Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.electronics.design > #733147

Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain

From Glen Walpert <nospam@null.void>
Subject Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
References (10 earlier) <vvi2n4$1n4pj$1@dont-email.me> <p4muelx89p.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <vvj9co$265vt$1@dont-email.me> <de81flxqff.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <ahas1kt6jg338ie9g9od4edt15gea1mjmu@4ax.com>
Message-ID <cFvTP.36113$eAtc.30115@fx05.iad> (permalink)
Date 2025-05-09 22:50 +0000

Show all headers | View raw

On Fri, 09 May 2025 12:22:02 -0400, Joe Gwinn wrote:

> On Fri, 9 May 2025 14:18:53 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> 
>>On 2025-05-08 23:57, Don Y wrote:
>>>>> That is a feature of UPS design that specsmanship to get the longest
>>>>> run time for the sales datasheet means that they cook their
>>>>> batteries. I have seen them swell to the point of bursting inside a
>>>>> UPS. Thick rubber gloves needed to remove the remains. Support
>>>>> metalwork was a real corroded rusty mess but electronics above it
>>>>> remained OK.
>>>>
>>>> That level of "not working" has not happened to me. Maybe because
>>>> some power failure makes me find out that the battery is dead.
>>> 
>>> I've rescued a fair number of UPSs over the years.  In probably 80% of
>>> them, the batteries have swollen to the point where removing the
>>> battery or battery PACK is difficult.  This is especially true of the
>>> "better" UPSs (sine output, 48V battery, metal fabrication) where
>>> there is little "give" in the mechanical design.  Often one has to
>>> disassemble the UPS to see where one can gain leverage on the battery
>>> pack to force it from the case.
>>> 
>>>>> They really think I'm going to buy their vastly overpriced
>>>>> replacements?
>>>>
>>>> I don't.
>>>>
>>>> But last battery I replaced was not even two years old, rather 5
>>>> months short. I replaced it just in time to serve during the Gran
>>>> Apagón.
>>> 
>>> That's the problem; you don't KNOW how long a particular battery will
>>> last,
>>> even in an environment where it is never called on for backup!
>>> 
>>> Instead, you are forced into a "reactive" mode -- waiting for
>>> something to tell you you're screwed and need a replacement, now!
>>> 
>>> My largest UPS uses 50 pound batteries (8 of them).
>>
>>Are they 12 volts each, or just one cell?
>>
>>On phone exchanges I saw huge batteries, actually individual cells
>>connected in series. 48 volts nominally, so 24 cells. I don't think they
>>were gel types, they needed adding water now and then.
> 
> The were most likely KS-20472 BELLCELL lead-acid battery cells,
> originally made by Western Electric, or European equivalent.  These are
> 2.2 volts per cell.
> 
> .<https://library.industrialsolutions.abb.com/publibrary/checkout/
107852477?TNR=Installation%20and%20Instruction%7C107852477%7CPDF>
> 
> Joe

Back in the mid 80's I read a review of lead acid battery manufacturing 
technology which listed the Western Electric round cell design as the most 
reliable by far, with some batteries testing at higher capacity after 20 
years in backup service than when new - benign environment and low cycles 
noted - and average service life well over 10 years.  The high reliability 
is mostly due to the horizontal stack of symmetrical round plates which 
can expand and contract due to charge/discharge with very low stress.  The 
other key is pure lead bus and plate grids made possible by the low stress 
design - the lead-antimony alloy used in vertical plate batteries for 
strength and low cost (recycled lead) corrodes much more rapidly.

Reminds me of one of the 2 major east coast blackouts, where the 
transmission line lost due to an incorrect relay setting would have been a 
minor incident except for the failure of an automatic switch to transfer 
to the available and adequate alternate source due to long dead backup 
batteries.

Glen

Back to sci.electronics.design | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar

Thread

Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-29 13:24 +0100
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 00:42 +1000
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-29 16:07 +0100
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:52 -0700
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-29 20:32 +0100
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 13:43 -0700
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-29 17:07 -0700
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 17:38 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-30 09:31 +0100
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:45 +0100
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-30 04:29 -0700
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-30 09:20 +0100
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-30 02:57 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 10:54 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-01 11:28 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 03:55 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-01 06:56 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2025-05-01 19:15 +0000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 15:29 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 08:03 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 18:25 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 13:49 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 03:51 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:28 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 15:16 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:54 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:37 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-02 12:01 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2025-05-02 00:35 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 16:38 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:56 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:40 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:20 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-02 16:05 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2025-05-02 14:59 +0300
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain KevinJ93 <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> - 2025-04-30 11:18 -0700
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain KevinJ93 <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> - 2025-05-03 11:20 -0700
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 16:34 +1000
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2025-05-01 10:36 +1000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-30 19:20 -0700
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 11:04 +0100
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-01 12:47 +0200
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 21:50 +0000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-01 11:24 +0100
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-01 13:06 +0200
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain KevinJ93 <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> - 2025-05-01 11:37 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-02 07:45 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-03 00:53 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-02 17:49 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-02 16:20 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-03 14:01 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2025-05-03 16:11 +1000
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2025-05-02 22:50 +1000
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-02 07:43 -0700
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-03 00:56 +1000
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-02 17:49 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-02 13:41 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-02 15:40 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-03 14:19 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-03 14:10 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-08 00:59 +0000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Glen Walpert <nospam@null.void> - 2025-05-01 15:21 +0000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 02:34 +0200
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk> - 2025-04-29 17:48 +0200
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 09:03 -0700
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 16:49 +1000
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 16:41 +1000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-04-30 10:59 +0100
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:41 +0200
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-04-30 12:08 +0100
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain KevinJ93 <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> - 2025-04-30 11:25 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-04-30 22:34 +0200
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 21:53 +1000
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-04-30 16:05 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-09 04:33 +1000
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2025-04-30 14:11 +0200
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:42 +0200
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-30 11:47 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 15:07 +1000
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:48 +0200
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 23:37 +1000
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-01 17:21 +0100
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-02 03:41 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-02 11:03 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-02 21:50 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 14:24 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-03 08:12 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-04 03:20 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-03 19:23 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-03 11:30 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-03 21:17 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-03 13:39 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-05 20:36 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-04 15:57 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:34 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-04 13:20 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:55 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-04 19:50 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-05 17:39 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:47 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:45 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-05 06:58 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-05 17:35 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-06 04:47 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-05 20:04 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-06 16:32 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-06 08:13 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-08 02:30 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-07 17:48 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-08 15:54 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-05 12:27 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:35 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-05 19:40 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-06 10:25 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 12:26 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-06 13:27 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 18:56 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-06 14:52 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 13:04 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-07 05:09 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 14:30 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-07 06:17 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:55 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 22:04 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-07 16:01 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-08 11:57 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 04:49 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-08 13:43 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:05 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-08 13:43 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-08 15:08 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-08 17:19 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-08 20:39 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-09 09:23 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 13:20 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain KevinJ93 <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> - 2025-05-08 12:51 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:18 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-09 09:21 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 03:38 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 13:24 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 05:52 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-09 07:55 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-09 07:35 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 15:05 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:32 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:07 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:32 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-10 03:19 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 19:37 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-10 16:04 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-10 09:13 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 15:04 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-11 06:46 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 21:25 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-12 11:07 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:54 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:57 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:18 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-09 12:22 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 23:28 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-10 08:03 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-10 16:05 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-10 14:47 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Glen Walpert <nospam@null.void> - 2025-05-09 22:50 +0000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:41 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-10 03:26 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 20:52 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 15:21 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:44 +0200
                UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 15:41 +0200
                Re: UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-08 15:18 +0100
                Re: UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:23 +0200
                Re: UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 17:13 -0700
                Re: UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:29 +0200
                Re: UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 05:21 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 15:38 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:29 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 04:05 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:20 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:44 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 14:23 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:31 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-05 18:49 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 02:18 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-06 10:42 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-05 17:37 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-05 19:47 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 12:32 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-04 15:42 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 23:55 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-03 16:53 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 02:27 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-04 09:49 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-04 17:23 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-05 02:24 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 19:34 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-04 08:35 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 19:36 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-04 13:24 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-04 16:00 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-04 10:12 +0100
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:50 +0200
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-02 11:17 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:24 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-02 22:58 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-02 16:10 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 14:37 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-03 10:47 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 23:59 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-03 15:15 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 02:29 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-03 21:49 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-04 16:15 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:41 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-04 10:23 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-04 16:38 +0100
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk> - 2025-04-30 22:16 +0200
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 15:18 +1000
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 07:57 -0700
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain bitrex <user@example.net> - 2025-04-29 11:27 -0400
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 08:59 -0700
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 17:05 +1000
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-30 11:41 +0100
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 22:37 +1000
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-04-30 21:50 +0800
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 01:05 +1000
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-30 11:51 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 15:33 +1000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> - 2025-05-09 02:16 -0400
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-09 21:25 +1000
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 16:53 +1000
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain brian <nospam@b-howie.co.uk> - 2025-04-29 17:24 +0100
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain brian <nospam@b-howie.co.uk> - 2025-04-30 07:09 +0100
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 21:13 +0200
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 12:26 -0700
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 21:51 +0200
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 13:39 -0700
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain bitrex <user@example.net> - 2025-04-29 17:05 -0400
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 15:41 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain bitrex <user@example.net> - 2025-04-29 18:55 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 17:00 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 17:32 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:54 +0200
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain bitrex <user@example.net> - 2025-04-29 17:07 -0400
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 17:19 +1000
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-29 19:57 -0700
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:33 +0200
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-30 19:55 +0100
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-30 12:33 -0700
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-30 16:00 -0700
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:00 +0200
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-04-30 17:28 -0400
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 15:24 +1000
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 10:27 +0100
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-01 07:06 -0700
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 15:48 +0100
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-01 08:40 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-05 02:10 +1000
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-02 03:17 +1000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-01 11:38 -0400
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-02 03:32 +1000
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:12 +0200
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-01 19:38 -0400
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-02 18:04 +1000
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 22:19 +0000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-01 19:21 -0400
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-30 09:08 -0700
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 15:29 +1000
  Re: Gran Apagón - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:13 +0200
    Re: Gran Apagón - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-02 11:28 +0100
      Re: Gran Apagón - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:30 +0200
        Re: Gran Apagón - Electricity (not) in Spain Miguel Gimenez <me@privacy.net> - 2025-05-08 14:31 +0200
          Re: Gran Apagón - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 15:45 +0200
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> - 2025-05-09 02:20 -0400
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-09 21:35 +1000

csiph-web