your 'P' (Probationary) Plates (Red 'P' on White 
>> background) that you have to display whilst driving for three years, I 
>> think.
> 
> Here (Spain) the L is used both for learning and during the first year 
> after passing the test.
> 
> However, during learning they are using a special "driving school" car, 

Here in Victoria, Mum, Dad, Brother, Sister, can take you for your 
Driving Lesson as long as they, too, are fully licenced.

I think most people do get Driving School lessons for at least some of 
the time .... and, speaking of Time, here as a 17yo, you have to have at 
least 120 hours of practice before attempting your Driving Test.

> which has also the school advertising on the roof besides the L. After 
> passing the exam, and obtaining the license, they have to put a green L 
> sign behind the rear side glass.
> 
> Novel drivers are not obligated to drive accompanied.
> And learning has to be with an authorized teacher.
> 
-- 
Daniel70

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#188043 — Re: OT: driving licences

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-10-07 16:15 +0000
SubjectRe: OT: driving licences
Message-ID<10c3ebt$129ds$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#188040
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2025-10-07 13:10, Daniel70 wrote:
>> On 7/10/2025 5:58 am, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 00:38:46 +1000, Daniel70
>>> <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> And talking about STUPIDITY!! ..... When I got my Probationary Licence
>>>> (so allowed to drive by myself), Probationary Drivers HAD to display a
>>>> 'P' plate, front and rear of car, AND HAD AN 80KM/H (50MPH) MAXIMUM
>>>> SPEED LIMIT.
>>> 
>>> In these parts they have an "L" and a "N" card that you were required
>>> to display - "L" meant "learner" meaning you had to have a licenced
>>> driver in the passenger seat while "N" is what you got after
>>> successfully doing your road test and had to display for your first
>>> two years.
>> 
>> Similar here in Victoria, Australia. From age 17 years, you can get your 
>> 'L' (Learner) plates (Black 'L' on a Yellow background) which entitles 
>> you to drive when accompanied by a fully licenced, *SOBER* , driver. I'm 
>> not sure if they are allowed to carry any other passengers.
>> 
>> When you pass your Drivers Test (You, your licenced driver plus Test 
>> official), you get your 'P' (Probationary) Plates (Red 'P' on White 
>> background) that you have to display whilst driving for three years, I 
>> think.
> 
> Here (Spain) the L is used both for learning and during the first year 
> after passing the test.
> 
> However, during learning they are using a special "driving school" car, 
> which has also the school advertising on the roof besides the L. After 
> passing the exam, and obtaining the license, they have to put a green L 
> sign behind the rear side glass.

Sounds similar to the french system; you can only learn through a driving
school. Then display an "A" for three years after you pass plus you have
specific speed limits. Although, I don't know how well this is followed as
you almost never see these stickers on cars. 

> Novel drivers are not obligated to drive accompanied.
> And learning has to be with an authorized teacher.

In the UK, anyone can accompany a learner driver as long as they are over
21 and have had a licence for at least three years. You need to have "L"
plates on the car. A learner can pass the tests having never received a
formal lesson. 

Once passed you can drive just like anyone else, but will lose your licence
after only six penalty points (rather than 12) within the first two years.
You then have to resit your complete test to get a new licence. 

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#188074 — Re: OT: driving licences

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2025-10-08 11:14 +0200
SubjectRe: OT: driving licences
Message-ID<7lmhrlxe7e.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#188043
On 2025-10-07 18:15, Chris wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2025-10-07 13:10, Daniel70 wrote:
>>> On 7/10/2025 5:58 am, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 00:38:46 +1000, Daniel70
>>>> <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And talking about STUPIDITY!! ..... When I got my Probationary Licence
>>>>> (so allowed to drive by myself), Probationary Drivers HAD to display a
>>>>> 'P' plate, front and rear of car, AND HAD AN 80KM/H (50MPH) MAXIMUM
>>>>> SPEED LIMIT.
>>>>
>>>> In these parts they have an "L" and a "N" card that you were required
>>>> to display - "L" meant "learner" meaning you had to have a licenced
>>>> driver in the passenger seat while "N" is what you got after
>>>> successfully doing your road test and had to display for your first
>>>> two years.
>>>
>>> Similar here in Victoria, Australia. From age 17 years, you can get your
>>> 'L' (Learner) plates (Black 'L' on a Yellow background) which entitles
>>> you to drive when accompanied by a fully licenced, *SOBER* , driver. I'm
>>> not sure if they are allowed to carry any other passengers.
>>>
>>> When you pass your Drivers Test (You, your licenced driver plus Test
>>> official), you get your 'P' (Probationary) Plates (Red 'P' on White
>>> background) that you have to display whilst driving for three years, I
>>> think.
>>
>> Here (Spain) the L is used both for learning and during the first year
>> after passing the test.
>>
>> However, during learning they are using a special "driving school" car,
>> which has also the school advertising on the roof besides the L. After
>> passing the exam, and obtaining the license, they have to put a green L
>> sign behind the rear side glass.
> 
> Sounds similar to the french system; you can only learn through a driving
> school. Then display an "A" for three years after you pass plus you have
> specific speed limits. Although, I don't know how well this is followed as
> you almost never see these stickers on cars.

