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Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain

From "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain
Date 2025-05-08 14:54 +0200
Message-ID <p4muelx89p.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink)
References (23 earlier) <ic0selx3dm.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <vvfmht$11iac$1@dont-email.me> <evtselxgev.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <vvgonn$19stn$1@dont-email.me> <vvi2n4$1n4pj$1@dont-email.me>

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On 2025-05-08 12:57, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 08/05/2025 00:01, Don Y wrote:
>>>>>> Much like me having carrier doesn't tell me the extent of
>>>>>> my "reach", here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, the power outage was "total". :-D
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, but you don't know which services (up the chain) may
>>>> have their own *local*/private backup systems.  E.g., I doubt
>>>> your hospitals were without power (?)  The extent of backup
>>>> beyond that would be something you'd have to know, in advance.
>>>
>>> If the fibre goes direct to the exchange, they had backup power. 
>>> However, if the distance is great and they have to reconstruct the 
>>> signal with some kind of optical amplifier, then I don't know. The 
>>> distance is about 2.5 Km.
>>
>> But where can exchange traffic go?  See what I mean?  Anyone that
>> you want to contact (and everyone along the way) must be "up".
> 
> That was the original point of ARPANET then EPSS and later the internet. 
> Packet switching means that any route to the destination at all will do.
> 
> I'm told that my fibre feed is passive optical connectors and splices 
> all the way back the regional exchange about 12 miles away. My local 
> exchange was about 5 miles away and a so-called exchange only direct 
> line (which meant that ADSL 2+ was the limit for me prior to FTTP).
>>
>>> My mobile phone worked all the day, I could send and receive whatsapp 
>>> messages.
>>
>> Are those processed "locally"?
> 
> Mobile phone masts here typically have a lifetime of about 8-40 hours 
> after power failure depending on how heavily they are being used. 
> Backhaul presumably is optical or microwave.
> 
> Most powercuts tend to be fairly local round here - a regional powercut 
> or a national one requires something truly catastrophic to happen.
> 
> I can only recall one UK powercut in that league in the past half 
> century (August 9 2019). Of course it directly affected the densely 
> populated affluent regions London and the South East. Therefore it was 
> much more newsworthy than if it had affected the remote Scottish 
> Highlands where weather induced powercuts are quite common.
> 
> The recent big one at Heathrow didn't affect all that many people 
> although it did take down the whole airport which shows remarkably bad 
> contingency planning - it should have had supply redundancy and the 
> ability to switchover to it before the diesel generators ran out of 
> fuel. Heads should roll over them having to shut down completely.

Barajas and probably all main airports remained working here, but the 
problem was getting to them. The Metro to Barajas was OOS, so it meant 
bus or taxi; and there were terrible traffic jams because signalling was 
OOS. Even the air crews had trouble arriving at the airports.


> 
>>> I have a small computer doing server things, and it tried to email me 
>>> as soon as the UPS said it was running on battery. That email did not 
>>> reach me till the power came back; this could be that the fibre went 
>>> OOS, or that the UPS at my router went down instantly. I do not know.
>>
>> Doesn't your UPS deliver log messages (to a syslog server or data
>> dumps to an FTP service)?
>>
>> I have each of mine configured to give me summaries of power consumption
>> and line conditions each minute.  And, use a syslogd on that same server.
> 
> I only log external power failures. Kitchen appliance clocks all reset 
> when we lose power for more than a couple of seconds.
> 
>>> I'm considering replacing the UPS at my router. Some UPS "destroy" 
>>> the battery too fast.
>>
>> Yes.  Rather than spend time investigating it, I've taken the approach
>> of just rescuing batteries to replace those that have been "cooked".
> 
> That is a feature of UPS design that specsmanship to get the longest run 
> time for the sales datasheet means that they cook their batteries. I 
> have seen them swell to the point of bursting inside a UPS. Thick rubber 
> gloves needed to remove the remains. Support metalwork was a real 
> corroded rusty mess but electronics above it remained OK.

