Re: energy and mass

From	DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity, sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: energy and mass
References	(10 earlier) <fk8sok1t8vbe7r6nhgl5v8eidkl7mnbcns@4ax.com> <mass-20260212201526@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> <xna4xdit4q.fsf@delorie.com> <photons-20260212222813@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> <10mlq9b$h4me$1@gwaiyur.mb-net.net>
Date	2026-02-12 20:59 -0500
Message-ID	<xn5x81iets.fsf@delorie.com> (permalink)

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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So... a photon moving at speed of light has some
energy-mass-whatever-equivalent, which is sufficient to warp spacetime.
That change may cause other photons' paths to "bend" as if gravity were
a force, regardless of time effects, because it's not a force, it's a
shape.

I think I got that part [*].

I wonder, though, if there were some non-spacetime actual "force"
between photons (I realize there isn't, but imagine one for a moment).
If said force obeyed the usual F=ma, *now* would time dilation come into
play wrt photons?  Two photons travelling next to each other, from their
point of view (or any other), how would that force evolve itself over
"time" ?

(yeah, stupid question maybe, but I still find the answers aka
discussions interesting ;)


[*] except if photons move at the speed of light, and "gravity" does
    too, do photons create gravitational shock waves as they travel?  Or
    does the distortion just travel happily along with the photon?  Or
    just behind it?  How could we find out?

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Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-12 14:55 +0100
  Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-12 14:58 +0100
  Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-12 07:43 -0800
    Re: energy and mass ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-12 16:23 +0000
      Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-12 08:44 -0800
        Re: energy and mass ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-12 17:15 +0000
          Re: energy and mass ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-13 13:45 +0000
        Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-14 05:12 +1100
          Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-13 20:26 +0100
            Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-14 15:56 +1100
              Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-14 14:17 +0100
            Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-14 13:56 +0100
              Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-14 09:39 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-14 09:40 -0800
      Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-12 22:08 +0100
        Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-13 10:07 -0800
      Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-12 22:57 +0100
        Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-13 10:11 -0800
      Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-13 00:33 +0100
    Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-12 19:39 +0100
      Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-12 11:04 -0800
        Re: energy and mass ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-12 19:22 +0000
          Re: energy and mass ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-12 20:16 +0000
          Re: energy and mass DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> - 2026-02-12 15:50 -0500
            Re: energy and mass ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-12 21:29 +0000
              Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-13 01:12 +0100
                Re: energy and mass DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> - 2026-02-12 20:59 -0500
                Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-13 03:15 +0100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-13 11:27 +0100
                Re: energy and mass DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> - 2026-02-13 10:09 -0500
                Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-13 17:39 +0100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-13 23:40 +0100
                Re: energy and mass ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-13 10:29 +0000
                Re: energy and mass DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> - 2026-02-13 10:21 -0500
                Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-13 17:34 +0100
              Re: energy and mass ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-21 15:24 +0000
            Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-12 23:12 +0100
            Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-12 23:27 +0100
        Re: energy and mass The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-02-12 11:28 -0800
        Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-12 22:29 +0100
        Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-14 05:22 +1100
          Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-13 19:58 +0100
            Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-14 07:13 +1100
              Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-14 00:44 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-14 03:52 +0100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-14 21:59 +0100
      Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-13 09:50 -0800
    Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-12 22:03 +0100
      Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-12 23:12 +0100
        Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-14 05:34 +1100
          Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-13 20:35 +0100
            Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-14 22:57 +0100
          Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-14 21:59 +0100
            Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-15 17:50 +1100
              Re: energy and mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-02-15 12:47 +0100
                Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-15 23:51 +1100
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-15 21:48 +0100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-15 08:13 -0800
                Re: energy and mass nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-02-15 21:48 +0100
                Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-15 13:11 -0800
                Re: energy and mass Seymour Dobrov <ouo@yosdm.ru> - 2026-02-15 19:49 +0000
      Re: energy and mass john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-13 10:04 -0800
      Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-13 10:05 -0800
    Re: energy and mass Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-14 05:00 +1100
      Re: energy and mass Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-02-13 10:19 -0800

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