I forgot to mention that all driving school cars have double controls. I 
mean, the instructor has at least pedals, so instant brake in emergency. 
Or acceleration.

And the exam is done in the same type of car, probably the same physical 
car. The double pedal has a signal of some sort, so that the examiner, 
sitting in the back, knows instantly of the instructor intervention and 
fails the exam.

A relatively recent modification is that there is an specific license 
for automated shift cars. But a person with such a license is forbidden 
from driving a standard sift/gear car.

> 
>> Novel drivers are not obligated to drive accompanied.
>> And learning has to be with an authorized teacher.
> 
> In the UK, anyone can accompany a learner driver as long as they are over
> 21 and have had a licence for at least three years. You need to have "L"
> plates on the car. A learner can pass the tests having never received a
> formal lesson.
> 
> Once passed you can drive just like anyone else, but will lose your licence
> after only six penalty points (rather than 12) within the first two years.
> You then have to resit your complete test to get a new licence.

Something like that in Spain, too.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#188089 — Re: OT: driving licences

FromDaniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org>
Date2025-10-08 22:16 +1100
SubjectRe: OT: driving licences
Message-ID<10c5h68$1i4ag$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#188074
On 8/10/2025 8:14 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-10-07 18:15, Chris wrote:
>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2025-10-07 13:10, Daniel70 wrote:
>>>> On 7/10/2025 5:58 am, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 00:38:46 +1000, Daniel70 
>>>>> <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> And talking about STUPIDITY!! ..... When I got my
>>>>>> Probationary Licence (so allowed to drive by myself),
>>>>>> Probationary Drivers HAD to display a 'P' plate, front and
>>>>>> rear of car, AND HAD AN 80KM/H (50MPH) MAXIMUM SPEED
>>>>>> LIMIT.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In these parts they have an "L" and a "N" card that you were
>>>>> required to display - "L" meant "learner" meaning you had to
>>>>> have a licenced driver in the passenger seat while "N" is
>>>>> what you got after successfully doing your road test and had
>>>>> to display for your first two years.
>>>> 
>>>> Similar here in Victoria, Australia. From age 17 years, you can
>>>> get your 'L' (Learner) plates (Black 'L' on a Yellow
>>>> background) which entitles you to drive when accompanied by a
>>>> fully licenced, *SOBER* , driver. I'm not sure if they are
>>>> allowed to carry any other passengers.
>>>> 
>>>> When you pass your Drivers Test (You, your licenced driver plus
>>>> Test official), you get your 'P' (Probationary) Plates (Red 'P'
>>>> on White background) that you have to display whilst driving
>>>> for three years, I think.
>>> 
>>> Here (Spain) the L is used both for learning and during the first
>>> year after passing the test.
>>> 
>>> However, during learning they are using a special "driving
>>> school" car, which has also the school advertising on the roof
>>> besides the L. After passing the exam, and obtaining the license,
>>> they have to put a green L sign behind the rear side glass.
>> 
>> Sounds similar to the french system; you can only learn through a
>> driving school. Then display an "A" for three years after you pass
>> plus you have specific speed limits. Although, I don't know how
>> well this is followed as you almost never see these stickers on
>> cars.
> 
> I forgot to mention that all driving school cars have double
> controls. I mean, the instructor has at least pedals, so instant
> brake in emergency. Or acceleration.
> 
> And the exam is done in the same type of car, probably the same
> physical car. The double pedal has a signal of some sort, so that the
> examiner, sitting in the back, knows instantly of the instructor
> intervention and fails the exam.
> 
> A relatively recent modification is that there is an specific license
> for automated shift cars. But a person with such a license is
> forbidden from driving a standard sift/gear car.

Similarly, here in Victoria, if you take your TEST in an Automatic car,
you are licenced to drive an Automatic car .... at least initially.

