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Groups > alt.atheism > #2114633 > unrolled thread
| Started by | viva padrepio <vivapadrepio@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-05-27 13:24 -0700 |
| Last post | 2016-06-06 17:13 +1000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 101 — 12 participants |
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Air America! viva padrepio <vivapadrepio@aol.com> - 2016-05-27 13:24 -0700
Re: Air America! hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-05-27 19:51 -0700
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-05-27 22:06 -0500
Re: Air America! Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 21:13 -0700
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-03 15:54 +1000
Re: Air America! rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com - 2016-06-07 15:28 -0700
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-08 11:35 +1000
Re: Air America! rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com - 2016-06-08 11:23 -0700
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-09 09:58 +1000
Re: Air America! Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-06-03 05:16 -0700
Re: Air America! Kurt Kurt <passerby31416@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 19:41 -0700
Re: Air America! rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com - 2016-06-07 15:38 -0700
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-03 07:32 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-01 05:35 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-01 20:30 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-01 06:38 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-01 20:42 +1000
Re: Air America! hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-06-01 05:51 -0700
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-01 09:17 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-01 15:39 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-01 18:10 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-01 19:00 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-01 20:05 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-02 10:54 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 01:39 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-02 07:23 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 08:40 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-02 08:44 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 11:05 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-02 14:55 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 16:44 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-02 18:04 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-03 04:50 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-03 07:42 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-03 10:40 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-03 15:37 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-03 17:53 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-04 10:59 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 03:49 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-03 20:55 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 03:54 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-04 06:53 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 09:11 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-04 12:38 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 14:31 -0400
Re: Air America! John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2016-06-04 21:41 +0100
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-05 11:56 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-05 04:09 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-05 19:12 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-05 10:18 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-06 10:15 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-06 02:01 -0400
Re: Air America! rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com - 2016-06-07 15:42 -0700
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-08 11:38 +1000
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-05 21:28 -0500
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-06 14:19 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-06 02:08 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-06 17:21 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-06 04:32 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-07 09:44 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-06 23:08 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-06 08:02 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-06 14:14 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-06 21:10 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-06 23:11 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-07 17:13 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-07 18:22 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-03 10:28 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-03 04:55 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-04 10:52 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 04:00 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-05 11:54 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-05 04:13 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-01 20:58 -0500
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-02 12:25 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 01:43 -0400
Re: Air America! rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com - 2016-06-07 15:23 -0700
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 01:41 -0400
Re: Air America! Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> - 2016-06-02 07:20 -0500
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 08:42 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-02 10:36 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-02 01:48 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-03 10:49 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-03 04:57 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-04 10:44 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-04 04:02 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-05 11:46 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-05 04:15 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-05 19:17 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-05 10:23 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-06 10:20 +1000
Re: Air America! Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-06-06 02:13 -0400
Re: Air America! John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2016-06-06 10:32 +0100
Re: Air America! Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-06-06 04:00 -0700
Re: Air America! John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2016-06-06 15:53 +0100
Re: Air America! Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-06-06 00:04 -0400
Re: Air America! Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-06-05 23:56 -0500
Re: Air America! Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-06-06 01:00 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-06 15:17 +1000
Re: Air America! Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-06-06 01:45 -0400
Re: Air America! "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-06-06 17:13 +1000
Page 4 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 Next page →
| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-06 23:08 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <kheclbp450sovhk0mrqe9uhncl4nebbo33@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2121121 |
On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 09:44:42 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in alt.atheism with message-id <drmg73FjfchU1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >On 06/06/2016 18:32, Attila wrote: >> On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 17:21:01 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in >> alt.atheism with message-id <drkmikF7trdU1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >> >>> On 06/06/2016 16:08, Attila wrote: >>>> On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 21:28:59 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>> <XnsA61EDAB682400noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>> news:8276lbp0cevc1n5kjrkq4na9b4814uf3qs@4ax.com: >>>>> >>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You don't need to produce an SSI card to >>>>>>> buy a roll of stamps or pay your water bill. >>>>>>> Just try requiring it and see what happens. >>>>>> >>>>>> You need ID and/or your 'taxpayer ID" (SSN) to open a bank account, >>>>>> see a doctor, or apply for credit. And usually to sign up for >>>>>> utilities. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> None of those require proof of citizenship. >>>>> Americans would not put up with dollar coin or >>>>> $2 bill, they are certainly not going to put up >>>>> with proving their nationality wherever they go. >>>> >>>> They need a taxpayer ID, and if such and ID was required it would be >>>> used. Just as a drivers license is used now. >>>> >>>> No ID, no activity whatever it is. >>> >>> So, tell us: how do you feel about your government knowing exactly and >>> at all times what you do, where you do it, when you do it, with whom you >>> do it? >> >> I don't like it but I see no alternative. Much of that can be done >> now. > >So you want to combat one evil by introducing a far more insidious >solution? That's like letting loose a rattlesnake in your home when you >have a rat problem. More opinion. I see it as a necessity. >>> >>>>>>> How do you stop people from sending money abroad? >>>>>> >>>>>> Prevent the services such as Western Union from doing so, and stop >>>>>> banks from allowing individuals to open accounts in other countries or >>>>>> making deposits to such accounts. >>>>>> >>>>>> It would be easy to track and block any electronic transfers by >>>>>> individuals out of the country. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If it was so easy it would have been long >>>>> before now. Fact is money has to cross borders >>>>> by the billions every minute. Demanding that >>>>> every sender prove their nationality is silly. >>>> >>>> Not really. Computers can do more every day. >>>> >>>> You might be amazed to know what is possible. >>> >>> What is possible does not equate to what is feasible. >>> It certainly does not equate to what is practical. >>> Nor indeed that it is in any way cost-effective. >>> >>> And absolutely not that it is desirable. >> >> That is a matter of opinion. >> >>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> Show us the downside to Reagan legalizing >>>>> millions of immigrants. Did the stock market >>>>> crash, did jobs disappear, did Americans go >>>>> hungry? >>>> >>>> The downside was letting millions of people get away with breaking the >>>> law and rewarding them for doing so. it encouraged millions more to >>>> do the same thing. >>> >>> If it were that attractive, you wouldn't have 12 million undocumented >>> aliens in the country but 112 million. >> >> But we currently have 12 million too many. They need to be removed >> and prevented from reentry. > >Aside from the logistical implausibility of deporting such large >numbers, what is your answer to the inevitable upheaval south of the >border? Please don't kid yourself that this will not have an impact on >the US. Let them worry about it. They certainly don't worry about us. > >More importantly, what do you expect will happen when those 12 million >suddenly disappear form the labour pool? How happy do you think >Americans will be with the full-blown recession that will follow? > > There will be no recession. -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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| From | Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-06 08:02 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <XnsA61F52043A22noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> |
| In reply to | #2120694 |
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in
news:jh4alb9djlj4c720b9n18a6n8vbuc6p3kr@4ax.com:
> On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 21:28:59 -0500, Mitchell Holman
> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <XnsA61EDAB682400noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote:
>
>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in
>>news:8276lbp0cevc1n5kjrkq4na9b4814uf3qs@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 12:38:24 -0500, Mitchell Holman
>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>> <XnsA61D80C187F35noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Americans will never stand for it.
>>>>>
>>>>> You might be surprised. We are close now with SS cards and driver's
>>>>> licenses. It is a necessity today.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You don't need to produce an SSI card to
>>>>buy a roll of stamps or pay your water bill.
>>>>Just try requiring it and see what happens.
>>>
>>> You need ID and/or your 'taxpayer ID" (SSN) to open a bank account,
>>> see a doctor, or apply for credit. And usually to sign up for
>>> utilities.
>>
>>
>> None of those require proof of citizenship.
>>Americans would not put up with dollar coin or
>>$2 bill, they are certainly not going to put up
>>with proving their nationality wherever they go.
>
> They need a taxpayer ID, and if such and ID was required it would be
> used. Just as a drivers license is used now.
>
> No ID, no activity whatever it is.
>
Americans will not stand for having to prove
their nationality everytime they buy or sell.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Not many would last long enough to be interested in either
the
>>>>post
>>>>>>>>>>> office or the DMV. Especially if sending money out of the
>>>>country
>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>>>>> any way required such ID.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Corporations send billions of dollars out
>>>>>>>>>>of the country every day. Why should people
>>>>>>>>>>be barred from doing it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Corporations do it for business reasons. This is a necessary
>>part
>>>>of
>>>>>>>>> international trade and multi-national economic activity.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is not true for individuals, and frequently the sender is
>>here
>>>>>>>>> illegally.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If someone wants to send money to their relatives
>>>>>>>>in Ireland or Japan - or Mexico - that is their option,
>>>>>>>>no?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As long as they are here legally and the amount should be limited
>>to
>>>>>>> insure they are not acting as agents for others. Records of such
>>>>>>> activity should be kept.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Records are already being kept of money transfers.