That level of "not working" has not happened to me. Maybe because some 
power failure makes me find out that the battery is dead.

>>
>> I suspect the problem (rationalized by the manufacturers) is trying to
>> bring the battery back to full charge ASAP -- as well as keeping the
>> highest state of charge that the battery can support.
> 
> Which taken to extremes is very bad for battery life.
> 
>> Charging at a slower rate and to a lower float voltage would
>> compromise the UPS's availability -- but provide less maintenance costs
>> (of course, the manufacturer wants to sell you batteries, so you
>> can see where their priorities will lie!)
> 
> They really think I'm going to buy their vastly overpriced replacements?

I don't.

But last battery I replaced was not even two years old, rather 5 months 
short. I replaced it just in time to serve during the Gran Apagón.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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Thread

Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-29 13:24 +0100
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 00:42 +1000
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-29 16:07 +0100
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:52 -0700
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-29 20:32 +0100
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 13:43 -0700
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-29 17:07 -0700
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 17:38 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-30 09:31 +0100
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:45 +0100
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-30 04:29 -0700
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-30 09:20 +0100
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-30 02:57 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 10:54 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-01 11:28 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 03:55 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-01 06:56 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2025-05-01 19:15 +0000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 15:29 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 08:03 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 18:25 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 13:49 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 03:51 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:28 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 15:16 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:54 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:37 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-02 12:01 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2025-05-02 00:35 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 16:38 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:56 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:40 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:20 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-02 16:05 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2025-05-02 14:59 +0300
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain KevinJ93 <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> - 2025-04-30 11:18 -0700
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain KevinJ93 <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> - 2025-05-03 11:20 -0700
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 16:34 +1000
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2025-05-01 10:36 +1000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-30 19:20 -0700
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 11:04 +0100
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-01 12:47 +0200
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 21:50 +0000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-01 11:24 +0100
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-01 13:06 +0200
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain KevinJ93 <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> - 2025-05-01 11:37 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-02 07:45 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-03 00:53 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-02 17:49 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-02 16:20 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-03 14:01 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2025-05-03 16:11 +1000
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2025-05-02 22:50 +1000
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-02 07:43 -0700
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-03 00:56 +1000
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-02 17:49 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-02 13:41 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-02 15:40 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-03 14:19 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-03 14:10 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-08 00:59 +0000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Glen Walpert <nospam@null.void> - 2025-05-01 15:21 +0000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 02:34 +0200
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk> - 2025-04-29 17:48 +0200
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 09:03 -0700
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 16:49 +1000
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 16:41 +1000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-04-30 10:59 +0100
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:41 +0200
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-04-30 12:08 +0100
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain KevinJ93 <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> - 2025-04-30 11:25 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-04-30 22:34 +0200
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 21:53 +1000
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-04-30 16:05 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-09 04:33 +1000
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2025-04-30 14:11 +0200
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:42 +0200
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-30 11:47 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 15:07 +1000
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:48 +0200
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 23:37 +1000
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-01 17:21 +0100
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-02 03:41 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-02 11:03 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-02 21:50 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 14:24 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-03 08:12 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-04 03:20 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-03 19:23 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-03 11:30 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-03 21:17 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-03 13:39 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-05 20:36 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-04 15:57 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:34 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-04 13:20 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:55 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-04 19:50 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-05 17:39 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:47 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:45 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-05 06:58 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-05 17:35 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-06 04:47 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-05 20:04 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-06 16:32 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-06 08:13 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-08 02:30 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-07 17:48 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-08 15:54 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-05 12:27 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:35 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-05 19:40 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-06 10:25 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 12:26 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-06 13:27 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 18:56 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-06 14:52 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 13:04 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-07 05:09 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 14:30 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-07 06:17 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:55 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 22:04 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-07 16:01 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-08 11:57 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 04:49 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-08 13:43 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:05 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-08 13:43 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-08 15:08 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-08 