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Groups > alt.comp.os.windows-10 > #181339

Re: 0patch for W10 end-of-life

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On Tue, 1/14/2025 2:56 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
> T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/13/25 8:09 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
>>> T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.pcmag.com/explainers/0patch-explained-how-it-works-and-what-it-means-for-the-end-of-windows
>>>
>>> https://0patch.com/
>>>
>>> "$28 per year per device for its Pro service".  To clarify this isn't
>>> free.  Also, only covers the most critical security patches, not all
>>> vulnerabilities.  The cost is trivial for a business scenario, but users
>>> will probably decide to let the security patches slide until they get
>>> their next prebuilt with whatever OS is preinstalled.
>>>
>>> https://0patch.com/pricing.html
>>>
>>> There is a free version, but that only works on a version of Windows
>>> while it is still supported by Microsoft.  Once Microsoft drops support
>>> for a version, this free version ceases to function, and you have to
>>> purchase it.
>>>
>>> Also, unlike patches from Microsoft that replace files (and why
>>> sometimes a reboot is required to replace inuse system files), 0patch
>>> does not alter any files.  Instead if modifies the memory image of the
>>> executable files.  Everytime you boot, its agent has to let Windows
>>> load, and then modify the memory image.
>>>
>>> "0patch does not replace executable files or modify them in any way. It
>>> corrects them only in memory, which can be done without relaunching
>>> them."
>>>
>>> Hmm, I thought Windows had protections against such in-memory
>>> manipulation.  If their "agent" doesn't load, you're back to a pre-patch
>>> scenario.  It needs to phone home to check if there are new
>>> [micro]patches.  Also, since their agent modifies the memory image of
>>> executables, any backups you save will be on the files themselves, not
>>> on the modified in-memory image of them.  So, you won't be backing up a
>>> micropatched version of the OS, just the OS pre-memory alteration.  If
>>> you restore the OS from backups, you'll need their agent to redeploy the
>>> in-memory modifications.  I don't know how they handle when you restore
>>> to a prior state of the OS for which their later micropatches may not be
>>> appropriate.
>>>
>>> Arcos Security is headquartered in Maribor, Slovenia, an EU and Nato
>>> member.  The contact page just lists e-mail addresses, but their company
>>> profile page also lists a phone number, and address.  From Google Maps'
>>> street view on the address, I couldn't see where was Arcos Security
>>> (Arco Varnost in Solvenian), but I couldn't see all the way around the
>>> building, and they may be renting an office and don't post a sign on the
>>> building.
>>>
>>> https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/acros-security
>>>
>>> Not much info there.  They state 1 to 10 employees, but I've found that
>>> count to be inaccurate.
>>
>> If there is some reason blocking yo from upgrading
>> to W11, just get yourself a decent anti virus.  Not
>> McAfee or Norton.
> 
> Upgrading from 10 to 11: no bang for the buck.  Simply plastering on a
> different desktop GUI is insufficient cause for me to change.  Yes,
> there are improvements in 11, but not enough for me to bother with the
> change, and yet another learning curve.
> 
> AI is the new infatuation which I detest.  Windows 12 will get even
> worse.  Plus, to support the higher level of processing needed for the
> increased AI will require getting a new box with an NPU with a minimum
> of 40 TOPS.  With Windows 11, we saw TPM forced on us.  With Windows 12,
> another new hardware (NPU) is required.  Microsoft is just not going in
> a direction I care for.  Require more hardware for unneeded functions.
> 
>> I also do not know if 0patch would qualify W10 as
>> a supported OS under Payment Card Industry (PCI)
>> guideline.
>>
>> And if you can or are just curious, download a Fedora
>> Live USB and see if it is worth the transition.  I
>> recommend KDE, MATE, and Xfce, but NOT gnome as it
>> is too weird.
>>
>> https://fedoraproject.org/spins
> 
> Fedora is better for Windows converts than, say, Mint?
> 

No.

Let's try an example. You put Fedora and windows 11 on the same
disk. Windows 11 updates some boot materials. Grub is damaged.
Fedora won't boot. Now, go Google your ass off and what
do you notice ? "There is no escape".

On Linux Mint, I get a copy of the Rescue CD (currently based
on some Ubuntu variant for the disc), and the Rescue CD puts
grub back after it chroots in. People also try chrooting in
with Fedora, and it doesn't work. There is some grub-mkconfig
issue and some kind of messing around, which apparently noobs
cannot manage.

Sure, Fedora is fun to play with. For about ten minutes.
Can I shoot video of the fucking screen ? No! (rpm-fusion
not available for 41, so I can't get simplescreenrecorder,
and FFMPEG won't work). The gnome screenshot tool sucks.
The OS is running Wayland, which is part of the problem.

So yes, I have it loaded. But I'm not really in control of
it, and if something creaks and breaks, I won't be able to fix it.

Fedora is more of a Level 39 Wizard OS. The Wizards love it.

*******

If you look at the Linux map

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions#/media/File:Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg

the Linux Mint is on this branch...

   Debian --- Ubuntu --- LinuxMint                       .deb

fedora is RedHat and RedHat is owned by IBM now.

   RedHat (RHEL) ---- Fedora                             .rpm

Some companies, when they claim "we are Linux compatible",
when you check further, they are only compatible with
Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL). Similarly, if you were
logging in some where, and you inquired of tech support
whether they handled Linux users, you might get a similarly
deceptive answer, where at first "yes, we handle Linux" and
then "what version of RHEL are you running?".

There is a difference between the general "open ecosystem",
and the fixated individuals. The ones who believe there is
only RedHat and all the rest are invisible.

For a person with some ratty old Windows box, I recommend
Linux Mint 21.3 at the moment. It is kernel 5.15 and seems to
support old hardware pretty well. A box from 2008-2023 is
likely to come up OK. If you use Linux Mint 22. that might
work for a year 2021-2024 machine, or roughly a Win11 kind
of machine maybe. I don't think the graphics card coverage
is as good.

The following is just to demonstrate that the releases
are out there, if you need an older one.

https://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/linuxmint/stable/21.3/
    linuxmint-21.3-cinnamon-64bit.iso     09-Jan-2024 12:59   3G   <=== a range of moderately old machines

https://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/linuxmint/stable/22/
    linuxmint-22-cinnamon-64bit.iso       21-Jul-2024 12:46   3G   <=== newer (w11-compat) machines maybe

Fedora 41 is running newer kernels, like LM22.

   Paul

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Thread

0patch for W10 end-of-life T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-13 17:42 -0800
  Re: 0patch for W10 end-of-life VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-13 22:09 -0600
    Re: 0patch for W10 end-of-life T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-13 21:53 -0800
      Re: 0patch for W10 end-of-life VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-14 01:56 -0600
        Re: 0patch for W10 end-of-life Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-14 06:48 -0500
          Re: 0patch for W10 end-of-life VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-14 11:36 -0600
        Re: 0patch for W10 end-of-life T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-15 09:36 -0800
    Re: 0patch for W10 end-of-life ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ  <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-01-14 04:06 -0700
      Re: 0patch for W10 end-of-life VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-01-14 12:08 -0600

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