>>>>>
>>>>> These transfers are the reason many illegals are here and should be
>>>>> stopped on that basis alone.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How do you stop people from sending money abroad?
>>>
>>> Prevent the services such as Western Union from doing so, and stop
>>> banks from allowing individuals to open accounts in other countries
or
>>> making deposits to such accounts.
>>>
>>> It would be easy to track and block any electronic transfers by
>>> individuals out of the country.
>>
>>
>> If it was so easy it would have been long
>>before now. Fact is money has to cross borders
>>by the billions every minute. Demanding that
>>every sender prove their nationality is silly.
>
> Not really. Computers can do more every day.
>
> You might be amazed to know what is possible.
If it was possible it would have been done by now.
>>>>>>>>Alabama Illegal Immigrant Crackdown Destroys Farm Business
>>>>>>>>July 2012
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Sunday, the Associated Press reported worker shortages
>>>>>>>>have prompted some Alabama farmers who grow labor-intensive
>>>>>>>>produce to plant less, rather than have crops rot in the
>>>>>>>>fields again this year. Few locals will perform the grueling
>>>>>>>>work of picking crops, and farmers stuck in a agricultural
>>>>>>>>system built on illegal labor are struggling to find
>>>>>>>>replacements before their produce rots.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Alabama’s situation is not unique. Georgia passed a similar
>>>>>>>>immigration law in 2011. When undocumented workers fled,
>>>>>>>>farmers lost around 40% of their workers and $140 million
>>>>>>>>worth of blueberries, melons, onions, and other crops due
>>>>>>>>to labor shortages. This year Georgia farmers again fear
>>>>>>>>they will be short on workers to pick the crops, and many
>>>>>>>>have scaled back production or stopped planting altogether.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>http://tinyurl.com/ckusuge
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There will be an adjustment period.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Americans don't want adjustment periods,
>>>>>>they want clean hotel rooms and fresh vegetables
>>>>>>and mowed lawns and fixed potholes, and so far
>>>>>>only illegals are willing to do those jobs.
>>>>>
>>>>> When illegals are gone another solution will be found. It always
is.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What solution is that?
>>>
>>> Automation, and other labor sources. Perhaps more legal immigration
>>> if needed.
>>
>>
>> Is automation going to clean your hotel
>>room and patch your roof and mow your yard?
>
> Who knows? Robotics are expanding every day. Even cars are going to
> drive themselves.
No robot is going clean your hotel room or
change your bedban or fix your roof. We need
cheap labor. We have always needed cheap labor.
>>>>>>Illegal immigrants benefit the U.S. economy
>>>>>>Aug 2014
>>>>>>
>>>>>>According to the Pew Research Hispanic Trends
>>>>>>Project, there were 8.4 million unauthorized
>>>>>>immigrants employed in the U.S.; representing
>>>>>>5.2 percent of the U.S. labor force (an increase
>>>>>>from 3.8 percent in 2000). Their importance was
>>>>>>highlighted in a report by Texas Comptroller
>>>>>>Susan Combs that stated, “Without the undocumented
>>>>>>population, Texas’ work force would decrease by
>>>>>>6.3 percent” and Texas’ gross state product would
>>>>>>decrease by 2.1 percent. Furthermore, certain
>>>>>>segments of the U.S. economy, like agriculture,
>>>>>>are entirely dependent upon illegal immigrants.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-
illegal-
>>>>>>immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "entirely dependent on illegal immigrants", indeed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Again I totally disagree. We should not be dependent in any way
upon
>>>>> illegal activity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then we should do it the Reagan way and
>>>>legalize them.
>>>
>>> I opposed that, knew it would not work (it didn't) and oppose it now.
>>
>>
>> Show us the downside to Reagan legalizing
>>millions of immigrants. Did the stock market
>>crash, did jobs disappear, did Americans go
>>hungry?
>
> The downside was letting millions of people get away with breaking the
> law and rewarding them for doing so.
The "new Americans" were still the laboring poor,
they still do the crap jobs Americans won't touch, the
economy still benefits from them, AND we saved money
by not deporting them.
The fruits of our labor absurdity
May 25, 2010
There was a moment when they first started
calling this the “Great Recession,” in 2008,
that Steve Appel thought this might be the
time.
Americans might come back to working on the farm.
"It’s just common sense, with the depression and
high unemployment and what not, that there ought
to be local folks looking to come take some of
these jobs," says Appel, 58, a wheat farmer in
the Palouse in Eastern Washington.
Nope. It hasn’t happened. Farm jobs are going
unfilled to such a degree that now a huge fruit
orchard in Okanogan County, desperate for someone
to pick cherries and apples this summer, has turned
to flying in hundreds of workers from … Jamaica.
That’s right. From a Caribbean island more than
3,000 miles away.
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/the-fruits-of-our-labor-
absurdity/
http://tinyurl.com/nuqlfxu
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| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-06 14:14 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <a4fblb5vdh6s2ldj2q57s8596bq2flt6v3@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2120789 |
On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 08:02:42 -0500, Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id <XnsA61F52043A22noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >news:jh4alb9djlj4c720b9n18a6n8vbuc6p3kr@4ax.com: > >> On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 21:28:59 -0500, Mitchell Holman >> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >> <XnsA61EDAB682400noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >> >>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>news:8276lbp0cevc1n5kjrkq4na9b4814uf3qs@4ax.com: >>> >>>> On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 12:38:24 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>> <XnsA61D80C187F35noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Americans will never stand for it. >>>>>> >>>>>> You might be surprised. We are close now with SS cards and driver's >>>>>> licenses. It is a necessity today. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You don't need to produce an SSI card to >>>>>buy a roll of stamps or pay your water bill. >>>>>Just try requiring it and see what happens. >>>> >>>> You need ID and/or your 'taxpayer ID" (SSN) to open a bank account, >>>> see a doctor, or apply for credit. And usually to sign up for >>>> utilities. >>> >>> >>> None of those require proof of citizenship. >>>Americans would not put up with dollar coin or >>>$2 bill, they are certainly not going to put up >>>with proving their nationality wherever they go. >> >> They need a taxpayer ID, and if such and ID was required it would be >> used. Just as a drivers license is used now. >> >> No ID, no activity whatever it is. >> > > > Americans will not stand for having to prove >their nationality everytime they buy or sell. It would not be necessary or every transaction. Basically the same things that require ID now. > >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Not many would last long enough to be interested in either >the >>>>>post >>>>>>>>>>>> office or the DMV. Especially if sending money out of the >>>>>country >>>>>>>in >>>>>>>>>>>> any way required such ID. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Corporations send billions of dollars out >>>>>>>>>>>of the country every day. Why should people >>>>>>>>>>>be barred from doing it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Corporations do it for business reasons. This is a necessary >>>part >>>>>of >>>>>>>>>> international trade and multi-national economic activity. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is not true for individuals, and frequently the sender is >>>here >>>>>>>>>> illegally. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If someone wants to send money to their relatives >>>>>>>>>in Ireland or Japan - or Mexico - that is their option, >>>>>>>>>no? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As long as they are here legally and the amount should be limited >>>to >>>>>>>> insure they are not acting as agents for others. Records of such >>>>>>>> activity should be kept. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Records are already being kept of money transfers. >>>>>> >>>>>> These transfers are the reason many illegals are here and should be >>>>>> stopped on that basis alone. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> How do you stop people from sending money abroad? >>>> >>>> Prevent the services such as Western Union from doing so, and stop >>>> banks from allowing individuals to open accounts in other countries >or >>>> making deposits to such accounts. >>>> >>>> It would be easy to track and block any electronic transfers by >>>> individuals out of the country. >>> >>> >>> If it was so easy it would have been long >>>before now. Fact is money has to cross borders >>>by the billions every minute. Demanding that >>>every sender prove their nationality is silly. >> >> Not really. Computers can do more every day. >> >> You might be amazed to know what is possible. > > > If it was possible it would have been done by now. There has been no requirement to do so. > > > >>>>>>>>>Alabama Illegal Immigrant Crackdown Destroys Farm Business >>>>>>>>>July 2012 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On Sunday, the Associated Press reported worker shortages >>>>>>>>>have prompted some Alabama farmers who grow labor-intensive >>>>>>>>>produce to plant less, rather than have crops rot in the >>>>>>>>>fields again this year. Few locals will perform the grueling >>>>>>>>>work of picking crops, and farmers stuck in a agricultural >>>>>>>>>system built on illegal labor are struggling to find >>>>>>>>>replacements before their produce rots. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Alabama’s situation is not unique. Georgia passed a similar >>>>>>>>>immigration law in 2011. When undocumented workers fled, >>>>>>>>>farmers lost around 40% of their workers and $140 million >>>>>>>>>worth of blueberries, melons, onions, and other crops due >>>>>>>>>to labor shortages. This year Georgia farmers again fear >>>>>>>>>they will be short on workers to pick the crops, and many >>>>>>>>>have scaled back production or stopped planting altogether. