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Re: Where is the center of the universe?

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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rickman wrote:
> 
> On 11/23/2015 2:31 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> > Tom Roberts wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/21/15 11/21/15 - 12:48 PM, benj wrote:
> >>> Draw two normal lines to two separated points in our universe. Where they cross
> >>> is the center.
> >>
> >> You have claimed this several times. Apparently you don't understand that
> >> "normal to a point" has no meaning. In 3-D the concept "normal" applies TO A
> >> SURFACE, not to a point (or to a volume); in general the normal vector ("line")
> >> also depends on which point of the surface is used.
> >>
> >> What surface do you have in mind, why didn't you bother to mention it, and what
> >> make you think that the two lines will actually "cross"?
> >>
> >>          You seem to have an excessively naive notion of geometry in
> >>          your mind.
> >>
> >>> Sam represents the current idiocy of this theory. He says the universe has no
> >>> center. but also the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3 (Sam thinks
> >>> space-time is real so he calls time a dimension too making it 4) These two ideas
> >>> are totally mutually exclusive. Sam has no problem with that. You just never
> >>> think about both of them at the same time. Even better, don't think at all.
> >>
> >> You take issue with "Sam" without knowing the actual situation. He is by no
> >> means alone, and your claims here are simply due to your personal ignorance
> >> about basic geometry, about current cosmological models, and about other people.
> >>
> >> The best current cosmological model reproduces essentially all of the relevant
> >> details of the cosmos we observe. It has no "center of the universe", and models
> >> the geometry of the universe as a 4-dimensional spacetime manifold.
> >>
> >> Neither Sam nor cosmological models consider spacetime to be "real" (YOUR
> >> inappropriate word). Rather, spacetime is part of a MODEL of the world we
> >> inhabit; models based on it, SR and GR, are the best models we have today for
> >> the domains of the world in which they are valid. Mainstream cosmological models
> >> are based on GR (specifically the FLRW manifolds).
> >>
> >>          Your claim "the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3"
> >>          is confusing model and world -- that's invalid. You are
> >>          implicitly ASSUMING some unspecified cosmological model, and
> >>          the odds are incredibly high that it is not as good as the
> >>          mainstream cosmological models you take issue with.
> >>
> >>          IOW: arguing from ignorance is never a good plan. Basing your
> >>          argument on an unacknowledged and unspecified model is
> >>          downright silly. You don't even realize you are doing this.
> >>
> >> Tom Roberts
> >
> >
> > When you draw a line from the top of the universe..
> > to the bottom of the universe..that's one straight line.
> 
> If you are standing at the top of the universe and you look up, what do
> you see?
> 
> --
> 
> Rick


You may need to understand my perpective of the universe...and how I am
able to see the top of the universe.

When I am standing not at the top of the universe, but *on* top of the
universe...the whole universe, or
if I place the whole universe on my drawing board...then I draw a line
from the top of the universe to the
bottom of the universe. My view of the universe is like a sheet of paper
on the drawing board.

If I look up...I see a ceiling. If I look to the right I see venetian
blinds..

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Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 17:45 -0600
  Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-20 23:48 -0800
    Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 10:27 +0100
      Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 05:13 -0500
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 12:57 +0100
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:44 -0500
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 20:01 +0100
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 14:17 -0500
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 20:01 +0100
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 14:22 -0500
    Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 08:05 -0600
      Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:48 -0500
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-23 10:21 -0600
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-23 17:34 +0100
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 11:31 -0800
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 15:54 -0500
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 13:43 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 16:49 -0500
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 16:17 -0800
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-24 16:52 -0500
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 22:24 +0000
    Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-21 07:13 -0700
      Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Notroll2015" <notroll2015@charter.net> - 2015-11-21 12:48 -0600
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-21 14:10 -0700
  Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-21 06:43 -0500
    Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:45 -0500
      Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". "Notroll2015" <notroll2015@charter.net> - 2015-11-21 12:51 -0600
      Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". Edward Stansfield <stansfield5REM6@linuxmail.org> - 2015-11-21 14:11 -0500
    Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-21 20:37 +0000
      Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-21 21:06 -0800
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-22 11:43 +0000
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 09:01 -0500
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-22 14:59 +0000
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-22 14:02 -0800
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 16:32 -0600
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-22 07:18 -0700
    Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-23 10:51 -0600
      Re: Where is the center of the universe? Arc Michael <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-24 13:57 -0800
      Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-24 17:07 -0500
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 22:48 +0000
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? Arc Michael <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-24 17:01 -0800
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-25 01:20 -0700
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? Arc Michael <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-25 10:51 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-12-03 18:13 -0700
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-24 21:47 -0800
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 10:32 +0000
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 09:47 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 21:36 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 14:22 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 14:27 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-26 15:39 -0700
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-27 00:48 +0000
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 17:34 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-01 21:52 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-12-02 09:49 -0700
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-25 09:59 -0600
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 11:16 -0500
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-25 11:02 -0600
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-25 18:47 +0100
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 10:06 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Arc Michael <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-25 10:52 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 14:04 -0600
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Arc Michael <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-25 12:38 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-25 14:23 -0700
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Notroll2015" <notroll2015@charter.net> - 2015-11-25 15:51 -0600
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-29 12:40 -0700
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-25 17:50 +0100
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 10:01 -0800
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 14:05 -0600
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 12:42 -0800

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