Our licences are for Ten years. I think, at the end of that ten years,
you are deemed to be competent to drive either a Manual or Automatic
car, so can drive either.
-- 
Daniel70

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#189891 — Re: OT: driving licences

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2025-11-25 08:36 +0100
SubjectRe: OT: driving licences
Message-ID<gs2gvlxlse.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#188089
On 2025-10-08 13:16, Daniel70 wrote:
> On 8/10/2025 8:14 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2025-10-07 18:15, Chris wrote:
>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2025-10-07 13:10, Daniel70 wrote:
>>>>> On 7/10/2025 5:58 am, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 00:38:46 +1000, Daniel70 
>>>>>> <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And talking about STUPIDITY!! ..... When I got my
>>>>>>> Probationary Licence (so allowed to drive by myself),
>>>>>>> Probationary Drivers HAD to display a 'P' plate, front and
>>>>>>> rear of car, AND HAD AN 80KM/H (50MPH) MAXIMUM SPEED
>>>>>>> LIMIT.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In these parts they have an "L" and a "N" card that you were
>>>>>> required to display - "L" meant "learner" meaning you had to
>>>>>> have a licenced driver in the passenger seat while "N" is
>>>>>> what you got after successfully doing your road test and had
>>>>>> to display for your first two years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Similar here in Victoria, Australia. From age 17 years, you can
>>>>> get your 'L' (Learner) plates (Black 'L' on a Yellow
>>>>> background) which entitles you to drive when accompanied by a
>>>>> fully licenced, *SOBER* , driver. I'm not sure if they are
>>>>> allowed to carry any other passengers.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you pass your Drivers Test (You, your licenced driver plus
>>>>> Test official), you get your 'P' (Probationary) Plates (Red 'P'
>>>>> on White background) that you have to display whilst driving
>>>>> for three years, I think.
>>>>
>>>> Here (Spain) the L is used both for learning and during the first
>>>> year after passing the test.
>>>>
>>>> However, during learning they are using a special "driving
>>>> school" car, which has also the school advertising on the roof
>>>> besides the L. After passing the exam, and obtaining the license,
>>>> they have to put a green L sign behind the rear side glass.
>>>
>>> Sounds similar to the french system; you can only learn through a
>>> driving school. Then display an "A" for three years after you pass
>>> plus you have specific speed limits. Although, I don't know how
>>> well this is followed as you almost never see these stickers on
>>> cars.
>>
>> I forgot to mention that all driving school cars have double
>> controls. I mean, the instructor has at least pedals, so instant
>> brake in emergency. Or acceleration.
>>
>> And the exam is done in the same type of car, probably the same
>> physical car. The double pedal has a signal of some sort, so that the
>> examiner, sitting in the back, knows instantly of the instructor
>> intervention and fails the exam.
>>
>> A relatively recent modification is that there is an specific license
>> for automated shift cars. But a person with such a license is
>> forbidden from driving a standard sift/gear car.
> 
> Similarly, here in Victoria, if you take your TEST in an Automatic car,
> you are licenced to drive an Automatic car .... at least initially.
> 
> Our licences are for Ten years. I think, at the end of that ten years,
> you are deemed to be competent to drive either a Manual or Automatic
> car, so can drive either.

They expect you to magically learn? :-)

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#189896 — Re: OT: driving licences

FromDaniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org>
Date2025-11-25 21:56 +1100
SubjectRe: OT: driving licences
Message-ID<10g421j$3b4ck$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#189891
On 25/11/2025 6:36 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-10-08 13:16, Daniel70 wrote:

<Snip>

>> Similarly, here in Victoria, if you take your TEST in an Automatic car,
>> you are licenced to drive an Automatic car .... at least initially.
>>
>> Our licences are for Ten years. I think, at the end of that ten years,
>> you are deemed to be competent to drive either a Manual or Automatic
>> car, so can drive either.
> 
> They expect you to magically learn? :-)
> 
Well, experience HAS to count for something, surely. ;-)
-- 
Daniel70

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#189897 — Re: OT: driving licences

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2025-11-25 12:41 +0100
SubjectRe: OT: driving licences
Message-ID<38hgvlx5bj.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#189896
On 2025-11-25 11:56, Daniel70 wrote:
> On 25/11/2025 6:36 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2025-10-08 13:16, Daniel70 wrote:
> 
> <Snip>
> 
>>> Similarly, here in Victoria, if you take your TEST in an Automatic car,
>>> you are licenced to drive an Automatic car .... at least initially.
>>>
>>> Our licences are for Ten years. I think, at the end of that ten years,
>>> you are deemed to be competent to drive either a Manual or Automatic
>>> car, so can drive either.
>>
>> They expect you to magically learn? :-)
>>
> Well, experience HAS to count for something, surely. ;-)

Sure, but the smooth handling of the gears and clutch is not an 
automatic skill. And Spain is a very hilly country. Imagine parking on a 
steep slope.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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