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>http://tinyurl.com/ckusuge >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There will be an adjustment period. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Americans don't want adjustment periods, >>>>>>>they want clean hotel rooms and fresh vegetables >>>>>>>and mowed lawns and fixed potholes, and so far >>>>>>>only illegals are willing to do those jobs. >>>>>> >>>>>> When illegals are gone another solution will be found. It always >is. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What solution is that? >>>> >>>> Automation, and other labor sources. Perhaps more legal immigration >>>> if needed. >>> >>> >>> Is automation going to clean your hotel >>>room and patch your roof and mow your yard? >> >> Who knows? Robotics are expanding every day. Even cars are going to >> drive themselves. > > > No robot is going clean your hotel room or >change your bedban or fix your roof. We need >cheap labor. We have always needed cheap labor. But not illegal labor. > >>>>>>>Illegal immigrants benefit the U.S. economy >>>>>>>Aug 2014 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>According to the Pew Research Hispanic Trends >>>>>>>Project, there were 8.4 million unauthorized >>>>>>>immigrants employed in the U.S.; representing >>>>>>>5.2 percent of the U.S. labor force (an increase >>>>>>>from 3.8 percent in 2000). Their importance was >>>>>>>highlighted in a report by Texas Comptroller >>>>>>>Susan Combs that stated, “Without the undocumented >>>>>>>population, Texas’ work force would decrease by >>>>>>>6.3 percent” and Texas’ gross state product would >>>>>>>decrease by 2.1 percent. Furthermore, certain >>>>>>>segments of the U.S. economy, like agriculture, >>>>>>>are entirely dependent upon illegal immigrants. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984- >illegal- >>>>>>>immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "entirely dependent on illegal immigrants", indeed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Again I totally disagree. We should not be dependent in any way >upon >>>>>> illegal activity. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Then we should do it the Reagan way and >>>>>legalize them. >>>> >>>> I opposed that, knew it would not work (it didn't) and oppose it now. >>> >>> >>> Show us the downside to Reagan legalizing >>>millions of immigrants. Did the stock market >>>crash, did jobs disappear, did Americans go >>>hungry? >> >> The downside was letting millions of people get away with breaking the >> law and rewarding them for doing so. > > > The "new Americans" were still the laboring poor, >they still do the crap jobs Americans won't touch, the >economy still benefits from them, AND we saved money >by not deporting them. We would have saved more by preventing them from entering in the first place. And from staying here when their time ran out. > >The fruits of our labor absurdity > May 25, 2010 > >There was a moment when they first started >calling this the “Great Recession,” in 2008, >that Steve Appel thought this might be the >time. > >Americans might come back to working on the farm. > >"It’s just common sense, with the depression and >high unemployment and what not, that there ought >to be local folks looking to come take some of >these jobs," says Appel, 58, a wheat farmer in >the Palouse in Eastern Washington. > >Nope. It hasn’t happened. Farm jobs are going >unfilled to such a degree that now a huge fruit >orchard in Okanogan County, desperate for someone >to pick cherries and apples this summer, has turned >to flying in hundreds of workers from … Jamaica. > >That’s right. From a Caribbean island more than >3,000 miles away. > >http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/the-fruits-of-our-labor- >absurdity/ >http://tinyurl.com/nuqlfxu > > > -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-06 21:10 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <XnsA61FD79E4A434noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> |
| In reply to | #2120916 |
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in
news:a4fblb5vdh6s2ldj2q57s8596bq2flt6v3@4ax.com:
> On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 08:02:42 -0500, Mitchell Holman
> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <XnsA61F52043A22noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote:
>
>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in
>>news:jh4alb9djlj4c720b9n18a6n8vbuc6p3kr@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 21:28:59 -0500, Mitchell Holman
>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>> <XnsA61EDAB682400noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in
>>>>news:8276lbp0cevc1n5kjrkq4na9b4814uf3qs@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 12:38:24 -0500, Mitchell Holman
>>>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>> <XnsA61D80C187F35noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Americans will never stand for it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You might be surprised. We are close now with SS cards and
>>>>>>> driver's licenses. It is a necessity today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't need to produce an SSI card to
>>>>>>buy a roll of stamps or pay your water bill.
>>>>>>Just try requiring it and see what happens.
>>>>>
>>>>> You need ID and/or your 'taxpayer ID" (SSN) to open a bank
>>>>> account, see a doctor, or apply for credit. And usually to sign
>>>>> up for utilities.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> None of those require proof of citizenship.
>>>>Americans would not put up with dollar coin or
>>>>$2 bill, they are certainly not going to put up
>>>>with proving their nationality wherever they go.
>>>
>>> They need a taxpayer ID, and if such and ID was required it would be
>>> used. Just as a drivers license is used now.
>>>
>>> No ID, no activity whatever it is.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Americans will not stand for having to prove
>>their nationality everytime they buy or sell.
>
> It would not be necessary or every transaction. Basically the same
> things that require ID now.
No one needs to prove citizenship to buy
a tolltag or buy stamps or get a library card.
Nor should they have to.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not many would last long enough to be interested in either
>>the
>>>>>>post
>>>>>>>>>>>>> office or the DMV. Especially if sending money out of the
>>>>>>country
>>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> any way required such ID.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Corporations send billions of dollars out
>>>>>>>>>>>>of the country every day. Why should people
>>>>>>>>>>>>be barred from doing it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Corporations do it for business reasons. This is a
>>>>>>>>>>> necessary
>>>>part
>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>>>> international trade and multi-national economic activity.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is not true for individuals, and frequently the sender
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>here
>>>>>>>>>>> illegally.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If someone wants to send money to their relatives
>>>>>>>>>>in Ireland or Japan - or Mexico - that is their option,
>>>>>>>>>>no?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As long as they are here legally and the amount should be
>>>>>>>>> limited
>>>>to
>>>>>>>>> insure they are not acting as agents for others. Records of
>>>>>>>>> such activity should be kept.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Records are already being kept of money transfers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These transfers are the reason many illegals are here and should
>>>>>>> be stopped on that basis alone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How do you stop people from sending money abroad?
>>>>>
>>>>> Prevent the services such as Western Union from doing so, and stop
>>>>> banks from allowing individuals to open accounts in other
>>>>> countries
>>or
>>>>> making deposits to such accounts.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be easy to track and block any electronic transfers by
>>>>> individuals out of the country.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If it was so easy it would have been long
>>>>before now. Fact is money has to cross borders
>>>>by the billions every minute. Demanding that
>>>>every sender prove their nationality is silly.
>>>
>>> Not really. Computers can do more every day.
>>>
>>> You might be amazed to know what is possible.
>>
>>
>> If it was possible it would have been done by now.
>
> There has been no requirement to do so.
Maybe we should deport illegal aliens. What a
novel idea.
Illegal immigrants employers to be prosecuted
http://tinyurl.com/274n7lx
ICE Criminal Prosecutions Continue to Rise Under Obama
http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/216/
>>
>>>>>>>>>>Alabama Illegal Immigrant Crackdown Destroys Farm Business
>>>>>>>>>>July 2012
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Sunday, the Associated Press reported worker shortages
>>>>>>>>>>have prompted some Alabama farmers who grow labor-intensive
>>>>>>>>>>produce to plant less, rather than have crops rot in the
>>>>>>>>>>fields again this year. Few locals will perform the grueling
>>>>>>>>>>work of picking crops, and farmers stuck in a agricultural
>>>>>>>>>>system built on illegal labor are struggling to find
>>>>>>>>>>replacements before their produce rots.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Alabama’s situation is not unique. Georgia passed a similar
>>>>>>>>>>immigration law in 2011. When undocumented workers fled,
>>>>>>>>>>farmers lost around 40% of their workers and $140 million
>>>>>>>>>>worth of blueberries, melons, onions, and other crops due
>>>>>>>>>>to labor shortages. This year Georgia farmers again fear
>>>>>>>>>>they will be short on workers to pick the crops, and many
>>>>>>>>>>have scaled back production or stopped planting altogether.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>http://tinyurl.com/ckusuge
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There will be an adjustment period.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Americans don't want adjustment periods,
>>>>>>>>they want clean hotel rooms and fresh vegetables
>>>>>>>>and mowed lawns and fixed potholes, and so far
>>>>>>>>only illegals are willing to do those jobs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When illegals are gone another solution will be found. It
>>>>>>> always
>>is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What solution is that?