17:19 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-08 20:39 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-09 09:23 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 13:20 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain KevinJ93 <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> - 2025-05-08 12:51 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:18 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-09 09:21 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 03:38 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 13:24 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 05:52 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-09 07:55 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-09 07:35 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 15:05 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:32 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:07 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:32 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-10 03:19 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 19:37 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-10 16:04 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-10 09:13 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 15:04 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-11 06:46 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 21:25 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-12 11:07 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:54 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:57 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:18 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-09 12:22 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 23:28 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-10 08:03 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-10 16:05 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-10 14:47 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Glen Walpert <nospam@null.void> - 2025-05-09 22:50 +0000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:41 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-10 03:26 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 20:52 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 15:21 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:44 +0200
                UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 15:41 +0200
                Re: UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-08 15:18 +0100
                Re: UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:23 +0200
                Re: UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 17:13 -0700
                Re: UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:29 +0200
                Re: UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 05:21 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 15:38 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:29 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 04:05 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:20 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:44 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 14:23 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:31 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-05 18:49 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 02:18 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-06 10:42 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-05 17:37 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-05 19:47 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 12:32 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-04 15:42 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 23:55 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-03 16:53 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 02:27 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-04 09:49 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-04 17:23 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-05 02:24 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 19:34 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-04 08:35 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 19:36 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-04 13:24 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-04 16:00 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-04 10:12 +0100
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:50 +0200
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-02 11:17 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:24 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-02 22:58 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-02 16:10 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 14:37 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-03 10:47 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 23:59 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-03 15:15 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 02:29 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-03 21:49 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-04 16:15 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:41 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-04 10:23 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-04 16:38 +0100
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk> - 2025-04-30 22:16 +0200
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 15:18 +1000
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 07:57 -0700
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain bitrex <user@example.net> - 2025-04-29 11:27 -0400
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 08:59 -0700
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 17:05 +1000
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-30 11:41 +0100
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 22:37 +1000
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-04-30 21:50 +0800
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 01:05 +1000
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-30 11:51 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 15:33 +1000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> - 2025-05-09 02:16 -0400
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-09 21:25 +1000
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 16:53 +1000
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain brian <nospam@b-howie.co.uk> - 2025-04-29 17:24 +0100
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain brian <nospam@b-howie.co.uk> - 2025-04-30 07:09 +0100
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 21:13 +0200
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 12:26 -0700
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 21:51 +0200
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 13:39 -0700
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain bitrex <user@example.net> - 2025-04-29 17:05 -0400
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 15:41 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain bitrex <user@example.net> - 2025-04-29 18:55 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 17:00 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 17:32 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:54 +0200
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain bitrex <user@example.net> - 2025-04-29 17:07 -0400
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 17:19 +1000
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-29 19:57 -0700
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:33 +0200
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-30 19:55 +0100
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-30 12:33 -0700
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-30 16:00 -0700
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:00 +0200
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-04-30 17:28 -0400
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 15:24 +1000
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 10:27 +0100
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-01 07:06 -0700
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 15:48 +0100
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-01 08:40 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-05 02:10 +1000
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-02 03:17 +1000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-01 11:38 -0400
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-02 03:32 +1000
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:12 +0200
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-01 19:38 -0400
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-02 18:04 +1000
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 22:19 +0000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-01 19:21 -0400
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-30 09:08 -0700
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 15:29 +1000
  Re: Gran Apagón - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:13 +0200
    Re: Gran Apagón - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-02 11:28 +0100
      Re: Gran Apagón - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:30 +0200
        Re: Gran Apagón - Electricity (not) in Spain Miguel Gimenez <me@privacy.net> - 2025-05-08 14:31 +0200
          Re: Gran Apagón - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 15:45 +0200
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> - 2025-05-09 02:20 -0400
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-09 21:35 +1000

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