>>>>>
>>>>> Automation, and other labor sources. Perhaps more legal
>>>>> immigration if needed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is automation going to clean your hotel
>>>>room and patch your roof and mow your yard?
>>>
>>> Who knows? Robotics are expanding every day. Even cars are going
>>> to drive themselves.
>>
>>
>> No robot is going clean your hotel room or
>>change your bedban or fix your roof. We need
>>cheap labor. We have always needed cheap labor.
>
> But not illegal labor.
That is the only labor willing to do those jobs.
Why do you think crops rot in the fields when
only Americans are allowed to harvest them?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Show us the downside to Reagan legalizing
>>>>millions of immigrants. Did the stock market
>>>>crash, did jobs disappear, did Americans go
>>>>hungry?
>>>
>>> The downside was letting millions of people get away with breaking
>>> the law and rewarding them for doing so.
>>
>>
>> The "new Americans" were still the laboring poor,
>>they still do the crap jobs Americans won't touch, the
>>economy still benefits from them, AND we saved money
>>by not deporting them.
>
> We would have saved more by preventing them from entering in the first
> place.
By building a wall.
A $16 million PER MILE border wall?
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/09/this-is-what-trumps-border-wall-could-
cost-us.html
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-06 23:11 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <fleclbplub89cp4umn76rvh3s6uub7m4r8@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2121183 |
On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 21:10:43 -0500, Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id <XnsA61FD79E4A434noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >news:a4fblb5vdh6s2ldj2q57s8596bq2flt6v3@4ax.com: > >> On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 08:02:42 -0500, Mitchell Holman >> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >> <XnsA61F52043A22noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >> >>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>news:jh4alb9djlj4c720b9n18a6n8vbuc6p3kr@4ax.com: >>> >>>> On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 21:28:59 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>> <XnsA61EDAB682400noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>> >>>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>>news:8276lbp0cevc1n5kjrkq4na9b4814uf3qs@4ax.com: >>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 12:38:24 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>> <XnsA61D80C187F35noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Americans will never stand for it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You might be surprised. We are close now with SS cards and >>>>>>>> driver's licenses. It is a necessity today. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You don't need to produce an SSI card to >>>>>>>buy a roll of stamps or pay your water bill. >>>>>>>Just try requiring it and see what happens. >>>>>> >>>>>> You need ID and/or your 'taxpayer ID" (SSN) to open a bank >>>>>> account, see a doctor, or apply for credit. And usually to sign >>>>>> up for utilities. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> None of those require proof of citizenship. >>>>>Americans would not put up with dollar coin or >>>>>$2 bill, they are certainly not going to put up >>>>>with proving their nationality wherever they go. >>>> >>>> They need a taxpayer ID, and if such and ID was required it would be >>>> used. Just as a drivers license is used now. >>>> >>>> No ID, no activity whatever it is. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Americans will not stand for having to prove >>>their nationality everytime they buy or sell. >> >> It would not be necessary or every transaction. Basically the same >> things that require ID now. > > > No one needs to prove citizenship to buy >a tolltag or buy stamps or get a library card. >Nor should they have to. They do to open a bank account, see a doctor, or get any kind of credit. Whether that should be required is sometimes a matter of opinion and at other times due diligence > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not many would last long enough to be interested in either >>>the >>>>>>>post >>>>>>>>>>>>>> office or the DMV. Especially if sending money out of the >>>>>>>country >>>>>>>>>in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> any way required such ID. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Corporations send billions of dollars out >>>>>>>>>>>>>of the country every day. Why should people >>>>>>>>>>>>>be barred from doing it. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Corporations do it for business reasons. This is a >>>>>>>>>>>> necessary >>>>>part >>>>>>>of >>>>>>>>>>>> international trade and multi-national economic activity. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is not true for individuals, and frequently the sender >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>here >>>>>>>>>>>> illegally. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If someone wants to send money to their relatives >>>>>>>>>>>in Ireland or Japan - or Mexico - that is their option, >>>>>>>>>>>no? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As long as they are here legally and the amount should be >>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>to >>>>>>>>>> insure they are not acting as agents for others. Records of >>>>>>>>>> such activity should be kept. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Records are already being kept of money transfers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> These transfers are the reason many illegals are here and should >>>>>>>> be stopped on that basis alone. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How do you stop people from sending money abroad? >>>>>> >>>>>> Prevent the services such as Western Union from doing so, and stop >>>>>> banks from allowing individuals to open accounts in other >>>>>> countries >>>or >>>>>> making deposits to such accounts. >>>>>> >>>>>> It would be easy to track and block any electronic transfers by >>>>>> individuals out of the country. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If it was so easy it would have been long >>>>>before now. Fact is money has to cross borders >>>>>by the billions every minute. Demanding that >>>>>every sender prove their nationality is silly. >>>> >>>> Not really. Computers can do more every day. >>>> >>>> You might be amazed to know what is possible. >>> >>> >>> If it was possible it would have been done by now. >> >> There has been no requirement to do so. > > > Maybe we should deport illegal aliens. What a >novel idea. That's what I have been saying all along. > > >Illegal immigrants employers to be prosecuted >http://tinyurl.com/274n7lx > > > >ICE Criminal Prosecutions Continue to Rise Under Obama >http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/216/ > > > >>> >>>>>>>>>>>Alabama Illegal Immigrant Crackdown Destroys Farm Business >>>>>>>>>>>July 2012 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On Sunday, the Associated Press reported worker shortages >>>>>>>>>>>have prompted some Alabama farmers who grow labor-intensive >>>>>>>>>>>produce to plant less, rather than have crops rot in the >>>>>>>>>>>fields again this year. Few locals will perform the grueling >>>>>>>>>>>work of picking crops, and farmers stuck in a agricultural >>>>>>>>>>>system built on illegal labor are struggling to find >>>>>>>>>>>replacements before their produce rots. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Alabama’s situation is not unique. Georgia passed a similar >>>>>>>>>>>immigration law in 2011. When undocumented workers fled, >>>>>>>>>>>farmers lost around 40% of their workers and $140 million >>>>>>>>>>>worth of blueberries, melons, onions, and other crops due >>>>>>>>>>>to labor shortages. This year Georgia farmers again fear >>>>>>>>>>>they will be short on workers to pick the crops, and many >>>>>>>>>>>have scaled back production or stopped planting altogether. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>http://tinyurl.com/ckusuge >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There will be an adjustment period. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Americans don't want adjustment periods, >>>>>>>>>they want clean hotel rooms and fresh vegetables >>>>>>>>>and mowed lawns and fixed potholes, and so far >>>>>>>>>only illegals are willing to do those jobs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When illegals are gone another solution will be found. It >>>>>>>> always >>>is. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What solution is that? >>>>>> >>>>>> Automation, and other labor sources. Perhaps more legal >>>>>> immigration if needed. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Is automation going to clean your hotel >>>>>room and patch your roof and mow your yard? >>>> >>>> Who knows? Robotics are expanding every day. Even cars are going >>>> to drive themselves. >>> >>> >>> No robot is going clean your hotel room or >>>change your bedban or fix your roof. We need >>>cheap labor. We have always needed cheap labor. >> >> But not illegal labor. > > > That is the only labor willing to do those jobs. > > Why do you think crops rot in the fields when >only Americans are allowed to harvest them? > > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Show us the downside to Reagan legalizing >>>>>millions of immigrants. Did the stock market >>>>>crash, did jobs disappear, did Americans go >>>>>hungry? >>>> >>>> The downside was letting millions of people get away with breaking >>>> the law and rewarding them for doing so. >>> >>> >>> The "new Americans" were still the laboring poor, >>>they still do the crap jobs Americans won't touch, the >>>economy still benefits from them, AND we saved money >>>by not deporting them. >> >> We would have saved more by preventing them from entering in the first >> place. > > > By building a wall. > > A $16 million PER MILE border wall? > > >http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/09/this-is-what-trumps-border-wall-could- >cost-us.html > > > > > > > > -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-07 17:13 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <XnsA620AF77827CBnoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> |
| In reply to | #2121201 |
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in
news:fleclbplub89cp4umn76rvh3s6uub7m4r8@4ax.com:
> On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 21:10:43 -0500, Mitchell Holman
> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <XnsA61FD79E4A434noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote:
>
>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in
>>news:a4fblb5vdh6s2ldj2q57s8596bq2flt6v3@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 08:02:42 -0500, Mitchell Holman
>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>> <XnsA61F52043A22noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in
>>>>news:jh4alb9djlj4c720b9n18a6n8vbuc6p3kr@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 21:28:59 -0500, Mitchell Holman
>>>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>> <XnsA61EDAB682400noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in
>>>>>>news:8276lbp0cevc1n5kjrkq4na9b4814uf3qs@4ax.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 12:38:24 -0500, Mitchell Holman
>>>>>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>> <XnsA61D80C187F35noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Americans will never stand for it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You might be surprised. We are close now with SS cards and
>>>>>>>>> driver's licenses. It is a necessity today.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You don't need to produce an SSI card to
>>>>>>>>buy a roll of stamps or pay your water bill.
>>>>>>>>Just try requiring it and see what happens.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You need ID and/or your 'taxpayer ID" (SSN) to open a bank
>>>>>>> account, see a doctor, or apply for credit. And usually to sign
>>>>>>> up for utilities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> None of those require proof of citizenship.
>>>>>>Americans would not put up with dollar coin or
>>>>>>$2 bill, they are certainly not going to put up
>>>>>>with proving their nationality wherever they go.
>>>>>
>>>>> They need a taxpayer ID, and if such and ID was required it would
be
>>>>> used. Just as a drivers license is used now.
>>>>>
>>>>> No ID, no activity whatever it is.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Americans will not stand for having to prove
>>>>their nationality everytime they buy or sell.
>>>
>>> It would not be necessary or every transaction. Basically the same
>>> things that require ID now.
>>
>>
>> No one needs to prove citizenship to buy
>>a tolltag or buy stamps or get a library card.
>>Nor should they have to.
>
> They do to open a bank account, see a doctor, or get any kind of
> credit.
No doctor requries citizenship proof
before treating a patient.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What solution is that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Automation, and other labor sources. Perhaps more legal
>>>>>>> immigration if needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is automation going to clean your hotel
>>>>>>room and patch your roof and mow your yard?
>>>>>
>>>>> Who knows? Robotics are expanding every day. Even cars are going
>>>>> to drive themselves.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No robot is going clean your hotel room or
>>>>change your bedban or fix your roof. We need
>>>>cheap labor. We have always needed cheap labor.
>>>
>>> But not illegal labor.
>>
>>
>> That is the only labor willing to do those jobs.
>>
Why do you think crops rot in the fields when
only Americans are allowed to harvest them?
>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Show us the downside to Reagan legalizing
>>>>>>millions of immigrants. Did the stock market
>>>>>>crash, did jobs disappear, did Americans go
>>>>>>hungry?
>>>>>
>>>>> The downside was letting millions of people get away with breaking
>>>>> the law and rewarding them for doing so.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The "new Americans" were still the laboring poor,
>>>>they still do the crap jobs Americans won't touch, the
>>>>economy still benefits from them, AND we saved money
>>>>by not deporting them.
>>>
>>> We would have saved more by preventing them from entering in the
first
>>> place.
>>
>>
By building a wall.
A $16 million PER MILE border wall?
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/09/this-is-what-trumps-border-wall-could-
cost-us.html
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-07 18:22 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <42ielblniut4jdhqkg6120qthv9gkeafpr@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2121658 |
On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 17:13:54 -0500, Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id <XnsA620AF77827CBnoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >news:fleclbplub89cp4umn76rvh3s6uub7m4r8@4ax.com: > >> On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 21:10:43 -0500, Mitchell Holman >> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >> <XnsA61FD79E4A434noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >> >>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>news:a4fblb5vdh6s2ldj2q57s8596bq2flt6v3@4ax.com: >>> >>>> On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 08:02:42 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>> <XnsA61F52043A22noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>> >>>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>>news:jh4alb9djlj4c720b9n18a6n8vbuc6p3kr@4ax.com: >>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 21:28:59 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>> <XnsA61EDAB682400noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>>>>news:8276lbp0cevc1n5kjrkq4na9b4814uf3qs@4ax.com: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 12:38:24 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>>>>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>>>> <XnsA61D80C187F35noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Americans will never stand for it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You might be surprised. We are close now with SS cards and >>>>>>>>>> driver's licenses. It is a necessity today. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You don't need to produce an SSI card to >>>>>>>>>buy a roll of stamps or pay your water bill. >>>>>>>>>Just try requiring it and see what happens. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You need ID and/or your 'taxpayer ID" (SSN) to open a bank >>>>>>>> account, see a doctor, or apply for credit. And usually to sign >>>>>>>> up for utilities. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> None of those require proof of citizenship. >>>>>>>Americans would not put up with dollar coin or >>>>>>>$2 bill, they are certainly not going to put up >>>>>>>with proving their nationality wherever they go. >>>>>> >>>>>> They need a taxpayer ID, and if such and ID was required it would >be >>>>>> used. Just as a drivers license is used now. >>>>>> >>>>>> No ID, no activity whatever it is. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Americans will not stand for having to prove >>>>>their nationality everytime they buy or sell. >>>> >>>> It would not be necessary or every transaction. Basically the same >>>> things that require ID now. >>> >>> >>> No one needs to prove citizenship to buy >>>a tolltag or buy stamps or get a library card. >>>Nor should they have to. >> >> They do to open a bank account, see a doctor, or get any kind of >> credit. > > > No doctor requries citizenship proof >before treating a patient. They require Medicare or Medicaid number if those plans are involved. Including a copy of the document. > > > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What solution is that? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Automation, and other labor sources. Perhaps more legal >>>>>>>> immigration if needed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is automation going to clean your hotel >>>>>>>room and patch your roof and mow your yard? >>>>>> >>>>>> Who knows? Robotics are expanding every day. Even cars are going >>>>>> to drive themselves. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No robot is going clean your hotel room or >>>>>change your bedban or fix your roof. We need >>>>>cheap labor. We have always needed cheap labor. >>>> >>>> But not illegal labor. >>> >>> >>> That is the only labor willing to do those jobs. >>> > > Why do you think crops rot in the fields when > only Americans are allowed to harvest them? Hiring illegals is not a viable answer. >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Show us the downside to Reagan legalizing >>>>>>>millions of immigrants. Did the stock market >>>>>>>crash, did jobs disappear, did Americans go >>>>>>>hungry? >>>>>> >>>>>> The downside was letting millions of people get away with breaking >>>>>> the law and rewarding them for doing so. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The "new Americans" were still the laboring poor, >>>>>they still do the crap jobs Americans won't touch, the >>>>>economy still benefits from them, AND we saved money >>>>>by not deporting them. >>>> >>>> We would have saved more by preventing them from entering in the >first >>>> place. >>> >>> > By building a wall. > > A $16 million PER MILE border wall? > > >http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/09/this-is-what-trumps-border-wall-could- >cost-us.html If that's what it takes. It can be done cheaper if the resolve is there. I doubt the Berlin Wall cost that much. -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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| From | "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-03 10:28 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <drc19mFg7h2U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2118030 |
On 02/06/2016 22:40, Attila wrote: > On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 07:23:49 -0500, Mitchell Holman > <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id > <XnsA61B4B6CCD76Cnoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: > >> Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >> news:fdhvkbl5uhh69jqg179rqhb3ibl4ebb64s@4ax.com: >>>> >>>> If you pay into the system, you acquire the right to draw on it in >>>> time of need. >>> >>> I said unearned. Things like Medicaid and Social Security for anyone >>> who did not work to earn the income. Food stamps. Any other welfare >>> payments. >> >> >> >> >> How about public schools? Children certainly >> don't work, so their education is an "unearned >> benefit", no? >> > > Public schools are paid for with taxes - which are not paid by > illegals working for cash. When working for cash, what they do not pay is income and payroll taxes -- everything direct. But given the menial character of such labour, they would likely not even be paying any income tax if they were fully legal. Even illegals working for cash have to live somewhere. That means they pay rent. Paying rent means the property owner pays his property tax which in turn funds public schools. It is irrelevant for the purposes of property tax where the rent money came from. On top of that, illegals working for cash spend that cash. This means they pay their full share of all indirect taxes such as sales and fuel or tax on utilities (water, gas, electricity).
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| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-03 04:55 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <g7h2lbl2motuiid3bshv530916qld8cug7@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2118458 |
On Fri, 3 Jun 2016 10:28:36 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in alt.atheism with message-id <drc19mFg7h2U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >On 02/06/2016 22:40, Attila wrote: >> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 07:23:49 -0500, Mitchell Holman >> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >> <XnsA61B4B6CCD76Cnoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >> >>> Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>> news:fdhvkbl5uhh69jqg179rqhb3ibl4ebb64s@4ax.com: > > >>>>> >>>>> If you pay into the system, you acquire the right to draw on it in >>>>> time of need. >>>> >>>> I said unearned. Things like Medicaid and Social Security for anyone >>>> who did not work to earn the income. Food stamps. Any other welfare >>>> payments. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> How about public schools? Children certainly >>> don't work, so their education is an "unearned >>> benefit", no? >>> >> >> Public schools are paid for with taxes - which are not paid by >> illegals working for cash. > >When working for cash, what they do not pay is income and payroll taxes >-- everything direct. But given the menial character of such labour, >they would likely not even be paying any income tax if they were fully >legal. But they would still be using those things taxes pay for. > >Even illegals working for cash have to live somewhere. That means they >pay rent. Paying rent means the property owner pays his property tax >which in turn funds public schools. It is irrelevant for the purposes >of property tax where the rent money came from. > >On top of that, illegals working for cash spend that cash. This means >they pay their full share of all indirect taxes such as sales and fuel >or tax on utilities (water, gas, electricity). > Their costs far outweigh what they spend. Usually they send a lot of money out of the country, which removes it from the economy. Not to mention the entire drug smuggling situation. -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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| From | "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-04 10:52 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <dren1pF20qiU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2118671 |
On 03/06/2016 18:55, Attila wrote: > On Fri, 3 Jun 2016 10:28:36 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in > alt.atheism with message-id <drc19mFg7h2U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: > >> On 02/06/2016 22:40, Attila wrote: >>> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 07:23:49 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>> <XnsA61B4B6CCD76Cnoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>> >>>> Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>> news:fdhvkbl5uhh69jqg179rqhb3ibl4ebb64s@4ax.com: >> >> >>>>>> >>>>>> If you pay into the system, you acquire the right to draw on it in >>>>>> time of need. >>>>> >>>>> I said unearned. Things like Medicaid and Social Security for anyone >>>>> who did not work to earn the income. Food stamps. Any other welfare >>>>> payments. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> How about public schools? Children certainly >>>> don't work, so their education is an "unearned >>>> benefit", no? >>>> >>> >>> Public schools are paid for with taxes - which are not paid by >>> illegals working for cash. >> >> When working for cash, what they do not pay is income and payroll taxes >> -- everything direct. But given the menial character of such labour, >> they would likely not even be paying any income tax if they were fully >> legal. > > But they would still be using those things taxes pay for. Just like everyone else. And in this specific issue, since the rent they pay funds the property tax, they do pay for schools. > >> >> Even illegals working for cash have to live somewhere. That means they >> pay rent. Paying rent means the property owner pays his property tax >> which in turn funds public schools. It is irrelevant for the purposes >> of property tax where the rent money came from. >> >> On top of that, illegals working for cash spend that cash. This means >> they pay their full share of all indirect taxes such as sales and fuel >> or tax on utilities (water, gas, electricity). >> > > Their costs far outweigh what they spend. Usually they send a lot of > money out of the country, which removes it from the economy. Not to > mention the entire drug smuggling situation. So Jesus earns $1,000 a month washing cars. He sends $300 home every month -- using US firms to do so, which generates turnover and protects US jobs. The family back home in Mexico is happy and spends the money, increasing their purchasing power. This means they become customers -- and many of the companies that sell them stuff will be American or sell American goods. All that flows back into the US. What's more, illegals working for low wages increases productivity and profits for US businesses large and small. This increases the national wealth and the tax revenue. It also frees up many expensively educated US citizens to do more productive things themselves -- asking a US citizen to mow lawns or wash cars or pick fruit is a vastly self-indulgent waste of money.
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| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-04 04:00 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <l925lb5ssdp05qq3j6pghdpcd6fbs233k4@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2119117 |
On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 10:52:11 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in alt.atheism with message-id <dren1pF20qiU1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >On 03/06/2016 18:55, Attila wrote: >> On Fri, 3 Jun 2016 10:28:36 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in >> alt.atheism with message-id <drc19mFg7h2U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >> >>> On 02/06/2016 22:40, Attila wrote: >>>> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 07:23:49 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>> <XnsA61B4B6CCD76Cnoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>> news:fdhvkbl5uhh69jqg179rqhb3ibl4ebb64s@4ax.com: >>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you pay into the system, you acquire the right to draw on it in >>>>>>> time of need. >>>>>> >>>>>> I said unearned. Things like Medicaid and Social Security for anyone >>>>>> who did not work to earn the income. Food stamps. Any other welfare >>>>>> payments. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> How about public schools? Children certainly >>>>> don't work, so their education is an "unearned >>>>> benefit", no? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Public schools are paid for with taxes - which are not paid by >>>> illegals working for cash. >>> >>> When working for cash, what they do not pay is income and payroll taxes >>> -- everything direct. But given the menial character of such labour, >>> they would likely not even be paying any income tax if they were fully >>> legal. >> >> But they would still be using those things taxes pay for. > >Just like everyone else. > >And in this specific issue, since the rent they pay funds the property >tax, they do pay for schools. And usually cost more in services than they pay in taxes, for those who don't just work for cash. > > >> >>> >>> Even illegals working for cash have to live somewhere. That means they >>> pay rent. Paying rent means the property owner pays his property tax >>> which in turn funds public schools. It is irrelevant for the purposes >>> of property tax where the rent money came from. >>> >>> On top of that, illegals working for cash spend that cash. This means >>> they pay their full share of all indirect taxes such as sales and fuel >>> or tax on utilities (water, gas, electricity). >>> >> >> Their costs far outweigh what they spend. Usually they send a lot of >> money out of the country, which removes it from the economy. Not to >> mention the entire drug smuggling situation. > >So Jesus earns $1,000 a month washing cars. He sends $300 home every >month -- using US firms to do so, which generates turnover and protects >US jobs. Not that many, and those jobs would exist anyway. Would you use the increase in health care employment to justify drug usage? > The family back home in Mexico is happy and spends the money, >increasing their purchasing power. This means they become customers -- >and many of the companies that sell them stuff will be American or sell >American goods. All that flows back into the US. None of which matters. > >What's more, illegals working for low wages increases productivity and >profits for US businesses large and small. This increases the national >wealth and the tax revenue. It also frees up many expensively educated >US citizens to do more productive things themselves -- asking a US >citizen to mow lawns or wash cars or pick fruit is a vastly >self-indulgent waste of money. Irrelevant and mostly wrong. Keep them out in any way necessary, find those already here in any way necessary, and deport them upon identification without exception. And no one should have the authority to grant any exceptions for any reason. -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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| From | "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-05 11:54 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <drhf2aFijc4U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2119269 |
On 04/06/2016 18:00, Attila wrote: > On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 10:52:11 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in > alt.atheism with message-id <dren1pF20qiU1@mid.individual.net> wrote: > >> On 03/06/2016 18:55, Attila wrote: >>> On Fri, 3 Jun 2016 10:28:36 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in >>> alt.atheism with message-id <drc19mFg7h2U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 02/06/2016 22:40, Attila wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 07:23:49 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>>> <XnsA61B4B6CCD76Cnoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>>> news:fdhvkbl5uhh69jqg179rqhb3ibl4ebb64s@4ax.com: >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you pay into the system, you acquire the right to draw on it in >>>>>>>> time of need. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I said unearned. Things like Medicaid and Social Security for anyone >>>>>>> who did not work to earn the income. Food stamps. Any other welfare >>>>>>> payments. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> How about public schools? Children certainly >>>>>> don't work, so their education is an "unearned >>>>>> benefit", no? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Public schools are paid for with taxes - which are not paid by >>>>> illegals working for cash. >>>> >>>> When working for cash, what they do not pay is income and payroll taxes >>>> -- everything direct. But given the menial character of such labour, >>>> they would likely not even be paying any income tax if they were fully >>>> legal. >>> >>> But they would still be using those things taxes pay for. >> >> Just like everyone else. >> >> And in this specific issue, since the rent they pay funds the property >> tax, they do pay for schools. > > And usually cost more in services than they pay in taxes, for those > who don't just work for cash. How so? Illegals as a rule do not access most government services for fear of being caught and deported. > >> >> >>> >>>> >>>> Even illegals working for cash have to live somewhere. That means they >>>> pay rent. Paying rent means the property owner pays his property tax >>>> which in turn funds public schools. It is irrelevant for the purposes >>>> of property tax where the rent money came from. >>>> >>>> On top of that, illegals working for cash spend that cash. This means >>>> they pay their full share of all indirect taxes such as sales and fuel >>>> or tax on utilities (water, gas, electricity). >>>> >>> >>> Their costs far outweigh what they spend. Usually they send a lot of >>> money out of the country, which removes it from the economy. Not to >>> mention the entire drug smuggling situation. >> >> So Jesus earns $1,000 a month washing cars. He sends $300 home every >> month -- using US firms to do so, which generates turnover and protects >> US jobs. > > Not that many, and those jobs would exist anyway. Would you use the > increase in health care employment to justify drug usage? Remittances to Mexico alone amounted to 2173.35 USD Million in April alone. The average amount from 1995-2016 was 1359.81 USD Million a month. And that's only official amounts not counting money sent over in cash or in kind. Close that off, and no, the jobs dealing with that sort of money flow would not exist anyway. > > > >> The family back home in Mexico is happy and spends the money, >> increasing their purchasing power. This means they become customers -- >> and many of the companies that sell them stuff will be American or sell >> American goods. All that flows back into the US. > > None of which matters. In economic terms, it matters a lot.
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| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-05 04:13 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <4jn7lbhncorn6rhf8212paqipjpgojhtbp@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2119862 |
On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 11:54:24 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in alt.atheism with message-id <drhf2aFijc4U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >On 04/06/2016 18:00, Attila wrote: >> On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 10:52:11 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in >> alt.atheism with message-id <dren1pF20qiU1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >> >>> On 03/06/2016 18:55, Attila wrote: >>>> On Fri, 3 Jun 2016 10:28:36 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in >>>> alt.atheism with message-id <drc19mFg7h2U1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 02/06/2016 22:40, Attila wrote: >>>>>> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 07:23:49 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>> <XnsA61B4B6CCD76Cnoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>>>> news:fdhvkbl5uhh69jqg179rqhb3ibl4ebb64s@4ax.com: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you pay into the system, you acquire the right to draw on it in >>>>>>>>> time of need. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I said unearned. Things like Medicaid and Social Security for anyone >>>>>>>> who did not work to earn the income. Food stamps. Any other welfare >>>>>>>> payments. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How about public schools? Children certainly >>>>>>> don't work, so their education is an "unearned >>>>>>> benefit", no? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Public schools are paid for with taxes - which are not paid by >>>>>> illegals working for cash. >>>>> >>>>> When working for cash, what they do not pay is income and payroll taxes >>>>> -- everything direct. But given the menial character of such labour, >>>>> they would likely not even be paying any income tax if they were fully >>>>> legal. >>>> >>>> But they would still be using those things taxes pay for. >>> >>> Just like everyone else. >>> >>> And in this specific issue, since the rent they pay funds the property >>> tax, they do pay for schools. >> >> And usually cost more in services than they pay in taxes, for those >> who don't just work for cash. > >How so? > >Illegals as a rule do not access most government services for fear of >being caught and deported. You must be kidding. They go on TV and brag about it. And they register for welfare and medical services as soon as possible. >>>>> >>>>> Even illegals working for cash have to live somewhere. That means they >>>>> pay rent. Paying rent means the property owner pays his property tax >>>>> which in turn funds public schools. It is irrelevant for the purposes >>>>> of property tax where the rent money came from. >>>>> >>>>> On top of that, illegals working for cash spend that cash. This means >>>>> they pay their full share of all indirect taxes such as sales and fuel >>>>> or tax on utilities (water, gas, electricity). >>>>> >>>> >>>> Their costs far outweigh what they spend. Usually they send a lot of >>>> money out of the country, which removes it from the economy. Not to >>>> mention the entire drug smuggling situation. >>> >>> So Jesus earns $1,000 a month washing cars. He sends $300 home every >>> month -- using US firms to do so, which generates turnover and protects >>> US jobs. >> >> Not that many, and those jobs would exist anyway. Would you use the >> increase in health care employment to justify drug usage? > >Remittances to Mexico alone amounted to 2173.35 USD Million in April >alone. The average amount from 1995-2016 was 1359.81 USD Million a >month. And that's only official amounts not counting money sent over in >cash or in kind. Close that off, and no, the jobs dealing with that >sort of money flow would not exist anyway. And that much more money would remain within our economy. >> >>> The family back home in Mexico is happy and spends the money, >>> increasing their purchasing power. This means they become customers -- >>> and many of the companies that sell them stuff will be American or sell >>> American goods. All that flows back into the US. >> >> None of which matters. > >In economic terms, it matters a lot. > > Not in the long run, and keeping control of our country counts for a lot. -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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| From | Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-01 20:58 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <XnsA61AD59035B54noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> |
| In reply to | #2117728 |
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in news:01uukbhvtrn205mb7d6m0nk5aiqi2benuf@4ax.com: > On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 19:00:05 -0500, Mitchell Holman > <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id > <XnsA61AC17D8713Anoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: > >>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>news:q8nukbtv4n47iv9varp28q2dqsnd6agn3f@4ax.com: >> >>> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:39:06 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>> <XnsA61A9F6AB680noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>> >>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>news:p1otkbh8iu6qchoebbujqdkv9np5lsobmi@4ax.com: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 05:51:08 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com in >>>>> alt.atheism with message-id >>>>> <4e901c5b-d10f-45ad-99b3-75ac0e5257af@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 6:42:48 PM UTC+8, Alex W. wrote: >>>>>>> On 01/06/2016 20:38, Attila wrote: >>>>>>> > On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 20:30:04 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>> > in alt.atheism with message-id <dr7rpaFkj9rU2 @mid.individual.net> >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >> On 01/06/2016 19:35, Attila wrote: >>>>>>> >>> On Fri, 27 May 2016 19:51:45 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com >>in >>>>>>> >>> alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>>> >>> <8b9ed5aa-8f79-49c7-bd3b-e155d481a0b6@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 4:24:49 AM UTC+8, viva padrepio >>>>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>> Feds spent millions flying illegals around the country!!! >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> Distribution of workforce where they are wanted...it is >>>>>>> >>>> logical. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> Only if the taxpayer doesn't pay for it. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> That depends whether the taxpayer saves overall. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > It's hard to see how the taxpayer can benefit from paying the >>>>>>> > transportation distribution expenses for unskilled workers. >>>>>> >>>>>>No one wants to see his garbage uncollected, drains clogged and >>>>>>streets uncleaned. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The moment transport costs are lower than the cost to social >>>>>>> security programmes, it's a net gain to the taxpayer. If I can >>save >>>>>>> $1,000 in food stamps and unemployment benefits by spending $500 on >>>>>>> a plane ticket, I'll take that deal. >>>>>> >>>>>>Right. >>>>> >>>>> A better solution is to tighten up on the government giveaway >>>>> programs. >>>> >>>> >>>> Starting with handouts to corporations. >>>> >>>> >>> Handouts to individuals far exceed any tax breaks corporations get. >> >> >> What do you consider a "handout"? >> >> > Unearned income. Including unearned "benefits". > So people who pay into the social safety net should not be allowed to benefit it?
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| From | "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 12:25 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <dr9jorF12tiU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2117779 |
On 02/06/2016 11:58, Mitchell Holman wrote: > > So people who pay into the social safety > net should not be allowed to benefit it? > Which, incidentally, happens quite a bit. Every illegal who found a legal job using a fake SS number/card will have paid into the system but is unable to access the benefits. This amounts to billions of dollars which are effectively a subsidy of the system...
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| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 01:43 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <iphvkb1nqn4cp2hb1997l0mm1iojld553d@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2117802 |
On Thu, 2 Jun 2016 12:25:34 +1000, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in alt.atheism with message-id <dr9jorF12tiU1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >On 02/06/2016 11:58, Mitchell Holman wrote: > >> >> So people who pay into the social safety >> net should not be allowed to benefit it? >> > >Which, incidentally, happens quite a bit. > >Every illegal who found a legal job using a fake SS number/card will >have paid into the system but is unable to access the benefits. > >This amounts to billions of dollars which are effectively a subsidy of >the system... And they are outnumbered by those who receive payments and benefits without having worked a single day to earn them. -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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| From | rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-07 15:23 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <c080e3f4-5f1a-41fd-b97a-cfc5f2cdb02c@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #2117802 |
On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 9:25:35 PM UTC-5, Alex W. wrote: > Every illegal who found a legal job using a fake SS number/card will > have paid into the system but is unable to access the benefits. Wow. My head just exploded. :-(
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| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 01:41 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <vkhvkblau261un1tu7n74l7opuk4ibc0ie@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2117779 |
On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 20:58:28 -0500, Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id <XnsA61AD59035B54noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >news:01uukbhvtrn205mb7d6m0nk5aiqi2benuf@4ax.com: > >> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 19:00:05 -0500, Mitchell Holman >> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >> <XnsA61AC17D8713Anoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >> >>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>news:q8nukbtv4n47iv9varp28q2dqsnd6agn3f@4ax.com: >>> >>>> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:39:06 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>> <XnsA61A9F6AB680noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>> >>>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>>news:p1otkbh8iu6qchoebbujqdkv9np5lsobmi@4ax.com: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 05:51:08 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com in >>>>>> alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>> <4e901c5b-d10f-45ad-99b3-75ac0e5257af@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 6:42:48 PM UTC+8, Alex W. wrote: >>>>>>>> On 01/06/2016 20:38, Attila wrote: >>>>>>>> > On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 20:30:04 +1000, "Alex W." ><ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>>> > in alt.atheism with message-id <dr7rpaFkj9rU2 >@mid.individual.net> >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >> On 01/06/2016 19:35, Attila wrote: >>>>>>>> >>> On Fri, 27 May 2016 19:51:45 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com >>>in >>>>>>>> >>> alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>>>> >>> <8b9ed5aa-8f79-49c7-bd3b-e155d481a0b6@googlegroups.com> >wrote: >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 4:24:49 AM UTC+8, viva padrepio >>>>>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>> Feds spent millions flying illegals around the country!!! >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> Distribution of workforce where they are wanted...it is >>>>>>>> >>>> logical. >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> Only if the taxpayer doesn't pay for it. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> That depends whether the taxpayer saves overall. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > It's hard to see how the taxpayer can benefit from paying the >>>>>>>> > transportation distribution expenses for unskilled workers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>No one wants to see his garbage uncollected, drains clogged and >>>>>>>streets uncleaned. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The moment transport costs are lower than the cost to social >>>>>>>> security programmes, it's a net gain to the taxpayer. If I can >>>save >>>>>>>> $1,000 in food stamps and unemployment benefits by spending $500 >on >>>>>>>> a plane ticket, I'll take that deal. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Right. >>>>>> >>>>>> A better solution is to tighten up on the government giveaway >>>>>> programs. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Starting with handouts to corporations. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Handouts to individuals far exceed any tax breaks corporations get. >>> >>> >>> What do you consider a "handout"? >>> >>> >> Unearned income. Including unearned "benefits". >> > > > So people who pay into the social safety >net should not be allowed to benefit it? > Did you miss the unearned part? How did a Medicaid recipient pay into anything? Food stamps? SS other than by working and earning the coverage? All sorts of direct welfare payments? -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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| From | Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 07:20 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <XnsA61B4AD10638Anoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> |
| In reply to | #2117896 |
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in
news:vkhvkblau261un1tu7n74l7opuk4ibc0ie@4ax.com:
> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 20:58:28 -0500, Mitchell Holman
> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <XnsA61AD59035B54noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote:
>
>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in
>>news:01uukbhvtrn205mb7d6m0nk5aiqi2benuf@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 19:00:05 -0500, Mitchell Holman
>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>> <XnsA61AC17D8713Anoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in
>>>>news:q8nukbtv4n47iv9varp28q2dqsnd6agn3f@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:39:06 -0500, Mitchell Holman
>>>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>> <XnsA61A9F6AB680noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in
>>>>>>news:p1otkbh8iu6qchoebbujqdkv9np5lsobmi@4ax.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 05:51:08 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com in
>>>>>>> alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>> <4e901c5b-d10f-45ad-99b3-75ac0e5257af@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 6:42:48 PM UTC+8, Alex W. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 01/06/2016 20:38, Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>> > On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 20:30:04 +1000, "Alex W."
>><ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>> > in alt.atheism with message-id <dr7rpaFkj9rU2
>>@mid.individual.net>
>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >> On 01/06/2016 19:35, Attila wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>> On Fri, 27 May 2016 19:51:45 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>>>>>> >>> hhyapster@gmail.com
>>>>in
>>>>>>>>> >>> alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>> >>> <8b9ed5aa-8f79-49c7-bd3b-e155d481a0b6@googlegroups.com>
>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 4:24:49 AM UTC+8, viva
>>>>>>>>> >>>> padrepio wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>>> Feds spent millions flying illegals around the
>>>>>>>>> >>>>> country!!!
>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>> Distribution of workforce where they are wanted...it is
>>>>>>>>> >>>> logical.
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >>> Only if the taxpayer doesn't pay for it.
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> That depends whether the taxpayer saves overall.
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > It's hard to see how the taxpayer can benefit from paying
>>>>>>>>> > the transportation distribution expenses for unskilled
>>>>>>>>> > workers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No one wants to see his garbage uncollected, drains clogged and
>>>>>>>>streets uncleaned.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The moment transport costs are lower than the cost to social
>>>>>>>>> security programmes, it's a net gain to the taxpayer. If I
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>save
>>>>>>>>> $1,000 in food stamps and unemployment benefits by spending
>>>>>>>>> $500
>>on
>>>>>>>>> a plane ticket, I'll take that deal.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Right.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A better solution is to tighten up on the government giveaway
>>>>>>> programs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Starting with handouts to corporations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Handouts to individuals far exceed any tax breaks corporations
>>>>> get.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you consider a "handout"?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Unearned income. Including unearned "benefits".
>>>
>>
>>
>> So people who pay into the social safety
>>net should not be allowed to benefit it?
>>
>
> Did you miss the unearned part? How did a Medicaid recipient pay into
> anything?
Medicaid is by taxes collected from everyone,
same has the National Park budget and your local
fire dept. Should fire depts close because their
service is an "unearned benefit"?
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| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-02 08:42 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j9a0lb9rrv70r9r78lq909tol8pfnjjn9k@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2118017 |
On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 07:20:14 -0500, Mitchell Holman <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id <XnsA61B4AD10638Anoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >news:vkhvkblau261un1tu7n74l7opuk4ibc0ie@4ax.com: > >> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 20:58:28 -0500, Mitchell Holman >> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >> <XnsA61AD59035B54noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >> >>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>news:01uukbhvtrn205mb7d6m0nk5aiqi2benuf@4ax.com: >>> >>>> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 19:00:05 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>> <XnsA61AC17D8713Anoemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>> >>>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>>news:q8nukbtv4n47iv9varp28q2dqsnd6agn3f@4ax.com: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:39:06 -0500, Mitchell Holman >>>>>> <noemail@comcast.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>> <XnsA61A9F6AB680noemailattnet@216.166.97.131> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>>>>>news:p1otkbh8iu6qchoebbujqdkv9np5lsobmi@4ax.com: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 05:51:08 -0700 (PDT), hhyapster@gmail.com in >>>>>>>> alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>>>> <4e901c5b-d10f-45ad-99b3-75ac0e5257af@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 6:42:48 PM UTC+8, Alex W. wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 01/06/2016 20:38, Attila wrote: >>>>>>>>>> > On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 20:30:04 +1000, "Alex W." >>><ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> >>>>>>>>>> > in alt.atheism with message-id <dr7rpaFkj9rU2 >>>@mid.individual.net> >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> >> On 01/06/2016 19:35, Attila wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>> On Fri, 27 May 2016 19:51:45 -0700 (PDT), >>>>>>>>>> >>> hhyapster@gmail.com >>>>>in >>>>>>>>>> >>> alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>>>>>> >>> <8b9ed5aa-8f79-49c7-bd3b-e155d481a0b6@googlegroups.com> >>>wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 4:24:49 AM UTC+8, viva >>>>>>>>>> >>>> padrepio wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> Feds spent millions flying illegals around the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> country!!! >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> Distribution of workforce where they are wanted...it is >>>>>>>>>> >>>> logical. >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> Only if the taxpayer doesn't pay for it. >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> That depends whether the taxpayer saves overall. >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > It's hard to see how the taxpayer can benefit from paying >>>>>>>>>> > the transportation distribution expenses for unskilled >>>>>>>>>> > workers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>No one wants to see his garbage uncollected, drains clogged and >>>>>>>>>streets uncleaned. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The moment transport costs are lower than the cost to social >>>>>>>>>> security programmes, it's a net gain to the taxpayer. If I >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>save >>>>>>>>>> $1,000 in food stamps and unemployment benefits by spending >>>>>>>>>> $500 >>>on >>>>>>>>>> a plane ticket, I'll take that deal. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Right. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A better solution is to tighten up on the government giveaway >>>>>>>> programs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Starting with handouts to corporations. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Handouts to individuals far exceed any tax breaks corporations >>>>>> get. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What do you consider a "handout"? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Unearned income. Including unearned "benefits". >>>> >>> >>> >>> So people who pay into the social safety >>>net should not be allowed to benefit it? >>> >> >> Did you miss the unearned part? How did a Medicaid recipient pay into >> anything? > > > Medicaid is by taxes collected from everyone, >same has the National Park budget and your local >fire dept. Should fire depts close because their >service is an "unearned benefit"? > Fire departments provide a public service for everyone and are paid for by taxpayers. Medicaid does not and few Medicaid percipients pay taxes. -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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